"Reasonable" gun control vs "gun nut gun control"

[2aguy]

What about all those other cities where everyone can carry a gun like St. Louis where the wife of Missouri Governor got robbed at gunpoint?

And keep in mind....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN
=======

Crime has been falling everywhere since Bill Clinton was elected. The problem is the murder rate is higher in large cities like New Orleans, Kansas City & St. Louis that don't require permits to CCW or "Shall Issue CCW" than in gun restrictive cities like New York, DC & Chicago.

Chicago allowed CCW in 2014 & now murder rate exploded!

And Detroit...another democrat hell hole.....they increased their concealed carry....and their crime rate went down...

Detroit Police Chief: Crime Going Down Amid Spike in Legal Gun Ownership



The Detroit police chief has called on the law-abiding people of his community to arm themselves.

Now, James Craig says his city has seen a drop in crime of 12%, as Detroit moves lower on the list of America's deadliest cities.

In 2014, the Detroit police department issued more than 1,100 handgun permits, while more than 8,100 guns were registered in the city.

The number of shootings and robberies dropped from 2013. Home invasions are down 17% so far this year, Craig said, following a drop of 38% last year.

Craig noted that in a survey of 1,800 felons, the respondents pointed to "armed citizens" as the thing they were most afraid of.

Craig said his police officers are doing tremendous work, but said that there are more and more incidents in recent years in which a criminal encounters an armed individual.

He said his time working in Maine taught him about the importance of Americans exercising their Second Amendment right and he brought those lessons with him to Detroit two years ago.

"My time in Maine was pivotal for me taking another look at what good Americans who are armed can have on reducing violence," said Craig.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Let us compare California and Vermont, the states with the most and least restrictive gun laws.

California - "Reasonable" gun control
CA gun laws require that:
-All transfers must be through a dealer, thus...
-All transfers undergo a background check
-All transfers undergo a 10-day waiting period (ruled unconstitutional 8/2014)
-All firearms must be registered
-Handgun purchases require a handgun safety certificate-– a permit.that requires training and a test
-Ban on ‘assault weapons’, effective 1 JUN 1989
-Ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds
-Ban on NFA machineguns
-Restrictive "may issue" concealed carry permits
-Restrictive open carry

% of murders in US committed with a firearm: 69.36 (8855/12765)
% of murders in CA committed with a firearm: 69.39 (1304/1879)

% US population in CA: 12.12%
% US murders in CA: 14.71
% US murders with a gun in CA 14.72

Vermont - "Gun nut gun control"
VT gun control law sates:
-No gun owners are licensed
-No firearm must be registered
-No ban on ‘assault weapons’
-No ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds
-No ban on NFA weapons
-Concealed carry legal w/o permit for residents and non-residents
-Open carry legal w/o permit for residents and non-residents

% of murders in US committed with a firearm: 69.36 (8855/12765)
% of murders in VT committed with a firearm: 55.55 (5/9)

% US population in VT: 1.9648%
% US murders in VT: 0.075%
% US murders with a gun in VT 0.059%

Short version:
CA has far more restrictive gun control than Vermont
Per-capita gun-related murder in CA significantly higher than the the US as a whole
Per-capita gun-related murder in VT significantly lower than the US as a whole.

How can this be?

Most murders happen in large cities. CA is loaded with big cities, VT has no big cities. Pretty silly to even compare the two.

which is why the rate per 100,000 is a better comparison point

 

[2aguy]

What about all those other cities where everyone can carry a gun like St. Louis where the wife of Missouri Governor got robbed at gunpoint?

And keep in mind....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN
=======

Crime has been falling everywhere since Bill Clinton was elected. The problem is the murder rate is higher in large cities like New Orleans, Kansas City & St. Louis that don't require permits to CCW or "Shall Issue CCW" than in gun restrictive cities like New York, DC & Chicago.

Chicago allowed CCW in 2014 & now murder rate exploded!

And Florida....the home of the concealed carry movement back in the 1990s....?

Crime rate drops in Florida but goes up in Broward and Palm Beach counties

lorida’s crime rate dropped to its lowest point in 46 years, but crimes in Broward and Palm Beach counties increased in 2016, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

The Sunshine State’s crime rate dropped 4.4 percent in 2016, while Broward’s went up 1.6 percent and Palm Beach County’s went up 2.2 percent.

The rate includes murder, forcible sex offenses, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny and motor vehicle theft. Each county compiles crime statistics from its local police departments to send to FDLE.
------
The crime rate in Miami-Dade County dropped 4.1 percent.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Vermont, with the least restrictive gun laws in the US...

Murder rate: 0.47/100k
Gun related murder rate: 0.26/100k

Please compare this to the rest of the Western world.

