Racist groups vs Free Speech, i've converted...

[HappyJoy]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

You have a right to believe, and say, anything you like.

You don't have a right to call other people to join you in physical violence and threat to prevent others from enjoying their same right.

So you are on the money.

Truth is, the racist ranks have been swelling since Obama took office. It's been carefully orchestrated by communists for the express purpose of shutting down free speech. The best way to take control of a country is to convince them there is a particular class of people who aren't really worthy of the same rights as everybody else, and therefore should not have those rights.

I thought it was ACORN, the Muslim Brotherhood, George Soros and AARP? Oh, and let's keep an eye on the BBB for good measure.

I said "communists", didn't I?

Yeah, AARP, real communist. How about the cub scouts?

 

[ChrisL]

And you are being intolerant of my intolerance!

We should be able to relate then!

I strongly disagree with racism, sexism and abuse of power. I think my OP shows a promotion and acceptance of free speech and people's right to hold whatever opinions they want. But I also believe that when those ideas get promoted to the public then the public has a right to push back. In my case I feel a moral obligation to speak up against such hate. Not to shut them down from talking but to expose the flaws in their logic. I've had a pretty rationale conversation with this guy, I've asked him questions, given him plenty of opportunities to make a sound arguement, which he has failed miserably at in my opinion. That's what debate it all about. I'd rather expose his agenda as hate filled emotion instead of calling him names and telling him to shut up

True, but I'm willing to bet that he feels as strongly about his views as you do about yours. I think that all the name calling and accusations are very counter productive. You can't change minds and hearts with negativity. As soon as you start with that, they will just tune you out and stop listening to anything you say no matter how much sense it makes. I suppose we all get frustrated though, when talking about such hot button topics.

I suggest you go back and read the discussion. I attacked his arguments and rationale, not him personally. He was the one calling people idiots and insulting the intelligence of people based on their race.

I am still curious about why you decided to come after me instead of him though... he was doing the same thing to me that I was doing to him as we both attacked each other's arguments.

Maybe because I already know all about his "arguments." He and I were members at another forum.

Did you challenge his arguments in the other forum?

Normally, I avoid people that I consider extremists from either side. I feel they are probably a lost cause, so why waste my time on them?

 

[Slade3200]

Anyone who has ever read my posts would know that I am all for personal choices and personal responsibility. I have no problem with mixed race couples or gay couples. I don't feel threatened by them at all, and I would date someone of another race if it was someone that I liked and was attracted to. I just wonder how liberals can demand "tolerance" for other viewpoints when they show very little in return?

The short answer is, these people aren't liberals.
.

The short answer is you're defending this, because 'liberals', or whatever your excuse is:

That doesn't even begin to speak of damages done to intellect when a stupid people, mix with smart people.

Why is it you expect liberals to be wishy-washy anyway?

Did I say something that you feel is incorrect?

And allowing people to speak their mind is a sign of strength and confidence, not a sign of being "wishy washy".

Now, what did I say that was incorrect?
.

You said these people aren't liberals when I was doing exactly what you all were critiquing me for not doing. I have many pages of conversation with this guy where I asked questions and encouraged him to speak his mind... yet you inject some leftist critique and accuse me of trying to control him.

That's what you said that was incorrect

Not every post is about YOU. Did I mention you by name, or refer to a post of yours? Nope.

Despite the complaints, no one wants to say what I said was wrong.
.

Wow, that was a quick retreat. You didn't have to mention me by name, you just right into a critique about my discussion with Mr Nazi, with a false statement. It's been exposed. Run along now

 

[Rambunctious]

Extreme right and extreme left will always collide it's how the rest respond that is important...

 

[koshergrl]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

You have a right to believe, and say, anything you like.

You don't have a right to call other people to join you in physical violence and threat to prevent others from enjoying their same right.

So you are on the money.

Truth is, the racist ranks have been swelling since Obama took office. It's been carefully orchestrated by communists for the express purpose of shutting down free speech. The best way to take control of a country is to convince them there is a particular class of people who aren't really worthy of the same rights as everybody else, and therefore should not have those rights.

