Render to Ceasar

[alang1216]

There are two ways of viewing the Bible.

• One is as the word of God. As such this assumes a single, coherent source with a unified message.
• The other is as a work of man. This views the Bible as an evolving set of writings authored by many people for many different reasons, each reflecting the knowledge and message of the author and his time and place.

While the two views are not mutually exclusive I find the later of much more interest to me and a more accurate way of understanding the book and the authors.

 

[irosie91]

There are two ways of viewing the Bible.

• One is as the word of God. As such this assumes a single, coherent source with a unified message.
• The other is as a work of man. This views the Bible as an evolving set of writings authored by many people for many different reasons, each reflecting the knowledge and message of the author and his time and place.

While the two views are not mutually exclusive I find the later of much more interest to me and a more accurate way of understanding the book and the authors.

compiled and redacted by a committee with an agenda

 

[hobelim]

There are two ways of viewing the Bible.

• One is as the word of God. As such this assumes a single, coherent source with a unified message.
• The other is as a work of man. This views the Bible as an evolving set of writings authored by many people for many different reasons, each reflecting the knowledge and message of the author and his time and place.

While the two views are not mutually exclusive I find the later of much more interest to me and a more accurate way of understanding the book and the authors.

I think both can be true and the many unknown authors and editors that reflected the contemporary concerns of people over thousands of years was simply them renewing for their contemporaries teaching that had become outdated and incomprehensible.

When David found a book of the law hidden in the wall of the temple, which is the law, it is showing exactly this...


The message and hidden teaching in the Torah was revealed and lost to time and rediscovered and lost to time, time and time again...

 

[alang1216]

The message and hidden teaching in the Torah was revealed and lost to time and rediscovered and lost to time, time and time again...

Were you a Gnostic in a previous life?

 

[irosie91]

The message and hidden teaching in the Torah was revealed and lost to time and rediscovered and lost to time, time and time again...

Were you a Gnostic in a previous life?

or present day GOTH? "hidden teachings" ?? ----------HIDDEN???? 'I lose my keys daily---------they are not HIDDEN

 

[hobelim]

The message and hidden teaching in the Torah was revealed and lost to time and rediscovered and lost to time, time and time again...

Were you a Gnostic in a previous life?

Who can say?

Every now and then I do have strange dreams about sticking it to the man while partying with sinners and prostitutes and keeping company with all sorts of bad characters.

I think I was just a teenager.

 

[Penelope]

So this am Earnhardt (you know the sex ploy on fox and friends) had a preacher and someone else on
and the preacher used to talk about the football players who took a knee.

Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God."

from the bible. News flash Caesar no longer exist, and then tell me when T was a patriotic man?? He has done all he could to get out of paying taxes, (like most rich) and for a man who made billions and then calls the government swamp land, then goes ahead and fills it up with more swamp creatures including himself.

He has desecrated his predecessors to the max especially his last one. He has said John McCain is a loser for getting caught while he himself avoided the service and his sons as well.

There is no way I can have respect for such a Potus, who has a history of racism, dishonesty, lack of integrity and thinks women want to have their pussies grabbed a dirty old scummy man who wears fake hair.

Oh little preacher man, those verses are not going to work in todays world.

You know, Nero was the Roman emperor at the time that Paul wrote that epistle with one out of place sentence that instructs believers to submit to the authorities.

Suspicious isn't it?


I see that as evidence that his letters, many written in jail, were redacted by the Romans before widespread publication......

Not at all. The whole of the NT is for the everyone who lived in the Roman Empire to submit to Rome. Slaves obey your masters.

No, that was another awkward line from another letter of Paul which is extremely suspect and at odds with what Jesus taught.

Think! Paul wrote many epistles in jail.. Do you imagine that the Roman authorities wouldn't have redacted his letters for security purposes before they were ever sent out?

Wasn't Nero deeply committed to persecuting Christians??????? Jesus taught to openly reject, renounce and resist evil, not to comply with and submit to evil.



When Jesus said to render unto Caesar, etc., he was speaking to a crowd answering a question about paying taxes to Rome that was a set up that could have got him arrested. Roman sympathizers would have seen his answer as Jesus advocating paying taxes but observant Jews would have understood that everything belongs to God and nothing belongs to caesar, especially in Israel..

Nothing happened in the Roman Empire without approval of the Caesar.


Roman soldiers called Jews fishes,
the Jews swallowed money and valuables when they tried to leave the temple.
Jesus says to Simon go to a fish and take a coin out;

Following verses:
Payment of the Temple Tax.When they came to Capernaum, the collectors of the temple tax approached Peter and said, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?” 25 “Yes,” he said.When he came into the house, before he had time to speak, Jesus asked him, “What is your opinion, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take tolls or census tax? From their subjects or from foreigners?” 26 When he said, “From foreigners,” Jesus said to him, “Then the subjects are exempt. 27 But that we may not offend them go to the sea, drop in a hook, and take the first fish that comes up. Open its mouth and you will find a coin worth twice the temple tax. Give that to them for me and for you.”

