Racist groups vs Free Speech, i've converted...

[NYcarbineer]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

Also, somebody wearing a shirt is very different than a statue or monument in a public square. You don't see statues of Hitler or his generals or a park named Nazi park in Germany. Doesn't that just make sense?

You're an idiot. Take your ass to Atlanta and find some old-timey men and women to tell you what they think of the Northern army.

The South did not invade the North. The Southern army did not commit atrocities like the Northern army did. Get you some history, son.

Furthermore, there a lot of freed-black slaveowners. While it's true a small handful of white plantation owners had most of the slaves, smaller farms that had slaves were quite likely to be black-owned.

The South seized Federal property including military assets and with that alone justified the North taking military action.

 

[easyt65]

You have video of this Antifa leader? What's his or her name?
Link please.

Already posted - look for the thread...

No.

Then don't bitch about no link. Stay ignorant.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You have video of this Antifa leader? What's his or her name?
Link please.

Already posted - look for the thread...

No.

Then don't bitch about no link. Stay ignorant.

Put the link here, ya lazy fuck.

 

[easyt65]

Put the link here, ya lazy fuck.

If you want to be educated, put forth some effort, you lazy fu@k.

 

[bripat9643]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

The reason to remove the statues is to respect the rule of law. It's the same reason to leave them in place.

Uh, no, that has nothing to do with why they are being removed. Sneaking them away in the dead of night is respecting the rule of law? When did you ever show any respect for the rule of law?

 

[bripat9643]

Conservatives want free speech for conservatives.

Remember the protests over Ann Coulter appearing at Berkeley. Long before any violence was involved,

conservatives were vigorously defending free speech rights, but for whom? For Coulter, of course. Not the demonstrators.

So you're against free speech for Ann Coulter?

 

[bripat9643]

^^^ The American Taliban alive and well. Mind your own area and leave others alone with their own historical monuments. If the people in those areas desire to remove those monuments or not use their flags let them do it and if in public areas they can do it by vote. If not you are no better than a Taliban, Nazi or Islamist asshole yourself.

I never said anything different than that... you should slow down before you jump on the judgements. Taliban? Give me a break

These are not all your words? "Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views."

Yes those are my words, so what?? I'm not talking about destroying statues in an anarchist way. We have a legal and legitimate way of doing it through petitions and public forums and city council meetings. Get loud and get active and rally support and either put those statues in a museum or melt them down or build counter statues. Its a better method to fight against the Nazis and KKK than throwing piss at them.

Those statutes and flags belong to the people and their communities. If you don't live there and are not a member of that community what is it to you? You are sounding more and more like a fascist who wants to force government upon states.

The confederate generals and soldiers took arms AGAINST our country. They were not fighters for our country. It was Treason and an act of rebellion to succeed from the union. It was centered around the issue of slavery which they did not want to give up. These were not heros... They were racist traitors.

Actually the confederates were tired of being raped through taxes.
European and New England capitalists and investors controlled the north's shipping on the Great Lakes but had no railway system to transport their goods en masse overland other than mule trains and river barges. Northern states wanted the wealth of the south. Then something happened in Washington that Southern states referred to as the "Tariff of Abominations." It was "a protective tariff passed by the Congress of the United States on May 19, 1828, designed to protect industry in the northern United States. Enacted during the presidency of John Quincy Adams, it was labeled the Tariff of Abominations by its southern detractors because of the effects it had on the antebellum Southern economy. It set a 62% tax on 92% of all imported goods." Fort Sumter was a tariff collection facility. The overland railroad did not commence until the 1860's with the Central Pacific Railroad, The Northern Industrialists wanted a war to use as an excuse to get the South's resources for pennies on the dollar. They began a campaign about 1830 that would influence the common people of the North and create enmity that would allow them to go to war against the South. These Northern Industrialists brought up a morality claim against the South alleging the evils of slavery. The Northern Hypocrites conveniently neglected to publicize the fact that 5 New England States ( Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and New York ) were primarily responsible for the importation of most of the slaves from Africa to America. These states had both private and state owned fleets of ships. Essentially, Abraham Lincoln as President wanted a war with the south but wanted to blame the south for firing the first shot. I guess it could be said he pissed on the original constitution governing a constitutional republic of independent states and he got his war. BY the way, it is claimed Robert E. Lee, a West Point Graduate was Lincoln's first choice as General for Lincoln's Union. Lee declined the south was destroyed beyond reconstruction and here we are today. I can understand why Lee's so-called descendants might conceivably want the statues down. He brought death and destruction down on his own people. But let's not forget it was Lincoln who refused to meet with a southern delegation to workout a peaceful solution before the war. And that is precisely what led to the south seceding from the Union. Slavery is a BS claim that had absolutely nothing to do with starting the Civil War.