I thought it was ACORN, the Muslim Brotherhood, George Soros and AARP? Oh, and let's keep an eye on the BBB for good measure.

I said "communists", didn't I?

Yeah, AARP, real communist. How about the cub scouts?

Are you kidding me, lolol.

SENIORS BEWARE: AARP HAS SOCIALIST AGENDA
Fran Tarkenton paraphrased - "AARP is communist"
Jim DeMint Exposes The Ugly Truth of AARP’s Agenda…. “Profit” !
Articles: AARP: One More Big Brother?
Put the AARP in the Progressive Camp

 

[Slade3200]

We should be able to relate then!

I strongly disagree with racism, sexism and abuse of power. I think my OP shows a promotion and acceptance of free speech and people's right to hold whatever opinions they want. But I also believe that when those ideas get promoted to the public then the public has a right to push back. In my case I feel a moral obligation to speak up against such hate. Not to shut them down from talking but to expose the flaws in their logic. I've had a pretty rationale conversation with this guy, I've asked him questions, given him plenty of opportunities to make a sound arguement, which he has failed miserably at in my opinion. That's what debate it all about. I'd rather expose his agenda as hate filled emotion instead of calling him names and telling him to shut up

True, but I'm willing to bet that he feels as strongly about his views as you do about yours. I think that all the name calling and accusations are very counter productive. You can't change minds and hearts with negativity. As soon as you start with that, they will just tune you out and stop listening to anything you say no matter how much sense it makes. I suppose we all get frustrated though, when talking about such hot button topics.

I suggest you go back and read the discussion. I attacked his arguments and rationale, not him personally. He was the one calling people idiots and insulting the intelligence of people based on their race.

I am still curious about why you decided to come after me instead of him though... he was doing the same thing to me that I was doing to him as we both attacked each other's arguments.

Maybe because I already know all about his "arguments." He and I were members at another forum.

Did you challenge his arguments in the other forum?

Normally, I avoid people that I consider extremists from either side. I feel they are probably a lost cause, so why waste my time on them?

Funny, I tend to engage and challenge those types. It does get old though, maybe you're onto something

 

[Mac1958]

The short answer is, these people aren't liberals.
.

The short answer is you're defending this, because 'liberals', or whatever your excuse is:

That doesn't even begin to speak of damages done to intellect when a stupid people, mix with smart people.

Why is it you expect liberals to be wishy-washy anyway?

Did I say something that you feel is incorrect?

And allowing people to speak their mind is a sign of strength and confidence, not a sign of being "wishy washy".

Now, what did I say that was incorrect?
.

You said these people aren't liberals when I was doing exactly what you all were critiquing me for not doing. I have many pages of conversation with this guy where I asked questions and encouraged him to speak his mind... yet you inject some leftist critique and accuse me of trying to control him.

That's what you said that was incorrect

Not every post is about YOU. Did I mention you by name, or refer to a post of yours? Nope.

Despite the complaints, no one wants to say what I said was wrong.
.

Wow, that was a quick retreat. You didn't have to mention me by name, you just right into a critique about my discussion with Mr Nazi, with a false statement. It's been exposed. Run along now

Okay, I'll run along now.

And my point stands, regardless of your transparent deflect/pivot/attack strategy.

Looks like your brave OP was bullshit, huh?
.

 

[Slade3200]

The short answer is you're defending this, because 'liberals', or whatever your excuse is:

That doesn't even begin to speak of damages done to intellect when a stupid people, mix with smart people.

Why is it you expect liberals to be wishy-washy anyway?

Did I say something that you feel is incorrect?

And allowing people to speak their mind is a sign of strength and confidence, not a sign of being "wishy washy".

Now, what did I say that was incorrect?
.

You said these people aren't liberals when I was doing exactly what you all were critiquing me for not doing. I have many pages of conversation with this guy where I asked questions and encouraged him to speak his mind... yet you inject some leftist critique and accuse me of trying to control him.

That's what you said that was incorrect

Not every post is about YOU. Did I mention you by name, or refer to a post of yours? Nope.

Despite the complaints, no one wants to say what I said was wrong.
.

Wow, that was a quick retreat. You didn't have to mention me by name, you just right into a critique about my discussion with Mr Nazi, with a false statement. It's been exposed. Run along now

Okay, I'll run along now.

