Remembering Robert E. Lee: American Patriot and Southern Hero

[bripat9643]

Bripat longs for the days when "darkies" knew their place.

Oh, there you go. I knew there had to be a simple answer.

Liberal turds never change the modus operandi. Whenever they can't win on the facts, the bring out the race card.

 

[Kondor3]

Grant was a whole lot better. His casually rate was for his worst battles was 28%. He also didn't through live away like Lee did. His battles were logical. Viksburg was fight the same day. The campain was fought at the same time.... mid may to July. That alone should put paid to the discussion of who was a better general

Sheeeesh, but that was a silly observation - I suggest you look-up the Battle of Cold Harbor, for starters, and The Crater, never mind examining the casualty figures and rates for Grant vs. Lee, over time.

 

[paperview]

South Carolina ceded all rights to Fort Sumter in 1836. It wasn't hers to just take.

Nor were the forts and military installations or the Mint filled with Gold they seized. Or the US Ships they fired on, and captured for their own use as Man of War vessels in January 1861.

You can't just go stealing federal government property and say: hey, it's ours now. Go fuck yourselves.

That property was bought and paid for by the entire United States.

Yes, actually, you can. South Carolina ceded all property rights. That doesn't mean it ceded territorial rights. If the U.S. government decides to expropriate foreign owned property within our borders, it is free to do so. The same goes for any sovereign state, like the sovereign state of South Carolina. It can do the same. There is no principle of international law that requires it to allow a foreign power to station troops within its borders.

Try seizing a Federal fort.

Wait to see what happens/

 

[bripat9643]

The Civil War was not fought over slavery.

Of course not....it was fought over a states right to allow slavery

Oh God, not that crap again.

All one has to do is read the justifications for secession written by South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia, and Texas. These were the direct words of the people who started the civil war, and the reasons they gave for doing that. Only a revisionist moron accepts contemporary spin about it.

Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

I have read those justifications as well as the Constitution of the Confederacy.......protecting slavery was prominent

Whatever the confederate states stated as their reason for seceding, the fact is that Lincoln invaded them, not the other way around, and his motive was to enforce the Morrill Tariff.

False.

Absolutely true. Lincoln even said so himself.

 

[rightwinger]

Oh God, not that crap again.

All one has to do is read he justifications for secession written by South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia, and Texas. There were the direct words of the people who started the civil war, and the reasons they gave for doing that. Only a revisionist moron accepts contemporary spin about it.

Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

Lincoln started the Civil War, dumbshit. He invaded Virginia. It wasn't the other way around.

On April 12, 1861, General P.G.T. Beauregard, in command of the Confederate forces around Charleston Harbor, opened fire on the Union garrison holding Fort Sumter. At 2:30pm on April 13 Major Robert Anderson, garrison commander, surrendered the fort and was evacuated the next day.

Fort Sumter was South Carolina territory. Firing on your own territory isn't an act of war.

The Fort was federal territory......still is

Wrong, it was South Carolina territory. Is Subic Bay U.S. territory? Guantanamo?

Yes

SC did not pay for Ft Sumter, it belonged to we the people

They tried to steal it at gun point and got their asses kicked in return

 

[bripat9643]

South Carolina ceded all rights to Fort Sumter in 1836. It wasn't hers to just take.

Nor were the forts and military installations or the Mint filled with Gold they seized. Or the US Ships they fired on, and captured for their own use as Man of War vessels in January 1861.

You can't just go stealing federal government property and say: hey, it's ours now. Go fuck yourselves.

That property was bought and paid for by the entire United States.

Yes, actually, you can. South Carolina ceded all property rights. That doesn't mean it ceded territorial rights. If the U.S. government decides to expropriate foreign owned property within our borders, it is free to do so. The same goes for any sovereign state, like the sovereign state of South Carolina. It can do the same. There is no principle of international law that requires it to allow a foreign power to station troops within its borders.

Try seizing a fort today.

Wait to see what happens/

Yes, the U.S. is powerful enough to bully just about any country in the world, but numerous countries have kicked us out of our overseas military installations.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

South Carolina ceded all rights to Fort Sumter in 1836. It wasn't hers to just take.

Nor were the forts and military installations or the Mint filled with Gold they seized. Or the US Ships they fired on, and captured for their own use as Man of War vessels in January 1861.

