Racist groups vs Free Speech, i've converted...

[Mac1958]

If there's no non-Whites in that society, how would they possibly create kids with non-Whites?

I don't support your multicultural "Free society" and I'm outraged we haven't had Democratic voting rights, to
control our destiny over our heritage, and our future.

The U.S was setup to be a White nation, the Founding Fathers immigration act the Naturalization Act of 1790, proves it.

If you love non-Whites so much, why don't you leave the U.S for some Third-World 'Utopia"?

This, of course, begs the question...what are 'non-whites?' Obama, for instance, was a non-black (half white). Skin color is meaningless. Multiculturalism is a whole different thing however. Immigrants who come here should have to swear to be Americans...not hyphenated Americans living in hovels mirroring their country of origin. Multiculturalism is most prevalent in illegal alien populations. They come here for the $$$, send it back home and eventually undercut our economy. Skin color is a red herring.

Any questions on race, ethnicity or racism are to be directed to the nearest PC zealot, who is in charge of skin color.
.

 

[Slade3200]

It sounds like you are being intolerant of liberal intolerance. Doesn't that make you a hypocrite?

And you are being intolerant of my intolerance!

We should be able to relate then!

I strongly disagree with racism, sexism and abuse of power. I think my OP shows a promotion and acceptance of free speech and people's right to hold whatever opinions they want. But I also believe that when those ideas get promoted to the public then the public has a right to push back. In my case I feel a moral obligation to speak up against such hate. Not to shut them down from talking but to expose the flaws in their logic. I've had a pretty rationale conversation with this guy, I've asked him questions, given him plenty of opportunities to make a sound arguement, which he has failed miserably at in my opinion. That's what debate it all about. I'd rather expose his agenda as hate filled emotion instead of calling him names and telling him to shut up

True, but I'm willing to bet that he feels as strongly about his views as you do about yours. I think that all the name calling and accusations are very counter productive. You can't change minds and hearts with negativity. As soon as you start with that, they will just tune you out and stop listening to anything you say no matter how much sense it makes. I suppose we all get frustrated though, when talking about such hot button topics.

He was the one calling people idiots and insulting the intelligence of people based on their race.

What evidence do you have of racial equality of intelligence, though?

For example, if we used tired old arguments of Colonialism, or Socialism causing the Third-World condition.

How come Estonia was colonized for nearly 1,000 years, and Communist for more than 50 years, but has bounced back as Europe's leader in educational PISA scores?

Yes, in the most recent PISA scores, Estonia has not just become Europe's leader in PISA scores, but one of the leaders of the World in PISA scores.

By Liberal logic, this should be impossible, Estonia should be way behind.

And Asian countries test higher than Estonia... All this is besides the point. If you want to engineer a society for intellect then why not test the IQ of people before letting them mate instead of using it as an indirect justification for racial division?

 

[Slade3200]

I don't really need to explain the purpose of multiculturalism, I don't care if everybody mixes races or doesn't. I'm promoting freedom. You are promoting restriction and division. I say love who you want to love and be happy. You say only stick to your own race and in the processes alienate and degrade mixed race couples because of some piss poor excuses you come up with to preserve intellect, and tradition. I've already explained the flaws in your intellect argument and shown how traditions still transcend through diversity, while also pointing out that the importance you put on the heritage aspect is all in your head. It's not a real or relevant concern in the grand scheme

Well, if it really is his choice, then why do you say his argument is flawed? Is he not entitled to make his own decisions and to have his own opinions based on his own experiences, research, etc? This is what I really find hypocritical about leftists. You want to tell other people it is none of their business, but yet you are more than willing to involve yourself in another's life decisions if you don't agree with them?

That's not at all what I've been saying, he can think whatever he wants. His philosophy and goals are to control who other people love and procreate with. It's oppression over freedom. I'm obviously questioning his reasoning and challenging his "rationale" but I find it interesting that you decided to call me out as a leftist hypocrite when he is doing the same thing you accuse me of... telling other people how to live. So how come you see that in my words and not for his? Do you sympathize with his point of view?

I never once advocated so far a government love making quota.

I'm more along the lines of seeing uncontrolled multicultural immigration as a supporter of Miscegenation.

