Reid Changing Filibuster Rules

[longknife]

Okay for Dem but not Repubs

FLASHBACK: When Conservatives Decried Filibusters And Urged Senate Majority Leader To Use Nuclear Option

A most interesting article that shows the outright hypocrisy of the Dems @ FLASHBACK: When Conservatives Decried Filibusters And Urged Senate Majority Leader To Use Nuclear Option | Research | Media Matters for America

 

[dblack]

so the phony moderate speaks up again,

I should have known, I actually thought you'd be sensible and see now extreme a move on so many levels this was aside from utterly tactless and harmful to an already fragile balance there has been....but, nope, its congenital....right," this is a good move"...

That you can't stand moderation in the GOP is your problem, Trajan, only. Government has to work. We will get ours back when we take power.

The issue remains the extremes of both parties: they have to be broken.

Big Business WILL NOT be supporting Teepee'rs this time around either. That might help you people in the candidate arena.

Corporatism, über alles.

 

[JohnL.Burke]

The nuclear option is an attempt to keep the democratic base together. It's a poor attempt, but an attempt none the less. For those of us who are poker players I am reminded of the word "tilt". Tilt is when a gambler starts chasing good money after bad. A gambler who has lost his concentration and now bets every hand in a futile attempt to get his money back. Tilting is a form of intense self-destructive desperation. To pull a hyper partisan EXTRAORDINARILY hypocritical stunt like this as an attempt to change headlines away from Obamacare for a day or two while throwing crumbs to the base (even though this stunt is of course going to backfire eventually) is obviously a type of tilting. Obama , Reid and Pelosi are "tilting" in a titanic and clownish manner.

 

[Article 15]

No need to worry guys. I'm sure that everyone in the GOP who was for this before they were against it will stick to their new found principles and restore this portion of the filibuster rules should they retake the Senate. And if they don't, surely the USMB Right Wing Nut Brigade will lose their shit over it like they have over the last 24 hours.

 

[mamooth]

Yep, both sides have gone back and forth. That's not the issue. Politicians change their positions when politically convenient.

The issue is who abused filibusters to the extent that change became necessary. And that's what some people don't want to talk about.

Prior to Obama, filibusters were fewer in number, and at least cited some justification concerning the qualifications of the nominee. Might have been a weak justification, but at least they tried.

After Obama, that changed. Even if everyone agreed the nominee was a perfect candidate, the nominee was still filibustered, solely because Obama nominated him. That hadn't happened before, and was the straw that broke the camel's back.

The Republicans were trying to outflank the Constitution, removing the President's power to make appointments. In defense of the Constitution, the filibuster had to be removed for appointments. It also should have been removed for SC justices, for consistency. Filibustering legislation, that's not a constitutional issue, as doing so isn't violating the Constitution.

 

[Dot Com]

This great nation's senate used to govern & use filibusters rarely. In only the last 20 yrs, it has more often filibustered & governed rarely. Filibusters weren't designed to be a primary governing tool. Now maybe we can return to our greatness.

Green eggs & ham

 

[Trajan]

Amelia and dblack skirted the matter that we don't have moderates willing in the GOP to work with the Dems.

This is a good move by the Dems.

We Pubs will certainly do it when we get the Senate back. Hopefully, the Dems will have moderates that are willing to work with the Pubs so we don't have this nonsense going on.

If we had been willing to work with the Dems, it would have been 3 judgeships not the 93 that will shape the judicial bench for a lifetime thanks to our intransigence.

so the phony moderate speaks up again,

I should have known, I actually thought you'd be sensible and see now extreme a move on so many levels this was aside from utterly tactless and harmful to an already fragile balance there has been....but, nope, its congenital....right," this is a good move"...

In other words, at this time, and on this issue, it is your ox that has been gored.