You can't just go stealing federal government property and say: hey, it's ours now. Go fuck yourselves.

That property was bought and paid for by the entire United States.

Yes, actually, you can. South Carolina ceded all property rights. That doesn't mean it ceded territorial rights. If the U.S. government decides to expropriate foreign owned property within our borders, it is free to do so. The same goes for any sovereign state, like the sovereign state of South Carolina. It can do the same. There is no principle of international law that requires it to allow a foreign power to station troops within its borders.

And again, SC went as fa as trying to negotiate a peaceful withdraw of federal garrison at Sumpter. They were sent packing by Lincoln. Lincoln wasn't going to allow them to secede and that message was made clear with federal govt. actions.

Lincoln "saved the Union" in the same fashion an abusive husband mends a marriage about to go nuclear - by beating them into submission.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Of course not....it was fought over a states right to allow slavery

Oh God, not that crap again.

All one has to do is read the justifications for secession written by South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia, and Texas. These were the direct words of the people who started the civil war, and the reasons they gave for doing that. Only a revisionist moron accepts contemporary spin about it.

Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

I have read those justifications as well as the Constitution of the Confederacy.......protecting slavery was prominent

Whatever the confederate states stated as their reason for seceding, the fact is that Lincoln invaded them, not the other way around, and his motive was to enforce the Morrill Tariff.

Lincoln can't invade his own country

It was the traitors taking up arms against their country

Virginia was not part of the United States after it seceded. If you insist that it was, then you are agreeing that Lincoln slaughtered hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens. He ordered his troops to rape them, loot their property, burn their homes to the ground and execute them without a trial.

Insurgents were citizens who rebelled against the law. People who do that get hurt, bripat. Duh.

 

[rightwinger]

Martin Luther King is an American Patriot and southern hero

Lee is just a Traitor

 

[bripat9643]

Lincoln started the Civil War, dumbshit. He invaded Virginia. It wasn't the other way around.

On April 12, 1861, General P.G.T. Beauregard, in command of the Confederate forces around Charleston Harbor, opened fire on the Union garrison holding Fort Sumter. At 2:30pm on April 13 Major Robert Anderson, garrison commander, surrendered the fort and was evacuated the next day.

Fort Sumter was South Carolina territory. Firing on your own territory isn't an act of war.

The Fort was federal territory......still is

Wrong, it was South Carolina territory. Is Subic Bay U.S. territory? Guantanamo?

Yes

SC did not pay for Ft Sumter, it belonged to we the people

They tried to steal it at gun point and got their asses kicked in return

It was within the borders of South Carolina. Buying land in another country doesn't make that land part of the United States.

I know all you imbeciles understand this principle. You simply pretend not to so you can continue using your infantile argument.

 

[bripat9643]

Oh God, not that crap again.

All one has to do is read the justifications for secession written by South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia, and Texas. These were the direct words of the people who started the civil war, and the reasons they gave for doing that. Only a revisionist moron accepts contemporary spin about it.

Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

I have read those justifications as well as the Constitution of the Confederacy.......protecting slavery was prominent

Whatever the confederate states stated as their reason for seceding, the fact is that Lincoln invaded them, not the other way around, and his motive was to enforce the Morrill Tariff.

Lincoln can't invade his own country

It was the traitors taking up arms against their country

Virginia was not part of the United States after it seceded. If you insist that it was, then you are agreeing that Lincoln slaughtered hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens. He ordered his troops to rape them, loot their property, burn their homes to the ground and execute them without a trial.

Insurgents were citizens who rebelled against the law. People who do that get hurt, bripat. Duh.

If they were citizens, then Lincoln slaughtered them wholesale and violated their rights in ways too many to count.

 

[paperview]

The South committed an Act of War with the firing on and seizing of Federal properties even before Fort Sumter.

And Buchanan was a pansy ass to not fulfill his duties when the South took claim to property that WAS NOT THEIRS.

But for those who might be interested in the historical tidbit (not for bri and the other Lost Cause trolls with serious mental illnesses...)

