Racist groups vs Free Speech, i've converted...

[2aguy]

Here you go....antifa strikes again..

Video: Antifa Attacks Woman Holding American Flag in Boston, Hits and Drags Her Across Boston Common

 

[2aguy]

I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

All sides have killed millions.

Furthermore much of what is described as 'White Supremacist" was merely just "Greed"

Slavery for example was about greed, it was a business for goodness sake.

But, the elites have brainwashed the idiotic masses into thinking slavery is White Supremacist.

Oh really? When was the last time that a true White Supremacist wanted to import Blacks into his own backyard like Slave-masters did?

Well you had Nazi's chanting about eradicating Jews from our country just last weekend and you have the KKK and other groups fighting for the right to segregate and live in communities and run businesses that only include whites. You don't find that as reprehensible?

Yes...white racists are bad...I don't notice you calling out the black racists..the ones who actually matter now......white racists are tiny in number, made only important by the left wing media who want to use them to smear Trump.....how about the blacks on colleges who want segregated dorms? Have a problem with that? The real problem with racism now is coming from the democrat party and their groups....la raza..hispanic racists, black lives matter, black racists....they are embraced by the democrats and they are hard core racists......

If you don't like racism, call all racism out....

 

[Slade3200]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

I disagree, that might be the short term play that they will attempt to capitalize on but in the long term it is removing a source of power and supremacy that exists. Many of those statues were constructed during the Jim Crow era as a check to the blacks that the values of the confederacy still exist. Like I said in the OP whether you take them down or minimize them with "counter" statues of civil rights leaders, I think either is a smart move to combat the hate.

You really think taking down statues of confederate generals is erasing history? Please explain that one...

How is it not.

Where is the history going? Do you think that the story of the civil war and the people who were involved are going to get lost because there isn't a statue in the park anymore?

If a statue is important to the community than the community won't take it down... If not then they can toss it or put it in a museum. I don't see what the big deal is. Many people see these statues as racist symbols, if thats the case then why would you fight to keep them up in public arenas?? I use the example of Hitler statues in a jewish neighborhood in Germany. If its not blaringly obvious why that is inappropriate then there is no getting through to you. The history of the civil war and the history of Hitler is not going to be erased if there are no statues in parks. Open a book or go to the museum or ask Seri

 

[Slade3200]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

Did you feel the same way about antifa? Since they are marxists.......and the marxists murdered more people in more countries than the national socialists....then you must also feel the same thing about them...right? you know, to be consistent...right?

I had problems with ANTIFA in Berkley and other campuses when they shut down peoples speech. I don't support that at all. I had problems with BLM when they were chanting to kill cops. I also recognize that there are some non-extreme activists of those groups that work towards anti-discrimination causes that I support. I don't see any causes that the Nazi's and KKK support that I can stand behind. The constant diversion from Racist Nazi's onto the Left groups makes you sound real fishy. Do you understand why?

yeah...because the left wing is trying to hide their actual violence v. the one incident with about 100 white racists that we have had in about 20 years....vs. the continous violent actions of the left from attacking peaceful rally attendees to murdering police officers....they want to hide the actual violence of the left, with this one public incident of the white racists.

Are you just not capable of staying on the issue at hand. If something bad happens from a "right" extreme group, the correct way to handle it is to disavow and shame the group. Not point to the left and their history of wrong doings. That makes you an excusist.

 

[2aguy]

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

I disagree, that might be the short term play that they will attempt to capitalize on but in the long term it is removing a source of power and supremacy that exists. Many of those statues were constructed during the Jim Crow era as a check to the blacks that the values of the confederacy still exist. Like I said in the OP whether you take them down or minimize them with "counter" statues of civil rights leaders, I think either is a smart move to combat the hate.

You really think taking down statues of confederate generals is erasing history? Please explain that one...

How is it not.

Where is the history going? Do you think that the story of the civil war and the people who were involved are going to get lost because there isn't a statue in the park anymore?