They don't have a single large city. No intelligent person would compare it to CA or any state with large cities. Your OP is a joke.

it doesn't matter when rate per capita is used.

 

[JimBowie1958]

"Reasonable gun control" should mean 1) hitting the target, and 2) keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.

Everything other than that is bullshit.

 

[KissMy]

What about all those other cities where everyone can carry a gun like St. Louis where the wife of Missouri Governor got robbed at gunpoint?

And keep in mind....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN
=======

Crime has been falling everywhere since Bill Clinton was elected. The problem is the murder rate is higher in large cities like New Orleans, Kansas City & St. Louis that don't require permits to CCW or "Shall Issue CCW" than in gun restrictive cities like New York, DC & Chicago.

Chicago allowed CCW in 2014 & now murder rate exploded!

And notice....the increase began in 2014after the Ferguson police shooting.......democrats decided it was a smart move to attack police than to arrest and lock up criminals....

Chicago, which you name...is short 2,000 police officers. 1,000 because they spend money on everything except more police, and another 1,000 because of vacations and sick leave. They are down 2,000 effective officers. Then, on top of that, they attacked their police with left wing social justice warriors....the democrat politicians allowed the ACLU to dictate police policy......they now have so much paperwork per stop that those stops have been reduced. Then you have the attacks on police themselves by SWJ warriors and the police non emergency contacts have gone down 80%.....then you look at the catch and release policy of Chicago prosecutors and judges, where being a repeat gun offender gets you out of jail in less than 2 years......instead of 30 years....

Add to that the fact that gangs control many of the cities aldermen....and then these pet aldermen vote down more police patrols, more police resources in the high crime areas, and use the influence of the aldermen to get their shooters out on bail....

That is why Chicago has the high gun crime rate, not normal, law abiding people who go through 16 hours of training and pay hundreds of dollars just to exercise their 2nd Amendment Right...

Please do some research...it would help your posts...

You are clueless & full of Fake News!

Ferguson, St. Louis County voters re-elected prosecutor Bob McCulloch by a 95%+ landslide because he refused to prosecute officer Wilson for killing Michael Brown & prosecuted the Ferguson Rioters. Even 80%+ of Black Democrats voted for him 3 months after the shooting & riots.

On top of that Missouri got rid of the governor who didn't crush the rioters. Now St Louis has 200 more cops!

 

[koshergrl]

What about all those other cities where everyone can carry a gun like St. Louis where the wife of Missouri Governor got robbed at gunpoint?

And keep in mind....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN
=======

Crime has been falling everywhere since Bill Clinton was elected. The problem is the murder rate is higher in large cities like New Orleans, Kansas City & St. Louis that don't require permits to CCW or "Shall Issue CCW" than in gun restrictive cities like New York, DC & Chicago.

Chicago allowed CCW in 2014 & now murder rate exploded!

And notice....the increase began in 2014after the Ferguson police shooting.......democrats decided it was a smart move to attack police than to arrest and lock up criminals....

Chicago, which you name...is short 2,000 police officers. 1,000 because they spend money on everything except more police, and another 1,000 because of vacations and sick leave. They are down 2,000 effective officers. Then, on top of that, they attacked their police with left wing social justice warriors....the democrat politicians allowed the ACLU to dictate police policy......they now have so much paperwork per stop that those stops have been reduced. Then you have the attacks on police themselves by SWJ warriors and the police non emergency contacts have gone down 80%.....then you look at the catch and release policy of Chicago prosecutors and judges, where being a repeat gun offender gets you out of jail in less than 2 years......instead of 30 years....

Add to that the fact that gangs control many of the cities aldermen....and then these pet aldermen vote down more police patrols, more police resources in the high crime areas, and use the influence of the aldermen to get their shooters out on bail....

That is why Chicago has the high gun crime rate, not normal, law abiding people who go through 16 hours of training and pay hundreds of dollars just to exercise their 2nd Amendment Right...

Please do some research...it would help your posts...

You are clueless & full of Fake News!

Ferguson, St. Louis County voters re-elected prosecutor Bob McCulloch in a 80%+ landslide because he refused to prosecute officer Wilson for killing Michael Brown & prosecuted the Ferguson Rioters. Even 75%+ of Black Democrats voted for him 3 months after the shooting & riots.

That's because criminals love criminals.

 

[KissMy]

Clinton lowered gun homicide more than any president in history!!! Gun homicide went up under Bush 1 & 2 but down under Clinton & Obama!!!

 

[2aguy]

Clinton lowered gun homicide more than any president in history!!! Gun homicide went up under Bush 1 & 2 but down under Clinton & Obama!!!

