Reid Changing Filibuster Rules

[mudwhistle]

so the phony moderate speaks up again,

I should have known, I actually thought you'd be sensible and see now extreme a move on so many levels this was aside from utterly tactless and harmful to an already fragile balance there has been....but, nope, its congenital....right," this is a good move"...

In other words, at this time, and on this issue, it is your ox that has been gored.

In other other words - there's going to be a lot more ox-goring. 'Cause you know, government needs more power to ram shit through. The pubs are going to love this when they get back in and start appointing judges to undo Roe. vs Wade. Way to go Reidster!

They need to drop Roe v. Wade....

 

[mudwhistle]

Amelia and dblack skirted the matter that we don't have moderates willing in the GOP to work with the Dems.

This is a good move by the Dems.

We Pubs will certainly do it when we get the Senate back. Hopefully, the Dems will have moderates that are willing to work with the Pubs so we don't have this nonsense going on.

If we had been willing to work with the Dems, it would have been 3 judgeships not the 93 that will shape the judicial bench for a lifetime thanks to our intransigence.

so the phony moderate speaks up again,

I should have known, I actually thought you'd be sensible and see now extreme a move on so many levels this was aside from utterly tactless and harmful to an already fragile balance there has been....but, nope, its congenital....right," this is a good move"...

In other words, at this time, and on this issue, it is your ox that has been gored.

In politics, as in other arenas in life, one should pick their fights carefully, not waste time flaring at every imagined pinprick. The GOP choose to filibuster every appointee. They choose to fight every single appointment as a political issue, no matter how apolitical the post. So now the inevitable has happened. A rule change that gives the President the ability to make all of the appointments that he desires. Did you people not see this coming? Are you truly that blind and stupid?

This is just nonsense.

What filibusters are we talking about?

The only one I know of is over Obamacare.

 

[Polk]

so the phony moderate speaks up again,

I should have known, I actually thought you'd be sensible and see now extreme a move on so many levels this was aside from utterly tactless and harmful to an already fragile balance there has been....but, nope, its congenital....right," this is a good move"...

In other words, at this time, and on this issue, it is your ox that has been gored.

In other other words - there's going to be a lot more ox-goring. 'Cause you know, government needs more power to ram shit through. The pubs are going to love this when they get back in and start appointing judges to undo Roe. vs Wade. Way to go Reidster!

Getting rid of Roe would take a SCOTUS decision. Do you really think the Republicans would appoint someone pro-choice to the Supreme Court?

 

[ShawnChris13]

This change makes the senate nothing but an extension of the house. The senate was supposed to be a higher body that moved more slowly and carefully.



This change is bad for the future of the USA.

Even with this change, the Senate is not "an extension of the House". It's still a body that gives disproportionate weight to trees and rocks over people.

These changes bode ill for the future of our congressional process. Escalation is bound to occur. Regardless of the differences between the House and the Senate these changes are the gloves being taken off. Once the Senate throws that first bare knuckle punch Boehner is going to start pondering what next step he can take for the House. At least in my own doomsday mind set that this situation has put is in. My nerd brain sees Palpatine from Star Wars cackling as he is granted Emergency Powers over the galaxy. (Melodramatic but I see only bad things coming)

 

[mudwhistle]

In other words, at this time, and on this issue, it is your ox that has been gored.

In other other words - there's going to be a lot more ox-goring. 'Cause you know, government needs more power to ram shit through. The pubs are going to love this when they get back in and start appointing judges to undo Roe. vs Wade. Way to go Reidster!

Getting rid of Roe would take a SCOTUS decision. Do you really think the Republicans would appoint someone pro-choice to the Supreme Court?

Harry Reid would filibuster that.....

 

[dblack]

In other words, at this time, and on this issue, it is your ox that has been gored.

In other other words - there's going to be a lot more ox-goring. 'Cause you know, government needs more power to ram shit through. The pubs are going to love this when they get back in and start appointing judges to undo Roe. vs Wade. Way to go Reidster!

Getting rid of Roe would take a SCOTUS decision. Do you really think the Republicans would appoint someone pro-choice to the Supreme Court?

Not when you look at the tactics of the 'Personhood' movement. They're working 'around' Roe.vs Wade and all the other judgeships will have a huge impact. We'll see. But in general, I favor gridlock whenever and however we can get it.

 

[Redfish]

This change makes the senate nothing but an extension of the house. The senate was supposed to be a higher body that moved more slowly and carefully.

This change is bad for the future of the USA.

Even with this change, the Senate is not "an extension of the House". It's still a body that gives disproportionate weight to trees and rocks over people.