The above is what erasing history looks like, a thousand times moreso than taking down some statue.

If someone posts the facts, that is erasing history?

 

[bripat9643]

^^^ The American Taliban alive and well. Mind your own area and leave others alone with their own historical monuments. If the people in those areas desire to remove those monuments or not use their flags let them do it and if in public areas they can do it by vote. If not you are no better than a Taliban, Nazi or Islamist asshole yourself.

I never said anything different than that... you should slow down before you jump on the judgements. Taliban? Give me a break

These are not all your words? "Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views."

Yes those are my words, so what?? I'm not talking about destroying statues in an anarchist way. We have a legal and legitimate way of doing it through petitions and public forums and city council meetings. Get loud and get active and rally support and either put those statues in a museum or melt them down or build counter statues. Its a better method to fight against the Nazis and KKK than throwing piss at them.

Those statutes and flags belong to the people and their communities. If you don't live there and are not a member of that community what is it to you? You are sounding more and more like a fascist who wants to force government upon states.

The confederate generals and soldiers took arms AGAINST our country. They were not fighters for our country. It was Treason and an act of rebellion to succeed from the union. It was centered around the issue of slavery which they did not want to give up. These were not heros... They were racist traitors.

Actually the confederates were tired of being raped through taxes.
European and New England capitalists and investors controlled the north's shipping on the Great Lakes but had no railway system to transport their goods en masse overland other than mule trains and river barges. Northern states wanted the wealth of the south. Then something happened in Washington that Southern states referred to as the "Tariff of Abominations." It was "a protective tariff passed by the Congress of the United States on May 19, 1828, designed to protect industry in the northern United States. Enacted during the presidency of John Quincy Adams, it was labeled the Tariff of Abominations by its southern detractors because of the effects it had on the antebellum Southern economy. It set a 62% tax on 92% of all imported goods." Fort Sumter was a tariff collection facility. The overland railroad did not commence until the 1860's with the Central Pacific Railroad, The Northern Industrialists wanted a war to use as an excuse to get the South's resources for pennies on the dollar. They began a campaign about 1830 that would influence the common people of the North and create enmity that would allow them to go to war against the South. These Northern Industrialists brought up a morality claim against the South alleging the evils of slavery. The Northern Hypocrites conveniently neglected to publicize the fact that 5 New England States ( Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and New York ) were primarily responsible for the importation of most of the slaves from Africa to America. These states had both private and state owned fleets of ships. Essentially, Abraham Lincoln as President wanted a war with the south but wanted to blame the south for firing the first shot. I guess it could be said he pissed on the original constitution governing a constitutional republic of independent states and he got his war. BY the way, it is claimed Robert E. Lee, a West Point Graduate was Lincoln's first choice as General for Lincoln's Union. Lee declined the south was destroyed beyond reconstruction and here we are today. I can understand why Lee's so-called descendants might conceivably want the statues down. He brought death and destruction down on his own people. But let's not forget it was Lincoln who refused to meet with a southern delegation to workout a peaceful solution before the war. And that is precisely what led to the south seceding from the Union. Slavery is a BS claim that had absolutely nothing to do with starting the Civil War.

That's nonsense.

The 'peaceful solution' offered was the Crittenden compromise which would have constitutionally perpetuated slavery. The South wanted it, the abolitionist Republicans did not.

Lincoln supported this "compromise," but you think he's some kind of hero.

 

[bripat9643]

Conservatives want free speech for conservatives.

Remember the protests over Ann Coulter appearing at Berkeley. Long before any violence was involved,

conservatives were vigorously defending free speech rights, but for whom? For Coulter, of course. Not the demonstrators.