We would not need anti-Miscegenation laws, if there was no multiculturalism.

"I'm more along the lines of seeing uncontrolled multicultural immigration as a supporter of Miscegenation."
Doesn't this above quote of yours go directly against everything that you've been saying?

As for your other statement, we have a free multicultural society so what do you suggest?

I'd rather see government keep out non-Whites, rather than crack down on who we have kids with.

If there's no non-Whites in that society, how would they possibly create kids with non-Whites?

I don't support your multicultural "Free society" and I'm outraged we haven't had Democratic voting rights, to
control our destiny over our heritage, and our future.

The U.S was setup to be a White nation, the Founding Fathers immigration act the Naturalization Act of 1790, proves it.

If you love non-Whites so much, why don't you leave the U.S for some Third-World 'Utopia"?

It is too late for any of that, your idea of how our country was founded has been thoroughly rejected by generations of people, especially after the civil war. So it appears that you are living in the wrong country if you want your values enacted. Perhaps Estonia is a better place for you... As for our reality which is a free and multicultural society, what are you suggesting we do? Deport all non-whites? Is that something that seems realistic to you?

 

[Slade3200]

The short answer is you're defending this, because 'liberals', or whatever your excuse is:

That doesn't even begin to speak of damages done to intellect when a stupid people, mix with smart people.

Why is it you expect liberals to be wishy-washy anyway?

Did I say something that you feel is incorrect?

And allowing people to speak their mind is a sign of strength and confidence, not a sign of being "wishy washy".

Now, what did I say that was incorrect?
.

You said these people aren't liberals when I was doing exactly what you all were critiquing me for not doing. I have many pages of conversation with this guy where I asked questions and encouraged him to speak his mind... yet you inject some leftist critique and accuse me of trying to control him.

That's what you said that was incorrect

Not every post is about YOU. Did I mention you by name, or refer to a post of yours? Nope.

Despite the complaints, no one wants to say what I said was wrong.
.

, you just right into a critique about my discussion with Mr Nazi,

Who's this Mr Nazi?

I certainly am not a Nazi, Nazi Germany did untold damages to Europe, especially my beloved Poland.

Furthermore, No I don't agree with Nazi Germany's camps, or walled off ghettoes.

Apologies... Mr. Racist it is

 

[Votto]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

So leave the statues of racists up?

I guess Progs are breathing easier now knowing that statues of FDR and Wilson and JFK will remain standing, but pissed out of their minds that those of Jefferson and company remain standing.

 

[Slade3200]

I'd rather expose his agenda as hate filled emotion instead of calling him names and telling him to shut up

Uh, not all racists necessarily hate, or are filled with emotion.

Rushton was a prime example of a very logical, calculated racist

Either way, call it emotion or call it calculation, you are still trying to impose your will on a society that has outright rejected your values for decades. We had a war over it, we've pass laws that combat your values. You are swimming against the tide on this one. You can keep swimming but the current is only going to get strong... Seems like your best options are to learn to swim with the current or find a new river to swim in. But if you're happy knowing you are never going to get anywhere then by all means stay right where you are at.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

And you are being intolerant of my intolerance!

We should be able to relate then!

I strongly disagree with racism, sexism and abuse of power. I think my OP shows a promotion and acceptance of free speech and people's right to hold whatever opinions they want. But I also believe that when those ideas get promoted to the public then the public has a right to push back. In my case I feel a moral obligation to speak up against such hate. Not to shut them down from talking but to expose the flaws in their logic. I've had a pretty rationale conversation with this guy, I've asked him questions, given him plenty of opportunities to make a sound arguement, which he has failed miserably at in my opinion. That's what debate it all about. I'd rather expose his agenda as hate filled emotion instead of calling him names and telling him to shut up

True, but I'm willing to bet that he feels as strongly about his views as you do about yours. I think that all the name calling and accusations are very counter productive. You can't change minds and hearts with negativity. As soon as you start with that, they will just tune you out and stop listening to anything you say no matter how much sense it makes. I suppose we all get frustrated though, when talking about such hot button topics.

He was the one calling people idiots and insulting the intelligence of people based on their race.