If a statue is important to the community than the community won't take it down... If not then they can toss it or put it in a museum. I don't see what the big deal is. Many people see these statues as racist symbols, if thats the case then why would you fight to keep them up in public arenas?? I use the example of Hitler statues in a jewish neighborhood in Germany. If its not blaringly obvious why that is inappropriate then there is no getting through to you. The history of the civil war and the history of Hitler is not going to be erased if there are no statues in parks. Open a book or go to the museum or ask Seri

If the people of that community want them taken down they should take them down, the problem is they aren't the ones driving the issue....the issue is being driven by the left...it is a springboard to go after the founders as slave owners and since they owned slaves, the Constitution they created should be torn apart.....you can hear the left saying this...that the 1st Amendment doesn't cover "hate" speech that free speech is simply the tool of the white power structure.....the left hates the limits the Constitution and the Bill of Rights puts on their power......that is their end game.....not these statues.

 

[Slade3200]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

These racist groups......are so small in size that what you saw in Virginia is pretty much all of them in the entire country.....they get more coverage than they actually deserve because the democrats in the press want to use them to smear Trump.

The President did not minimize the racists......he named them.....that he also called out the actual violence by the antifa and black lives matter thugs is what caused you guys to go nuts......

Notice.....the only ones trying to silence free speech in Virginia....was antifa and black lives matter......right? Did you see the white racists stopping bernie or hilary rallies? Did you see white racists preventing anyone from speaking on college campuses? Did you see white racists attacking non violen, peaceful rally attendees anywhere in the country in the last two years, did you see the white racists attacking police with rocks, pop cans, and clubs?

Who did you see doing all of that......antifa, and black lives matter.....

I can't stand racists of any kind.....but the left seems to think black racism is okay....and that is the problem...they don't even see that this is a problem....

All racism is stupid....but the left believes in racism, both the white racists and the black racists were in Virginia last weekend...both need to be called out.

Which conservative or Right news outlet that you respect did not cover Charlottesville? I'm sick of the finger pointing to the Liberal media, it's a scapegoat. The Right media covers the same shit, just with a different spin.

It isn't the conservative media that are the problem....it is CBS, NBC, ABC, NPR, PBS, MSNBC, CNN and all the other left wing outlets that hide and lie about black lives matter and antifa....those outlets still dwarf conservative outlets as far as viewership goes....and the conservative outlets don't hide their bias...the left wing ones claim to be fair...they aren't.

You dodged the question. Try again. Name one Right wing media outlet that you respect. Lets see if they didn't cover this nothing of a story.

 

[2aguy]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

Did you feel the same way about antifa? Since they are marxists.......and the marxists murdered more people in more countries than the national socialists....then you must also feel the same thing about them...right? you know, to be consistent...right?

I had problems with ANTIFA in Berkley and other campuses when they shut down peoples speech. I don't support that at all. I had problems with BLM when they were chanting to kill cops. I also recognize that there are some non-extreme activists of those groups that work towards anti-discrimination causes that I support. I don't see any causes that the Nazi's and KKK support that I can stand behind. The constant diversion from Racist Nazi's onto the Left groups makes you sound real fishy. Do you understand why?

yeah...because the left wing is trying to hide their actual violence v. the one incident with about 100 white racists that we have had in about 20 years....vs. the continous violent actions of the left from attacking peaceful rally attendees to murdering police officers....they want to hide the actual violence of the left, with this one public incident of the white racists.

Are you just not capable of staying on the issue at hand. If something bad happens from a "right" extreme group, the correct way to handle it is to disavow and shame the group. Not point to the left and their history of wrong doings. That makes you an excusist.

We have all disavowed the white racist socialists...over and fucking over....even Trump did it...again and again...........and you still cover for the actual violent group that has been active for the last two years...and longer. The white racists had one event last weekend in the last 20 years......and yet they concern you more than the antifa and black lives matter groups the have shut down political rallies, college speaches, have murdered police officers and beaten peaceful people.....those you ignore to concentrate on one event vs. almost constant violoence by the antifa and black lives matter thugs....

Your sense or proportion is off ....you have blinders for antifa and black lives matter...

 

[2aguy]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

These racist groups......are so small in size that what you saw in Virginia is pretty much all of them in the entire country.....they get more coverage than they actually deserve because the democrats in the press want to use them to smear Trump.

The President did not minimize the racists......he named them.....that he also called out the actual violence by the antifa and black lives matter thugs is what caused you guys to go nuts......