And my point stands, regardless of your transparent deflect/pivot/attack strategy.

Looks like your brave OP was bullshit, huh?
.

By all means, stay and talk, but be honest in your discussion, otherwise you are just wasting our time

 

[Mac1958]

Did I say something that you feel is incorrect?

And allowing people to speak their mind is a sign of strength and confidence, not a sign of being "wishy washy".

Now, what did I say that was incorrect?
.

You said these people aren't liberals when I was doing exactly what you all were critiquing me for not doing. I have many pages of conversation with this guy where I asked questions and encouraged him to speak his mind... yet you inject some leftist critique and accuse me of trying to control him.

That's what you said that was incorrect

Not every post is about YOU. Did I mention you by name, or refer to a post of yours? Nope.

Despite the complaints, no one wants to say what I said was wrong.
.

Wow, that was a quick retreat. You didn't have to mention me by name, you just right into a critique about my discussion with Mr Nazi, with a false statement. It's been exposed. Run along now

Okay, I'll run along now.

And my point stands, regardless of your transparent deflect/pivot/attack strategy.

Looks like your brave OP was bullshit, huh?
.

By all means, stay and talk, but be honest in your discussion, otherwise you are just wasting our time

How ironic.
.

 

[HappyJoy]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

You have a right to believe, and say, anything you like.

You don't have a right to call other people to join you in physical violence and threat to prevent others from enjoying their same right.

So you are on the money.

Truth is, the racist ranks have been swelling since Obama took office. It's been carefully orchestrated by communists for the express purpose of shutting down free speech. The best way to take control of a country is to convince them there is a particular class of people who aren't really worthy of the same rights as everybody else, and therefore should not have those rights.

I thought it was ACORN, the Muslim Brotherhood, George Soros and AARP? Oh, and let's keep an eye on the BBB for good measure.

I said "communists", didn't I?

Yeah, AARP, real communist. How about the cub scouts?

Are you kidding me, lolol.

SENIORS BEWARE: AARP HAS SOCIALIST AGENDA
Fran Tarkenton paraphrased - "AARP is communist"
Jim DeMint Exposes The Ugly Truth of AARP’s Agenda…. “Profit” !
Articles: AARP: One More Big Brother?
Put the AARP in the Progressive Camp

Oh, no, Fran Tarkenton and Jim DeMint don't like the AARP. By the way, you obviously didn't read any of your links, especially the second one.

 

[HappyJoy]

The short answer is you're defending this, because 'liberals', or whatever your excuse is:

That doesn't even begin to speak of damages done to intellect when a stupid people, mix with smart people.

Why is it you expect liberals to be wishy-washy anyway?

Did I say something that you feel is incorrect?

And allowing people to speak their mind is a sign of strength and confidence, not a sign of being "wishy washy".

Now, what did I say that was incorrect?
.

You said these people aren't liberals when I was doing exactly what you all were critiquing me for not doing. I have many pages of conversation with this guy where I asked questions and encouraged him to speak his mind... yet you inject some leftist critique and accuse me of trying to control him.

That's what you said that was incorrect

Not every post is about YOU. Did I mention you by name, or refer to a post of yours? Nope.

Despite the complaints, no one wants to say what I said was wrong.
.

Wow, that was a quick retreat. You didn't have to mention me by name, you just right into a critique about my discussion with Mr Nazi, with a false statement. It's been exposed. Run along now

Okay, I'll run along now.

And my point stands, regardless of your transparent deflect/pivot/attack strategy.

Looks like your brave OP was bullshit, huh?
.

Is your point simply to barge into any thread regardless of the topic and cry out "oh, but those liberals..."?

 

[koshergrl]

You have a right to believe, and say, anything you like.

You don't have a right to call other people to join you in physical violence and threat to prevent others from enjoying their same right.

So you are on the money.

Truth is, the racist ranks have been swelling since Obama took office. It's been carefully orchestrated by communists for the express purpose of shutting down free speech. The best way to take control of a country is to convince them there is a particular class of people who aren't really worthy of the same rights as everybody else, and therefore should not have those rights.