In politics, as in other arenas in life, one should pick their fights carefully, not waste time flaring at every imagined pinprick. The GOP choose to filibuster every appointee. They choose to fight every single appointment as a political issue, no matter how apolitical the post. So now the inevitable has happened. A rule change that gives the President the ability to make all of the appointments that he desires. Did you people not see this coming? Are you truly that blind and stupid?

uh huh....... my ox isn't being gored becasue I never wanted Frist et al to use the nuclear option either, the senate is designed the way it was with the filibuster ala 1792/1806 for a reason, and the differences in chambers is on purpose.

theres a reason why a state like Wyoming with 1 million people have just as many senators as say California with over 30 million? 6 year term...See how that works? It was never intended to be a majority house, it is not a populist chamber.


the house is, a MAJORITY chamber, a populist chamber by design ......


considering being blind and stupid is a majority that is such a mess they cannot find their way out except by turning the very screws , solitude and going their own one party way, even harder. The dems went your own way on obamacare and?

If they had had 10 gop senators and 50 or so house gopers in on obamacare, Obamas hand would be infinitely stronger...but in his won words;" I won"...well, there ya go.

You know what Joe Lewis said...you can run but you can't hide.....

If this was intended as a distraction it was stupid, and you've blown the comity/community card, no one, even the average half wit half way intelligent voter thinks that there will be or even should be anything left now of cooperation etc, in either endeavors, bills etc.

...you cannot stomp someones guts like you did with that big Fuck you with obamacare and then expect them to cooperate.....well, I take that back, it appears you are one of those deluded ones that thinks like Jake= faux moderators that the gop should help mend obamacare.....

Oh and you're "they fought every nominee" is bullshit, the least you could do is go and rad some thing other than think progress

oh and just as an exit remark;

obama said alito has " training and qualifications necessary to serve" and an "an intelligent man, accomplishment jurist", of great character...yet he voted to filibuster him...

 

[Article 15]

Yep, both sides have gone back and forth. That's not the issue. Politicians change their positions when politically convenient.

The issue is who abused filibusters to the extent that change became necessary. And that's what some people don't want to talk about.

Prior to Obama, filibusters were fewer in number, and at least cited some justification concerning the qualifications of the nominee. Might have been a weak justification, but at least they tried.

After Obama, that changed. Even if everyone agreed the nominee was a perfect candidate, the nominee was still filibustered, solely because Obama nominated him. That hadn't happened before, and was the straw that broke the camel's back.

The Republicans were trying to outflank the Constitution, removing the President's power to make appointments. In defense of the Constitution, the filibuster had to be removed for appointments. It also should have been removed for SC justices, for consistency. Filibustering legislation, that's not a constitutional issue, as doing so isn't violating the Constitution.

Anyone informed person with a hint of intellectual honesty knows the stark differences between what happened then compared to what happened yesterday.

But take a good look at where you are and who hangs out here - intellectual honestly is something the USMB Right Wing Nut Brigade is incapable of.

This is the land of the lost.

 

[Amelia]

No need to worry guys. I'm sure that everyone in the GOP who was for this before they were against it will stick to their new found principles and restore this portion of the filibuster rules should they retake the Senate. And if they don't, surely the USMB Right Wing Nut Brigade will lose their shit over it like they have over the last 24 hours.

I was against this before. I don't expect that they will restore the filibuster rules if they retake the Senate. Of course, if they retake the Senate while Obama is still president it could be considered an acceptable gesture. If they retake the Senate with a Republican president of course they'll take advantage of the opportunity to fast track agency appointments to undo as fast as possible the things Obama and the present Dem senators put in place.

I won't lose my shit whatever they do.

I suspect that a sense of perspective currently lacking by the panicked Democrats will stop Republicans from escalating with further changes to the filibuster. But I won't make any bets on that. The genii is out of the bottle. Democrats needed to do some bailing of their sinking ship and instead they opened the floodgates.

 

[Dot Com]

ummm..... the filibuster was designed to be used rarely in matters of great import NOT as a primary governing tool (oxymoron) by republicans on EVERY appointment

so the phony moderate speaks up again,

I should have known, I actually thought you'd be sensible and see now extreme a move on so many levels this was aside from utterly tactless and harmful to an already fragile balance there has been....but, nope, its congenital....right," this is a good move"...

In other words, at this time, and on this issue, it is your ox that has been gored.

