Racist groups vs Free Speech, i've converted...

[theHawk]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

The progressive left wouldn't get any news coverage if they just ignored the neo-Nazis. They need a "moral victory" so bad, since all their attempts at bringing President Trump and the country down have failed.

These globalists need to stir up fear and hatred in order to recruit their foot soldiers- "Antifa". These communist thugs could care less about Constitutional rights, their Agenda is the number one priority. Right now undermining the legitimacy of the US government is at the top of their list (because they lost the election).

It's baffling that there are some "liberals" out there who actually think the far left want peace and decency.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

The reason to remove the statues is to respect the rule of law. It's the same reason to leave them in place.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

^^^ The American Taliban alive and well. Mind your own area and leave others alone with their own historical monuments. If the people in those areas desire to remove those monuments or not use their flags let them do it and if in public areas they can do it by vote. If not you are no better than a Taliban, Nazi or Islamist asshole yourself.

I never said anything different than that... you should slow down before you jump on the judgements. Taliban? Give me a break

These are not all your words? "Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views."

Yes those are my words, so what?? I'm not talking about destroying statues in an anarchist way. We have a legal and legitimate way of doing it through petitions and public forums and city council meetings. Get loud and get active and rally support and either put those statues in a museum or melt them down or build counter statues. Its a better method to fight against the Nazis and KKK than throwing piss at them.

Those statutes and flags belong to the people and their communities. If you don't live there and are not a member of that community what is it to you? You are sounding more and more like a fascist who wants to force government upon states.

The confederate generals and soldiers took arms AGAINST our country. They were not fighters for our country. It was Treason and an act of rebellion to succeed from the union. It was centered around the issue of slavery which they did not want to give up. These were not heros... They were racist traitors.

Actually the confederates were tired of being raped through taxes.
European and New England capitalists and investors controlled the north's shipping on the Great Lakes but had no railway system to transport their goods en masse overland other than mule trains and river barges. Northern states wanted the wealth of the south. Then something happened in Washington that Southern states referred to as the "Tariff of Abominations." It was "a protective tariff passed by the Congress of the United States on May 19, 1828, designed to protect industry in the northern United States. Enacted during the presidency of John Quincy Adams, it was labeled the Tariff of Abominations by its southern detractors because of the effects it had on the antebellum Southern economy. It set a 62% tax on 92% of all imported goods." Fort Sumter was a tariff collection facility. The overland railroad did not commence until the 1860's with the Central Pacific Railroad, The Northern Industrialists wanted a war to use as an excuse to get the South's resources for pennies on the dollar. They began a campaign about 1830 that would influence the common people of the North and create enmity that would allow them to go to war against the South. These Northern Industrialists brought up a morality claim against the South alleging the evils of slavery. The Northern Hypocrites conveniently neglected to publicize the fact that 5 New England States ( Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and New York ) were primarily responsible for the importation of most of the slaves from Africa to America. These states had both private and state owned fleets of ships. Essentially, Abraham Lincoln as President wanted a war with the south but wanted to blame the south for firing the first shot. I guess it could be said he pissed on the original constitution governing a constitutional republic of independent states and he got his war. BY the way, it is claimed Robert E. Lee, a West Point Graduate was Lincoln's first choice as General for Lincoln's Union. Lee declined the south was destroyed beyond reconstruction and here we are today. I can understand why Lee's so-called descendants might conceivably want the statues down. He brought death and destruction down on his own people. But let's not forget it was Lincoln who refused to meet with a southern delegation to workout a peaceful solution before the war. And that is precisely what led to the south seceding from the Union. Slavery is a BS claim that had absolutely nothing to do with starting the Civil War.

That's nonsense.

The 'peaceful solution' offered was the Crittenden compromise which would have constitutionally perpetuated slavery. The South wanted it, the abolitionist Republicans did not.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

^^^ The American Taliban alive and well. Mind your own area and leave others alone with their own historical monuments. If the people in those areas desire to remove those monuments or not use their flags let them do it and if in public areas they can do it by vote. If not you are no better than a Taliban, Nazi or Islamist asshole yourself.