I thought it was ACORN, the Muslim Brotherhood, George Soros and AARP? Oh, and let's keep an eye on the BBB for good measure.

I said "communists", didn't I?

Yeah, AARP, real communist. How about the cub scouts?

Are you kidding me, lolol.

SENIORS BEWARE: AARP HAS SOCIALIST AGENDA
Fran Tarkenton paraphrased - "AARP is communist"
Jim DeMint Exposes The Ugly Truth of AARP’s Agenda…. “Profit” !
Articles: AARP: One More Big Brother?
Put the AARP in the Progressive Camp

Oh, no, Fran Tarkenton and Jim DeMint don't like the AARP. By the way, you obviously didn't read any of your links, especially the second one.

Too bad you didn't. The AARP is a communist organization.

Boy scouts too, since the fag brigade took them over and sexualized it. It's all about promoting depravity and displacing traditional family values. That's the only way communism works. Honor is taught in families and churches, and people of honor and character don't fall for communism.

 

[HappyJoy]

I thought it was ACORN, the Muslim Brotherhood, George Soros and AARP? Oh, and let's keep an eye on the BBB for good measure.

I said "communists", didn't I?

Yeah, AARP, real communist. How about the cub scouts?

Are you kidding me, lolol.

SENIORS BEWARE: AARP HAS SOCIALIST AGENDA
Fran Tarkenton paraphrased - "AARP is communist"
Jim DeMint Exposes The Ugly Truth of AARP’s Agenda…. “Profit” !
Articles: AARP: One More Big Brother?
Put the AARP in the Progressive Camp

Oh, no, Fran Tarkenton and Jim DeMint don't like the AARP. By the way, you obviously didn't read any of your links, especially the second one.

Too bad you didn't. The AARP is a communist organization.

Boy scouts too, since the fag brigade took them over and sexualized it. It's all about promoting depravity and displacing traditional family values. That's the only way communism works. Honor is taught in families and churches, and people of honor and character don't fall for communism.

Is Playboy communist too?

 

[Mac1958]

Did I say something that you feel is incorrect?

And allowing people to speak their mind is a sign of strength and confidence, not a sign of being "wishy washy".

Now, what did I say that was incorrect?
.

You said these people aren't liberals when I was doing exactly what you all were critiquing me for not doing. I have many pages of conversation with this guy where I asked questions and encouraged him to speak his mind... yet you inject some leftist critique and accuse me of trying to control him.

That's what you said that was incorrect

Not every post is about YOU. Did I mention you by name, or refer to a post of yours? Nope.

Despite the complaints, no one wants to say what I said was wrong.
.

Wow, that was a quick retreat. You didn't have to mention me by name, you just right into a critique about my discussion with Mr Nazi, with a false statement. It's been exposed. Run along now

Okay, I'll run along now.

And my point stands, regardless of your transparent deflect/pivot/attack strategy.

Looks like your brave OP was bullshit, huh?
.

Is your point simply to barge into any thread regardless of the topic and cry out "oh, but those liberals..."?

Wow, you're still whining.

I like liberals very much, as should be screamingly obvious by my post.

Regressive Leftists, not so much.

I hope that's clear. Now please quit whining. It shouldn't have been such a controversial post.

 

[HappyJoy]

You said these people aren't liberals when I was doing exactly what you all were critiquing me for not doing. I have many pages of conversation with this guy where I asked questions and encouraged him to speak his mind... yet you inject some leftist critique and accuse me of trying to control him.

That's what you said that was incorrect

Not every post is about YOU. Did I mention you by name, or refer to a post of yours? Nope.

Despite the complaints, no one wants to say what I said was wrong.
.

Wow, that was a quick retreat. You didn't have to mention me by name, you just right into a critique about my discussion with Mr Nazi, with a false statement. It's been exposed. Run along now

Okay, I'll run along now.

And my point stands, regardless of your transparent deflect/pivot/attack strategy.

Looks like your brave OP was bullshit, huh?
.

Is your point simply to barge into any thread regardless of the topic and cry out "oh, but those liberals..."?

Wow, you're still whining.

I like liberals very much, as should be screamingly obvious by my post.