What evidence do you have of racial equality of intelligence, though?

For example, if we used tired old arguments of Colonialism, or Socialism causing the Third-World condition.

How come Estonia was colonized for nearly 1,000 years, and Communist for more than 50 years, but has bounced back as Europe's leader in educational PISA scores?

Yes, in the most recent PISA scores, Estonia has not just become Europe's leader in PISA scores, but one of the leaders of the World in PISA scores.

By Liberal logic, this should be impossible, Estonia should be way behind.

And Asian countries test higher than Estonia... All this is besides the point. If you want to engineer a society for intellect then why not test the IQ of people before letting them mate instead of using it as an indirect justification for racial division?

I support boasting intellect, and also unique, and diverse peoples of this World.

It sounds like you hate diversity, you don't want racial diversity, but rather all to become one blob.

I don't agree with you.

I think that mixing actually waters down the intensity of Humanity.

If you hyper concentrate intelligent people together, and then mix those hyper concentrated intelligent people with people of low intelligence, you just end up mostly with a people intermediate.

I see no benefit to that.

Furthermore, I think unique heritages of all sorts deserve preservation.

Why should we eradicate peoples unique cultural traditions, their ways of life, and their unique phenotype features?

For what?

 

[Votto]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

I would agree. Let them say their peace and ignore them. Trying to engage them in debate is futile. Trying to engage anyone immersed in any dogma, no matter how right or wrong is also futile. It gest much harder when they are stupid. Also, it is preferable knowing what they think rather than have them hide in the shadows not knowing what to expect. It reminds me of the Trump bid for election. When asked, people were afraid to honestly admit they were going to vote for him due to the insane PC police. They did not want to lose their friends or their job ,etic, to poll after poll showed Hillary mistakenly in the lead. My guess is the same scenario will play out next election

Unfortunately, however, race is a valuable tool for political figures, especially to try and over take Trump this next election. As a result, this promises to be the most racist election driven in US history as a result. It's all about divide and conquer, so don't ever expect our political leaders to let these wounds heal. That is because their policies like Obamacare are so destructive the only way people will vote for them is because people hate.

 

[Slade3200]

We should be able to relate then!

I strongly disagree with racism, sexism and abuse of power. I think my OP shows a promotion and acceptance of free speech and people's right to hold whatever opinions they want. But I also believe that when those ideas get promoted to the public then the public has a right to push back. In my case I feel a moral obligation to speak up against such hate. Not to shut them down from talking but to expose the flaws in their logic. I've had a pretty rationale conversation with this guy, I've asked him questions, given him plenty of opportunities to make a sound arguement, which he has failed miserably at in my opinion. That's what debate it all about. I'd rather expose his agenda as hate filled emotion instead of calling him names and telling him to shut up

True, but I'm willing to bet that he feels as strongly about his views as you do about yours. I think that all the name calling and accusations are very counter productive. You can't change minds and hearts with negativity. As soon as you start with that, they will just tune you out and stop listening to anything you say no matter how much sense it makes. I suppose we all get frustrated though, when talking about such hot button topics.

He was the one calling people idiots and insulting the intelligence of people based on their race.

What evidence do you have of racial equality of intelligence, though?

For example, if we used tired old arguments of Colonialism, or Socialism causing the Third-World condition.

How come Estonia was colonized for nearly 1,000 years, and Communist for more than 50 years, but has bounced back as Europe's leader in educational PISA scores?

Yes, in the most recent PISA scores, Estonia has not just become Europe's leader in PISA scores, but one of the leaders of the World in PISA scores.

By Liberal logic, this should be impossible, Estonia should be way behind.

And Asian countries test higher than Estonia... All this is besides the point. If you want to engineer a society for intellect then why not test the IQ of people before letting them mate instead of using it as an indirect justification for racial division?

I support boasting intellect, and also unique, and diverse peoples of this World.

It sounds like you hate diversity, you don't want racial diversity, but rather all to become one blob.

I don't agree with you.

I think that mixing actually waters down the intensity of Humanity.

If you hyper concentrate intelligent people together, and then mix those hyper concentrated intelligent people with people of low intelligence, you just end up mostly with a people intermediate.

