Remembering Robert E. Lee: American Patriot and Southern Hero

[reconmark]

We know Lee fought against the Union, thus fought for slavery.

stmike talking about history is similar to a hamster eating the pages of a history book.

The Civil War was not fought over slavery.

Says revisionist who think everyone else failed third grade history like them...

The Civil War was NOT fought over slavery. Lincoln (wisely) used it to condone the war to get more support.

Why did the Underground Railroad end in Canada and NOT the North?

There are many reason, one well known reason was the fact that many escaped and free Black people were kidnapped in the North and forced into Slavery in the South.

The Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 also outlawed the abetting of fugitive slaves. Their safety and freedom would not be reached until they entered into Canada. Not all slaves traveled north. There were also Underground Railroad lines that lead south en route for Mexico and the Caribbean.

Underground Railroad A Path to Freedom

 

[paperview]

I told you where to look.

I'm not going to repeat myself.

 

[mgh80]

We know Lee fought against the Union, thus fought for slavery.

stmike talking about history is similar to a hamster eating the pages of a history book.

The Civil War was not fought over slavery.

Says revisionist who think everyone else failed third grade history like them...

The Civil War was NOT fought over slavery. Lincoln (wisely) used it to condone the war to get more support.

Why did the Underground Railroad end in Canada and NOT the North?

There are many reason, one well known reason was the fact that many escaped and free Black people were kidnapped in the North and forced into Slavery in the South.

The Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 also outlawed the abetting of fugitive slaves. Their safety and freedom would not be reached until they entered into Canada. Not all slaves traveled north. There were also Underground Railroad lines that lead south en route for Mexico and the Caribbean.

Underground Railroad A Path to Freedom

So what you're saying is:

-Black slaves had to avoid being caught in the North out of fear of being sent back to the South.

-The North was so anti-slavery that they would wage the bloodiest war in American history against the South.


How do those two things mesh?

 

[reconmark]

So, Lee will be 208 years old on Monday. All blacks should have a paid holiday. Lee was a loser...

You do know that Lee did NOT own slaves and was anti-slavery right?

Lee owned slaves, hated abolitionists, and thought the answer was to wait for God to sort it out.

Prove it.

Posted earlier in the thread. Look it up yourself, you lazy bum.

You made a statement. I asked you to prove it. You resorted to a personal attack. Good job!!!!!!

If you don't want to prove your points-don't expect to be taken seriously by anybody. That includes people who may agree with you.

The steamer also brought the President's message to Cong; & the reports of the various heads of Depts; the proceedings of Cong: &c &c. So that we are now assured, that the Govt: is in operation, & the Union in existence, not that we had any fears to the Contrary, but it is Satisfactory always to have facts to go on. They restrain Supposition & Conjecture, Confirm faith, & bring Contentment: I was much pleased with the President's message & the report of the Secy of War, the only two documents that have reached us entire. Of the others synopsis [sic] have only arrived. The views of the Pres: of the Systematic & progressive efforts of certain people of the North, to interfere with & change the domestic institutions of the South, are truthfully & faithfully expressed. The Consequences of their plans & purposes are also clearly set forth, & they must also be aware, that their object is both unlawful & entirely foreign to them & their duty; for which they are irresponsible & unaccountable; & Can only be accomplished by them through the agency of a Civil & Servile war. In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild & melting influence of Christianity, than the storms & tempests of fiery Controversy. This influence though slow, is sure. The doctrines & miracles of our Saviour have required nearly two thousand years, to Convert but a small part of the human race, & even among Christian nations, what gross errors still exist! While we see the Course of the final abolition of human Slavery is onward, & we give it the aid of our prayers & all justifiable means in our power, we must leave the progress as well as the result in his hands who sees the end; who Chooses to work by slow influences; & with whom two thousand years are but as a Single day. Although the Abolitionist must know this, & must See that he has neither the right or power of operating except by moral means & suasion, & if he means well to the slave, he must not Create angry feelings in the Master; that although he may not approve the mode which it pleases Providence to accomplish its purposes, the result will nevertheless be the same; that the reasons he gives for interference in what he has no Concern, holds good for every kind of interference with our neighbors when we disapprove their Conduct; Still I fear he will persevere in his evil Course. Is it not strange that the descendants of those pilgrim fathers who Crossed the Atlantic to preserve their own freedom of opinion, have always proved themselves intolerant of the Spiritual liberty of others?

