Remembering Robert E. Lee: American Patriot and Southern Hero

[Toro]

What union did he save? 11 states wanted to leave and he decided to kill them instead of letting them leave. The union would have gone on with or without those 11 states, so again, what union did he save?

There's a reason that those states seceded and it had everything to do with the economic oppression being exerted by Northern states by means of their population advantage. They passed hefty tariffs that devastated the agricultural economy of the South and were heedless of any protest to the damage they were doing. Fort Sumter is where these levies were collected and the reason it was fired upon when all peaceful measures were exhausted.

Tariffs had been declining prior to the Civil War, due primarily to Southern opposition. They went up when the South seceded.

For several decades prior to the Civil War, the North was forced to delay or compromise several of its national economic policy objectives due to Southern opposition and the strong position the Southern states held in the Senate. As soon as the Southern states seceded Congress began enacting this delayed agenda. The Morrill Tariff of 1861 raised rates to 20 percent on average, ending more than 30 years of declining tariffs.

Civil War and Industrial Expansion 1860 x2013 1897 Overview FREE Civil War and Industrial Expansion 1860 x2013 1897 Overview information Encyclopedia.com Find Civil War and Industrial Expansion 1860 x2013 1897 Overview research

The Morrill Tariff was passed before the Confederates states seceded. It was one of the highest tariffs ever passed by Congress.

The tariff was passed on March 2, 1861. The Confederacy was formed on February 4, 1861.

The Morrill Tariff of 1861 was an increased tariff in the United States, adopted on March 2, 1861, ... The passage of the tariff was possible because many tariff-averse Southerners had resigned from Congress after their states declared their secession.

Morrill Tariff - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Seven Deep South cotton states seceded by February 1861, starting with South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. These seven states formed the Confederate States of America (February 4, 1861),

American Civil War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It was also a hot button the 1860 election because it passed the house in May and was on the way to signature, until it was stalled by the senate.

So it didn't go into law until after the inauguration but it was already a hot topic, in particular for the south, as those tariffs were viewed poorly. Like most everything, context is important.

The Morrill Tariff was in rotation for a year before it was adopted. Actually more than a year. The 7 states seceded in January of 61 following republican Lincoln's GE win.

But it passed only because they resigned.

A bill can't become a law unless it passes the Senate. Had they stayed, it wouldn't have passed.

 

[mgh80]

And the North wasn't so much anti-slavery, as the were Pro-Union.

The North went to war to keep the Union together.

The South went to war to preserve, protect, defend, and expand Slavery.

So you're admitting that slavery was NOT a reason why the Union went to war? That's what I was looking for. Thanks!

 

[bripat9643]

First, start with this:

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution:

"Congress shall have the Power …. To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards and other needful Buildings."

It says Congress has the power to do that. It doesn't say Congress must do that, and it didn't in the case of Fort Sumter.

 

[bripat9643]

Virginia was not part of the United States after it seceded. If you insist that it was, then you are agreeing that Lincoln slaughtered hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens. He ordered his troops to rape them, loot their property, burn their homes to the ground and execute them without a trial.

Insurgents were citizens who rebelled against the law. People who do that get hurt, bripat. Duh.

If they were citizens, then Lincoln slaughtered them wholesale and violated their rights in ways too many to count.

They were citizen criminals in rebellion against their country

Criminals have constitutional rights. The government can't execute them without a trial, rape them, take their property or burn it to the ground.

War is Hell: William T Sherman

You think that excuses it?

You really just don't care if Lincoln pissed on the Constitution, do you?

Why should anyone care about your claims that the Constitution doesn't allow secession when you don't give a flying fuck that it doesn't allow the government to execute people without a trial?

 

[paperview]

And the North wasn't so much anti-slavery, as the were Pro-Union.

The North went to war to keep the Union together.

The South went to war to preserve, protect, defend, and expand Slavery.

So you're admitting that slavery was NOT a reason why the Union went to war? That's what I was looking for. Thanks!

I don't have to admit anything. I never claimed slavery was the reason the North went to war.

Any student of history knows that.

The North went to war to keep the Union together.

The South went to war to preserve, protect, defend, and expand Slavery.

 

[paperview]

First, start with this:

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution:

"Congress shall have the Power …. To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards and other needful Buildings."

