Racist groups vs Free Speech, i've converted...

[iceberg]

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

Also, somebody wearing a shirt is very different than a statue or monument in a public square. You don't see statues of Hitler or his generals or a park named Nazi park in Germany. Doesn't that just make sense?

It's the same angst that is created, the same butt hurt. The difference I don't feel the need to force my butt hurt on everyone else by banning Che shirts.

And while there are no Hitler memorials, there are monuments to German Soldiers who fell during the war.

German War Memorials

You don't see the difference between the soldiers and the generals/leaders? Come on Marty, think on this one for a few minutes.

you can't take down what someone else values simply because you have different values. all this bullshit started with "we must remove the confed flag from gov grounds!!!"

the left promised that's all they wanted. the right said bullshit.

who was right now?

germany has a holocaust museum. we should at least preserve our past, good and bad, so we know who we are and where we came from. we can't erase the things we don't like or sooner or later none of us will be here.

I'm fine with preserving our past. Put the confederate statues into museums where there can be education and context around them. It really doesn't make logical sense to have so many statues of confederate generals around our communities. Why are we celebrating and glorifying these people in public areas?

She we erect a bin laden statue by the twin towers to remind people of history?

maybe not.

but it makes less sense to force people into how to think and feel.

i've never known that to work well in a situation like this.

the bin laden comment is just stupid, sorry.

 

[Slade3200]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

I disagree, that might be the short term play that they will attempt to capitalize on but in the long term it is removing a source of power and supremacy that exists. Many of those statues were constructed during the Jim Crow era as a check to the blacks that the values of the confederacy still exist. Like I said in the OP whether you take them down or minimize them with "counter" statues of civil rights leaders, I think either is a smart move to combat the hate.

The only power being provided is to the white power idiots, giving them a cause and a platform. Most of these were built in the early 1900's, well after the South "won" via plessey. What most of them are related to is the dying off of the Civil War Veterans, most of whom would have been in their 60's-80's between 1900 and 1920, when a lot of these monuments went up. Even the ones that went up in the 60's can be related to the 100th anniversaries of the start and the end of the Civil War

Why not just put up more memorials to Civil Rights leaders and let people see them all? .

Really?? You don't think that Jim Crow had anything to do with it?

It probably had some part to do with it. If you go to the battle of Liberty Square memorial THAT one had everything to do with it. But how much are memorials to the rank and file rebel Soldiers have to do with Jim Crow vs; remembering them as they were dying off of old age?

The big Arch in Grand Army Plaza was finished in 1892, a bit earlier but around the same time period.

Soldiers' and Sailors' Arch - Wikipedia

Thats why each one should be evaluated and decided by the community whether it stands for the things they want represented. History, motive, content are all relevant for discussion. But if the city decides to take them down then why would you object to it. don't they have that right?

 

[Slade3200]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

^^^ The American Taliban alive and well. Mind your own area and leave others alone with their own historical monuments. If the people in those areas desire to remove those monuments or not use their flags let them do it and if in public areas they can do it by vote. If not you are no better than a Taliban, Nazi or Islamist asshole yourself.

I never said anything different than that... you should slow down before you jump on the judgements. Taliban? Give me a break

 

[Slade3200]

Also, somebody wearing a shirt is very different than a statue or monument in a public square. You don't see statues of Hitler or his generals or a park named Nazi park in Germany. Doesn't that just make sense?

It's the same angst that is created, the same butt hurt. The difference I don't feel the need to force my butt hurt on everyone else by banning Che shirts.

And while there are no Hitler memorials, there are monuments to German Soldiers who fell during the war.

German War Memorials

You don't see the difference between the soldiers and the generals/leaders? Come on Marty, think on this one for a few minutes.

you can't take down what someone else values simply because you have different values. all this bullshit started with "we must remove the confed flag from gov grounds!!!"

the left promised that's all they wanted. the right said bullshit.

who was right now?

germany has a holocaust museum. we should at least preserve our past, good and bad, so we know who we are and where we came from. we can't erase the things we don't like or sooner or later none of us will be here.

I'm fine with preserving our past. Put the confederate statues into museums where there can be education and context around them. It really doesn't make logical sense to have so many statues of confederate generals around our communities. Why are we celebrating and glorifying these people in public areas?

She we erect a bin laden statue by the twin towers to remind people of history?

maybe not.

but it makes less sense to force people into how to think and feel.

i've never known that to work well in a situation like this.

the bin laden comment is just stupid, sorry.

Why is the bin laden comment stupid and why is the hitler analogy not relevant?

 

[WEATHER53]

Colonial style homes, especially ones with front pillars, need to be torn down as they are reminiscent of our plantation past
The people residing in them need to get their social conscience in gear or be forced to do so

 

[Slade3200]

Colonial style homes, especially ones with front pillars, need to be torn down as they are reminiscent of our plantation past
The people residing in them need to get their social conscience in gear or be forced to do so

Yeah, right. And there were trees and lynchings during the slavery days so we should chop down all trees. Can we get back to reality now?