Try to keep up...

 

[paperview]

We know Lee fought against the Union, thus fought for slavery.

stmike talking about history is similar to a hamster eating the pages of a history book.

The Civil War was not fought over slavery.

Says revisionist who think everyone else failed third grade history like them...

The Civil War was NOT fought over slavery. Lincoln (wisely) used it to condone the war to get more support.

Why did the Underground Railroad end in Canada and NOT the North?

There are many reason, one well known reason was the fact that many escaped and free Black people were kidnapped in the North and forced into Slavery in the South.

The Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 also outlawed the abetting of fugitive slaves. Their safety and freedom would not be reached until they entered into Canada. Not all slaves traveled north. There were also Underground Railroad lines that lead south en route for Mexico and the Caribbean.

Underground Railroad A Path to Freedom

The fact he/she didn't know about that (or the Fugitive Slave Clause in the Constitution) tells me the deficit he/she is working with to even ask that question.

 

[mgh80]

I told you where to look.

I'm not going to repeat myself.

In other words you expect somebody to go through 25 pages of posts to find your post...

You call me lazy for not doing that? Then why don't you do that? Are you not being lazy?

 

[reconmark]

We know Lee fought against the Union, thus fought for slavery.

stmike talking about history is similar to a hamster eating the pages of a history book.

The Civil War was not fought over slavery.

Says revisionist who think everyone else failed third grade history like them...

The Civil War was NOT fought over slavery. Lincoln (wisely) used it to condone the war to get more support.

Why did the Underground Railroad end in Canada and NOT the North?

There are many reason, one well known reason was the fact that many escaped and free Black people were kidnapped in the North and forced into Slavery in the South.

The Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 also outlawed the abetting of fugitive slaves. Their safety and freedom would not be reached until they entered into Canada. Not all slaves traveled north. There were also Underground Railroad lines that lead south en route for Mexico and the Caribbean.

Underground Railroad A Path to Freedom

So what you're saying is:

-Black slaves had to avoid being caught in the North out of fear of being sent back to the South.

-The North was so anti-slavery that they would wage the bloodiest war in American history against the South.


How do those two things mesh?

Are you trying to be stupid???...I'm totally serious.

 

[mgh80]

We know Lee fought against the Union, thus fought for slavery.

stmike talking about history is similar to a hamster eating the pages of a history book.

The Civil War was not fought over slavery.

Says revisionist who think everyone else failed third grade history like them...

The Civil War was NOT fought over slavery. Lincoln (wisely) used it to condone the war to get more support.

Why did the Underground Railroad end in Canada and NOT the North?

There are many reason, one well known reason was the fact that many escaped and free Black people were kidnapped in the North and forced into Slavery in the South.

The Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 also outlawed the abetting of fugitive slaves. Their safety and freedom would not be reached until they entered into Canada. Not all slaves traveled north. There were also Underground Railroad lines that lead south en route for Mexico and the Caribbean.

Underground Railroad A Path to Freedom

The fact he/she didn't know about that (or the Fugitive Slave Clause in the Constitution) tells me the deficit he/she is working with to even ask that question.

I have my masters in US history. My question wasn't intended to be a legal question, but a practical one. It remains unanswered:

If the North was so anti-slavery enough to wage the bloodiest war in US history--why would they be willing to send the slaves back to the South?

In other words is your argument that they were willing to fight and die for the slaves...but not to help them get to Canada? Really?

Try to keep up with the conversation at hand.

 

[Toro]

What union did he save? 11 states wanted to leave and he decided to kill them instead of letting them leave. The union would have gone on with or without those 11 states, so again, what union did he save?