Notice.....the only ones trying to silence free speech in Virginia....was antifa and black lives matter......right? Did you see the white racists stopping bernie or hilary rallies? Did you see white racists preventing anyone from speaking on college campuses? Did you see white racists attacking non violen, peaceful rally attendees anywhere in the country in the last two years, did you see the white racists attacking police with rocks, pop cans, and clubs?

Who did you see doing all of that......antifa, and black lives matter.....

I can't stand racists of any kind.....but the left seems to think black racism is okay....and that is the problem...they don't even see that this is a problem....

All racism is stupid....but the left believes in racism, both the white racists and the black racists were in Virginia last weekend...both need to be called out.

Which conservative or Right news outlet that you respect did not cover Charlottesville? I'm sick of the finger pointing to the Liberal media, it's a scapegoat. The Right media covers the same shit, just with a different spin.

It isn't the conservative media that are the problem....it is CBS, NBC, ABC, NPR, PBS, MSNBC, CNN and all the other left wing outlets that hide and lie about black lives matter and antifa....those outlets still dwarf conservative outlets as far as viewership goes....and the conservative outlets don't hide their bias...the left wing ones claim to be fair...they aren't.

You dodged the question. Try again. Name one Right wing media outlet that you respect. Lets see if they didn't cover this nothing of a story.

Not even a decent question. Who said it was a nothing story....the whole point is the lack of coverage of antifa and black lives matter and their violence..........

 

[Slade3200]

I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

All sides have killed millions.

Furthermore much of what is described as 'White Supremacist" was merely just "Greed"

Slavery for example was about greed, it was a business for goodness sake.

But, the elites have brainwashed the idiotic masses into thinking slavery is White Supremacist.

Oh really? When was the last time that a true White Supremacist wanted to import Blacks into his own backyard like Slave-masters did?

Well you had Nazi's chanting about eradicating Jews from our country just last weekend and you have the KKK and other groups fighting for the right to segregate and live in communities and run businesses that only include whites. You don't find that as reprehensible?

Yes...white racists are bad...I don't notice you calling out the black racists..the ones who actually matter now......white racists are tiny in number, made only important by the left wing media who want to use them to smear Trump.....how about the blacks on colleges who want segregated dorms? Have a problem with that? The real problem with racism now is coming from the democrat party and their groups....la raza..hispanic racists, black lives matter, black racists....they are embraced by the democrats and they are hard core racists......

If you don't like racism, call all racism out....

See there you go, you suffer from the same pathetic unawareness that Trump does.... "Yes...white racists are bad... But..."

You don't say "but the left..." you put a PERIOD after White Racists are bad.

 

[jknowgood]

I disagree, that might be the short term play that they will attempt to capitalize on but in the long term it is removing a source of power and supremacy that exists. Many of those statues were constructed during the Jim Crow era as a check to the blacks that the values of the confederacy still exist. Like I said in the OP whether you take them down or minimize them with "counter" statues of civil rights leaders, I think either is a smart move to combat the hate.

You really think taking down statues of confederate generals is erasing history? Please explain that one...

How is it not.

Where is the history going? Do you think that the story of the civil war and the people who were involved are going to get lost because there isn't a statue in the park anymore?

If a statue is important to the community than the community won't take it down... If not then they can toss it or put it in a museum. I don't see what the big deal is. Many people see these statues as racist symbols, if thats the case then why would you fight to keep them up in public arenas?? I use the example of Hitler statues in a jewish neighborhood in Germany. If its not blaringly obvious why that is inappropriate then there is no getting through to you. The history of the civil war and the history of Hitler is not going to be erased if there are no statues in parks. Open a book or go to the museum or ask Seri

If the people of that community want them taken down they should take them down, the problem is they aren't the ones driving the issue....the issue is being driven by the left...it is a springboard to go after the founders as slave owners and since they owned slaves, the Constitution they created should be torn apart.....you can hear the left saying this...that the 1st Amendment doesn't cover "hate" speech that free speech is simply the tool of the white power structure.....the left hates the limits the Constitution and the Bill of Rights puts on their power......that is their end game.....not these statues.

 

[Mac1958]

I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

Wow, good for you, you get it. Nice to see.