 

[iceberg]

It's the same angst that is created, the same butt hurt. The difference I don't feel the need to force my butt hurt on everyone else by banning Che shirts.

And while there are no Hitler memorials, there are monuments to German Soldiers who fell during the war.

German War Memorials

You don't see the difference between the soldiers and the generals/leaders? Come on Marty, think on this one for a few minutes.

you can't take down what someone else values simply because you have different values. all this bullshit started with "we must remove the confed flag from gov grounds!!!"

the left promised that's all they wanted. the right said bullshit.

who was right now?

germany has a holocaust museum. we should at least preserve our past, good and bad, so we know who we are and where we came from. we can't erase the things we don't like or sooner or later none of us will be here.

I'm fine with preserving our past. Put the confederate statues into museums where there can be education and context around them. It really doesn't make logical sense to have so many statues of confederate generals around our communities. Why are we celebrating and glorifying these people in public areas?

She we erect a bin laden statue by the twin towers to remind people of history?

maybe not.

but it makes less sense to force people into how to think and feel.

i've never known that to work well in a situation like this.

the bin laden comment is just stupid, sorry.

Why is the bin laden comment stupid and why is the hitler analogy not relevant?

because we don't put people who attack us up in a memorial. we never have. the comment itself is more snark than something even close to being considered.

and the hitler / nazi comparisons are done for effect, not reality. while you can point to some groups out there who are in fact defined by those words, those words however are applied to anyone these days who defend the right over the group and do not want those rights taken away in a mob mentality form of "justice"

we lose far more than we gain when we do that.

 

[WEATHER53]

Any tree that has a lynching limb should be pruned. It's insensitive to have to see one and can send the feelings feebles into a state of offededness which in turn leads to "excusable" physical violence

 

[RodISHI]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

^^^ The American Taliban alive and well. Mind your own area and leave others alone with their own historical monuments. If the people in those areas desire to remove those monuments or not use their flags let them do it and if in public areas they can do it by vote. If not you are no better than a Taliban, Nazi or Islamist asshole yourself.

I never said anything different than that... you should slow down before you jump on the judgements. Taliban? Give me a break

These are not all your words? "Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views."

 

[Crixus]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

I disagree, that might be the short term play that they will attempt to capitalize on but in the long term it is removing a source of power and supremacy that exists. Many of those statues were constructed during the Jim Crow era as a check to the blacks that the values of the confederacy still exist. Like I said in the OP whether you take them down or minimize them with "counter" statues of civil rights leaders, I think either is a smart move to combat the hate.

The only power being provided is to the white power idiots, giving them a cause and a platform. Most of these were built in the early 1900's, well after the South "won" via plessey. What most of them are related to is the dying off of the Civil War Veterans, most of whom would have been in their 60's-80's between 1900 and 1920, when a lot of these monuments went up. Even the ones that went up in the 60's can be related to the 100th anniversaries of the start and the end of the Civil War

Why not just put up more memorials to Civil Rights leaders and let people see them all? .

Really?? You don't think that Jim Crow had anything to do with it?

Well, why would it? Far as I'm concerned confederate soldiers were just guys like you and me. If we had been called to "defend our country" we would have done it. I see the statues much the sameAs the Vietnam memorial. Matter of fact, I am 100% on bored with moving the statues. Take them to a place like Gettysburg.

 

[blackhawk]

We don't have freedom of speech to protect speech that is popular and everyone agrees with that needs no protection it's there to make sure all speech even that we don't like has the right to be heard. I hear lots of stuff from groups I don't like and agree with but I would never call for their right of free speech to be taken away as has been said many times about many things once you start down that road where does it end.

 

[Slade3200]

You don't see the difference between the soldiers and the generals/leaders? Come on Marty, think on this one for a few minutes.

you can't take down what someone else values simply because you have different values. all this bullshit started with "we must remove the confed flag from gov grounds!!!"

the left promised that's all they wanted. the right said bullshit.

who was right now?

germany has a holocaust museum. we should at least preserve our past, good and bad, so we know who we are and where we came from. we can't erase the things we don't like or sooner or later none of us will be here.

I'm fine with preserving our past. Put the confederate statues into museums where there can be education and context around them. It really doesn't make logical sense to have so many statues of confederate generals around our communities. Why are we celebrating and glorifying these people in public areas?

She we erect a bin laden statue by the twin towers to remind people of history?

maybe not.

but it makes less sense to force people into how to think and feel.

i've never known that to work well in a situation like this.

the bin laden comment is just stupid, sorry.