In politics, as in other arenas in life, one should pick their fights carefully, not waste time flaring at every imagined pinprick. The GOP choose to filibuster every appointee. They choose to fight every single appointment as a political issue, no matter how apolitical the post. So now the inevitable has happened. A rule change that gives the President the ability to make all of the appointments that he desires. Did you people not see this coming? Are you truly that blind and stupid?

uh huh....... my ox isn't being gored becasue I never wanted Frist et al to use the nuclear option either, the senate is designed the way it was with the filibuster ala 1792/1806 for a reason, and the differences in chambers is on purpose.

theres a reason why a state like Wyoming with 1 million people have just as many senators as say California with over 30 million? 6 year term...See how that works? It was never intended to be a majority house, it is not a populist chamber.


the house is, a MAJORITY chamber, a populist chamber by design ......


considering being blind and stupid is a majority that is such a mess they cannot find their way out except by turning the very screws , solitude and going their own one party way, even harder. The dems went your own way on obamacare and?

If they had had 10 gop senators and 50 or so house gopers in on obamacare, Obamas hand would be infinitely stronger...but in his won words;" I won"...well, there ya go.

You know what Joe Lewis said...you can run but you can't hide.....

If this was intended as a distraction it was stupid, and you've blown the comity/community card, no one, even the average half wit half way intelligent voter thinks that there will be or even should be anything left now of cooperation etc, in either endeavors, bills etc.

...you cannot stomp someones guts like you did with that big Fuck you with obamacare and then expect them to cooperate.....well, I take that back, it appears you are one of those deluded ones that thinks like Jake= faux moderators that the gop should help mend obamacare.....

Oh and you're "they fought every nominee" is bullshit, the least you could do is go and rad some thing other than think progress

oh and just as an exit remark;

obama said alito has " training and qualifications necessary to serve" and an "an intelligent man, accomplishment jurist", of great character...yet he voted to filibuster him...

 

[Article 15]

No need to worry guys. I'm sure that everyone in the GOP who was for this before they were against it will stick to their new found principles and restore this portion of the filibuster rules should they retake the Senate. And if they don't, surely the USMB Right Wing Nut Brigade will lose their shit over it like they have over the last 24 hours.

I was against this before. I don't expect that they will restore the filibuster rules if they retake the Senate. Of course, if they retake the Senate while Obama is still president it could be considered an acceptable gesture. If they retake the Senate with a Republican president of course they'll take advantage of the opportunity to fast track agency appointments to undo as fast as possible the things Obama and the present Dem senators put in place.

I won't lose my shit whatever they do.

I suspect that a sense of perspective currently lacking by the panicked Democrats will stop Republicans from escalating with further changes to the filibuster. But I won't make any bets on that. The genii is out of the bottle. Democrats needed to do some bailing of their sinking ship and instead they opened the floodgates.

I was against this before and I am now. I would prefer making filibusterers actually get up and talk.

The threat of the GOP being even bigger dicks than they are being now should they take over the majority in the Senate is all the more reason not to give them a majority there until they have proven they can behave like adults and allow the government to govern. Until then - sorry boys, grow up.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

This change makes the senate nothing but an extension of the house. The senate was supposed to be a higher body that moved more slowly and carefully.

This change is bad for the future of the USA.

Even with this change, the Senate is not "an extension of the House". It's still a body that gives disproportionate weight to trees and rocks over people.

so 'lighten' Nevada and ditch Reid the Rockhead....

 

[Amelia]

Yep, both sides have gone back and forth. That's not the issue. Politicians change their positions when politically convenient.

The issue is who abused filibusters to the extent that change became necessary. And that's what some people don't want to talk about.

Prior to Obama, filibusters were fewer in number, and at least cited some justification concerning the qualifications of the nominee. Might have been a weak justification, but at least they tried.

After Obama, that changed. Even if everyone agreed the nominee was a perfect candidate, the nominee was still filibustered, solely because Obama nominated him. That hadn't happened before, and was the straw that broke the camel's back.

The Republicans were trying to outflank the Constitution, removing the President's power to make appointments. In defense of the Constitution, the filibuster had to be removed for appointments. It also should have been removed for SC justices, for consistency. Filibustering legislation, that's not a constitutional issue, as doing so isn't violating the Constitution.

"After Obama, that changed. Even if everyone agreed the nominee was a perfect candidate, the nominee was still filibustered, solely because Obama nominated him. That hadn't happened before, and was the straw that broke the camel's back."