Shit bird.......leftist speakers go to any college campus they want, no matter how vile they are....and no one stops them....the only ones being stopped are conservatives.....

Conservatives don't even care about protestors at their speaches...until they shut the speaches down....

You are lying...you know the truth, you are an asshole.

Really? You have the long list of leftist speakers who've spoken at Liberty University? Bob Jones? Oral Roberts?

Almost every university in the country is leftist, you fucking moron. You can count the right wing universities with the fingers on one hand.

 

[jknowgood]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

I disagree, that might be the short term play that they will attempt to capitalize on but in the long term it is removing a source of power and supremacy that exists. Many of those statues were constructed during the Jim Crow era as a check to the blacks that the values of the confederacy still exist. Like I said in the OP whether you take them down or minimize them with "counter" statues of civil rights leaders, I think either is a smart move to combat the hate.

 

[bripat9643]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

Also, somebody wearing a shirt is very different than a statue or monument in a public square. You don't see statues of Hitler or his generals or a park named Nazi park in Germany. Doesn't that just make sense?

You're an idiot. Take your ass to Atlanta and find some old-timey men and women to tell you what they think of the Northern army.

The South did not invade the North. The Southern army did not commit atrocities like the Northern army did. Get you some history, son.

Furthermore, there a lot of freed-black slaveowners. While it's true a small handful of white plantation owners had most of the slaves, smaller farms that had slaves were quite likely to be black-owned.

The South seized Federal property including military assets and with that alone justified the North taking military action.

No it doesn't, dumbass. Show me in international law where confiscating property within your borders is an act of war.

 

[Crixus]

The confederate generals and soldiers took arms AGAINST our country. They were not fighters for our country. It was Treason and an act of rebellion to succeed from the union. It was centered around the issue of slavery which they did not want to give up. These were not heros... They were racist traitors.

Wrong. The did nothing but defend their country. Lincoln is the one who took up arms against states of the union. What he did fits the official definition of treason.

Slavery was the law of the land at the time. If they didn't like it, tough. They should have passed a Constitutional amendment to end it.

Ever heard of Fort Sumter?? Learn your history dude

Ft Sumter is within the borders of South Carolina and Union soldiers were trespassing there until they were rightfully evicted.

So now our Millitary bases belong to the states? And I guess the fact that the confederate army fired the first shot on the Union is not important at all. You're facts are all out of whack man. Why are you standing up for the confederates?

The property belonged to the Union, just as Subic Bay once belonged to the United States. However, Subic Bay is within the borders of the Philippines and Ft Sumter is within the borders of South Carolina. If the government of SC tells Union soldiers to get the hell out, then they better damn well do it, just as we had to get the hell out of Subic Bay when the government of the Philippines demanded it.

And, no, it doesn't matter that SC fired the first shot, just as it doesn't matter if you fire the first shot at some home invader when he climbs through your window.

I would fire multiple shots at the home invader.

 

[Mac1958]

The Regressives pretend to support freedom of expression, but they obviously do not.

Because they are not liberals.

So, they have to resort to their standard deflect/pivot/attack approach when challenged.
.

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong. The did nothing but defend their country. Lincoln is the one who took up arms against states of the union. What he did fits the official definition of treason.

Slavery was the law of the land at the time. If they didn't like it, tough. They should have passed a Constitutional amendment to end it.

Ever heard of Fort Sumter?? Learn your history dude

Ft Sumter is within the borders of South Carolina and Union soldiers were trespassing there until they were rightfully evicted.

So now our Millitary bases belong to the states? And I guess the fact that the confederate army fired the first shot on the Union is not important at all. You're facts are all out of whack man. Why are you standing up for the confederates?

The property belonged to the Union, just as Subic Bay once belonged to the United States. However, Subic Bay is within the borders of the Philippines and Ft Sumter is within the borders of South Carolina. If the government of SC tells Union soldiers to get the hell out, then they better damn well do it, just as we had to get the hell out of Subic Bay when the government of the Philippines demanded it.

And, no, it doesn't matter that SC fired the first shot, just as it doesn't matter if you fire the first shot at some home invader when he climbs through your window.