Here you go:
=================================================
South Carolina ceded all rights and claim to Sumter in 1836. Yes, 1836.
==================================================

Committee on Federal Relations
In the House of Representatives, December 31st, 1836

"The Committee on Federal relations, to which was referred the Governor's message, relating to the site of Fort Sumter, in the harbour of Charleston, and the report of the Committee on Federal Relations from the Senate on the same subject, beg leave to Report by Resolution:

"Resolved, That this state do cede to the United States, all the right, title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory, Provided, That all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated by law; and that the said land, site and structures enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this state.

"Also resolved: That the State shall extinguish the claim, if any valid claim there be, of any individuals under the authority of this State, to the land hereby ceded.

"Also resolved, That the Attorney-General be instructed to investigate the claims of Wm. Laval and others to the site of Fort Sumter, and adjacent land contiguous thereto; and if he shall be of the opinion that these parties have a legal title to the said land, that Generals Hamilton and Hayne and James L. Pringle, Thomas Bennett and Ker. Boyce, Esquires, be appointed Commissioners on behalf of the State, to appraise the value thereof. If the Attorney-General should be of the opinion that the said title is not legal and valid, that he proceed by seire facius of other proper legal proceedings to have the same avoided; and that the Attorney-General and the said Commissioners report to the Legislature at its next session.

"Resolved, That this House to agree. Ordered that it be sent to the Senate for concurrence. By order of the House:

"T. W. Glover, C. H. R."
"In Senate, December 21st, 1836

"Resolved, that the Senate do concur. Ordered that it be returned to the House of Representatives, By order:

Jacob Warly, C. S.

======================================
And even if she hadn't, a state cannot just claim Federal property as it's own. Kentucky can't just decide to claim Fort Knox if it decided it wanted to secede. Not the way it works.

But never matter no mind. South Carolina DID cede the rights to Fort Sumter and adjacent territory. It's right there in black and black and white.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Poor lil white supremacists who can't get over, still -- they lost the war.

 

[rightwinger]

On April 12, 1861, General P.G.T. Beauregard, in command of the Confederate forces around Charleston Harbor, opened fire on the Union garrison holding Fort Sumter. At 2:30pm on April 13 Major Robert Anderson, garrison commander, surrendered the fort and was evacuated the next day.

Fort Sumter was South Carolina territory. Firing on your own territory isn't an act of war.

The Fort was federal territory......still is

Wrong, it was South Carolina territory. Is Subic Bay U.S. territory? Guantanamo?

Yes

SC did not pay for Ft Sumter, it belonged to we the people

They tried to steal it at gun point and got their asses kicked in return

It was within the borders of South Carolina. Buying land in another country doesn't make that land part of the United States.

I know all you imbeciles understand this principle. You simply pretend not to so you can continue using your infantile argument.

It was always within the borders of SC and always federal property

Firing on the Stars and Stripes does not change that

 

[rightwinger]

I have read those justifications as well as the Constitution of the Confederacy.......protecting slavery was prominent

Whatever the confederate states stated as their reason for seceding, the fact is that Lincoln invaded them, not the other way around, and his motive was to enforce the Morrill Tariff.

Lincoln can't invade his own country

It was the traitors taking up arms against their country

Virginia was not part of the United States after it seceded. If you insist that it was, then you are agreeing that Lincoln slaughtered hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens. He ordered his troops to rape them, loot their property, burn their homes to the ground and execute them without a trial.

Insurgents were citizens who rebelled against the law. People who do that get hurt, bripat. Duh.

If they were citizens, then Lincoln slaughtered them wholesale and violated their rights in ways too many to count.

They were citizen criminals in rebellion against their country

 

[paperview]

It's amazing how far some people will go to defend those who fought to preserve human bondage.

What a badge!

 

[bripat9643]

The South committed an Act of War with the firing on and seizing of Federal properties even before Fort Sumter.

And Buchanan was a pansy ass to not fulfill his duties when the South took claim to property that WAS NOT THEIRS.

But for those who might be interested in the historical tidbit (not for bri and the other Lost Cause trolls with serious mental illnesses...)