Do you think untruths like this are helpful?

Nominees were filibustered for many reasons. It was not about Obama. Putting a hold on appointments until other issues were looked at is not filibustering solely because Obama made the nomination. Politics is messy business. Democrats played it too. What Republicans did was not unprecedented in any detail except for the number of filibusters, and that was part of a trend. Democrats escalated the pace of filibusters during Bush's presidency and if a Republican had been elected president again in this polarized, media-saturated, cameras-everywhere age, Democrats would have further escalated their filibusters too.

 

[Dot Com]

McConnell/Repubs did absolutely nothing to move this great nation forward before this rules change. What could they possibly do worse than that ? They should have donated their salaries back to the treasury for all the non-working they did the last 4+ yrs.

No need to worry guys. I'm sure that everyone in the GOP who was for this before they were against it will stick to their new found principles and restore this portion of the filibuster rules should they retake the Senate. And if they don't, surely the USMB Right Wing Nut Brigade will lose their shit over it like they have over the last 24 hours.

I was against this before. I don't expect that they will restore the filibuster rules if they retake the Senate. Of course, if they retake the Senate while Obama is still president it could be considered an acceptable gesture. If they retake the Senate with a Republican president of course they'll take advantage of the opportunity to fast track agency appointments to undo as fast as possible the things Obama and the present Dem senators put in place.

I won't lose my shit whatever they do.

I suspect that a sense of perspective currently lacking by the panicked Democrats will stop Republicans from escalating with further changes to the filibuster. But I won't make any bets on that. The genii is out of the bottle. Democrats needed to do some bailing of their sinking ship and instead they opened the floodgates.

I was against this before and I am now. I would prefer making filibusterers actually get up and talk.

The threat of the GOP being even bigger dicks than they are being now should they take over the majority in the Senate is all the more reason not to give them a majority there until they have proven they can behave like adults and allow the government to govern. Until then - sorry boys, grow up.

 

[Amelia]

....

oh and just as an exit remark;

obama said alito has " training and qualifications necessary to serve" and an "an intelligent man, accomplishment jurist", of great character...yet he voted to filibuster him...

^^
Quote of the day.

/end thread

 

[Trajan]

Amelia and dblack skirted the matter that we don't have moderates willing in the GOP to work with the Dems.

This is a good move by the Dems.

We Pubs will certainly do it when we get the Senate back. Hopefully, the Dems will have moderates that are willing to work with the Pubs so we don't have this nonsense going on.

If we had been willing to work with the Dems, it would have been 3 judgeships not the 93 that will shape the judicial bench for a lifetime thanks to our intransigence.

so the phony moderate speaks up again,

I should have known, I actually thought you'd be sensible and see now extreme a move on so many levels this was aside from utterly tactless and harmful to an already fragile balance there has been....but, nope, its congenital....right," this is a good move"...

That you can't stand moderation in the GOP is your problem, Trajan, only. Government has to work. We will get ours back when we take power.

The issue remains the extremes of both parties: they have to be broken.

first of all jake please go inform yourself...just once before you chime in, please .


this has shit all to do with 'moderation',if anything this is exactly what the filibuster was created to stop;

obama wants to add 4 more judges to the DC circuit, thats add as in not replace or fill vacancies, add more seats, to in affect "pack" it.....adding more of his own folks when right now there is a even split, and they are NOT understaffed, NOT overworked...

thats really what got obama/ reid on the warpath, the dc court deals with a lot of regulatory issues....and , hes wrong, so lets see, can Jake get outside himself and admit that obama and reid were trying to pull a fast one?

can you admit that?

 

[Dot Com]

Yep, both sides have gone back and forth. That's not the issue. Politicians change their positions when politically convenient.

The issue is who abused filibusters to the extent that change became necessary. And that's what some people don't want to talk about.

Prior to Obama, filibusters were fewer in number, and at least cited some justification concerning the qualifications of the nominee. Might have been a weak justification, but at least they tried.

After Obama, that changed. Even if everyone agreed the nominee was a perfect candidate, the nominee was still filibustered, solely because Obama nominated him. That hadn't happened before, and was the straw that broke the camel's back.