I see no benefit to that.

Furthermore, I think unique heritages of all sorts deserve preservation.

Why should we eradicate peoples unique cultural traditions, their ways of life, and their unique phenotype features?

For what?

Diversity exists everywhere. Look at you and I. We are both white americans and we obviously are on total opposite sides of the spectrum. You ask why should we eradicate peoples unique traditions? My answer is we don't need to. If people want to keep their traditions and culture then they are free to do so. If they want to forget them and experience other cultures then they are free to do that. The key word there is freedom. You seem to want to limit freedom for some fake goal of maintaining diversity and intelligence. Again i'll ask now for the 5th time, if you want to preserve intelligence then why don't you IQ test people to live in your society and cast the dumb ones out? Build walls that only the rich or the smart or the beautiful can live within and let the other bottom dwellers live outside. There is a move called In Time that takes place in a society divided by class. It's in those close minded and controlled societies that humanities ugliness really starts to come out. Thankfully, it's been rejected in this country. You seem to have a hard time understanding that.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Well, if it really is his choice, then why do you say his argument is flawed? Is he not entitled to make his own decisions and to have his own opinions based on his own experiences, research, etc? This is what I really find hypocritical about leftists. You want to tell other people it is none of their business, but yet you are more than willing to involve yourself in another's life decisions if you don't agree with them?

That's not at all what I've been saying, he can think whatever he wants. His philosophy and goals are to control who other people love and procreate with. It's oppression over freedom. I'm obviously questioning his reasoning and challenging his "rationale" but I find it interesting that you decided to call me out as a leftist hypocrite when he is doing the same thing you accuse me of... telling other people how to live. So how come you see that in my words and not for his? Do you sympathize with his point of view?

I never once advocated so far a government love making quota.

I'm more along the lines of seeing uncontrolled multicultural immigration as a supporter of Miscegenation.

We would not need anti-Miscegenation laws, if there was no multiculturalism.

"I'm more along the lines of seeing uncontrolled multicultural immigration as a supporter of Miscegenation."
Doesn't this above quote of yours go directly against everything that you've been saying?

As for your other statement, we have a free multicultural society so what do you suggest?

I'd rather see government keep out non-Whites, rather than crack down on who we have kids with.

If there's no non-Whites in that society, how would they possibly create kids with non-Whites?

I don't support your multicultural "Free society" and I'm outraged we haven't had Democratic voting rights, to
control our destiny over our heritage, and our future.

The U.S was setup to be a White nation, the Founding Fathers immigration act the Naturalization Act of 1790, proves it.

If you love non-Whites so much, why don't you leave the U.S for some Third-World 'Utopia"?

It is too late for any of that, your idea of how our country was founded has been thoroughly rejected by generations of people, especially after the civil war. So it appears that you are living in the wrong country if you want your values enacted. Perhaps Estonia is a better place for you... As for our reality which is a free and multicultural society, what are you suggesting we do? Deport all non-whites? Is that something that seems realistic to you?

Separation is possible, it was done between Turkey vs Greece after WW1, and between Poland, Germany, and Ukraine following WW2.

These were actually great decisions, that probably avoided the chaos of multiculturalism, including war, and genocide.

But, no I wouldn't consider myself terribly American.

In fact, I detest Western Europeans in general, including ones in the U.S.A.

I don't quite understand why Western Europeans went nuts looting, and shooting non-Whites, and now go nuts allowing non-Whites to go looting, and shooting their nations.

I don't understand Western Europeans, nor do I want to.

 

[Slade3200]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

I would agree. Let them say their peace and ignore them. Trying to engage them in debate is futile. Trying to engage anyone immersed in any dogma, no matter how right or wrong is also futile. It gest much harder when they are stupid. Also, it is preferable knowing what they think rather than have them hide in the shadows not knowing what to expect. It reminds me of the Trump bid for election. When asked, people were afraid to honestly admit they were going to vote for him due to the insane PC police. They did not want to lose their friends or their job ,etic, to poll after poll showed Hillary mistakenly in the lead. My guess is the same scenario will play out next election

Unfortunately, however, race is a valuable tool for political figures, especially to try and over take Trump this next election. As a result, this promises to be the most racist election driven in US history as a result. It's all about divide and conquer, so don't ever expect our political leaders to let these wounds heal. That is because their policies like Obamacare are so destructive the only way people will vote for them is because people hate.

