Reparations???

[Markle]

Please enlighten me. What laws in this country discriminated against Jews worse than blacks?

What laws discriminate against blacks.

 

[Slade3200]

Please enlighten me. What laws in this country discriminated against Jews worse than blacks?

What laws discriminate against blacks.

Jim Crow discriminated against blacks. What discriminated agaist the Jews?

 

[Markle]

Jim Crow discriminated against blacks. What discriminated agaist [against] the Jews?

You couldn't do it so you deflected AGAIN!

Come on now Slade3200, concentrate. This was my question.

"What laws discriminate against blacks." Please note (your elementary school teacher would be ashamed if she knew) I used the present tense of the verb 'discriminate', not the PAST tense.

In English grammar, the simple present tense is a form of the verb that refers to an action or event that is ongoing or that regularly takes place in present time. For example, in the sentence "he cries easily," the verb "cries" is an ongoing action that he easily does.

Simple past tense verbs—also called past simple or preterite—show action that occurred and was completed at a particular time in the past. The simple past tense of regular verbs is marked by the ending -d or -ed. Irregular verbs have a variety of endings. The simple past is not accompanied by helping verbs. "The simple past tense is often used with an adverbial phrase that specifies a time in the past, such as yesterday, last year, (or) an hour ago," according to "Complete English Grammar Rules."

 

[Slade3200]

Jim Crow discriminated against blacks. What discriminated agaist [against] the Jews?

You couldn't do it so you deflected AGAIN!

Come on now Slade3200, concentrate. This was my question.

"What laws discriminate against blacks." Please note (your elementary school teacher would be ashamed if she knew) I used the present tense of the verb 'discriminate', not the PAST tense.

In English grammar, the simple present tense is a form of the verb that refers to an action or event that is ongoing or that regularly takes place in present time. For example, in the sentence "he cries easily," the verb "cries" is an ongoing action that he easily does.

Simple past tense verbs—also called past simple or preterite—show action that occurred and was completed at a particular time in the past. The simple past tense of regular verbs is marked by the ending -d or -ed. Irregular verbs have a variety of endings. The simple past is not accompanied by helping verbs. "The simple past tense is often used with an adverbial phrase that specifies a time in the past, such as yesterday, last year, (or) an hour ago," according to "Complete English Grammar Rules."

We weren’t talking about current laws. I saw you try and shift the conversation to that but that was you trying to deflect and pivot.

We have done valiable adjustments to our laws to make up for generations of discrimination per our old laws. Aimed at Blacks. You claimed that Jews had it worse. Which laws discriminated against Jews in this country to a larger degree than slavery and Jim Crow effected blacks?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Jim Crow discriminated against blacks. What discriminated agaist [against] the Jews?

You couldn't do it so you deflected AGAIN!

Come on now Slade3200, concentrate. This was my question.

"What laws discriminate against blacks." Please note (your elementary school teacher would be ashamed if she knew) I used the present tense of the verb 'discriminate', not the PAST tense.

In English grammar, the simple present tense is a form of the verb that refers to an action or event that is ongoing or that regularly takes place in present time. For example, in the sentence "he cries easily," the verb "cries" is an ongoing action that he easily does.

Simple past tense verbs—also called past simple or preterite—show action that occurred and was completed at a particular time in the past. The simple past tense of regular verbs is marked by the ending -d or -ed. Irregular verbs have a variety of endings. The simple past is not accompanied by helping verbs. "The simple past tense is often used with an adverbial phrase that specifies a time in the past, such as yesterday, last year, (or) an hour ago," according to "Complete English Grammar Rules."

We weren’t talking about current laws. I saw you try and shift the conversation to that but that was you trying to deflect and pivot.

We have done valiable adjustments to our laws to make up for generations of discrimination per our old laws. Aimed at Blacks. You claimed that Jews had it worse. Which laws discriminated against Jews in this country to a larger degree than slavery and Jim Crow effected blacks?

Years ago many people were discriminated against for one reason or another. European Americans were always very segregated people. When I grew up, there was a German section of town, a Polish section, a Slovenian section, an Italian section.......