The Republicans were trying to outflank the Constitution, removing the President's power to make appointments. In defense of the Constitution, the filibuster had to be removed for appointments. It also should have been removed for SC justices, for consistency. Filibustering legislation, that's not a constitutional issue, as doing so isn't violating the Constitution.

"After Obama, that changed. Even if everyone agreed the nominee was a perfect candidate, the nominee was still filibustered, solely because Obama nominated him. That hadn't happened before, and was the straw that broke the camel's back."

Do you think untruths like this are helpful?

Nominees were filibustered for many reasons. It was not about Obama. Putting a hold on appointments until other issues were looked at is not filibustering solely because Obama made the nomination. Politics is messy business. Democrats played it too. What Republicans did was not unprecedented in any detail except for the number of filibusters, and that was part of a trend. Democrats escalated the pace of filibusters during Bush's presidency and if a Republican had been elected president again in this polarized, media-saturated, cameras-everywhere age, Democrats would have further escalated their filibusters too.

Oh sweet Geezus Amelia WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?!!! Repubs filibustered anything and everything that had our great president's hand prints on it. You people are beyond the pale on this PUT down the SeanRushLevin kool aid

 

[dblack]

McConnell/Repubs did absolutely nothing to move this great nation forward before this rules change. What could they possibly do worse than that ? They should have donated their salaries back to the treasury for all the non-working they did.

How? Easy, by moving backward. Forward and backward are relative terms and depend on our values and perspective. The rules protecting minority power are deliberately there to make it harder for ambitious leaders to 'move' our country in any particular direction. They protect all of us. They protect us less now, thanks to Reid, Obama and the Democrats.

 

[Misty]

When Republicans tried to do this, Obama and Reid had a fit.

So both parties are hypocrites and lying corrupt power hungry dangers to this country and our freedom.

On the 'nuclear option,' Obama and Republicans have a lot in common

 

[Trajan]

ummm..... the filibuster was designed to be used rarely in matters of great import NOT as a primary governing tool (oxymoron) by republicans on EVERY appointment

In other words, at this time, and on this issue, it is your ox that has been gored.

In politics, as in other arenas in life, one should pick their fights carefully, not waste time flaring at every imagined pinprick. The GOP choose to filibuster every appointee. They choose to fight every single appointment as a political issue, no matter how apolitical the post. So now the inevitable has happened. A rule change that gives the President the ability to make all of the appointments that he desires. Did you people not see this coming? Are you truly that blind and stupid?

uh huh....... my ox isn't being gored becasue I never wanted Frist et al to use the nuclear option either, the senate is designed the way it was with the filibuster ala 1792/1806 for a reason, and the differences in chambers is on purpose.

theres a reason why a state like Wyoming with 1 million people have just as many senators as say California with over 30 million? 6 year term...See how that works? It was never intended to be a majority house, it is not a populist chamber.


the house is, a MAJORITY chamber, a populist chamber by design ......


considering being blind and stupid is a majority that is such a mess they cannot find their way out except by turning the very screws , solitude and going their own one party way, even harder. The dems went your own way on obamacare and?

If they had had 10 gop senators and 50 or so house gopers in on obamacare, Obamas hand would be infinitely stronger...but in his won words;" I won"...well, there ya go.

You know what Joe Lewis said...you can run but you can't hide.....

If this was intended as a distraction it was stupid, and you've blown the comity/community card, no one, even the average half wit half way intelligent voter thinks that there will be or even should be anything left now of cooperation etc, in either endeavors, bills etc.

...you cannot stomp someones guts like you did with that big Fuck you with obamacare and then expect them to cooperate.....well, I take that back, it appears you are one of those deluded ones that thinks like Jake= faux moderators that the gop should help mend obamacare.....

Oh and you're "they fought every nominee" is bullshit, the least you could do is go and rad some thing other than think progress

oh and just as an exit remark;

obama said alito has " training and qualifications necessary to serve" and an "an intelligent man, accomplishment jurist", of great character...yet he voted to filibuster him...

its a little late to bitch now....and ts not been used on every appt. but hey, I didn't except you to follow up on my request to old hocks.