Here you go:
=================================================
South Carolina ceded all rights and claim to Sumter in 1836. Yes, 1836.
==================================================

Committee on Federal Relations
In the House of Representatives, December 31st, 1836

"The Committee on Federal relations, to which was referred the Governor's message, relating to the site of Fort Sumter, in the harbour of Charleston, and the report of the Committee on Federal Relations from the Senate on the same subject, beg leave to Report by Resolution:

"Resolved, That this state do cede to the United States, all the right, title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory, Provided, That all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated by law; and that the said land, site and structures enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this state.

"Also resolved: That the State shall extinguish the claim, if any valid claim there be, of any individuals under the authority of this State, to the land hereby ceded.

"Also resolved, That the Attorney-General be instructed to investigate the claims of Wm. Laval and others to the site of Fort Sumter, and adjacent land contiguous thereto; and if he shall be of the opinion that these parties have a legal title to the said land, that Generals Hamilton and Hayne and James L. Pringle, Thomas Bennett and Ker. Boyce, Esquires, be appointed Commissioners on behalf of the State, to appraise the value thereof. If the Attorney-General should be of the opinion that the said title is not legal and valid, that he proceed by seire facius of other proper legal proceedings to have the same avoided; and that the Attorney-General and the said Commissioners report to the Legislature at its next session.

"Resolved, That this House to agree. Ordered that it be sent to the Senate for concurrence. By order of the House:

"T. W. Glover, C. H. R."
"In Senate, December 21st, 1836

"Resolved, that the Senate do concur. Ordered that it be returned to the House of Representatives, By order:

Jacob Warly, C. S.

======================================
And even if she hadn't, a state cannot just claim Federal property as it's own. Kentucky can't just decide to claim Fort Knox if it decided it wanted to secede. Not the way it works.

But never matter no mind. South Carolina DID cede the rights to Fort Sumter and adjacent territory. It's right there in black and black and white.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Poor lil white supremacists who can't get over, still -- they lost the war.

It ceded property rights to the federal government, not territorial rights. Notice that it reserved the right to enforce South Carolina laws within the boundaries:

Provided, That all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated by law; and that the said land, site and structures enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this state.
​

That means if the legislature of South Carolina says the Union Troops have to vacate the premises, then they were legally obligated by the document you mention to vacate the premises.

You lose.

 

[bripat9643]

Whatever the confederate states stated as their reason for seceding, the fact is that Lincoln invaded them, not the other way around, and his motive was to enforce the Morrill Tariff.

Lincoln can't invade his own country

It was the traitors taking up arms against their country

Virginia was not part of the United States after it seceded. If you insist that it was, then you are agreeing that Lincoln slaughtered hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens. He ordered his troops to rape them, loot their property, burn their homes to the ground and execute them without a trial.

Insurgents were citizens who rebelled against the law. People who do that get hurt, bripat. Duh.

If they were citizens, then Lincoln slaughtered them wholesale and violated their rights in ways too many to count.

They were citizen criminals in rebellion against their country

Criminals have constitutional rights. The government can't execute them without a trial, rape them, take their property or burn it to the ground.

 

[paperview]

The South committed an Act of War with the firing on and seizing of Federal properties even before Fort Sumter.

And Buchanan was a pansy ass to not fulfill his duties when the South took claim to property that WAS NOT THEIRS.

But for those who might be interested in the historical tidbit (not for bri and the other Lost Cause trolls with serious mental illnesses...)

Here you go:
=================================================
South Carolina ceded all rights and claim to Sumter in 1836. Yes, 1836.
==================================================

Committee on Federal Relations
In the House of Representatives, December 31st, 1836

"The Committee on Federal relations, to which was referred the Governor's message, relating to the site of Fort Sumter, in the harbour of Charleston, and the report of the Committee on Federal Relations from the Senate on the same subject, beg leave to Report by Resolution:

"Resolved, That this state do cede to the United States, all the right, title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory, Provided, That all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated by law; and that the said land, site and structures enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this state.

"Also resolved: That the State shall extinguish the claim, if any valid claim there be, of any individuals under the authority of this State, to the land hereby ceded.

"Also resolved, That the Attorney-General be instructed to investigate the claims of Wm. Laval and others to the site of Fort Sumter, and adjacent land contiguous thereto; and if he shall be of the opinion that these parties have a legal title to the said land, that Generals Hamilton and Hayne and James L. Pringle, Thomas Bennett and Ker. Boyce, Esquires, be appointed Commissioners on behalf of the State, to appraise the value thereof. If the Attorney-General should be of the opinion that the said title is not legal and valid, that he proceed by seire facius of other proper legal proceedings to have the same avoided; and that the Attorney-General and the said Commissioners report to the Legislature at its next session.