My father is a retired bricklayer. He joined construction after he got out of the service and fell in love with the trade. It didn't come easy though.

In spite of needed labor, the union would not allow my father to become a bricklayer. When refused, he simply went back asking for an explanation. So they had a board hearing. Finally, a member of the board told my father the reason he was refused is because he was of Polish descent, and they didn't want Polish people in the trade. In their opinion, Polish people were slow and didn't catch on very quickly.

As my father got up to leave, he told them that he was a Marine, and Marines are determined to reach their destination. He will become a bricklayer with or without them; his Polish ass didn't survive a year in Korea because he was a quitter.

At that point, several members who were also vets asked if he would join. But if not for that, he would have never been allowed to learn a trade he loved so dearly all his life.

 

[Slade3200]

Jim Crow discriminated against blacks. What discriminated agaist [against] the Jews?

You couldn't do it so you deflected AGAIN!

Come on now Slade3200, concentrate. This was my question.

"What laws discriminate against blacks." Please note (your elementary school teacher would be ashamed if she knew) I used the present tense of the verb 'discriminate', not the PAST tense.

In English grammar, the simple present tense is a form of the verb that refers to an action or event that is ongoing or that regularly takes place in present time. For example, in the sentence "he cries easily," the verb "cries" is an ongoing action that he easily does.

Simple past tense verbs—also called past simple or preterite—show action that occurred and was completed at a particular time in the past. The simple past tense of regular verbs is marked by the ending -d or -ed. Irregular verbs have a variety of endings. The simple past is not accompanied by helping verbs. "The simple past tense is often used with an adverbial phrase that specifies a time in the past, such as yesterday, last year, (or) an hour ago," according to "Complete English Grammar Rules."

We weren’t talking about current laws. I saw you try and shift the conversation to that but that was you trying to deflect and pivot.

We have done valiable adjustments to our laws to make up for generations of discrimination per our old laws. Aimed at Blacks. You claimed that Jews had it worse. Which laws discriminated against Jews in this country to a larger degree than slavery and Jim Crow effected blacks?

Years ago many people were discriminated against for one reason or another. European Americans were always very segregated people. When I grew up, there was a German section of town, a Polish section, a Slovenian section, an Italian section.......

My father is a retired bricklayer. He joined construction after he got out of the service and fell in love with the trade. It didn't come easy though.

In spite of needed labor, the union would not allow my father to become a bricklayer. When refused, he simply went back asking for an explanation. So they had a board hearing. Finally, a member of the board told my father the reason he was refused is because he was of Polish descent, and they didn't want Polish people in the trade. In their opinion, Polish people were slow and didn't catch on very quickly.

As my father got up to leave, he told them that he was a Marine, and Marines are determined to reach their destination. He will become a bricklayer with or without them; his Polish ass didn't survive a year in Korea because he was a quitter.

At that point, several members who were also vets asked if he would join. But if not for that, he would have never been allowed to learn a trade he loved so dearly all his life.

View attachment 248380

That’s a great story about your dad, inspirational. But it also doesn’t relate to the experience that blacks went through for GENERATIONS because of the LAWS of our country.

There have been 4 major systemic human rights abuses by our country that come to mind. Slavery and Jim Crow for blacks, women’s rights, Native Americans, and LGBT. Corrections for these have been evolving over the years and are deserved. When people like you dismiss and deamonize these efforts it is unwarranted and counterproductive

Yes, poor immigrants from everywhere have also faced challenges. My great grandfather came over from Sicily with nickels in his pockets and made his way through hard work and many challenges. But this still doesn’t compare to the examples I used above.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Jim Crow discriminated against blacks. What discriminated agaist [against] the Jews?

You couldn't do it so you deflected AGAIN!

Come on now Slade3200, concentrate. This was my question.

"What laws discriminate against blacks." Please note (your elementary school teacher would be ashamed if she knew) I used the present tense of the verb 'discriminate', not the PAST tense.

In English grammar, the simple present tense is a form of the verb that refers to an action or event that is ongoing or that regularly takes place in present time. For example, in the sentence "he cries easily," the verb "cries" is an ongoing action that he easily does.