I would fire multiple shots at the home invader.

Notice that none of the snowflakes responded to this.

 

[Manonthestreet]

‘Peanuts’ Explains Why Conservatives Go Mum On White Supremacy

 

[The Original Tree]

I don't like Racists, but I hate Seditionists. The Democrat Party's Official Position that Assasinating Police Officers, & The President as an Official Policy and Plank in Their Political Platform tells me that we need to Resurrect The Alien & Sedition Acts.

People in The Media and Politicians promoting Sedition and Violence need to be arrested and Prosecuted along with any other group doing the same.

This Nation is Under Siege by Leftists and we are in a War. Nations like Mexico, Syria, Iran, Korea need to be declared as Hostile Nations & The Press needs to be declared Hostile as well and be held liable for hostile rhetoric, defamatory language and the promotion of Fake News.

 

[sartre play]

Can't see where crazy is tied to one political party, seems we have more than enough crazy to go around.

 

[RodISHI]

^^^ The American Taliban alive and well. Mind your own area and leave others alone with their own historical monuments. If the people in those areas desire to remove those monuments or not use their flags let them do it and if in public areas they can do it by vote. If not you are no better than a Taliban, Nazi or Islamist asshole yourself.

I never said anything different than that... you should slow down before you jump on the judgements. Taliban? Give me a break

These are not all your words? "Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views."

Yes those are my words, so what?? I'm not talking about destroying statues in an anarchist way. We have a legal and legitimate way of doing it through petitions and public forums and city council meetings. Get loud and get active and rally support and either put those statues in a museum or melt them down or build counter statues. Its a better method to fight against the Nazis and KKK than throwing piss at them.

Those statutes and flags belong to the people and their communities. If you don't live there and are not a member of that community what is it to you? You are sounding more and more like a fascist who wants to force government upon states.

The confederate generals and soldiers took arms AGAINST our country. They were not fighters for our country. It was Treason and an act of rebellion to succeed from the union. It was centered around the issue of slavery which they did not want to give up. These were not heros... They were racist traitors.

Actually the confederates were tired of being raped through taxes.
European and New England capitalists and investors controlled the north's shipping on the Great Lakes but had no railway system to transport their goods en masse overland other than mule trains and river barges. Northern states wanted the wealth of the south. Then something happened in Washington that Southern states referred to as the "Tariff of Abominations." It was "a protective tariff passed by the Congress of the United States on May 19, 1828, designed to protect industry in the northern United States. Enacted during the presidency of John Quincy Adams, it was labeled the Tariff of Abominations by its southern detractors because of the effects it had on the antebellum Southern economy. It set a 62% tax on 92% of all imported goods." Fort Sumter was a tariff collection facility. The overland railroad did not commence until the 1860's with the Central Pacific Railroad, The Northern Industrialists wanted a war to use as an excuse to get the South's resources for pennies on the dollar. They began a campaign about 1830 that would influence the common people of the North and create enmity that would allow them to go to war against the South. These Northern Industrialists brought up a morality claim against the South alleging the evils of slavery. The Northern Hypocrites conveniently neglected to publicize the fact that 5 New England States ( Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and New York ) were primarily responsible for the importation of most of the slaves from Africa to America. These states had both private and state owned fleets of ships. Essentially, Abraham Lincoln as President wanted a war with the south but wanted to blame the south for firing the first shot. I guess it could be said he pissed on the original constitution governing a constitutional republic of independent states and he got his war. BY the way, it is claimed Robert E. Lee, a West Point Graduate was Lincoln's first choice as General for Lincoln's Union. Lee declined the south was destroyed beyond reconstruction and here we are today. I can understand why Lee's so-called descendants might conceivably want the statues down. He brought death and destruction down on his own people. But let's not forget it was Lincoln who refused to meet with a southern delegation to workout a peaceful solution before the war. And that is precisely what led to the south seceding from the Union. Slavery is a BS claim that had absolutely nothing to do with starting the Civil War.

That's nonsense.

The 'peaceful solution' offered was the Crittenden compromise which would have constitutionally perpetuated slavery. The South wanted it, the abolitionist Republicans did not.