"Resolved, That this House to agree. Ordered that it be sent to the Senate for concurrence. By order of the House:

"T. W. Glover, C. H. R."
"In Senate, December 21st, 1836

"Resolved, that the Senate do concur. Ordered that it be returned to the House of Representatives, By order:

Jacob Warly, C. S.

======================================
And even if she hadn't, a state cannot just claim Federal property as it's own. Kentucky can't just decide to claim Fort Knox if it decided it wanted to secede. Not the way it works.

But never matter no mind. South Carolina DID cede the rights to Fort Sumter and adjacent territory. It's right there in black and black and white.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Poor lil white supremacists who can't get over, still -- they lost the war.

It ceded property rights to the federal government, not territorial rights. Notice that it reserved the right to enforce South Carolina laws within the boundaries:

Provided, That all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated by law; and that the said land, site and structures enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this state.
​

That means if the legislature of South Carolina says the Union Troops have to vacate the premises, then they were legally obligated to the document you mention to vacate the premises.

You lose.

No it doesn't you idiot.

= You can't even read.

 

[bripat9643]

It's amazing how far some people will go to defend those who fought to preserve human bondage.

What a badge!

They fought to preserve the right of self determination.

 

[bripat9643]

The South committed an Act of War with the firing on and seizing of Federal properties even before Fort Sumter.

And Buchanan was a pansy ass to not fulfill his duties when the South took claim to property that WAS NOT THEIRS.

But for those who might be interested in the historical tidbit (not for bri and the other Lost Cause trolls with serious mental illnesses...)

Here you go:
=================================================
South Carolina ceded all rights and claim to Sumter in 1836. Yes, 1836.
==================================================

Committee on Federal Relations
In the House of Representatives, December 31st, 1836

"The Committee on Federal relations, to which was referred the Governor's message, relating to the site of Fort Sumter, in the harbour of Charleston, and the report of the Committee on Federal Relations from the Senate on the same subject, beg leave to Report by Resolution:

"Resolved, That this state do cede to the United States, all the right, title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory, Provided, That all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated by law; and that the said land, site and structures enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this state.

"Also resolved: That the State shall extinguish the claim, if any valid claim there be, of any individuals under the authority of this State, to the land hereby ceded.

"Also resolved, That the Attorney-General be instructed to investigate the claims of Wm. Laval and others to the site of Fort Sumter, and adjacent land contiguous thereto; and if he shall be of the opinion that these parties have a legal title to the said land, that Generals Hamilton and Hayne and James L. Pringle, Thomas Bennett and Ker. Boyce, Esquires, be appointed Commissioners on behalf of the State, to appraise the value thereof. If the Attorney-General should be of the opinion that the said title is not legal and valid, that he proceed by seire facius of other proper legal proceedings to have the same avoided; and that the Attorney-General and the said Commissioners report to the Legislature at its next session.

"Resolved, That this House to agree. Ordered that it be sent to the Senate for concurrence. By order of the House:

"T. W. Glover, C. H. R."
"In Senate, December 21st, 1836

"Resolved, that the Senate do concur. Ordered that it be returned to the House of Representatives, By order:

Jacob Warly, C. S.

======================================
And even if she hadn't, a state cannot just claim Federal property as it's own. Kentucky can't just decide to claim Fort Knox if it decided it wanted to secede. Not the way it works.

But never matter no mind. South Carolina DID cede the rights to Fort Sumter and adjacent territory. It's right there in black and black and white.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Poor lil white supremacists who can't get over, still -- they lost the war.

It ceded property rights to the federal government, not territorial rights. Notice that it reserved the right to enforce South Carolina laws within the boundaries:

Provided, That all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated by law; and that the said land, site and structures enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this state.
​

That means if the legislature of South Carolina says the Union Troops have to vacate the premises, then they were legally obligated to the document you mention to vacate the premises.

You lose.

No it doesn't you idiot.

= You can't even read.

I quoted it, so I leave it to the lurkers to decide whose telling the truth.