Regret Your Vote Yet?

[NYcarbineer]

Why would a liberal regret not voting for McCain or Romney?

 

[Synthaholic]

Right-Wingers care much more about style than substance. Ronald Reagan & George W. Bush are proof.

Project much?

 

[Synthaholic]

Right-Wingers care much more about style than substance. Ronald Reagan & George W. Bush are proof.

Project much?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Right-Wingers care much more about style than substance. Ronald Reagan & George W. Bush are proof.

Project much?

 

[Pogo]

So the President is supposed to stop everything and mourn? Where is the precedent for that?

Nope.

But he should quite probably avoid flippant and pleasure-seeking activity, a metaphorical 10 seconds after making such a somber announcement.

Right-Wingers care much more about style than substance. Ronald Reagan & George W. Bush are proof.

Project much?

I love the big gold R medallion on the horse. Cue nervous reference to Obamian "narcissism" in five... four... three...

 

[NYcarbineer]

Right-Wingers care much more about style than substance. Ronald Reagan & George W. Bush are proof.

Project much?

they all ride white horses,

 

[Synthaholic]

When was the last time any politician you voted for lived up to your expectations?

Rudy Giuliani

The guy who, after the first World Trade Center bombing, decided to move the NYPD Command & Control . . . TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER?????

Memo Details Objections to Command Center Site

Published: January 26, 2008

The New York Police Department produced a detailed analysis in 1998 opposing plans by the city to locate its emergency command center at the World Trade Center, but the Giuliani administration overrode those objections. The command center later collapsed from damage in the Sept. 11 terrorist attack.

“Seven World Trade Center is a poor choice for the site of a crucial command center for the top leadership of the City of New York,” a panel of police experts, which was aided by the Secret Service, concluded in a confidential Police Department memorandum.

The memorandum, which has not been previously disclosed, cited a number of “significant points of vulnerability.” Those included: the building’s public access, the center’s location on the 23rd floor, a 1,200-gallon diesel fuel supply for its generator, a large garage and delivery bays, the building’s history as a terrorist target, and its placement above and adjacent to a Consolidated Edison substation that provided much of the power for Lower Manhattan.​

 

[candycorn]

Was the OP really expecting someone to post

"dammit, you're right, I shouldn't have voted Obama?"

It's quite obvious that many people ,who are not lunatics on message boards ,regret their vote by the fact that a lower percentage of people approve of him than voted for him.

In November 2012, people considered the previous four years and what the promise of Governor Romeny held and decided it was better to stick with the Status Quo...

A phone interview while you're holding the device to your ear and you have what, 8 seconds to answer, is a fun game to play but Americans knew what they were doing in 2012.

Turns out they made the right choice.

"Turns out they made the right choice."

1.” The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion for the first 42 presidents – #43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic.” Obama said on July 3, 2008, at a campaign event in Fargo, N.D.
Flashback Obama Says Adding 4 Trillion to National Debt Unpatriotic - Fox Nation




Are you nuts????

Bank of China?

That's about 10% of what we borrow. It's a canard.

Both parties are out to lunch fiscally. Anyone making the case that Romney would have been better or McCain would have been better is simply lying to you and to themselves. TO be a partisan douchebag, you have to believe your own crap and that is the common thread amongst them.

The truth is that the President has his hands tied by the opposition party in Congress most of the time with their power to filibuster in the Senate. You elect a Republican and the Dems are going to do the same thing; obstruct, obfuscate, and hinder/harass.

I'm a values voter and Obama's values are pretty much in line with mine; there is no exact fit. Protect a woman's right to choose, have a government that is paying attention to the private sector and fining them when they are not good corporate citizens, and do what you can to stress education and it's a pretty easy choice. The Republicans are anti-woman, pro-business doing whatever they hell they want, and if Texas is any indication...could care less about the youth of the nation.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

When was the last time any politician you voted for lived up to your expectations?

Rudy Giuliani

The guy who, after the first World Trade Center bombing, decided to move the NYPD Command & Control . . . TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER?????

Memo Details Objections to Command Center Site

Published: January 26, 2008

The New York Police Department produced a detailed analysis in 1998 opposing plans by the city to locate its emergency command center at the World Trade Center, but the Giuliani administration overrode those objections. The command center later collapsed from damage in the Sept. 11 terrorist attack.