And again.
As more Americans bought and owned guns....and now carry them for self defense...the gun crime rate went down 75%, the gun murder rate went down 49%, the violent crime rate went down 72%........

Law abiding people who own and carry guns do not increase the gun crime rate...which destroys the entire argument of you anti gunners....the more guns = more gun crime argument is a lie........

The push for concealed carry took off in Florida in the 1990s...and the crime rates went down......

 

[koshergrl]

Clinton lowered gun homicide more than any president in history!!! Gun homicide went up under Bush 1 & 2 but down under Clinton & Obama!!!

 

[koshergrl]

Clinton lowered gun homicide more than any president in history!!! Gun homicide went up under Bush 1 & 2 but down under Clinton & Obama!!!

Funny how one can manipulate retards by ignoring context. See how it climbed steadily? That is in direct correlation with the application of ever increasing restrictions on gun ownership.

Dumbfuck.

Careful with the Panic: Violent Crime and Gun Crime Are Both Dropping

 

[hjmick]

Vermont, with the least restrictive gun laws in the US...

Murder rate: 0.47/100k
Gun related murder rate: 0.26/100k

Please compare this to the rest of the Western world.

They don't have a single large city. No intelligent person would compare it to CA or any state with large cities. Your OP is a joke.

Vermont, with the least restrictive gun laws in the US...

Murder rate: 0.47/100k
Gun related murder rate: 0.26/100k

Please compare this to the rest of the Western world.

They don't have a single large city. No intelligent person would compare it to CA or any state with large cities. Your OP is a joke.

Your response is a joke.

When working with statistics, city size makes no difference. They are studying the number of murders, killings, whatever per 100,000 people.

That's how smaller towns and states can be labeled "most dangerous" despite having a lower number of murders than say... Chicago. Due to their population size, they might have more murders per 100,000 people than Chicago.

See, let's say a town has 100,000 people. In 2015 let's say they had 15 murders.That's 15 murders per 100,000 people.

Let's next say that a large city has a population of 1,000,000. That's 10 X 100,000 or ten times that of our small town. Now let's say that our larger city has 100 murders. That works out to be 10 murders per 100,000 people. Despite having more total murders, statistically speaking the big city is more safe that the small town.

Got it now?

Perhaps this lesson in statistics will help prevent you from making a fool of yourself again in the future...

 

[koshergrl]

Death cultists use the same kind of stupid reasoning to *prove* abortion is reduced by..yup, abortion. They like to show how abortion rates are dropping since the 90s...

But never mention how abortion rates SKYROCKETED the twenty years prior. when you mention it, THEN they claim that we just *don't know" what the abortion numbers were before legalized back alley abortions. As if we know now, which we don't.

It's all just a game. A game to trick people into disarming themselves, a game to trick people into being *ok* with murder of vulnerable populations.

 

[KissMy]

Clinton lowered gun homicide more than any president in history!!! Gun homicide went up under Bush 1 & 2 but down under Clinton & Obama!!!

And again.
As more Americans bought and owned guns....and now carry them for self defense...the gun crime rate went down 75%, the gun murder rate went down 49%, the violent crime rate went down 72%........

Law abiding people who own and carry guns do not increase the gun crime rate...which destroys the entire argument of you anti gunners....the more guns = more gun crime argument is a lie........

The push for concealed carry took off in Florida in the 1990s...and the crime rates went down......

Dear Idiot - I am not anti gun. I am anti crazies & criminals having guns. That means a public list of people who are not allowed to have weapons just like the registered sex offenders list. That way any citizen can check the list on a smart phone before loaning or selling them a gun. Property owners, gun ranges, etc, can check the list before allowing people to hunt or shoot. Neighbors will know if the al qaeda isis sympathizer is supposed to have that AR15.

 

[koshergrl]

Clinton lowered gun homicide more than any president in history!!! Gun homicide went up under Bush 1 & 2 but down under Clinton & Obama!!!

And again.
As more Americans bought and owned guns....and now carry them for self defense...the gun crime rate went down 75%, the gun murder rate went down 49%, the violent crime rate went down 72%........

Law abiding people who own and carry guns do not increase the gun crime rate...which destroys the entire argument of you anti gunners....the more guns = more gun crime argument is a lie........

The push for concealed carry took off in Florida in the 1990s...and the crime rates went down......

Dear Idiot - I am not anti gun. I am anti crazies & criminals having guns. That means a public list of people who are not allowed to have weapons just like the registered sex offenders list. That way any citizen can check the list on a smart phone before loaning or selling them a gun. Property owners, gun ranges, etc, can check the list before allowing people to hunt or shoot. Neighbors will know if the al qaeda isis sympathizer is supposed to have that AR15.