Both sides feed off the hate and demonization. Trump took the attacks to a whole new level and it worked for him, so unfortunately the precedent is set that the bigger the asshole the bigger the payoff. I don't know what will reverse that unless there is an outright rejection of that tactic followed by a smart and effective leader who can set an example of a better way to act. Honesty, integrity, and character need to be respectable attributes again and I don't know if our drama hungry society will ever let it get there again.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

I'd rather expose his agenda as hate filled emotion instead of calling him names and telling him to shut up

Uh, not all racists necessarily hate, or are filled with emotion.

Rushton was a prime example of a very logical, calculated racist

Either way, call it emotion or call it calculation, you are still trying to impose your will on a society that has outright rejected your values for decades. We had a war over it, we've pass laws that combat your values. You are swimming against the tide on this one. You can keep swimming but the current is only going to get strong... Seems like your best options are to learn to swim with the current or find a new river to swim in. But if you're happy knowing you are never going to get anywhere then by all means stay right where you are at.

The U.S had a war over racism?

You mean the U.S had Lincoln who said he'd deport every Negro to save the Union?

The fact is both sides were racist, in the strict sense of believing Blacks were racially inferior.
It's just the Confederacy were idiots who put multiculturalism Black slavery profits, over their White heritage, bringing in the Black issue to the U.S in the first place.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

True, but I'm willing to bet that he feels as strongly about his views as you do about yours. I think that all the name calling and accusations are very counter productive. You can't change minds and hearts with negativity. As soon as you start with that, they will just tune you out and stop listening to anything you say no matter how much sense it makes. I suppose we all get frustrated though, when talking about such hot button topics.

He was the one calling people idiots and insulting the intelligence of people based on their race.

What evidence do you have of racial equality of intelligence, though?

For example, if we used tired old arguments of Colonialism, or Socialism causing the Third-World condition.

How come Estonia was colonized for nearly 1,000 years, and Communist for more than 50 years, but has bounced back as Europe's leader in educational PISA scores?

Yes, in the most recent PISA scores, Estonia has not just become Europe's leader in PISA scores, but one of the leaders of the World in PISA scores.

By Liberal logic, this should be impossible, Estonia should be way behind.

And Asian countries test higher than Estonia... All this is besides the point. If you want to engineer a society for intellect then why not test the IQ of people before letting them mate instead of using it as an indirect justification for racial division?

I support boasting intellect, and also unique, and diverse peoples of this World.

It sounds like you hate diversity, you don't want racial diversity, but rather all to become one blob.

I don't agree with you.

I think that mixing actually waters down the intensity of Humanity.

If you hyper concentrate intelligent people together, and then mix those hyper concentrated intelligent people with people of low intelligence, you just end up mostly with a people intermediate.

I see no benefit to that.

Furthermore, I think unique heritages of all sorts deserve preservation.

Why should we eradicate peoples unique cultural traditions, their ways of life, and their unique phenotype features?

For what?

Diversity exists everywhere. Look at you and I. We are both white americans and we obviously are on total opposite sides of the spectrum. You ask why should we eradicate peoples unique traditions? My answer is we don't need to. If people want to keep their traditions and culture then they are free to do so. If they want to forget them and experience other cultures then they are free to do that. The key word there is freedom. You seem to want to limit freedom for some fake goal of maintaining diversity and intelligence. Again i'll ask now for the 5th time, if you want to preserve intelligence then why don't you IQ test people to live in your society and cast the dumb ones out? Build walls that only the rich or the smart or the beautiful can live within and let the other bottom dwellers live outside. There is a move called In Time that takes place in a society divided by class. It's in those close minded and controlled societies that humanities ugliness really starts to come out. Thankfully, it's been rejected in this country. You seem to have a hard time understanding that.

I happen to think it's sad when anyone's unique heritage begins to vanish, their unique traditions get watered down, to the point of disappearing, as do their way of life, and their unique facial features.

Why such senselessness?