“Seven World Trade Center is a poor choice for the site of a crucial command center for the top leadership of the City of New York,” a panel of police experts, which was aided by the Secret Service, concluded in a confidential Police Department memorandum.

The memorandum, which has not been previously disclosed, cited a number of “significant points of vulnerability.” Those included: the building’s public access, the center’s location on the 23rd floor, a 1,200-gallon diesel fuel supply for its generator, a large garage and delivery bays, the building’s history as a terrorist target, and its placement above and adjacent to a Consolidated Edison substation that provided much of the power for Lower Manhattan.​

actually it was the emergency command center, but okay...

 

[AmericanGirl05]

When was the last time any politician you voted for lived up to your expectations?

Rudy Giuliani

The guy who, after the first World Trade Center bombing, decided to move the NYPD Command & Control . . . TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER?????

Memo Details Objections to Command Center Site

Published: January 26, 2008

The New York Police Department produced a detailed analysis in 1998 opposing plans by the city to locate its emergency command center at the World Trade Center, but the Giuliani administration overrode those objections. The command center later collapsed from damage in the Sept. 11 terrorist attack.

“Seven World Trade Center is a poor choice for the site of a crucial command center for the top leadership of the City of New York,” a panel of police experts, which was aided by the Secret Service, concluded in a confidential Police Department memorandum.

The memorandum, which has not been previously disclosed, cited a number of “significant points of vulnerability.” Those included: the building’s public access, the center’s location on the 23rd floor, a 1,200-gallon diesel fuel supply for its generator, a large garage and delivery bays, the building’s history as a terrorist target, and its placement above and adjacent to a Consolidated Edison substation that provided much of the power for Lower Manhattan.​

Hindsight.

What about the guy who withdrew all of the troops from Iraq and is now surprised that the Islamic radicals took over?

 

[the professional]

Hindsight.

What about the guy who withdrew all of the troops from Iraq and is now surprised that the Islamic radicals took over?

Interesting, the guy who withdrew all the troops from Iraq was George W. Bush in his December 2008 SOFA which called for standdown of combat troops by 2009 and their total withdrawl by 2011.

Facts aren't on your side.

 

[blackhawk]

Hindsight.

What about the guy who withdrew all of the troops from Iraq and is now surprised that the Islamic radicals took over?

Interesting, the guy who withdrew all the troops from Iraq was George W. Bush in his December 2008 SOFA which called for standdown of combat troops by 2009 and their total withdrawl by 2011.

Facts aren't on your side.

Correct and the guy who failed to work out an extension of that agreement was Barak Obama. The reason he failed to do so in my opinion is because he simply wanted out and was not concerned about the possible downside even though all the military commanders warned him about it. I would also point out when the SOFA agreement extension failed to happen and the troops were coming home Obama took credit for and his supporters praised him for ending a war yet now that the consequences of that have become all to clear it's back to blame Bush.

 

[R.D.]

Hindsight.

What about the guy who withdrew all of the troops from Iraq and is now surprised that the Islamic radicals took over?

Interesting, the guy who withdrew all the troops from Iraq was George W. Bush in his December 2008 SOFA which called for standdown of combat troops by 2009 and their total withdrawl by 2011.

Facts aren't on your side.

But Obama didn't honor the agreement at all.

"As a candidate for president, I pledged to bring the war in Iraq to a responsible end," Obama said. "Shortly after taking office, I announced our new strategy for Iraq and for a transition to full Iraqi responsibility.

"And I made it clear that by August 31st, 2010, America's combat mission in Iraq would end," Obama said. "And that is exactly what we are doing - as promised and on schedule."

On Feb. 27, 2009 -- one month after taking office as president -- Obama in a speech said, "Let me say this as plainly as I can. By August 31, 2010, our combat mission in Iraq will end."

On his campaign Web site, Organizing for America, however, it states that Obama would end the "war responsibly" within 16 months of assuming office, or by roughly May 20, 2010.

 

[the professional]

Correct and the guy who failed to work out an extension of that agreement was Barak Obama. The reason he failed to do so in my opinion is because he simply wanted out and was not concerned about the possible downside even though all the military commanders warned him about it. .

You had Bush and his hand picked Maliki. And the BEST Bush could come up with, with a cut and run by 2011.

You expect Obama who Maliki didn't owe his job to, to get a better deal than Bush could?