If 51 senators can make law, then we might as well merge the house and the senate.

 

[Jarhead]

This change makes the senate nothing but an extension of the house. The senate was supposed to be a higher body that moved more slowly and carefully.

This change is bad for the future of the USA.

Even with this change, the Senate is not "an extension of the House". It's still a body that gives disproportionate weight to trees and rocks over people.

If 51 senators can make law, then we might as well merge the house and the senate.

Exactly.
The senate is no longer what it was to our government.
It is no different than a smaller house.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Reid did it to Bush and now he doesn't like it being done to Barry. Ever hear of the phrase "litmus test"?



But this is predictable.

Democrats have to get their way or they just go around the rules.

Except Reid didn't do it to Bush. Only a certain subset of nominees were blocked under Bush. All nominees have been blocked by this process.

So that is the justification? And not all nominees were blocked in the process. That's simply a lie. Right now, democrats have made the executive decision in the senate that they are th arbitrator on how much the use of the minority tool is too much. And have, without bipartisan support, without procedural debate, have changed the rules of the senate in order to get their agenda done under Obama.

Whether or not I agree with the republicans blocking appointments or not, what the democrats int eh senate just did, beyond the cold hard fact of being complete hypocrites, is they put forth the new mode of majority rule andhave removed much of the voice of the minority.

And they will regret this very much. it was a shameful tactic that they were against when it would have hindered them from blocking appointments, and now they want to use it for their own power grab.

Purely shameful.

 

[Amelia]

Amelia and dblack skirted the matter that we don't have moderates willing in the GOP to work with the Dems.

This is a good move by the Dems.

We Pubs will certainly do it when we get the Senate back. Hopefully, the Dems will have moderates that are willing to work with the Pubs so we don't have this nonsense going on.

If we had been willing to work with the Dems, it would have been 3 judgeships not the 93 that will shape the judicial bench for a lifetime thanks to our intransigence.

You skirted the matter that Democrats didn't lead well enough to get the majority of Americans on board with their proposals.

It is not moderate to support incompetent and deceptive comprehensive legislation filled with negative consequences, foreseen and unforeseen, which can only be passed and supported at large by telling lies about it.

Democrats were hostile to Republicans. Democrats refused to embrace civility or collegiality. They've been going nuclear for the past several years instead of following the advice of even centrist liberals such as Joe Lieberman. Forget about centrist Republicans, the only way they could hold onto their own caucus was by armtwisting and lying. That is not good leadership.

Democrats do tricks like get the courts to call the mandate a tax when Obama swore it wasn't and they think that Republicans should support even farther left appointments who will help them play semantic games to pervert the clear traditional meanings of the language citizens rely on when they try to communicate with their representatives?

Obama's presidency was poisoned by lies and by people who decided it was preferable to call dissent racist than to examine the possibility that if they took on so much that they had to lie about it, perhaps they were not approaching governance correctly.

The present exercise of the nuclear option was the action of a desperate leader who wanted to change the channel on the obamacare news. A leader who has now on multiple occasions relinquished Senate power which he fought tooth and nail to preserve while Bush was President -- on at least one occasion relinquishing the power in a manner which has now been deemed unconstitutional (the occasion when he did not protest against Obama unilaterally declaring the Senate in recess).

It's been interesting to engage with you again briefly, but when we reach the point that you cover your lack of content by accusing me of not addressing issues, I recognize the signs that it's time to start looking for an offramp from the roundabout. Have a great weekend.

 

[Amelia]

so the phony moderate speaks up again,

I should have known, I actually thought you'd be sensible and see now extreme a move on so many levels this was aside from utterly tactless and harmful to an already fragile balance there has been....but, nope, its congenital....right," this is a good move"...

In other words, at this time, and on this issue, it is your ox that has been gored.

In other other words - there's going to be a lot more ox-goring. 'Cause you know, government needs more power to ram shit through. The pubs are going to love this when they get back in and start appointing judges to undo Roe. vs Wade. Way to go Reidster!

Thanks for what may be the perfect example to use to wake up the people on the left to the ramifications of what just happened.

Of course, that's also what politicians on the left will use to campaign on. "You don't want Republicans to use this new express pass to push through anti-abortion judges. So you have to let us keep pushing through our ideological appointees no matter how insane they are."

 

[mamooth]

So that is the justification?

Well yes, truth is justification.

Wer'e not hypocrites. You Republicans are just liars. The Democrats didn't behave nearly as badly, and only liars claim they did. Until you can start admitting the truth, there's little point in speaking with you.