 

[Slade3200]

Uh, not all racists necessarily hate, or are filled with emotion.

Rushton was a prime example of a very logical, calculated racist

Either way, call it emotion or call it calculation, you are still trying to impose your will on a society that has outright rejected your values for decades. We had a war over it, we've pass laws that combat your values. You are swimming against the tide on this one. You can keep swimming but the current is only going to get strong... Seems like your best options are to learn to swim with the current or find a new river to swim in. But if you're happy knowing you are never going to get anywhere then by all means stay right where you are at.

The U.S had a war over racism?

You mean the U.S had Lincoln who said he'd deport every Negro to save the Union?

The fact is both sides were racist, in the strict sense of believing Blacks were racially inferior.
It's just the Confederacy were idiots who put multiculturalism Black slavery profits, over their White heritage, bringing in the Black issue to the U.S in the first place.

I didn't say the civil war was over racism. It was about Freedom. The North wanted to eradicate slavery and the south wanted to keep it and maintain their "states rights". In the end freedom prevailed. It was followed by many years of turbulent times as we adjusted but our laws have moved for hundreds of years towards equality and multiculturalism. So I'll say again, you are in the wrong country.

 

[Slade3200]

He was the one calling people idiots and insulting the intelligence of people based on their race.

What evidence do you have of racial equality of intelligence, though?

For example, if we used tired old arguments of Colonialism, or Socialism causing the Third-World condition.

How come Estonia was colonized for nearly 1,000 years, and Communist for more than 50 years, but has bounced back as Europe's leader in educational PISA scores?

Yes, in the most recent PISA scores, Estonia has not just become Europe's leader in PISA scores, but one of the leaders of the World in PISA scores.

By Liberal logic, this should be impossible, Estonia should be way behind.

And Asian countries test higher than Estonia... All this is besides the point. If you want to engineer a society for intellect then why not test the IQ of people before letting them mate instead of using it as an indirect justification for racial division?

I support boasting intellect, and also unique, and diverse peoples of this World.

It sounds like you hate diversity, you don't want racial diversity, but rather all to become one blob.

I don't agree with you.

I think that mixing actually waters down the intensity of Humanity.

If you hyper concentrate intelligent people together, and then mix those hyper concentrated intelligent people with people of low intelligence, you just end up mostly with a people intermediate.

I see no benefit to that.

Furthermore, I think unique heritages of all sorts deserve preservation.

Why should we eradicate peoples unique cultural traditions, their ways of life, and their unique phenotype features?

For what?

Diversity exists everywhere. Look at you and I. We are both white americans and we obviously are on total opposite sides of the spectrum. You ask why should we eradicate peoples unique traditions? My answer is we don't need to. If people want to keep their traditions and culture then they are free to do so. If they want to forget them and experience other cultures then they are free to do that. The key word there is freedom. You seem to want to limit freedom for some fake goal of maintaining diversity and intelligence. Again i'll ask now for the 5th time, if you want to preserve intelligence then why don't you IQ test people to live in your society and cast the dumb ones out? Build walls that only the rich or the smart or the beautiful can live within and let the other bottom dwellers live outside. There is a move called In Time that takes place in a society divided by class. It's in those close minded and controlled societies that humanities ugliness really starts to come out. Thankfully, it's been rejected in this country. You seem to have a hard time understanding that.

I happen to think it's sad when anyone's unique heritage begins to vanish, their unique traditions get watered down, to the point of disappearing, as do their way of life, and their unique facial features.

Why such senselessness?

Perhaps they are keeping and progressing the elements of their heritage that they find sacred while carving their own path and adding to it through becoming more worldly and cultured. To each their own. Everybody has the right to live how they want to, its all about perspective. Why are you so concerned about what others do?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Maybe it was effective for the transition after the war or after the war vets died but we are way beyond that now. Nothing wrong with moving on and honoring figures that better represent the values of our country and our people if that is their will. You also can't deny that many of these symbols had the intent of rebelling against the government and served as reminders to blacks that they are not accepted as equals. If that's determined to be the case don't you think it makes sense to removes those from the public arena?

I don't see them as symbols of "putting the black man down". They are part of history and our collective past. To just remove them on a whim because of butt hurt shows the decline of our society.