There's a reason that those states seceded and it had everything to do with the economic oppression being exerted by Northern states by means of their population advantage. They passed hefty tariffs that devastated the agricultural economy of the South and were heedless of any protest to the damage they were doing. Fort Sumter is where these levies were collected and the reason it was fired upon when all peaceful measures were exhausted.

Tariffs had been declining prior to the Civil War, due primarily to Southern opposition. They went up when the South seceded.

For several decades prior to the Civil War, the North was forced to delay or compromise several of its national economic policy objectives due to Southern opposition and the strong position the Southern states held in the Senate. As soon as the Southern states seceded Congress began enacting this delayed agenda. The Morrill Tariff of 1861 raised rates to 20 percent on average, ending more than 30 years of declining tariffs.

Civil War and Industrial Expansion 1860 x2013 1897 Overview FREE Civil War and Industrial Expansion 1860 x2013 1897 Overview information Encyclopedia.com Find Civil War and Industrial Expansion 1860 x2013 1897 Overview research

The Morrill Tariff was passed before the Confederates states seceded. It was one of the highest tariffs ever passed by Congress.

The tariff was passed on March 2, 1861. The Confederacy was formed on February 4, 1861.

The Morrill Tariff of 1861 was an increased tariff in the United States, adopted on March 2, 1861, ... The passage of the tariff was possible because many tariff-averse Southerners had resigned from Congress after their states declared their secession.

Morrill Tariff - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Seven Deep South cotton states seceded by February 1861, starting with South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. These seven states formed the Confederate States of America (February 4, 1861),

American Civil War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[mgh80]

The Civil War was not fought over slavery.

Says revisionist who think everyone else failed third grade history like them...

The Civil War was NOT fought over slavery. Lincoln (wisely) used it to condone the war to get more support.

Why did the Underground Railroad end in Canada and NOT the North?

There are many reason, one well known reason was the fact that many escaped and free Black people were kidnapped in the North and forced into Slavery in the South.

The Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 also outlawed the abetting of fugitive slaves. Their safety and freedom would not be reached until they entered into Canada. Not all slaves traveled north. There were also Underground Railroad lines that lead south en route for Mexico and the Caribbean.

Underground Railroad A Path to Freedom

So what you're saying is:

-Black slaves had to avoid being caught in the North out of fear of being sent back to the South.

-The North was so anti-slavery that they would wage the bloodiest war in American history against the South.


How do those two things mesh?

Are you trying to be stupid???...I'm totally serious.

If the North was so anti-slavery why would they be willing to send slaves back to the South rather then allow them to stay or to help them get to Canada? It's a simple question.

 

[reconmark]

The Civil War was not fought over slavery.

Says revisionist who think everyone else failed third grade history like them...

The Civil War was NOT fought over slavery. Lincoln (wisely) used it to condone the war to get more support.

Why did the Underground Railroad end in Canada and NOT the North?

There are many reason, one well known reason was the fact that many escaped and free Black people were kidnapped in the North and forced into Slavery in the South.

The Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 also outlawed the abetting of fugitive slaves. Their safety and freedom would not be reached until they entered into Canada. Not all slaves traveled north. There were also Underground Railroad lines that lead south en route for Mexico and the Caribbean.

Underground Railroad A Path to Freedom

The fact he/she didn't know about that (or the Fugitive Slave Clause in the Constitution) tells me the deficit he/she is working with to even ask that question.

I have my masters in US history. My question wasn't intended to be a legal question, but a practical one. It remains unanswered:

If the North was so anti-slavery enough to wage the bloodiest war in US history--why would they be willing to send the slaves back to the South?

In other words is your argument that they were willing to fight and die for the slaves...but not to help them get to Canada? Really?

Try to keep up with the conversation at hand.

Please don't trumpet your educational incompetence to anyone else. You are ignorant of basic facts concerning this period in history and you want to attempt to be witty...just stop

Further you stupid bag of rocks, "the North" did not send them back, paid unscrupulous slave catchers did...

 

[mgh80]

Says revisionist who think everyone else failed third grade history like them...

The Civil War was NOT fought over slavery. Lincoln (wisely) used it to condone the war to get more support.