It says Congress has the power to do that. It doesn't say Congress must do that, and it didn't in the case of Fort Sumter.

It did, you White Supremacist fuckstick.

 

[mgh80]

And the North wasn't so much anti-slavery, as the were Pro-Union.

The North went to war to keep the Union together.

The South went to war to preserve, protect, defend, and expand Slavery.

So you're admitting that slavery was NOT a reason why the Union went to war? That's what I was looking for. Thanks!

I don't have to admit anything. I never claimed slavery was the reason the North went to war.

Any student of history knows that.

The North went to war to keep the Union together.

The South went to war to preserve, protect, defend, and expand Slavery.

My original point as to the war in this thread was two fold:

1) The Civil War was NOT fought over slavery (and you agree with me).

2) Robert Lee did NOT own slaves and was anti-slavery (which is evident in his letters that he wrote his slave-owning wife)

The second point here is a fact and cannot be disputed.

So unless you disagree with those points....you actually don't disagree with my original points in this thread at all. If you want you can go back in the thread to read them (just like you suggested I do earlier).

I'm not condoning what the South did. I was simply saying that Lee wasn't this monster that many make him out to be. That he was anti-slavery, thought it was evil, but did fight for the Confederacy (because Virginia was a part of it). He felt more loyal to his state than he did to the country as a whole (like many Southerners and Northerners did at that time).

 

[paperview]

1) The South started a war over slavery. FACT.

2) Yes, Lee owned slaves, and even had slaves waiting on him as he fought the war to preserve, protect, defend, and expand Slavery.

 

[bripat9643]

First, start with this:

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution:

"Congress shall have the Power …. To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards and other needful Buildings."

It says Congress has the power to do that. It doesn't say Congress must do that, and it didn't in the case of Fort Sumter.

It did, you White Supremacist fuckstick.

Your own source proves it didn't, fuckstick.

 

[mgh80]

1) The South started a war over slavery. FACT.

2) Yes, Lee owned slaves, and even had slaves waiting on him as he fought the war to preserve, protect, defend, and expand Slavery.

Lee did NOT own slaves. His wife inherited slaves from her father. Lee said in a letter to his wife:

"In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former."

PS: This letter was from 1856, years BEFORE the Civil War. Lee did not fight for the South due to slavery, he did because of his loyalty for his state.

 

[bripat9643]

1) The South started a war over slavery. FACT.

2) Yes, Lee owned slaves, and even had slaves waiting on him as he fought the war to preserve, protect, defend, and expand Slavery.

1) Not a fact. The South didn't start the war. Lincoln did.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

What union did he save? 11 states wanted to leave and he decided to kill them instead of letting them leave. The union would have gone on with or without those 11 states, so again, what union did he save?

There's a reason that those states seceded and it had everything to do with the economic oppression being exerted by Northern states by means of their population advantage. They passed hefty tariffs that devastated the agricultural economy of the South and were heedless of any protest to the damage they were doing. Fort Sumter is where these levies were collected and the reason it was fired upon when all peaceful measures were exhausted.

Tariffs had been declining prior to the Civil War, due primarily to Southern opposition. They went up when the South seceded.

For several decades prior to the Civil War, the North was forced to delay or compromise several of its national economic policy objectives due to Southern opposition and the strong position the Southern states held in the Senate. As soon as the Southern states seceded Congress began enacting this delayed agenda. The Morrill Tariff of 1861 raised rates to 20 percent on average, ending more than 30 years of declining tariffs.

Civil War and Industrial Expansion 1860 x2013 1897 Overview FREE Civil War and Industrial Expansion 1860 x2013 1897 Overview information Encyclopedia.com Find Civil War and Industrial Expansion 1860 x2013 1897 Overview research

The Morrill Tariff was passed before the Confederates states seceded. It was one of the highest tariffs ever passed by Congress.

The tariff was passed on March 2, 1861. The Confederacy was formed on February 4, 1861.

The Morrill Tariff of 1861 was an increased tariff in the United States, adopted on March 2, 1861, ... The passage of the tariff was possible because many tariff-averse Southerners had resigned from Congress after their states declared their secession.

Morrill Tariff - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Seven Deep South cotton states seceded by February 1861, starting with South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. These seven states formed the Confederate States of America (February 4, 1861),

American Civil War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It was also a hot button the 1860 election because it passed the house in May and was on the way to signature, until it was stalled by the senate.