Right now, democrats have made the executive decision in the senate that they are th arbitrator on how much the use of the minority tool is too much. And have, without bipartisan support, without procedural debate, have changed the rules of the senate in order to get their agenda done under Obama.

Yep. Quit acting like "majority rule" is tyranny. It makes you look insane.

And instead of the partisan asshattery, you might try acting like grownups. Take reasonable positions that can peel off Democrats and get a majority. However, if you feel your side is incapable of such maturity, I can see where you have a problem. Your "My way or the highway" philosophy doesn't really work if you're the minority. In contrast, if the Republicans took the majority, it would be easy for the moderate Democrats to peel off a few Republicans and get a majority, which is why the Democrats aren't worried about turnabout.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Well yes, truth is justification.

Truth doesn't equate to justification, moron.

Wer'e not hypocriters. You Republicans are just liars.

So democrats were for the nuclear option when they were obstructing Bush appointees? Is that the story you're sticking to?

The Democrats didn't behave nearly as badly, and only liars claim they did. Until you can start admitting the truth, there's little point in speaking with you.

You, nor the democrats, get the exclusive right to decide who acted badly when it comes to using the rules in teh sneate. Democrats are just as guilty of obstruction appoiinttments as republicans. Yet you grant yourselves the power to take away minority voice. You're now claiming moral and ethical authority on who acted worse. Which is typical of the LOLberal mentality.

Yep. Quit acting like "majority rule" is tyranny. It makes you look insane

majority rule is tyranny for the minority. Which is why democracy always collapse under their own weight. The only insane ones here are the ones who didnt pay attentiont o history and keep spewing such nonsense about majority rule.

And instead of the partisan asshattery, you might try acting like grownups. Take reasonable positions that can peel off Democrats and get a majority. However, if you feel your side is incapable of such maturity, I can see where you have a problem. Your "My way or the highway" philosophy doesn't really work if you're the minority. In contrast, if the Republicans took the majority, it would be easy for the moderate Democrats to peel off a few Republicans and get a majority, which is why the Democrats aren't worried about turnabout.

Say what you will, Dullard, but democrats will certainly come to regret this move. Chump.

 

[mamooth]

You skirted the matter that Democrats didn't lead well enough to get the majority of Americans on board with their proposals.

I guess we just imagined the Democrats winning the presidency and senate by wide margins, not to mention a majority of votes for house candidates.

Democrats were hostile to Republicans. Democrats refused to embrace civility or collegiality.

If you actually believe such nonsense, you're brainwashed beyond any hope of redemption. All you know is "Dems evil, Reps good", and you can't process any info that says different.

They've been going nuclear for the past several years instead of following the advice of even centrist liberals such as Joe Lieberman.

Lieberman was a lying weasel. He'd backstab the Dems over and over at the committee level, then go with them on meaningless predetermined final votes and pretend to be a loyal Democrat. If that serpent had still been around to poison the process, Reid never could have pulled the trigger.

 

[Amelia]

So that is the justification?

Well yes, truth is justification.

Wer'e not hypocriters. You Republicans are just liars. The Democrats didn't behave nearly as badly, and only liars claim they did. Until you can start admitting the truth, there's little point in speaking with you.

Right now, democrats have made the executive decision in the senate that they are th arbitrator on how much the use of the minority tool is too much. And have, without bipartisan support, without procedural debate, have changed the rules of the senate in order to get their agenda done under Obama.

Yep. Quit acting like "majority rule" is tyranny. It makes you look insane.

And instead of the partisan asshattery, you might try acting like grownups. Take reasonable positions that can peel off Democrats and get a majority. However, if you feel your side is incapable of such maturity, I can see where you have a problem. Your "My way or the highway" philosophy doesn't really work if you're the minority. In contrast, if the Republicans took the majority, it would be easy for the moderate Democrats to peel off a few Republicans and get a majority, which is why the Democrats aren't worried about turnabout.

Yeah, the Democrats are so good at peeling off Republicans that they had to go the nuclear option rather than use their leadership skills to get enough Republicans on board with them to pass all the appointments they wanted. (Accepting for the sake of argument that it was actually a lack of confirmations which caused this extraordinary action, instead of what it actually was.)

Republicans will no more vote against their president's nominees than Democrats will.

When the senate leader and the president are of the same party, presidential appointments will now sail through with a rubber stamp at each now-purely-ceremonial round of the confirmation process.

Harry Reid nuked the "advice" portion of the Senate's "advice and consent" responsibilities.

 

[Amelia]

You skirted the matter that Democrats didn't lead well enough to get the majority of Americans on board with their proposals.

I guess we just imagined the Democrats winning the presidency and senate by wide margins, not to mention a majority of votes for house candidates.