You probably won't convince the illiberal leftist authoritarians who infest the Democratic Party of this, but any fellow voice in the wilderness is a welcome sight.

The tough part is remembering and advocating for this philosophy across the board, not just on this issue. But if you can do it on this, you can do it on anything.

REAL liberalism welcomes and demands true freedom of expression.
.

Agree'd about real liberalism. But we also need to be careful about how we communicate. The Supremacist groups are now naming themselves around the cause of "free speech" look whats happening in Boston right now. The Free Speech Coalition. You have to be really careful not to conflate the issues. When white supremacists are speaking out it probably isn't the best time to get loud about free speech and defending their rights. I'd rather choose that time to ignore them or speak out about the values that I hold important, which go against what these groups are standing for. There will be time to speak out for free speech but do so in another breath

That was Trumps miss with how he handled the violence in Charlottesville. He pointed the light onto the left groups in the same breath as his condemnation of the hate groups and it watered down the message. Made it look to many like he was saying what he had to about the Supremacist groups but really wanted to call out the Left. I understand how his supporters like that but if you could look at it objectively you would understand how many saw it as a gross display of playing politics when the nation needed a strong moral stand.

Well, he couldn't have mangled that thing much worse.

If the Left would just stand back and point at the "supremacists", or better yet ignore them, they'd make them look even worse.

Acting like them and getting violent works to the advantage of the "supremacists".
.

 

[Slade3200]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

Did you feel the same way about antifa? Since they are marxists.......and the marxists murdered more people in more countries than the national socialists....then you must also feel the same thing about them...right? you know, to be consistent...right?

I had problems with ANTIFA in Berkley and other campuses when they shut down peoples speech. I don't support that at all. I had problems with BLM when they were chanting to kill cops. I also recognize that there are some non-extreme activists of those groups that work towards anti-discrimination causes that I support. I don't see any causes that the Nazi's and KKK support that I can stand behind. The constant diversion from Racist Nazi's onto the Left groups makes you sound real fishy. Do you understand why?

yeah...because the left wing is trying to hide their actual violence v. the one incident with about 100 white racists that we have had in about 20 years....vs. the continous violent actions of the left from attacking peaceful rally attendees to murdering police officers....they want to hide the actual violence of the left, with this one public incident of the white racists.

Are you just not capable of staying on the issue at hand. If something bad happens from a "right" extreme group, the correct way to handle it is to disavow and shame the group. Not point to the left and their history of wrong doings. That makes you an excusist.

We have all disavowed the white racist socialists...over and fucking over....even Trump did it...again and again...........and you still cover for the actual violent group that has been active for the last two years...and longer. The white racists had one event last weekend in the last 20 years......and yet they concern you more than the antifa and black lives matter groups the have shut down political rallies, college speaches, have murdered police officers and beaten peaceful people.....those you ignore to concentrate on one event vs. almost constant violoence by the antifa and black lives matter thugs....

Your sense or proportion is off ....you have blinders for antifa and black lives matter...

I don't have blinders on regarding ANTIFA or BLM. I've called out both groups. Even posted videos of BLN chanting to kill cops in a different thread like this as I was arguing with somebody that was defending them. I just know the right time and place to do it. The fact that you try and change the focus onto them during an anti white supremacist discussion is real telling.

 

[Mac1958]

The Regressives pretend to support freedom of expression, but they obviously do not.

Because they are not liberals.

So, they have to resort to their standard deflect/pivot/attack approach when challenged.
.

Don't you see that is exactly what the Right is doing with this issue? The problem was a Racist group marching the streets with torches calling for the eradication of jews, people stood up to them and a young lady died. The nation needed a strong message of morality denouncing these hate groups and the deflect/pivot/attack came to call out ANIFA and anti-speech. I agree that those are issues and they were contributing factors that lead to the violence, but it is a deflection from the real source of concern in Charlottesville

Honestly, I don't care what the Right does. They're controlled by their crazies right now, just as the Democrats are. What I want is for the Democrats to act like liberals and not nasty, illiberal leftist authoritarians.

Their behavior is part of the reason this man is in the White House in the first place. And a lot of that has to do with the Regressives' refusal to support fundamental freedom of expression.

Now the damage is done - we'll see it in the lower courts and we have to hope that Kennedy and Ginsburg can fucking stay vertical for a while.