So it didn't go into law until after the inauguration but it was already a hot topic, in particular for the south, as those tariffs were viewed poorly. Like most everything, context is important.

The Morrill Tariff was in rotation for a year before it was adopted. Actually more than a year. The 7 states seceded in January of 61 following republican Lincoln's GE win.

But it passed only because they resigned.

A bill can't become a law unless it passes the Senate. Had they stayed, it wouldn't have passed.

Maybe, maybe not. The point being the writing was on the wall already.

 

[paperview]

1) The South started a war over slavery. FACT.

2) Yes, Lee owned slaves, and even had slaves waiting on him as he fought the war to preserve, protect, defend, and expand Slavery.

Lee did NOT own slaves. His wife inherited slaves from her father. Lee said in a letter to his wife:

"In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former."

PS: This letter was from 1856, years BEFORE the Civil War. Lee did not fight for the South due to slavery, he did because of his loyalty for his state.

Remembering Robert E. Lee American Patriot and Southern Hero Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Nosmo King]

Wrong, he fought for his state, the CSA, and his property. The USA could not "invade" Virginia, for Virginia was a governmental entity indivisble from the USA.

Wrong. You're quoting the pledge of allegiance, which was written by some commie. Nothing in the Constitution says a state can't secede.

The pledge of alligiance was written by a Communist?

That is not only vapid thinking, which falls into line with all your posts, but the final nail in e coffin of this thread.

Now you will call me the vilest names you can think of, but consider just how stupid you actually are.

Pledge of alligiance written by a communist. What an idiot!

 

[mgh80]

1) The South started a war over slavery. FACT.

2) Yes, Lee owned slaves, and even had slaves waiting on him as he fought the war to preserve, protect, defend, and expand Slavery.

Lee did NOT own slaves. His wife inherited slaves from her father. Lee said in a letter to his wife:

"In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former."

PS: This letter was from 1856, years BEFORE the Civil War. Lee did not fight for the South due to slavery, he did because of his loyalty for his state.

Remembering Robert E. Lee American Patriot and Southern Hero Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I don't understand why you posted this link? I'm not trying to be sarcastic/a jerk I just don't get why you did?

 

[Unkotare]

The South didn't start the war. Lincoln did.

You can squat in the corner hitting yourself in the head with a mallet and repeating that over and over as long as you want, but you can't make it true.

 

[paperview]

Wrong, he fought for his state, the CSA, and his property. The USA could not "invade" Virginia, for Virginia was a governmental entity indivisble from the USA.

Wrong. You're quoting the pledge of allegiance, which was written by some commie. Nothing in the Constitution says a state can't secede.

The pledge of alligiance was written by a Communist?

That is not only vapid thinking, which falls into line with all your posts, but the final nail in e coffin of this thread.

Now you will call me the vilest names you can think of, but consider just how stupid you actually are.

Pledge of alligiance written by a communist. What an idiot!

FTR: It was written by a a socialist.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Love what happened to his house....we should do stuff like that today.

Get sued and lose? Yes, Custis Lee sued and he won. (The house was never actually Robert E. Lee's...it was his father in law's.)

 

[paperview]

1) The South started a war over slavery. FACT.

2) Yes, Lee owned slaves, and even had slaves waiting on him as he fought the war to preserve, protect, defend, and expand Slavery.

Lee did NOT own slaves. His wife inherited slaves from her father. Lee said in a letter to his wife:

"In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former."

PS: This letter was from 1856, years BEFORE the Civil War. Lee did not fight for the South due to slavery, he did because of his loyalty for his state.

Remembering Robert E. Lee American Patriot and Southern Hero Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I don't understand why you posted this link? I'm not trying to be sarcastic/a jerk I just don't get why you did?

Read it. Read the first link. I'm fully aware of the single letter to his wife, (like nearly 30 years ago -- I make my living in history) and that article does a good job explaining it.

If you're too tired to read, have a listen to the historian talk about Mythical Lee.

 

[Unkotare]

Nothing in the Constitution says a state can't secede.

The Supreme Court disagrees with you.


Let's see....United States Supreme Court, or some bitter, weak-minded imbecile on the internet...which has more credibility? Hmmmm........