Simon says the subjects are exempt, who is the King at the time of the writing (in the later part of the first century) Caesar, so why does Jesus insinuate he and Simon are subjects??

Do you see the satire here.

 

[irosie91]

Jews would have understood that everything belongs to God and nothing belongs to caesar, especially in Israel..

Nothing happened in the Roman Empire without approval of the Caesar.


Roman soldiers called Jews fishes,
the Jews swallowed money and valuables when they tried to leave the temple.
Jesus says to Simon go to a fish and take a coin out;

Following verses:
Payment of the Temple Tax.When they came to Capernaum, the collectors of the temple tax approached Peter and said, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?” 25 “Yes,” he said.When he came into the house, before he had time to speak, Jesus asked him, “What is your opinion, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take tolls or census tax? From their subjects or from foreigners?” 26 When he said, “From foreigners,” Jesus said to him, “Then the subjects are exempt. 27 But that we may not offend them go to the sea, drop in a hook, and take the first fish that comes up. Open its mouth and you will find a coin worth twice the temple tax. Give that to them for me and for you.”

Simon says the subjects are exempt, who is the King at the time of the writing (in the later part of the first century) Caesar, so why does Jesus insinuate he and Simon are subjects??

Do you see the satire here.

no----I see no meaning at all

 

[Picaro]

not it isn't ------it is carefully crafted

And not by Constantine, either; the structure in fact precludes being tampered with, despite your bizarre belief they were all Nazis back then and 'out to get Da Joooos.

 

[Picaro]

Q ------as far as I know is a conjecture------a kind of logical but far from concrete ---extrapolation

There appears to be no other explanation for similarities in Matthew and Luke except that they shared a source. What that was is unknown, it could have been a book or even a person.

Actually the explanation is they both were reporting eye witnesses still around at the time, so yes, there are explanations, in fact that's why they're referred to as the Gospels.

 

[alang1216]

There appears to be no other explanation for similarities in Matthew and Luke except that they shared a source. What that was is unknown, it could have been a book or even a person.

Actually the explanation is they both were reporting eye witnesses still around at the time, so yes, there are explanations, in fact that's why they're referred to as the Gospels.

That seems unlikely since each eye witness would have a different interpretation of what they saw. To be so close there must have been a single source.

It may have been an eye witness but that seems unlikely given how difficult travel was and how poor were most of Jesus' followers. It seems more likely that stories of what Jesus did and what he said circulated throughout the early Christian world until some educated someone wrote them down. That is what made its way to M & L. IMHO.

Can you explain "that's why they're referred to as the Gospels". I'm afraid I don't understand.

 

[irosie91]

not it isn't ------it is carefully crafted

And not by Constantine, either; the structure in fact precludes being tampered with, despite your bizarre belief they were all Nazis back then and 'out to get Da Joooos.

\

"the structure precludes tampering" ??? you are very naïve. Of course not Constantine----he was illiterate. Interesting
that you use the word "Nazi"-------I would not say that the national supremacism that marked the ROMAN EMPIRE was invented
by the Romans--------they got it from the GREEKS and transformed it into the real filth------the first, second and third reichs. The
first reich was not "out to get" the jooos specifically----it was OUT TO GET THE WORLD (die welt------but back then----they said
it in Latin). Look hard-------in the glorious Justinian code-------you will find the Nuremburg laws

 

[irosie91]

The message and hidden teaching in the Torah was revealed and lost to time and rediscovered and lost to time, time and time again...

Were you a Gnostic in a previous life?

probably got lost in Bar Yochai's cave for a few months

 

[hobelim]

The message and hidden teaching in the Torah was revealed and lost to time and rediscovered and lost to time, time and time again...

Were you a Gnostic in a previous life?

probably got lost in Bar Yochai's cave for a few months

Did that place reek of dog shit and cheap booze and had sawdust on the floors?

Oh,. wait, that was CBGB's.. Nevermind...

 

[irosie91]

The message and hidden teaching in the Torah was revealed and lost to time and rediscovered and lost to time, time and time again...

Were you a Gnostic in a previous life?

probably got lost in Bar Yochai's cave for a few months

Did that place reek of dog shit and cheap booze and had sawdust on the floors?

Oh,. wait, that was CBGB's.. Nevermind...

I doubt it-------may have reeked of carob-------I don't know what CBGB is. I wonder if carob can be
fermented ???? anyone? carob wine?

 

[irosie91]

I searched -------no carob wine