Regressive Leftists, not so much.

I hope that's clear. Now please quit whining. It shouldn't have been such a controversial post.

It's not controversial it;s simply you replying to posters and not giving a shit what they are, you know, specifically posting about. You just have your little pet peeve as usual, be damned the context you're posting in.

 

[Mac1958]

Not every post is about YOU. Did I mention you by name, or refer to a post of yours? Nope.

Despite the complaints, no one wants to say what I said was wrong.
.

Wow, that was a quick retreat. You didn't have to mention me by name, you just right into a critique about my discussion with Mr Nazi, with a false statement. It's been exposed. Run along now

Okay, I'll run along now.

And my point stands, regardless of your transparent deflect/pivot/attack strategy.

Looks like your brave OP was bullshit, huh?
.

Is your point simply to barge into any thread regardless of the topic and cry out "oh, but those liberals..."?

Wow, you're still whining.

I like liberals very much, as should be screamingly obvious by my post.

Regressive Leftists, not so much.

I hope that's clear. Now please quit whining. It shouldn't have been such a controversial post.

It's not controversial it;s simply you replying to posters and not giving a shit what they are, you know, specifically posting about. You just have your little pet peeve as usual, be damned the context you're posting in.

Great, thanks.
.

 

[koshergrl]

I said "communists", didn't I?

Yeah, AARP, real communist. How about the cub scouts?

Are you kidding me, lolol.

SENIORS BEWARE: AARP HAS SOCIALIST AGENDA
Fran Tarkenton paraphrased - "AARP is communist"
Jim DeMint Exposes The Ugly Truth of AARP’s Agenda…. “Profit” !
Articles: AARP: One More Big Brother?
Put the AARP in the Progressive Camp

Oh, no, Fran Tarkenton and Jim DeMint don't like the AARP. By the way, you obviously didn't read any of your links, especially the second one.

Too bad you didn't. The AARP is a communist organization.

Boy scouts too, since the fag brigade took them over and sexualized it. It's all about promoting depravity and displacing traditional family values. That's the only way communism works. Honor is taught in families and churches, and people of honor and character don't fall for communism.

Is Playboy communist too?

Are they running the boy scouts?

 

[HappyJoy]

Yeah, AARP, real communist. How about the cub scouts?

Are you kidding me, lolol.

SENIORS BEWARE: AARP HAS SOCIALIST AGENDA
Fran Tarkenton paraphrased - "AARP is communist"
Jim DeMint Exposes The Ugly Truth of AARP’s Agenda…. “Profit” !
Articles: AARP: One More Big Brother?
Put the AARP in the Progressive Camp

Oh, no, Fran Tarkenton and Jim DeMint don't like the AARP. By the way, you obviously didn't read any of your links, especially the second one.

Too bad you didn't. The AARP is a communist organization.

Boy scouts too, since the fag brigade took them over and sexualized it. It's all about promoting depravity and displacing traditional family values. That's the only way communism works. Honor is taught in families and churches, and people of honor and character don't fall for communism.

Is Playboy communist too?

Are they running the boy scouts?

No, I assume you believe Playboy promotes depravity like you believe the Boy Scouts do (lol) so, you must think Playboy is Communist, no?

 

[Slade3200]

You said these people aren't liberals when I was doing exactly what you all were critiquing me for not doing. I have many pages of conversation with this guy where I asked questions and encouraged him to speak his mind... yet you inject some leftist critique and accuse me of trying to control him.

That's what you said that was incorrect

Not every post is about YOU. Did I mention you by name, or refer to a post of yours? Nope.

Despite the complaints, no one wants to say what I said was wrong.
.

Wow, that was a quick retreat. You didn't have to mention me by name, you just right into a critique about my discussion with Mr Nazi, with a false statement. It's been exposed. Run along now

Okay, I'll run along now.

And my point stands, regardless of your transparent deflect/pivot/attack strategy.

Looks like your brave OP was bullshit, huh?
.

By all means, stay and talk, but be honest in your discussion, otherwise you are just wasting our time

How ironic.
.

Did you for get you finish your statement or is that your entire argument?

 

[Rambunctious]

Free speech is what should be the first order....