Why is the bin laden comment stupid and why is the hitler analogy not relevant?

because we don't put people who attack us up in a memorial. we never have. the comment itself is more snark than something even close to being considered.

and the hitler / nazi comparisons are done for effect, not reality. while you can point to some groups out there who are in fact defined by those words, those words however are applied to anyone these days who defend the right over the group and do not want those rights taken away in a mob mentality form of "justice"

we lose far more than we gain when we do that.

"We don't put people who attack us up in a memorial"... what do you think Stonewall Jackson, Robert E Lee and crew did during the civil war?

 

[bripat9643]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

You racist!

 

[Slade3200]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

^^^ The American Taliban alive and well. Mind your own area and leave others alone with their own historical monuments. If the people in those areas desire to remove those monuments or not use their flags let them do it and if in public areas they can do it by vote. If not you are no better than a Taliban, Nazi or Islamist asshole yourself.

I never said anything different than that... you should slow down before you jump on the judgements. Taliban? Give me a break

These are not all your words? "Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views."

Yes those are my words, so what?? I'm not talking about destroying statues in an anarchist way. We have a legal and legitimate way of doing it through petitions and public forums and city council meetings. Get loud and get active and rally support and either put those statues in a museum or melt them down or build counter statues. Its a better method to fight against the Nazis and KKK than throwing piss at them.

 

[bripat9643]

you can't take down what someone else values simply because you have different values. all this bullshit started with "we must remove the confed flag from gov grounds!!!"

the left promised that's all they wanted. the right said bullshit.

who was right now?

germany has a holocaust museum. we should at least preserve our past, good and bad, so we know who we are and where we came from. we can't erase the things we don't like or sooner or later none of us will be here.

I'm fine with preserving our past. Put the confederate statues into museums where there can be education and context around them. It really doesn't make logical sense to have so many statues of confederate generals around our communities. Why are we celebrating and glorifying these people in public areas?

She we erect a bin laden statue by the twin towers to remind people of history?

maybe not.

but it makes less sense to force people into how to think and feel.

i've never known that to work well in a situation like this.

the bin laden comment is just stupid, sorry.

Why is the bin laden comment stupid and why is the hitler analogy not relevant?

because we don't put people who attack us up in a memorial. we never have. the comment itself is more snark than something even close to being considered.

and the hitler / nazi comparisons are done for effect, not reality. while you can point to some groups out there who are in fact defined by those words, those words however are applied to anyone these days who defend the right over the group and do not want those rights taken away in a mob mentality form of "justice"

we lose far more than we gain when we do that.

"We don't put people who attack us up in a memorial"... what do you think Stonewall Jackson, Robert E Lee and crew did during the civil war?

They didn't attack us. Lincoln invaded the Confederacy. That's the fact you can't seem to get through your skull.

 

[Slade3200]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

I disagree, that might be the short term play that they will attempt to capitalize on but in the long term it is removing a source of power and supremacy that exists. Many of those statues were constructed during the Jim Crow era as a check to the blacks that the values of the confederacy still exist. Like I said in the OP whether you take them down or minimize them with "counter" statues of civil rights leaders, I think either is a smart move to combat the hate.

The only power being provided is to the white power idiots, giving them a cause and a platform. Most of these were built in the early 1900's, well after the South "won" via plessey. What most of them are related to is the dying off of the Civil War Veterans, most of whom would have been in their 60's-80's between 1900 and 1920, when a lot of these monuments went up. Even the ones that went up in the 60's can be related to the 100th anniversaries of the start and the end of the Civil War

Why not just put up more memorials to Civil Rights leaders and let people see them all? .

Really?? You don't think that Jim Crow had anything to do with it?

Well, why would it? Far as I'm concerned confederate soldiers were just guys like you and me. If we had been called to "defend our country" we would have done it. I see the statues much the sameAs the Vietnam memorial. Matter of fact, I am 100% on bored with moving the statues. Take them to a place like Gettysburg.

The confederate generals and soldiers took arms AGAINST our country. They were not fighters for our country. It was Treason and an act of rebellion to succeed from the union. It was centered around the issue of slavery which they did not want to give up. These were not heros... They were racist traitors.

 

[Slade3200]

I'm fine with preserving our past. Put the confederate statues into museums where there can be education and context around them. It really doesn't make logical sense to have so many statues of confederate generals around our communities. Why are we celebrating and glorifying these people in public areas?

She we erect a bin laden statue by the twin towers to remind people of history?

maybe not.

but it makes less sense to force people into how to think and feel.

i've never known that to work well in a situation like this.

the bin laden comment is just stupid, sorry.