Get your dates right, you are talking about something eight months after the war had already started.

^^^ The American Taliban alive and well. Mind your own area and leave others alone with their own historical monuments. If the people in those areas desire to remove those monuments or not use their flags let them do it and if in public areas they can do it by vote. If not you are no better than a Taliban, Nazi or Islamist asshole yourself.

I never said anything different than that... you should slow down before you jump on the judgements. Taliban? Give me a break

These are not all your words? "Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views."

Yes those are my words, so what?? I'm not talking about destroying statues in an anarchist way. We have a legal and legitimate way of doing it through petitions and public forums and city council meetings. Get loud and get active and rally support and either put those statues in a museum or melt them down or build counter statues. Its a better method to fight against the Nazis and KKK than throwing piss at them.

Those statutes and flags belong to the people and their communities. If you don't live there and are not a member of that community what is it to you? You are sounding more and more like a fascist who wants to force government upon states.

The confederate generals and soldiers took arms AGAINST our country. They were not fighters for our country. It was Treason and an act of rebellion to succeed from the union. It was centered around the issue of slavery which they did not want to give up. These were not heros... They were racist traitors.

Actually the confederates were tired of being raped through taxes.
European and New England capitalists and investors controlled the north's shipping on the Great Lakes but had no railway system to transport their goods en masse overland other than mule trains and river barges. Northern states wanted the wealth of the south. Then something happened in Washington that Southern states referred to as the "Tariff of Abominations." It was "a protective tariff passed by the Congress of the United States on May 19, 1828, designed to protect industry in the northern United States. Enacted during the presidency of John Quincy Adams, it was labeled the Tariff of Abominations by its southern detractors because of the effects it had on the antebellum Southern economy. It set a 62% tax on 92% of all imported goods." Fort Sumter was a tariff collection facility. The overland railroad did not commence until the 1860's with the Central Pacific Railroad, The Northern Industrialists wanted a war to use as an excuse to get the South's resources for pennies on the dollar. They began a campaign about 1830 that would influence the common people of the North and create enmity that would allow them to go to war against the South. These Northern Industrialists brought up a morality claim against the South alleging the evils of slavery. The Northern Hypocrites conveniently neglected to publicize the fact that 5 New England States ( Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and New York ) were primarily responsible for the importation of most of the slaves from Africa to America. These states had both private and state owned fleets of ships. Essentially, Abraham Lincoln as President wanted a war with the south but wanted to blame the south for firing the first shot. I guess it could be said he pissed on the original constitution governing a constitutional republic of independent states and he got his war. BY the way, it is claimed Robert E. Lee, a West Point Graduate was Lincoln's first choice as General for Lincoln's Union. Lee declined the south was destroyed beyond reconstruction and here we are today. I can understand why Lee's so-called descendants might conceivably want the statues down. He brought death and destruction down on his own people. But let's not forget it was Lincoln who refused to meet with a southern delegation to workout a peaceful solution before the war. And that is precisely what led to the south seceding from the Union. Slavery is a BS claim that had absolutely nothing to do with starting the Civil War.

The above is what erasing history looks like, a thousand times moreso than taking down some statue.

Actually it sounds like you are the one attempting to change things.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[
Get your dates right, you are talking about something eight months after the war had already started.
.

You're an idiot.

Crittenden Compromise - Wikipedia

Civil War began officially on 4/12/61

 

[Slash]

No it doesn't, dumbass. Show me in international law where confiscating property within your borders is an act of war.

Really? First it was a rebellion. When the Supreme Court ruled on the legality of that secession they said the Constitution proved it illegal. The President has powers to quell rebellion.

2nd What do you mean "international Law". That' doesn't usurp the Constitution no matter how much people like you want to burn that piece of paper when it doesn't say what you wish it would.

3rd. Those states signed contracts signing over the land to the US in perpetuity. They took over dozens of forts, bases, weapons Cache's, federal banks and mints, and ships. Those that the Union did not surrender were bombed. How's that not reason for war? Someone takes a bunch of nuclear subs and carriers and takes over fort Knox and start bombing Fort Benning Ga until we surrender it a day later, I'd hope the president fought back.