Simple past tense verbs—also called past simple or preterite—show action that occurred and was completed at a particular time in the past. The simple past tense of regular verbs is marked by the ending -d or -ed. Irregular verbs have a variety of endings. The simple past is not accompanied by helping verbs. "The simple past tense is often used with an adverbial phrase that specifies a time in the past, such as yesterday, last year, (or) an hour ago," according to "Complete English Grammar Rules."

We weren’t talking about current laws. I saw you try and shift the conversation to that but that was you trying to deflect and pivot.

We have done valiable adjustments to our laws to make up for generations of discrimination per our old laws. Aimed at Blacks. You claimed that Jews had it worse. Which laws discriminated against Jews in this country to a larger degree than slavery and Jim Crow effected blacks?

Years ago many people were discriminated against for one reason or another. European Americans were always very segregated people. When I grew up, there was a German section of town, a Polish section, a Slovenian section, an Italian section.......

My father is a retired bricklayer. He joined construction after he got out of the service and fell in love with the trade. It didn't come easy though.

In spite of needed labor, the union would not allow my father to become a bricklayer. When refused, he simply went back asking for an explanation. So they had a board hearing. Finally, a member of the board told my father the reason he was refused is because he was of Polish descent, and they didn't want Polish people in the trade. In their opinion, Polish people were slow and didn't catch on very quickly.

As my father got up to leave, he told them that he was a Marine, and Marines are determined to reach their destination. He will become a bricklayer with or without them; his Polish ass didn't survive a year in Korea because he was a quitter.

At that point, several members who were also vets asked if he would join. But if not for that, he would have never been allowed to learn a trade he loved so dearly all his life.

View attachment 248380

That’s a great story about your dad, inspirational. But it also doesn’t relate to the experience that blacks went through for GENERATIONS because of the LAWS of our country.

There have been 4 major systemic human rights abuses by our country that come to mind. Slavery and Jim Crow for blacks, women’s rights, Native Americans, and LGBT. Corrections for these have been evolving over the years and are deserved. When people like you dismiss and deamonize these efforts it is unwarranted and counterproductive

Yes, poor immigrants from everywhere have also faced challenges. My great grandfather came over from Sicily with nickels in his pockets and made his way through hard work and many challenges. But this still doesn’t compare to the examples I used above.

What you are asking for is to make reparations for hurdles that others have jumped.

If Jim Crow or Civil Rights were a new thing, you and others may have a point; those people were held back. But nobody born the last 50 years or more has faced any of those challenges; just like I didn't face my fathers challenges.

My life began when I took my first breath and will end when I take my last. What I do between that time is entirely up to me--not my father, grandfather nor the environment they lived in.

 

[Slade3200]

Jim Crow discriminated against blacks. What discriminated agaist [against] the Jews?

You couldn't do it so you deflected AGAIN!

Come on now Slade3200, concentrate. This was my question.

"What laws discriminate against blacks." Please note (your elementary school teacher would be ashamed if she knew) I used the present tense of the verb 'discriminate', not the PAST tense.

In English grammar, the simple present tense is a form of the verb that refers to an action or event that is ongoing or that regularly takes place in present time. For example, in the sentence "he cries easily," the verb "cries" is an ongoing action that he easily does.

Simple past tense verbs—also called past simple or preterite—show action that occurred and was completed at a particular time in the past. The simple past tense of regular verbs is marked by the ending -d or -ed. Irregular verbs have a variety of endings. The simple past is not accompanied by helping verbs. "The simple past tense is often used with an adverbial phrase that specifies a time in the past, such as yesterday, last year, (or) an hour ago," according to "Complete English Grammar Rules."

We weren’t talking about current laws. I saw you try and shift the conversation to that but that was you trying to deflect and pivot.

We have done valiable adjustments to our laws to make up for generations of discrimination per our old laws. Aimed at Blacks. You claimed that Jews had it worse. Which laws discriminated against Jews in this country to a larger degree than slavery and Jim Crow effected blacks?

Years ago many people were discriminated against for one reason or another. European Americans were always very segregated people. When I grew up, there was a German section of town, a Polish section, a Slovenian section, an Italian section.......