Remove them on a whim? Why do you inject these little falsehoods? There has been debate about specific statues in specific communities for months now. Would you concede the point that the confederate flag was a divisive symbol and that's why Nikki Haley, Trump, and many other Americans supported taking it down?

Statues up for over a century being pulled down after a few months of butt hurt is a "whim".

There is a difference between a flag on a capitol building and a monument to the dead that has been there 4x as long as most of the butt hurt protesters have been alive.

You notice I don't bitch about the battle flag, don't you?

What should be done is the stars and bars should be flown randomly around. Most of the morons protesting this stuff don't know that was the actual confederate flag.

You didn't answer my question Marty: Would you concede the point that the confederate flag was a divisive symbol and that's why Nikki Haley, Trump, and many other Americans supported taking it down?

I can be taken as a divisive symbol by SOME people.

And now I have a question for you, should the most easily offended people in our society get to decide what is shown in public or not?

God forbid that we actually decide things by a vote that gives everyone a voice, rather than deciding them by having a bunch of violent whiners breaking the law.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You didn't answer my question Marty: Would you concede the point that the confederate flag was a divisive symbol and that's why Nikki Haley, Trump, and many other Americans supported taking it down?

I can be taken as a divisive symbol by SOME people.

And now I have a question for you, should the most easily offended people in our society get to decide what is shown in public or not?

Their voices should be heard and considered. I'd hope our people could be open minded and sympathetic and make the right call given the situation and not always respond by telling them to toughen up.

I watch Dukes of Hazard when I was a kid and I love cars. The General Lee was the car they drove in that show, if you don't know it... And it had a big confederate flag painted on the roof. I never thought twice about it. For me it was just a bad ass car. But when I got older, I learned about the civil war, the confederacy, and most importantly the effects that still persist today in the south with racism towards blacks. I learned about Jim Crow and I heard with my own ears the thickness of modern day racism in the south. It isn't something that died decades ago. When hateful people lean on these symbols from the past to represent and empower their hate and racism then I no longer have tolerance for them. When I see a black person stare at the ground as the pass under a confederate flag or a statue of a glorified confederate general, I just know that something wrong is happening.

They can be heard and considered, but for some reason they get all butt hurt when after this their positions are rejected.

People need to man up a bit and stop being such pussies.

Wow, big surprise that you would say that. There are always going to be the overdramatic that keep pushing. Just like there will always be the hard headed "tough" guys that won't give an inch. The vast majority of this country lives in the middle and is capable of reasonable debate and decision making. How about we focus on those and stop bitching about the wingnuts to try and make our points stronger and demonize everybody that sympathizes with elements of that side.

I'm sorry but to me it's the truth. People complain that this offends, them, that offends them, this person won't bake a cake for them, this guy's microaggression has upset me, that girl is fat shaming that other girl, then that woman feels shamed by other women because she lost her baby belly in 3 weeks by working out just as hard as she did before she got pregnant. Everyone is offended, all the time. It used to be the purview of the social right to get butt hurt over things on TV or radio or said in the town square, Now the Left has taken over the puritanical need to never see anything that offends them,ever. And if they do, god help the person responsible because some government agency will be on your ass so fast the fine will leave a burn mark.

It really doesn't occur to leftists that their hurt feelings are not only not illegal, they're also supremely unimportant to the vast majority of people.

 

[Slyhunter]

We should be able to relate then!

I strongly disagree with racism, sexism and abuse of power. I think my OP shows a promotion and acceptance of free speech and people's right to hold whatever opinions they want. But I also believe that when those ideas get promoted to the public then the public has a right to push back. In my case I feel a moral obligation to speak up against such hate. Not to shut them down from talking but to expose the flaws in their logic. I've had a pretty rationale conversation with this guy, I've asked him questions, given him plenty of opportunities to make a sound arguement, which he has failed miserably at in my opinion. That's what debate it all about. I'd rather expose his agenda as hate filled emotion instead of calling him names and telling him to shut up

True, but I'm willing to bet that he feels as strongly about his views as you do about yours. I think that all the name calling and accusations are very counter productive. You can't change minds and hearts with negativity. As soon as you start with that, they will just tune you out and stop listening to anything you say no matter how much sense it makes. I suppose we all get frustrated though, when talking about such hot button topics.