Why did the Underground Railroad end in Canada and NOT the North?

There are many reason, one well known reason was the fact that many escaped and free Black people were kidnapped in the North and forced into Slavery in the South.

The Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 also outlawed the abetting of fugitive slaves. Their safety and freedom would not be reached until they entered into Canada. Not all slaves traveled north. There were also Underground Railroad lines that lead south en route for Mexico and the Caribbean.

Underground Railroad A Path to Freedom

The fact he/she didn't know about that (or the Fugitive Slave Clause in the Constitution) tells me the deficit he/she is working with to even ask that question.

I have my masters in US history. My question wasn't intended to be a legal question, but a practical one. It remains unanswered:

If the North was so anti-slavery enough to wage the bloodiest war in US history--why would they be willing to send the slaves back to the South?

In other words is your argument that they were willing to fight and die for the slaves...but not to help them get to Canada? Really?

Try to keep up with the conversation at hand.

Please don't trumpet your educational incompetence to anyone else. You are ignorant of basic facts concerning this period in history and you want to attempt to be witty...just stop

If the North was so anti-slavery why would they be willing to send slaves back to the South rather then allow them to stay or to help them get to Canada? It's a simple question.

 

[rightwinger]

The Civil War was NOT fought over slavery. Lincoln (wisely) used it to condone the war to get more support.

Why did the Underground Railroad end in Canada and NOT the North?

There are many reason, one well known reason was the fact that many escaped and free Black people were kidnapped in the North and forced into Slavery in the South.

The Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 also outlawed the abetting of fugitive slaves. Their safety and freedom would not be reached until they entered into Canada. Not all slaves traveled north. There were also Underground Railroad lines that lead south en route for Mexico and the Caribbean.

Underground Railroad A Path to Freedom

The fact he/she didn't know about that (or the Fugitive Slave Clause in the Constitution) tells me the deficit he/she is working with to even ask that question.

I have my masters in US history. My question wasn't intended to be a legal question, but a practical one. It remains unanswered:

If the North was so anti-slavery enough to wage the bloodiest war in US history--why would they be willing to send the slaves back to the South?

In other words is your argument that they were willing to fight and die for the slaves...but not to help them get to Canada? Really?

Try to keep up with the conversation at hand.

Please don't trumpet your educational incompetence to anyone else. You are ignorant of basic facts concerning this period in history and you want to attempt to be witty...just stop

If the North was so anti-slavery why would they be willing to send slaves back to the South rather then allow them to stay or to help them get to Canada? It's a simple question.

The South forced fugitive slave laws which the Supreme Court backed up

 

[TakeAStepBack]

What union did he save? 11 states wanted to leave and he decided to kill them instead of letting them leave. The union would have gone on with or without those 11 states, so again, what union did he save?

There's a reason that those states seceded and it had everything to do with the economic oppression being exerted by Northern states by means of their population advantage. They passed hefty tariffs that devastated the agricultural economy of the South and were heedless of any protest to the damage they were doing. Fort Sumter is where these levies were collected and the reason it was fired upon when all peaceful measures were exhausted.

Tariffs had been declining prior to the Civil War, due primarily to Southern opposition. They went up when the South seceded.

For several decades prior to the Civil War, the North was forced to delay or compromise several of its national economic policy objectives due to Southern opposition and the strong position the Southern states held in the Senate. As soon as the Southern states seceded Congress began enacting this delayed agenda. The Morrill Tariff of 1861 raised rates to 20 percent on average, ending more than 30 years of declining tariffs.

Civil War and Industrial Expansion 1860 x2013 1897 Overview FREE Civil War and Industrial Expansion 1860 x2013 1897 Overview information Encyclopedia.com Find Civil War and Industrial Expansion 1860 x2013 1897 Overview research

The Morrill Tariff was passed before the Confederates states seceded. It was one of the highest tariffs ever passed by Congress.

The tariff was passed on March 2, 1861. The Confederacy was formed on February 4, 1861.

The Morrill Tariff of 1861 was an increased tariff in the United States, adopted on March 2, 1861, ... The passage of the tariff was possible because many tariff-averse Southerners had resigned from Congress after their states declared their secession.