My father is a retired bricklayer. He joined construction after he got out of the service and fell in love with the trade. It didn't come easy though.

In spite of needed labor, the union would not allow my father to become a bricklayer. When refused, he simply went back asking for an explanation. So they had a board hearing. Finally, a member of the board told my father the reason he was refused is because he was of Polish descent, and they didn't want Polish people in the trade. In their opinion, Polish people were slow and didn't catch on very quickly.

As my father got up to leave, he told them that he was a Marine, and Marines are determined to reach their destination. He will become a bricklayer with or without them; his Polish ass didn't survive a year in Korea because he was a quitter.

At that point, several members who were also vets asked if he would join. But if not for that, he would have never been allowed to learn a trade he loved so dearly all his life.

View attachment 248380

That’s a great story about your dad, inspirational. But it also doesn’t relate to the experience that blacks went through for GENERATIONS because of the LAWS of our country.

There have been 4 major systemic human rights abuses by our country that come to mind. Slavery and Jim Crow for blacks, women’s rights, Native Americans, and LGBT. Corrections for these have been evolving over the years and are deserved. When people like you dismiss and deamonize these efforts it is unwarranted and counterproductive

Yes, poor immigrants from everywhere have also faced challenges. My great grandfather came over from Sicily with nickels in his pockets and made his way through hard work and many challenges. But this still doesn’t compare to the examples I used above.

What you are asking for is to make reparations for hurdles that others have jumped.

If Jim Crow or Civil Rights were a new thing, you and others may have a point; those people were held back. But nobody born the last 50 years or more has faced any of those challenges; just like I didn't face my fathers challenges.

My life began when I took my first breath and will end when I take my last. What I do between that time is entirely up to me--not my father, grandfather nor the environment they lived in.

You haven’t heard me ask for any reparations, yet you oppose what I’m saying and claim I’m asking for them. I don’t think you are listening. This is the problem. All I’ve asked you to do is acknowledge and recognize our history. That is all most people of color would need as well. Coming at these issues from the side of understanding goes a long way. Then when it comes to actual items of reparations or affirmative action we can make the smartest decisions for our country. Maybe a good solution is building a youth center in the heart of a low income black neighborhood. Or investing in their schools. Or offering an adult trade school education for low income workers. Would you be supposed to those initiatives? I hope not. Stuff that that can be consensus solutions. But too many wingnuts like to keep the racial fights alive. It’s a shame

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You couldn't do it so you deflected AGAIN!

Come on now Slade3200, concentrate. This was my question.

"What laws discriminate against blacks." Please note (your elementary school teacher would be ashamed if she knew) I used the present tense of the verb 'discriminate', not the PAST tense.

In English grammar, the simple present tense is a form of the verb that refers to an action or event that is ongoing or that regularly takes place in present time. For example, in the sentence "he cries easily," the verb "cries" is an ongoing action that he easily does.

Simple past tense verbs—also called past simple or preterite—show action that occurred and was completed at a particular time in the past. The simple past tense of regular verbs is marked by the ending -d or -ed. Irregular verbs have a variety of endings. The simple past is not accompanied by helping verbs. "The simple past tense is often used with an adverbial phrase that specifies a time in the past, such as yesterday, last year, (or) an hour ago," according to "Complete English Grammar Rules."

We weren’t talking about current laws. I saw you try and shift the conversation to that but that was you trying to deflect and pivot.

We have done valiable adjustments to our laws to make up for generations of discrimination per our old laws. Aimed at Blacks. You claimed that Jews had it worse. Which laws discriminated against Jews in this country to a larger degree than slavery and Jim Crow effected blacks?

Years ago many people were discriminated against for one reason or another. European Americans were always very segregated people. When I grew up, there was a German section of town, a Polish section, a Slovenian section, an Italian section.......

My father is a retired bricklayer. He joined construction after he got out of the service and fell in love with the trade. It didn't come easy though.

In spite of needed labor, the union would not allow my father to become a bricklayer. When refused, he simply went back asking for an explanation. So they had a board hearing. Finally, a member of the board told my father the reason he was refused is because he was of Polish descent, and they didn't want Polish people in the trade. In their opinion, Polish people were slow and didn't catch on very quickly.