He was the one calling people idiots and insulting the intelligence of people based on their race.

What evidence do you have of racial equality of intelligence, though?

For example, if we used tired old arguments of Colonialism, or Socialism causing the Third-World condition.

How come Estonia was colonized for nearly 1,000 years, and Communist for more than 50 years, but has bounced back as Europe's leader in educational PISA scores?

Yes, in the most recent PISA scores, Estonia has not just become Europe's leader in PISA scores, but one of the leaders of the World in PISA scores.

By Liberal logic, this should be impossible, Estonia should be way behind.

And Asian countries test higher than Estonia... All this is besides the point. If you want to engineer a society for intellect then why not test the IQ of people before letting them mate instead of using it as an indirect justification for racial division?

I support boasting intellect, and also unique, and diverse peoples of this World.

It sounds like you hate diversity, you don't want racial diversity, but rather all to become one blob.

I don't agree with you.

I think that mixing actually waters down the intensity of Humanity.

If you hyper concentrate intelligent people together, and then mix those hyper concentrated intelligent people with people of low intelligence, you just end up mostly with a people intermediate.

I see no benefit to that.

Furthermore, I think unique heritages of all sorts deserve preservation.

Why should we eradicate peoples unique cultural traditions, their ways of life, and their unique phenotype features?

For what?

To evolve a better human.

 

[Slade3200]

I can be taken as a divisive symbol by SOME people.

And now I have a question for you, should the most easily offended people in our society get to decide what is shown in public or not?

Their voices should be heard and considered. I'd hope our people could be open minded and sympathetic and make the right call given the situation and not always respond by telling them to toughen up.

I watch Dukes of Hazard when I was a kid and I love cars. The General Lee was the car they drove in that show, if you don't know it... And it had a big confederate flag painted on the roof. I never thought twice about it. For me it was just a bad ass car. But when I got older, I learned about the civil war, the confederacy, and most importantly the effects that still persist today in the south with racism towards blacks. I learned about Jim Crow and I heard with my own ears the thickness of modern day racism in the south. It isn't something that died decades ago. When hateful people lean on these symbols from the past to represent and empower their hate and racism then I no longer have tolerance for them. When I see a black person stare at the ground as the pass under a confederate flag or a statue of a glorified confederate general, I just know that something wrong is happening.

They can be heard and considered, but for some reason they get all butt hurt when after this their positions are rejected.

People need to man up a bit and stop being such pussies.

Wow, big surprise that you would say that. There are always going to be the overdramatic that keep pushing. Just like there will always be the hard headed "tough" guys that won't give an inch. The vast majority of this country lives in the middle and is capable of reasonable debate and decision making. How about we focus on those and stop bitching about the wingnuts to try and make our points stronger and demonize everybody that sympathizes with elements of that side.

I'm sorry but to me it's the truth. People complain that this offends, them, that offends them, this person won't bake a cake for them, this guy's microaggression has upset me, that girl is fat shaming that other girl, then that woman feels shamed by other women because she lost her baby belly in 3 weeks by working out just as hard as she did before she got pregnant. Everyone is offended, all the time. It used to be the purview of the social right to get butt hurt over things on TV or radio or said in the town square, Now the Left has taken over the puritanical need to never see anything that offends them,ever. And if they do, god help the person responsible because some government agency will be on your ass so fast the fine will leave a burn mark.

It really doesn't occur to leftists that their hurt feelings are not only not illegal, they're also supremely unimportant to the vast majority of people.

Im guessing that I am one of those "leftists" that you are referring to... Care to enlighten me about what specifically you are talking about?

 

[martybegan]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

So leave the statues of racists up?

I guess Progs are breathing easier now knowing that statues of FDR and Wilson and JFK will remain standing, but pissed out of their minds that those of Jefferson and company remain standing.

Every person ever in history had some flaws. Hell, even Jesus (historical or biblical) had flaws, it's what makes us human.

Well, except for Chuck Norris, he isn't human and has no known flaws, because a flaw is a weakness.