I never said anything different than that... you should slow down before you jump on the judgements. Taliban? Give me a break

These are not all your words? "Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views."

Yes those are my words, so what?? I'm not talking about destroying statues in an anarchist way. We have a legal and legitimate way of doing it through petitions and public forums and city council meetings. Get loud and get active and rally support and either put those statues in a museum or melt them down or build counter statues. Its a better method to fight against the Nazis and KKK than throwing piss at them.

Those statutes and flags belong to the people and their communities. If you don't live there and are not a member of that community what is it to you? You are sounding more and more like a fascist who wants to force government upon states.

The confederate generals and soldiers took arms AGAINST our country. They were not fighters for our country. It was Treason and an act of rebellion to succeed from the union. It was centered around the issue of slavery which they did not want to give up. These were not heros... They were racist traitors.

Actually the confederates were tired of being raped through taxes.
European and New England capitalists and investors controlled the north's shipping on the Great Lakes but had no railway system to transport their goods en masse overland other than mule trains and river barges. Northern states wanted the wealth of the south. Then something happened in Washington that Southern states referred to as the "Tariff of Abominations." It was "a protective tariff passed by the Congress of the United States on May 19, 1828, designed to protect industry in the northern United States. Enacted during the presidency of John Quincy Adams, it was labeled the Tariff of Abominations by its southern detractors because of the effects it had on the antebellum Southern economy. It set a 62% tax on 92% of all imported goods." Fort Sumter was a tariff collection facility. The overland railroad did not commence until the 1860's with the Central Pacific Railroad, The Northern Industrialists wanted a war to use as an excuse to get the South's resources for pennies on the dollar. They began a campaign about 1830 that would influence the common people of the North and create enmity that would allow them to go to war against the South. These Northern Industrialists brought up a morality claim against the South alleging the evils of slavery. The Northern Hypocrites conveniently neglected to publicize the fact that 5 New England States ( Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and New York ) were primarily responsible for the importation of most of the slaves from Africa to America. These states had both private and state owned fleets of ships. Essentially, Abraham Lincoln as President wanted a war with the south but wanted to blame the south for firing the first shot. I guess it could be said he pissed on the original constitution governing a constitutional republic of independent states and he got his war. BY the way, it is claimed Robert E. Lee, a West Point Graduate was Lincoln's first choice as General for Lincoln's Union. Lee declined the south was destroyed beyond reconstruction and here we are today. I can understand why Lee's so-called descendants might conceivably want the statues down. He brought death and destruction down on his own people. But let's not forget it was Lincoln who refused to meet with a southern delegation to workout a peaceful solution before the war. And that is precisely what led to the south seceding from the Union. Slavery is a BS claim that had absolutely nothing to do with starting the Civil War.

The above is what erasing history looks like, a thousand times moreso than taking down some statue.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If it were up to me, I'd meet these gatherings of NAZIS and other bigots with a massive display of silence.

Of course, I have the luxury of privilege.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Conservatives want free speech for conservatives.

Remember the protests over Ann Coulter appearing at Berkeley. Long before any violence was involved,

conservatives were vigorously defending free speech rights, but for whom? For Coulter, of course. Not the demonstrators.

 

[2aguy]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

These racist groups......are so small in size that what you saw in Virginia is pretty much all of them in the entire country.....they get more coverage than they actually deserve because the democrats in the press want to use them to smear Trump.

The President did not minimize the racists......he named them.....that he also called out the actual violence by the antifa and black lives matter thugs is what caused you guys to go nuts......

Notice.....the only ones trying to silence free speech in Virginia....was antifa and black lives matter......right? Did you see the white racists stopping bernie or hilary rallies? Did you see white racists preventing anyone from speaking on college campuses? Did you see white racists attacking non violen, peaceful rally attendees anywhere in the country in the last two years, did you see the white racists attacking police with rocks, pop cans, and clubs?

Who did you see doing all of that......antifa, and black lives matter.....

I can't stand racists of any kind.....but the left seems to think black racism is okay....and that is the problem...they don't even see that this is a problem....

All racism is stupid....but the left believes in racism, both the white racists and the black racists were in Virginia last weekend...both need to be called out.