As my father got up to leave, he told them that he was a Marine, and Marines are determined to reach their destination. He will become a bricklayer with or without them; his Polish ass didn't survive a year in Korea because he was a quitter.

At that point, several members who were also vets asked if he would join. But if not for that, he would have never been allowed to learn a trade he loved so dearly all his life.

View attachment 248380

That’s a great story about your dad, inspirational. But it also doesn’t relate to the experience that blacks went through for GENERATIONS because of the LAWS of our country.

There have been 4 major systemic human rights abuses by our country that come to mind. Slavery and Jim Crow for blacks, women’s rights, Native Americans, and LGBT. Corrections for these have been evolving over the years and are deserved. When people like you dismiss and deamonize these efforts it is unwarranted and counterproductive

Yes, poor immigrants from everywhere have also faced challenges. My great grandfather came over from Sicily with nickels in his pockets and made his way through hard work and many challenges. But this still doesn’t compare to the examples I used above.

What you are asking for is to make reparations for hurdles that others have jumped.

If Jim Crow or Civil Rights were a new thing, you and others may have a point; those people were held back. But nobody born the last 50 years or more has faced any of those challenges; just like I didn't face my fathers challenges.

My life began when I took my first breath and will end when I take my last. What I do between that time is entirely up to me--not my father, grandfather nor the environment they lived in.

You haven’t heard me ask for any reparations, yet you oppose what I’m saying and claim I’m asking for them. I don’t think you are listening. This is the problem. All I’ve asked you to do is acknowledge and recognize our history. That is all most people of color would need as well. Coming at these issues from the side of understanding goes a long way. Then when it comes to actual items of reparations or affirmative action we can make the smartest decisions for our country. Maybe a good solution is building a youth center in the heart of a low income black neighborhood. Or investing in their schools. Or offering an adult trade school education for low income workers. Would you be supposed to those initiatives? I hope not. Stuff that that can be consensus solutions. But too many wingnuts like to keep the racial fights alive. It’s a shame

These things are already available to all Americans of any race. You can go to trade school if you like, but pay for it yourself. If your schools are less than adequate, you can put tax levies on the ballot for more funding of your local schools. Anybody with a high school diploma and physically fit can join our military where you earn lots of benefits and can even retire by the time you're 40 with a great pension.

First you say you are not for reparations and then say when it comes time for reparations, then we can do it the smartest way. Sure sounds like you're for reparations to me.

Youth centers are all over this country, especially in lower income areas, and they didn't do any good. It's just another place to sell drugs or shoot people in the parking lot. The problem with blacks is not history, the problem with blacks are the present. Single-parent households, teenage mothers, several baby daddies, lack of involvement in their children's education are all part of what keeps them down; not what happened to their grandparents.

 

[Slade3200]

We weren’t talking about current laws. I saw you try and shift the conversation to that but that was you trying to deflect and pivot.

We have done valiable adjustments to our laws to make up for generations of discrimination per our old laws. Aimed at Blacks. You claimed that Jews had it worse. Which laws discriminated against Jews in this country to a larger degree than slavery and Jim Crow effected blacks?

Years ago many people were discriminated against for one reason or another. European Americans were always very segregated people. When I grew up, there was a German section of town, a Polish section, a Slovenian section, an Italian section.......

My father is a retired bricklayer. He joined construction after he got out of the service and fell in love with the trade. It didn't come easy though.

In spite of needed labor, the union would not allow my father to become a bricklayer. When refused, he simply went back asking for an explanation. So they had a board hearing. Finally, a member of the board told my father the reason he was refused is because he was of Polish descent, and they didn't want Polish people in the trade. In their opinion, Polish people were slow and didn't catch on very quickly.

As my father got up to leave, he told them that he was a Marine, and Marines are determined to reach their destination. He will become a bricklayer with or without them; his Polish ass didn't survive a year in Korea because he was a quitter.

At that point, several members who were also vets asked if he would join. But if not for that, he would have never been allowed to learn a trade he loved so dearly all his life.