Why is the bin laden comment stupid and why is the hitler analogy not relevant?

because we don't put people who attack us up in a memorial. we never have. the comment itself is more snark than something even close to being considered.

and the hitler / nazi comparisons are done for effect, not reality. while you can point to some groups out there who are in fact defined by those words, those words however are applied to anyone these days who defend the right over the group and do not want those rights taken away in a mob mentality form of "justice"

we lose far more than we gain when we do that.

"We don't put people who attack us up in a memorial"... what do you think Stonewall Jackson, Robert E Lee and crew did during the civil war?

They didn't attack us. Lincoln invaded the Confederacy. That's the fact you can't seem to get through your skull.

You're defending the confederacy now?! Unbelievable... That damn Lincoln, what a traitor.

 

[bripat9643]

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

Also, somebody wearing a shirt is very different than a statue or monument in a public square. You don't see statues of Hitler or his generals or a park named Nazi park in Germany. Doesn't that just make sense?

It's the same angst that is created, the same butt hurt. The difference I don't feel the need to force my butt hurt on everyone else by banning Che shirts.

And while there are no Hitler memorials, there are monuments to German Soldiers who fell during the war.

German War Memorials

You don't see the difference between the soldiers and the generals/leaders? Come on Marty, think on this one for a few minutes.

you can't take down what someone else values simply because you have different values. all this bullshit started with "we must remove the confed flag from gov grounds!!!"

the left promised that's all they wanted. the right said bullshit.

who was right now?

germany has a holocaust museum. we should at least preserve our past, good and bad, so we know who we are and where we came from. we can't erase the things we don't like or sooner or later none of us will be here.

I'm fine with preserving our past. Put the confederate statues into museums where there can be education and context around them. It really doesn't make logical sense to have so many statues of confederate generals around our communities. Why are we celebrating and glorifying these people in public areas?

Should we erect a bin laden statue by the twin towers to remind people of history?

If you ask me, the statues that should go in the museums are the ones of the war criminals Lincoln, Grant and Sherman. They slaughtered 850,000 Americans.

 

[bripat9643]

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

I disagree, that might be the short term play that they will attempt to capitalize on but in the long term it is removing a source of power and supremacy that exists. Many of those statues were constructed during the Jim Crow era as a check to the blacks that the values of the confederacy still exist. Like I said in the OP whether you take them down or minimize them with "counter" statues of civil rights leaders, I think either is a smart move to combat the hate.

The only power being provided is to the white power idiots, giving them a cause and a platform. Most of these were built in the early 1900's, well after the South "won" via plessey. What most of them are related to is the dying off of the Civil War Veterans, most of whom would have been in their 60's-80's between 1900 and 1920, when a lot of these monuments went up. Even the ones that went up in the 60's can be related to the 100th anniversaries of the start and the end of the Civil War

Why not just put up more memorials to Civil Rights leaders and let people see them all? .

Really?? You don't think that Jim Crow had anything to do with it?

Well, why would it? Far as I'm concerned confederate soldiers were just guys like you and me. If we had been called to "defend our country" we would have done it. I see the statues much the sameAs the Vietnam memorial. Matter of fact, I am 100% on bored with moving the statues. Take them to a place like Gettysburg.

The confederate generals and soldiers took arms AGAINST our country. They were not fighters for our country. It was Treason and an act of rebellion to succeed from the union. It was centered around the issue of slavery which they did not want to give up. These were not heros... They were racist traitors.

Wrong. The did nothing but defend their country. Lincoln is the one who took up arms against states of the union. What he did fits the official definition of treason.

Slavery was the law of the land at the time. If they didn't like it, tough. They should have passed a Constitutional amendment to end it.

 

[Slade3200]

Also, somebody wearing a shirt is very different than a statue or monument in a public square. You don't see statues of Hitler or his generals or a park named Nazi park in Germany. Doesn't that just make sense?

It's the same angst that is created, the same butt hurt. The difference I don't feel the need to force my butt hurt on everyone else by banning Che shirts.

And while there are no Hitler memorials, there are monuments to German Soldiers who fell during the war.

German War Memorials

You don't see the difference between the soldiers and the generals/leaders? Come on Marty, think on this one for a few minutes.

you can't take down what someone else values simply because you have different values. all this bullshit started with "we must remove the confed flag from gov grounds!!!"

the left promised that's all they wanted. the right said bullshit.

who was right now?

germany has a holocaust museum. we should at least preserve our past, good and bad, so we know who we are and where we came from. we can't erase the things we don't like or sooner or later none of us will be here.

I'm fine with preserving our past. Put the confederate statues into museums where there can be education and context around them. It really doesn't make logical sense to have so many statues of confederate generals around our communities. Why are we celebrating and glorifying these people in public areas?

Should we erect a bin laden statue by the twin towers to remind people of history?

If you ask me, the statues that should go in the museums are the ones of the war criminals Lincoln, Grant and Sherman. They slaughtered 850,000 Americans.

Good thing nobody is asking you