Yeah whatever. If someone is so scary they have to be prevented from accessing firearms, then they shouldn't be breathing the free air.

I'm all for locking up crazies. Let's start with every person who has ever been diagnosed as bi polar.

 

[KissMy]

More Fake News form Fox News tonight. Tucker Carlson multi part series on MS-13. LOL...

He claimed El Salvador's MS-13 criminal gang spread into the USA. LOL...

MS-13 is an international criminal gang that originated in Los Angeles, California, US under president Ronald Reagan in the 1980s fueled by his CIA importing & pushing drugs to fund wars. The gang later spread to many parts of the continental United States, Canada, Mexico, and Central America, and is active in urban and suburban areas. Most members are ethnically of Central American origin (principally El Salvador).

President Clinton crushed gang violence & lowered violent crime more than any president in history!

Next Tucker Carlson switched to college who did not invite his hate speech friend to speak. He tells a college professor who debated circles around him that she did not believe in debate LOL...

Last week Hannity had Fox News viewers convinced that Trump talking to Russia about sanctions code name "adoptions" was actually about adopting Russian children! LOL... Fox is for suckers!

 

[KissMy]

Clinton lowered gun homicide more than any president in history!!! Gun homicide went up under Bush 1 & 2 but down under Clinton & Obama!!!

And again.
As more Americans bought and owned guns....and now carry them for self defense...the gun crime rate went down 75%, the gun murder rate went down 49%, the violent crime rate went down 72%........

Law abiding people who own and carry guns do not increase the gun crime rate...which destroys the entire argument of you anti gunners....the more guns = more gun crime argument is a lie........

The push for concealed carry took off in Florida in the 1990s...and the crime rates went down......

Dear Idiot - I am not anti gun. I am anti crazies & criminals having guns. That means a public list of people who are not allowed to have weapons just like the registered sex offenders list. That way any citizen can check the list on a smart phone before loaning or selling them a gun. Property owners, gun ranges, etc, can check the list before allowing people to hunt or shoot. Neighbors will know if the al qaeda isis sympathizer is supposed to have that AR15.

Yeah whatever. If someone is so scary they have to be prevented from accessing firearms, then they shouldn't be breathing the free air.

I'm all for locking up crazies. Let's start with every person who has ever been diagnosed as bi polar.

Bullshit! Ronald Reagan let all the crazies go & shut down all the mental institutions. He had them medicated & pushed out into the streets. Then his CIA had them pushing & using drugs to fund war.

 

[Pete7469]

How can this be?

Math and human nature are colluding with the russians to deny regressive policy results.

The shadowy inner Mongolian underground with roots in Ghengis Khan's extreme right wing regime is also involved.

As was foretold in the lost chapters of Brave New World.

 

[koshergrl]

Clinton lowered gun homicide more than any president in history!!! Gun homicide went up under Bush 1 & 2 but down under Clinton & Obama!!!

And again.
As more Americans bought and owned guns....and now carry them for self defense...the gun crime rate went down 75%, the gun murder rate went down 49%, the violent crime rate went down 72%........

Law abiding people who own and carry guns do not increase the gun crime rate...which destroys the entire argument of you anti gunners....the more guns = more gun crime argument is a lie........

The push for concealed carry took off in Florida in the 1990s...and the crime rates went down......

Dear Idiot - I am not anti gun. I am anti crazies & criminals having guns. That means a public list of people who are not allowed to have weapons just like the registered sex offenders list. That way any citizen can check the list on a smart phone before loaning or selling them a gun. Property owners, gun ranges, etc, can check the list before allowing people to hunt or shoot. Neighbors will know if the al qaeda isis sympathizer is supposed to have that AR15.

Yeah whatever. If someone is so scary they have to be prevented from accessing firearms, then they shouldn't be breathing the free air.

I'm all for locking up crazies. Let's start with every person who has ever been diagnosed as bi polar.

Bullshit! Ronald Reagan let all the crazies go & shut down all the mental institutions. He had them medicated & pushed out into the streets. Then his CIA had them pushing & using drugs to fund war.

Actually, the institutions were shut down because the progressives lobbied and said that drugs could control mental illness, and institutions were no longer needed.

You fucking nuts and your god-worship of psycho *mental health professionals* is legendary.

Then once the nuthouses were closed and all the inmates released, they discovered that no, the drugs really don't cure mental illness, and nuts are going to self medicate....so the drug problem increased as well as the homeless problem.

But I think your post pretty much proves you are bi-polar, as I suspected. Yes, I think you, and your bi polar brethren, should be locked up.

 

[koshergrl]

"Overwhelming" support for more background checks not so overwhelming after all - Hot Air