 

[2aguy]

Conservatives want free speech for conservatives.

Remember the protests over Ann Coulter appearing at Berkeley. Long before any violence was involved,

conservatives were vigorously defending free speech rights, but for whom? For Coulter, of course. Not the demonstrators.

Shit bird.......leftist speakers go to any college campus they want, no matter how vile they are....and no one stops them....the only ones being stopped are conservatives.....

Conservatives don't even care about protestors at their speaches...until they shut the speaches down....

You are lying...you know the truth, you are an asshole.

 

[Mac1958]

I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

Wow, good for you, you get it. Nice to see.

You probably won't convince the illiberal leftist authoritarians who infest the Democratic Party of this, but any fellow voice in the wilderness is a welcome sight.

The tough part is remembering and advocating for this philosophy across the board, not just on this issue. But if you can do it on this, you can do it on anything.

REAL liberalism welcomes and demands true freedom of expression.
.

 

[2aguy]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

Did you feel the same way about antifa? Since they are marxists.......and the marxists murdered more people in more countries than the national socialists....then you must also feel the same thing about them...right? you know, to be consistent...right?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Conservatives want free speech for conservatives.

Remember the protests over Ann Coulter appearing at Berkeley. Long before any violence was involved,

conservatives were vigorously defending free speech rights, but for whom? For Coulter, of course. Not the demonstrators.

Shit bird.......leftist speakers go to any college campus they want, no matter how vile they are....and no one stops them....the only ones being stopped are conservatives.....

Conservatives don't even care about protestors at their speaches...until they shut the speaches down....

You are lying...you know the truth, you are an asshole.

Really? You have the long list of leftist speakers who've spoken at Liberty University? Bob Jones? Oral Roberts?

 

[easyt65]

The reason to remove the statues is to respect the rule of law.

WTF?!

You almost dound like the Charlottesville Antifa leader: "Violence had to be used to protect non-violence."

 

[LoneLaugher]

The reason to remove the statues is to respect the rule of law.

WTF?!

You almost dound like the Charlottesville Antifa leader: "Violence had to be used to protect non-violence."

You have video of this Antifa leader? What's his or her name?

Link please.

 

[easyt65]

You have video of this Antifa leader? What's his or her name?
Link please.

Already posted - look for the thread...

 

[LoneLaugher]

You have video of this Antifa leader? What's his or her name?
Link please.

Already posted - look for the thread...

No.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

All sides have killed millions.

Furthermore much of what is described as 'White Supremacist" was merely just "Greed"

Slavery for example was about greed, it was a business for goodness sake.

But, the elites have brainwashed the idiotic masses into thinking slavery is White Supremacist.

Oh really? When was the last time that a true White Supremacist wanted to import Blacks into his own backyard like Slave-masters did?

 

[Marion Morrison]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

Also, somebody wearing a shirt is very different than a statue or monument in a public square. You don't see statues of Hitler or his generals or a park named Nazi park in Germany. Doesn't that just make sense?

You're an idiot. Take your ass to Atlanta and find some old-timey men and women to tell you what they think of the Northern army.

The South did not invade the North. The Southern army did not commit atrocities like the Northern army did. Get you some history, son.

Furthermore, there a lot of freed-black slaveowners. While it's true a small handful of white plantation owners had most of the slaves, smaller farms that had slaves were quite likely to be black-owned.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

Also, somebody wearing a shirt is very different than a statue or monument in a public square. You don't see statues of Hitler or his generals or a park named Nazi park in Germany. Doesn't that just make sense?

The Southern army did not commit atrocities like the Northern army did. Get you some history, son.

Camp Sumter says otherwise.

 

[BluesLegend]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

Well said, we cannot endanger the Constitutional rights and freedoms of the people due to the actions of a few racist scumbags. These rights and freedoms are not cost free.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The reason to remove the statues is to respect the rule of law.

WTF?!

You almost dound like the Charlottesville Antifa leader: "Violence had to be used to protect non-violence."

For the hundredth time I believe that the governments where the statues are located should decide their fate.

Duh?