View attachment 248380

That’s a great story about your dad, inspirational. But it also doesn’t relate to the experience that blacks went through for GENERATIONS because of the LAWS of our country.

There have been 4 major systemic human rights abuses by our country that come to mind. Slavery and Jim Crow for blacks, women’s rights, Native Americans, and LGBT. Corrections for these have been evolving over the years and are deserved. When people like you dismiss and deamonize these efforts it is unwarranted and counterproductive

Yes, poor immigrants from everywhere have also faced challenges. My great grandfather came over from Sicily with nickels in his pockets and made his way through hard work and many challenges. But this still doesn’t compare to the examples I used above.

What you are asking for is to make reparations for hurdles that others have jumped.

If Jim Crow or Civil Rights were a new thing, you and others may have a point; those people were held back. But nobody born the last 50 years or more has faced any of those challenges; just like I didn't face my fathers challenges.

My life began when I took my first breath and will end when I take my last. What I do between that time is entirely up to me--not my father, grandfather nor the environment they lived in.

You haven’t heard me ask for any reparations, yet you oppose what I’m saying and claim I’m asking for them. I don’t think you are listening. This is the problem. All I’ve asked you to do is acknowledge and recognize our history. That is all most people of color would need as well. Coming at these issues from the side of understanding goes a long way. Then when it comes to actual items of reparations or affirmative action we can make the smartest decisions for our country. Maybe a good solution is building a youth center in the heart of a low income black neighborhood. Or investing in their schools. Or offering an adult trade school education for low income workers. Would you be supposed to those initiatives? I hope not. Stuff that that can be consensus solutions. But too many wingnuts like to keep the racial fights alive. It’s a shame

These things are already available to all Americans of any race. You can go to trade school if you like, but pay for it yourself. If your schools are less than adequate, you can put tax levies on the ballot for more funding of your local schools. Anybody with a high school diploma and physically fit can join our military where you earn lots of benefits and can even retire by the time you're 40 with a great pension.

First you say you are not for reparations and then say when it comes time for reparations, then we can do it the smartest way. Sure sounds like you're for reparations to me.

Youth centers are all over this country, especially in lower income areas, and they didn't do any good. It's just another place to sell drugs or shoot people in the parking lot. The problem with blacks is not history, the problem with blacks are the present. Single-parent households, teenage mothers, several baby daddies, lack of involvement in their children's education are all part of what keeps them down; not what happened to their grandparents.

I don’t tend to say I’m for or against generized things. I need to look at the situation and the proposal. So when people propose reparations my first reaction is to acknowledge their reasoning for wanting them... which seems to be the point where you get combative and stall the conversation... and then I look for the best solutions which I’m general I’d support improvements to education and community programs. Show me a specific reparation or affirmative action law and I can tell you if I’m for or against it.

I think most of the time you are fighting against something that isn’t even there

 

[DOTR]

Reparations?

Why does someone who has never been a slave, who has never known a slave, want to take money from people who never owned a slave, and give it to someone else who has never been a slave?

Why do people want to continue to use history like a tool to continuously divide this nation and as a means for revenge for something never done to them instead of using history as a TEACHER to help us learn from our mistakes so we do not ever re peat those mistakes / horrible things?

I am a Native American, and you do not see Native Americans demanding reparations.

You do not see Japanese Americans demanding reparations for their ancestors being held in internment camps.

Why must race-baiters continue to divide this country.

God teaches us that it is far better ... and harder ... to forgive and move on that continue to hold hate in one's heart.

Hate, holding a grudge, poisons the one holding the grudge far more than the one being hated, but it divides them both.

It is WAY past time we move past the past wrongs done that today's people can only read about and know nothing personally about. Time to be adults, forgive, CHOOSE to change instead of being stuck in a divisive hateful past...or let our leaders continue to divide us through manipulating emotions over the past.

Hating is easy...choosing to forgive, move on, and grow is the harder, more adult, better course of action...

Don't let manipulators with agendas continue to divide and destroy this nation!

I guess you missed this so I'll post it again

Interesting question and I HOPE we can discuss it without the racial animus that usually accompanies the subject.
First things first let's understand and agree that that black folks WERE ripped from their culture and families and made slaves. That is something not easily overcome. In fact it's something that leaves a lasting scar.