Democrats were hostile to Republicans. Democrats refused to embrace civility or collegiality.

If you actually believe such nonsense, you're brainwashed beyond any hope of redemption. All you know is "Dems evil, Reps good", and you can't process any info that says different.

They've been going nuclear for the past several years instead of following the advice of even centrist liberals such as Joe Lieberman.

Lieberman was a lying weasel. He'd backstab the Dems over and over at the committee level, then go with them on meaningless predetermined final votes and pretend to be a loyal Democrat. If that serpent had still been around to poison the process, Reid never could have pulled the trigger.

An election win is not a mandate on every piece of legislation. Democrats were so overreaching and offensive that they squandered their mandate. When national opinion is so much against legislation that Massachusetts sends a Republican to the Senate to stop the legislation, something is wrong with the approach legislators took in crafting it and something is especially wrong with the mindset which says, "let's push this through even though we know how unpopular it is".

How cute. With scorn like that for Lieberman you think the Democrats have what it take to convince Republicans to break from their party when Democrats are in the minority?

If Reid had an ounce of honesty, he could never have pulled the trigger. But if he had an ounce of honesty, Democrats wouldn't be in the position where they needed to pull the trigger.

Democrats are circling the drain and have moved to banana republic tactics.

 

[mamooth]

So democrats were for the nuclear option when they were obstructing Bush appointees? Is that the story you're sticking to?

Nope. You might want to address what I say, instead of what you wish I'd said. Though I doubt you're capable of it.

You, nor the democrats, get the exclusive right to decide who acted badly when it comes to using the rules in the senate.

Of course not. The Republicans also had that right. After all, they got to vote on it too. And nobody is silencing the minority voice, since Republicans are still free to talk. A lot of you seem to confuse "not doing what the minority wants" with "silencing the minority".

Now, if you don't like the rules change, win some elections, or take some moderate positions that can peel off some Democrats. Again, try acting like grownups instead of dictators. You don't see the Democrats fretting here, because we do act like grownups, so the rule change can't come back and bite us.

 

[JakeStarkey]

What Threat?.. It's really not my style.

Obama is filling the courts with plenty of leftists. There has to be some reasonable judges..... they can't all be leftists and in many cases they're not even required..

The reason Reid needs to act now on this is because Republicans have denied 3 confirmation hearings in 3 weeks. Don't you think that is just a little irresponsible?

Obama has already stacked the courts in the leftist direction, be reasonable , a balanced Judiciary is best for America. Obama could consider less activist judges.

Of course it is, and of course Obama has appointed his folks as did Bush or Clinton or Nixon or whomever. I am not sure that "reasonable" is in the lexicon for either party.

But . . . I think an elected president should be able to make lower court and executive appointments that he wants.

We in the GOP will catch up when we take the Senate.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Amelia and dblack skirted the matter that we don't have moderates willing in the GOP to work with the Dems.

This is a good move by the Dems.

We Pubs will certainly do it when we get the Senate back. Hopefully, the Dems will have moderates that are willing to work with the Pubs so we don't have this nonsense going on.

If we had been willing to work with the Dems, it would have been 3 judgeships not the 93 that will shape the judicial bench for a lifetime thanks to our intransigence.

so the phony moderate speaks up again,

I should have known, I actually thought you'd be sensible and see now extreme a move on so many levels this was aside from utterly tactless and harmful to an already fragile balance there has been....but, nope, its congenital....right," this is a good move"...

That you can't stand moderation in the GOP is your problem, Trajan, only. Government has to work. We will get ours back when we take power.

The issue remains the extremes of both parties: they have to be broken.

 

[Dot Com]

Amelia and dblack skirted the matter that we don't have moderates willing in the GOP to work with the Dems.

This is a good move by the Dems.

We Pubs will certainly do it when we get the Senate back. Hopefully, the Dems will have moderates that are willing to work with the Pubs so we don't have this nonsense going on.

If we had been willing to work with the Dems, it would have been 3 judgeships not the 93 that will shape the judicial bench for a lifetime thanks to our intransigence.

so the phony moderate speaks up again,

I should have known, I actually thought you'd be sensible and see now extreme a move on so many levels this was aside from utterly tactless and harmful to an already fragile balance there has been....but, nope, its congenital....right," this is a good move"...

That you can't stand moderation in the GOP is your problem, Trajan, only. Government has to work. We will get ours back when we take power.

The issue remains the extremes of both parties: they have to be broken.

Big Business WILL NOT be supporting Teepee'rs this time around either (I have a thread about that). That might help you people in the candidate arena.