The Left has to start looking the mirror for a change.
.
.

 

[Slade3200]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

These racist groups......are so small in size that what you saw in Virginia is pretty much all of them in the entire country.....they get more coverage than they actually deserve because the democrats in the press want to use them to smear Trump.

The President did not minimize the racists......he named them.....that he also called out the actual violence by the antifa and black lives matter thugs is what caused you guys to go nuts......

Notice.....the only ones trying to silence free speech in Virginia....was antifa and black lives matter......right? Did you see the white racists stopping bernie or hilary rallies? Did you see white racists preventing anyone from speaking on college campuses? Did you see white racists attacking non violen, peaceful rally attendees anywhere in the country in the last two years, did you see the white racists attacking police with rocks, pop cans, and clubs?

Who did you see doing all of that......antifa, and black lives matter.....

I can't stand racists of any kind.....but the left seems to think black racism is okay....and that is the problem...they don't even see that this is a problem....

All racism is stupid....but the left believes in racism, both the white racists and the black racists were in Virginia last weekend...both need to be called out.

Which conservative or Right news outlet that you respect did not cover Charlottesville? I'm sick of the finger pointing to the Liberal media, it's a scapegoat. The Right media covers the same shit, just with a different spin.

It isn't the conservative media that are the problem....it is CBS, NBC, ABC, NPR, PBS, MSNBC, CNN and all the other left wing outlets that hide and lie about black lives matter and antifa....those outlets still dwarf conservative outlets as far as viewership goes....and the conservative outlets don't hide their bias...the left wing ones claim to be fair...they aren't.

You dodged the question. Try again. Name one Right wing media outlet that you respect. Lets see if they didn't cover this nothing of a story.

Not even a decent question. Who said it was a nothing story....the whole point is the lack of coverage of antifa and black lives matter and their violence..........

You just said "These racist groups......are so small in size that what you saw in Virginia is pretty much all of them in the entire country.....they get more coverage than they actually deserve because the democrats in the press want to use them to smear Trump."

Why is it not a decent question for you to name one conservative media outlet that covered the events fairly. You are blaming the leftist media of overblowing the coverage of the story. So name a conservative outlet and lets look at their coverage.

I will say right now that the wall to wall coverage is annoying and overblown. But I see both CNN, MSNBC, and FOX all covering the same stories. Virtually the same line up, just different pundits and different spin. Its all about ratings and conflict. Those networks are more about entertainment than news. Just stop blaming them for everything. We all have the ability to think for ourselves.

 

[nat4900]

As many other fellow posters, I too face that dilemma as to whether fully allow KKK members, WS and neo-Nazis to openly spew their hatred or opt to stop their Constitution-allowed speech.

It is a tough conundrum. The problem rests with how that hate speech manages to recruit gullible and somewhat ignorant young people to join in that hate-filled ideology.

The best comparison I can make is whether we would opt to STOP radical Muslims to recruit disenfranchised young people to become terrorists for a dubious cause....After all, we sometime monitor what may go on in a Mosque to intervene if that environment is spewing hate filled and violent behaviors......

We all must make a choice regarding our love of free expression, and our desire to be safe from the spreading of more hatred.

 

[Slade3200]

You really think taking down statues of confederate generals is erasing history? Please explain that one...

How is it not.

Where is the history going? Do you think that the story of the civil war and the people who were involved are going to get lost because there isn't a statue in the park anymore?

If a statue is important to the community than the community won't take it down... If not then they can toss it or put it in a museum. I don't see what the big deal is. Many people see these statues as racist symbols, if thats the case then why would you fight to keep them up in public arenas?? I use the example of Hitler statues in a jewish neighborhood in Germany. If its not blaringly obvious why that is inappropriate then there is no getting through to you. The history of the civil war and the history of Hitler is not going to be erased if there are no statues in parks. Open a book or go to the museum or ask Seri

If the people of that community want them taken down they should take them down, the problem is they aren't the ones driving the issue....the issue is being driven by the left...it is a springboard to go after the founders as slave owners and since they owned slaves, the Constitution they created should be torn apart.....you can hear the left saying this...that the 1st Amendment doesn't cover "hate" speech that free speech is simply the tool of the white power structure.....the left hates the limits the Constitution and the Bill of Rights puts on their power......that is their end game.....not these statues.

haha, you think this is about slave owners?? That talking point doesn't land. Get a clue

 

[2aguy]

I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

All sides have killed millions.