Mind if I laugh..... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

 

[frigidweirdo]

1. "As in most prior studies, the three presidents ranked as "Great" are George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin Roosevelt. In this survey, Ronald Reagan joins the group of "Near Great" presidents with Thomas Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt, Andrew Jackson, Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, James Polk, and Woodrow Wilson."

Rating the Presidents of the United States 1789-2000 A Survey of Scholars in History Political Science and Law Publications The Federalist Society

And what defines a great president? Sometimes it's a lot easier to find what makes a bad president. A lot of it is based on perception. When dealing with presidents from an era where everyone's dead you're dealing with History, ie, what has been written, how it's been written and so on, rather than how people based their views at the time.

So while the Bushes Obama, Clinton, Reagan etc have to deal with how people remember them, others have to deal with how historians write about them.


Reagan managed to come out of his presidency with an average to good approval rating, yet has seen his stock rise, probably because of what happened at the end of the Cold War more than anything else.


However what he is being praised for is kind of ridiculous. The Cold War was perfect for the right in America, it provided them everything they needed, the common enemy that needed to be fought that allowed for draconian measures, higher military spending and just the general "we need to be tough on this" sort of attitude that wins Republicans bums on seats. Then it became no more, Clinton had an easy ride. If anything Reagan gave Clinton a great opportunity for a higher approval rating. So why isn't Clinton "great"?
Simpy said he didn't do anything positive that will live in the memory, and isn't this what it's all about? You become a great president not because of all that you did, but because of perhaps one or two things that you did, that people remember.

2. "What did he achieve apart from the highest unemployment rate since the depression (and this still stands)?"


Are you nuts?

Beside saving the world from the Soviet Communists....The benefits from Reaganomics:

1. 1. The economy grew at a 3.4% average rate…compared with 2.9% for the previous eight years, and 2.7% for the next eight.(Table B-4)
   2. Inflation rate dropped from 12.5% to 4.4%. (Table B-63)
   3. Unemployment fell to 5.5% from 7.1% (Table B-35)
   4. Prime interest rate fell by one-third.(Table B-73)
   5. The S & P 500 jumped 124% (Table B-95) FDsys - Browse ERP
   6. Charitable contributions rose 57% faster than inflation. Dinesh D’Souza, “Ronald Reagan: How an Ordinary May Became an Extraordinary Leader,” p. 116

No, not nuts.


The fact that he “saved the world from Communism” isn’t actually a fact, it’s a story. It’s what people say it is, rather than what it was. One man couldn’t possibly hope to take down Communism. He played a part in the downfall, that’s true, but so too did so many other people. Without Gorbachev it simply wouldn’t have happened. Also it was such a long term thing that even Gorbachev can’t be credited with totally.

And again, I point to the fact that for his own party, the end of the Cold War was not a great thing, it was a bad thing. The fact that Bush, in 2001, jumped on the chance to make a common enemy out of Islam and al Qaeda, rather than China who he’d been prodding and poking for a while, and then proceeded to make the US a far more dangerous place, and to invade and do all sorts of things, is a direct action coming from the end of the USSR.

I’m not saying it’s Reagan’s fault that Bush went down such a disastrous path, but he helped.

Yeah, the economy increased. Not hard seeing as it wasn’t in such a great place. Was this because of Reagan or was it because of many other factors that must have played a part? How much of it was due to Carter, say?

Unemployment rate fell, well, not before rising massively to the point where he has the highest unemployment rate post depression. I’m not saying this necessarily because I believe either of them did anything great, just that the impact a policy has on the economy can take a long time to have an impact.

Within a couple of years of him leaving the economy had a downturn, his fault or just the natural rise and fall of capitalism? Did his fall just happen to coincide with a natural fall? Questions that clearly need to be asked because I doubt Reagan had any clue about how the economy worked, certain not enough to be taking credit. Yes, he can be the guy who appoints people and tells them to get on with things.


It’s not abnormal for people to look at presidents in the wrong way, and to ignore a lot of the impact of polices outside of their term of office. Everything here is purely what happened when he was in charge. It’s too simple for me.

And...


3. "During this seven-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third, the equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany, the third-largest in the world at the time, to the U.S. economy. In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years. Nearly 20 million new jobs were created during the recovery, increasing U.S. civilian employment by almost 20%. Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.



Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989, meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just seven years. The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak. The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990, a larger increase than in any previous decade."


Reaganomics Vs. Obamanomics Facts And Figures - Forbes

Yes, the economy grew, how much of that was what happened before? How much of it was because of what happened that Reagan didn’t have anything to do with?

You’ve used a site which compared Obama, from a 2011 perspective and Reagan. Is it so easy to compare? If Reagan had been thrown into an economic crisis as big as Obama was thrown into, and right from the start, what would have happened? Reagan came into an economy that had seen a worsening of the economy but was kind of stable, then by the end of his first year the sheet hit the fan.

Obama was thrown in straight away, he didn’t have a 9 month grace period. After 2 years Reagan was having massive problems with unemployment, far worse than Obama was having even though the economic situation was worse for Obama. However was this anything to do with either of them? Why a higher rise in unemployment for Reagan than Obama? That’s not something I can answer, it’s something I can only speculate on.


If you want to play the “in their term” game then…

Reagan started on 7.5% unemployment and finished on 5.4%, a drop of 2.1%

Obama started on 7.8% unemployment and is currently (as of August) on 6.1%, a drop of 1.7%.

Is it a fair comparison? Well we’ll have to see what happens in January, but at the same time I don’t think it even matters, things are different, the impact of Obama’s policies will not fully be seen for a while.


Reagan, most of all, was probably seen as a great President because he had the charisma to make people like him, but also he got lucky with certain things happening that he might have touched on, and they made him look good. Had they not happened then what?

 

[blackhawk]

Correct and the guy who failed to work out an extension of that agreement was Barak Obama. The reason he failed to do so in my opinion is because he simply wanted out and was not concerned about the possible downside even though all the military commanders warned him about it. .

You had Bush and his hand picked Maliki. And the BEST Bush could come up with, with a cut and run by 2011.

You expect Obama who Maliki didn't owe his job to, to get a better deal than Bush could?

Mind if I laugh..... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I have to give you credit when you can't dispute the facts you go straight for the strawman arguement thanks that does save time in continuing a pointless conversation. I would laugh but your response was far to predictable to be funny.

 

[the professional]

But Obama didn't honor the agreement at all.

"As a candidate for president, I pledged to bring the war in Iraq to a responsible end," Obama said. "Shortly after taking office, I announced our new strategy for Iraq and for a transition to full Iraqi responsibility.

"And I made it clear that by August 31st, 2010, America's combat mission in Iraq would end," Obama.

Let's review the facts

"Withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia"

The withdrawal of U.S. military forces from Iraq began in June 2009 and was completed by December 2011, bringing an end to the Iraq War.

The Bush Administration later sought an agreement with the Iraqi government, and in 2008 George W. Bush signed the U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement. It included a deadline of 31 December 2011, before which "all the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory". The last U.S. troops left Iraq on 18 December 2011,

It looks like Obama uses Bush's timeline, and not the one from his campaign.

Unless you have another set of FACTS, with different withdrawl dates.

 

[the professional]

I have to give you credit when you can't dispute the facts you go straight for the strawman arguement .....

The facts seem to be that Obama campaigned to withdraw the troops by August 2010. Instead withdrawl wasn't completed until Dec 18 2011 in agreement with the SOFA Bush put in place in 2008.

That means that Obama followed Bush's timeline for troop withdrawl over his own.

If there are different FACTS I can't dispute, please point them out.

 

[asaratis]

When was the last time any politician you voted for lived up to your expectations?

Gerald Ford. I predicted he would never be elected.

 

[asaratis]

"Lucifer" -- the ultimate strawman. Too funny.

An attempt at face saving????


You said "...The point sailing blissfully over your pointy little head is that dredging up some obscure writer from decades ago and unilaterally declaring it to be the messiah of your opponent is a juvenile bullshit strawman and an utter failure of logic....


Yet I showed that, as usual, I am absolutely correct.

And it reveals that you've been skewered!

Uh nnnnnoooo... it reveals that you're addicted to strawmen. You've got one strawman using his book to invoke another. Hot strawman-on-strawman action.

I'll pass.

Strawman?

Nah.

Fish.

I hooked you, and reeled you in.

I showed how intimately wedded Alinsky, Obama and Hillary are.

You: "no,no, no......"

Hey, @PoliticalChic !

Pogo's MO includes hasty, unfounded retreats by claiming strawman.