Morrill Tariff - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Seven Deep South cotton states seceded by February 1861, starting with South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. These seven states formed the Confederate States of America (February 4, 1861),

American Civil War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It was also a hot button the 1860 election because it passed the house in May and was on the way to signature, until it was stalled by the senate.

So it didn't go into law until after the inauguration but it was already a hot topic, in particular for the south, as those tariffs were viewed poorly. Like most everything, context is important.

The Morrill Tariff was in rotation for a year before it was adopted. Actually more than a year. The 7 states seceded in January of 61 following republican Lincoln's GE win.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Grant was a whole lot better. His casually rate was for his worst battles was 28%. He also didn't through live away like Lee did. His battles were logical. Viksburg was fight the same day. The campain was fought at the same time.... mid may to July. That alone should put paid to the discussion of who was a better general

Sheeeesh, but that was a silly observation - I suggest you look-up the Battle of Cold Harbor, for starters, and The Crater, never mind examining the casualty figures and rates for Grant vs. Lee, over time.

Cold Harbor was the exception. Over time, the statistics stand. And that is with Cold Harbor figured in.

The overland campaign was a brutal, merciless fight. He had to fight on Lee's terms, and that was in trenches. His kind of war was Vicksburg and Chattanooga.

And the Crater was fd up by Meade, who pulled out the guys who had trainer for the job and put in troops led by a total jerk.

 

[paperview]

Jesus Christ. The Fugitive Slave Act was Federal law.

Some states fought it, but it. was. law. It was Part.Of>Our>Constitution ! Look it up.

Part of the reason the South was so upset with the North, was because some of the Northern States weren't returning their slaves.

Read it in their Secession Documents! The South was crying about States Rights -- while at the same time pissed as hell those in the Northern States had any States Rights to not return Slaves to their owners.

 

[reconmark]

Jesus Christ. The Fugitive Slave Act was Federal law.

Some states fought it, but it. was. law. It was Part.Of>Our>Constitution ! Look it up.

Part of the reason the South was so upset with the North, was because some of the Northern States weren't returning their slaves.

Read it in their Secession Documents! The South was crying about States Rights -- while at the same time pissed as hell those in the Northern States had any States Rights to not return Slaves to their owners.

This guy is claiming to have a Master's Degree in history...

 

[mgh80]

Jesus Christ. The Fugitive Slave Act was Federal law.

Some states fought it, but it. was. law. It was Part.Of>Our>Constitution ! Look it up.

Part of the reason the South was so upset with the North, was because some of the Northern States weren't returning their slaves.

Read it in their Secession Documents! The South was crying about States Rights -- while at the same time pissed as hell those in the Northern States had any States Rights to not return Slaves to their owners.

If the Civil War was about slavery then why:

-Did Lincoln outlaw slavery of just 10 of the Confederate states (and not the border states)?

-Why did Delaware and new Jersey NOT ratify the 13th amendment in 1865 (roughly 4 years after the start of the war)?

-Why did it take 4 years for a Constitutionally amendment after the start of the war?

-Why would the North abide by the Fugitive State Act and not simply close a blind eye to it? If they were willing to go to war over slavery, I'm assuming they'd be willing to ignore the South forcing the Act (which for the record I actually agree the South did d that).

 

[paperview]

And the North wasn't so much anti-slavery, as the were Pro-Union.

The North went to war to keep the Union together.

The South went to war to preserve, protect, defend, and expand Slavery.

 

[paperview]

Jesus Christ. The Fugitive Slave Act was Federal law.

Some states fought it, but it. was. law. It was Part.Of>Our>Constitution ! Look it up.

Part of the reason the South was so upset with the North, was because some of the Northern States weren't returning their slaves.

Read it in their Secession Documents! The South was crying about States Rights -- while at the same time pissed as hell those in the Northern States had any States Rights to not return Slaves to their owners.

This guy is claiming to have a Master's Degree in history...

mgh is? Are you serious??

He/she reads like a Jr. High student.