Furthermore much of what is described as 'White Supremacist" was merely just "Greed"

Slavery for example was about greed, it was a business for goodness sake.

But, the elites have brainwashed the idiotic masses into thinking slavery is White Supremacist.

Oh really? When was the last time that a true White Supremacist wanted to import Blacks into his own backyard like Slave-masters did?

Well you had Nazi's chanting about eradicating Jews from our country just last weekend and you have the KKK and other groups fighting for the right to segregate and live in communities and run businesses that only include whites. You don't find that as reprehensible?

Yes...white racists are bad...I don't notice you calling out the black racists..the ones who actually matter now......white racists are tiny in number, made only important by the left wing media who want to use them to smear Trump.....how about the blacks on colleges who want segregated dorms? Have a problem with that? The real problem with racism now is coming from the democrat party and their groups....la raza..hispanic racists, black lives matter, black racists....they are embraced by the democrats and they are hard core racists......

If you don't like racism, call all racism out....

See there you go, you suffer from the same pathetic unawareness that Trump does.... "Yes...white racists are bad... But..."

You don't say "but the left..." you put a PERIOD after White Racists are bad.

No...you suffer from "white racists are the only problem"....the ones who have been murdering police officers and violently attacking peaceful protestors for close to 2 years.....you ignore.

 

[Mac1958]

No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.

Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.

 

[2aguy]

These racist groups......are so small in size that what you saw in Virginia is pretty much all of them in the entire country.....they get more coverage than they actually deserve because the democrats in the press want to use them to smear Trump.

The President did not minimize the racists......he named them.....that he also called out the actual violence by the antifa and black lives matter thugs is what caused you guys to go nuts......

Notice.....the only ones trying to silence free speech in Virginia....was antifa and black lives matter......right? Did you see the white racists stopping bernie or hilary rallies? Did you see white racists preventing anyone from speaking on college campuses? Did you see white racists attacking non violen, peaceful rally attendees anywhere in the country in the last two years, did you see the white racists attacking police with rocks, pop cans, and clubs?

Who did you see doing all of that......antifa, and black lives matter.....

I can't stand racists of any kind.....but the left seems to think black racism is okay....and that is the problem...they don't even see that this is a problem....

All racism is stupid....but the left believes in racism, both the white racists and the black racists were in Virginia last weekend...both need to be called out.

Which conservative or Right news outlet that you respect did not cover Charlottesville? I'm sick of the finger pointing to the Liberal media, it's a scapegoat. The Right media covers the same shit, just with a different spin.

It isn't the conservative media that are the problem....it is CBS, NBC, ABC, NPR, PBS, MSNBC, CNN and all the other left wing outlets that hide and lie about black lives matter and antifa....those outlets still dwarf conservative outlets as far as viewership goes....and the conservative outlets don't hide their bias...the left wing ones claim to be fair...they aren't.

You dodged the question. Try again. Name one Right wing media outlet that you respect. Lets see if they didn't cover this nothing of a story.

Not even a decent question. Who said it was a nothing story....the whole point is the lack of coverage of antifa and black lives matter and their violence..........

You just said "These racist groups......are so small in size that what you saw in Virginia is pretty much all of them in the entire country.....they get more coverage than they actually deserve because the democrats in the press want to use them to smear Trump."

Why is it not a decent question for you to name one conservative media outlet that covered the events fairly. You are blaming the leftist media of overblowing the coverage of the story. So name a conservative outlet and lets look at their coverage.

I will say right now that the wall to wall coverage is annoying and overblown. But I see both CNN, MSNBC, and FOX all covering the same stories. Virtually the same line up, just different pundits and different spin. Its all about ratings and conflict. Those networks are more about entertainment than news. Just stop blaming them for everything. We all have the ability to think for ourselves.

All of the conservative outlets covered the event fairly....the left wing media outlets didn't. You are missing what I am saying.

 

[Ricky LIbtardo]

Tell the truth, you're Al Sharpton aren't you?