Then let's understand that after we freed these people from slavery...that they underwent a century of Jim Crow laws that were not a lot different from the slavery they had been freed from and that that only ended 50 or so years ago.

And then lets understand that black folks STILL have to deal with the results of this. All one has to do is look on THIS fucking board to see that racism is STILL an issue. One that us white folks aren't affected by but black folks confront every day

So where does that leave us?

Clearly it's a difficult question. And no one running for President is proposing that we "cut a check" to "pay for this.

That's a HUGE understanding..

Someone has very clearly focused grouped "reparations" and found that people are against direct cash payments to "fix" this.

Again. No Presidential candidates are proposing that and that changes the discussion dramatically.

So what does that leave? What are the "reparations" being proposed?

I have heard NO actual proposals. NONE.

I happen to be a project manager who deals with Federal contracts. As part of satisfying the requirements for submitting bids, a contractor has to satisfy requirements for "attempting to acquire" sub contractors who fall into minority and women owned businesses. You don't have to fulfill the "required" 15%. You have to show that you "tried".

And the reason for that is that there simply aren't enough businesses that meet those requirements. Think about that. There are just not enough businesses owned by minority folks and women to meet that 15% requirement!

That's an issue...and that's a problem.

So how do we fix that?

Low interest/no interest loans and grants.

As a small business owner...I can tell you that those are simply not available to ANYONE. They are just not there for anyone and they would result in middle class business growth and job growth.

Do we target them at all low income businesses? Do we do that AND make an emphasis towards minority/women owned business?

I say we do ALL of that.

Small business is he engine of Democracy

And THAT is what Kamala Harris is talking about

You make your living from the federal government. Why am I not surprised? And you have a vested interest in racial policies for federal work.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Years ago many people were discriminated against for one reason or another. European Americans were always very segregated people. When I grew up, there was a German section of town, a Polish section, a Slovenian section, an Italian section.......

My father is a retired bricklayer. He joined construction after he got out of the service and fell in love with the trade. It didn't come easy though.

In spite of needed labor, the union would not allow my father to become a bricklayer. When refused, he simply went back asking for an explanation. So they had a board hearing. Finally, a member of the board told my father the reason he was refused is because he was of Polish descent, and they didn't want Polish people in the trade. In their opinion, Polish people were slow and didn't catch on very quickly.

As my father got up to leave, he told them that he was a Marine, and Marines are determined to reach their destination. He will become a bricklayer with or without them; his Polish ass didn't survive a year in Korea because he was a quitter.

At that point, several members who were also vets asked if he would join. But if not for that, he would have never been allowed to learn a trade he loved so dearly all his life.

View attachment 248380

That’s a great story about your dad, inspirational. But it also doesn’t relate to the experience that blacks went through for GENERATIONS because of the LAWS of our country.

There have been 4 major systemic human rights abuses by our country that come to mind. Slavery and Jim Crow for blacks, women’s rights, Native Americans, and LGBT. Corrections for these have been evolving over the years and are deserved. When people like you dismiss and deamonize these efforts it is unwarranted and counterproductive

Yes, poor immigrants from everywhere have also faced challenges. My great grandfather came over from Sicily with nickels in his pockets and made his way through hard work and many challenges. But this still doesn’t compare to the examples I used above.

What you are asking for is to make reparations for hurdles that others have jumped.

If Jim Crow or Civil Rights were a new thing, you and others may have a point; those people were held back. But nobody born the last 50 years or more has faced any of those challenges; just like I didn't face my fathers challenges.

My life began when I took my first breath and will end when I take my last. What I do between that time is entirely up to me--not my father, grandfather nor the environment they lived in.

You haven’t heard me ask for any reparations, yet you oppose what I’m saying and claim I’m asking for them. I don’t think you are listening. This is the problem. All I’ve asked you to do is acknowledge and recognize our history. That is all most people of color would need as well. Coming at these issues from the side of understanding goes a long way. Then when it comes to actual items of reparations or affirmative action we can make the smartest decisions for our country. Maybe a good solution is building a youth center in the heart of a low income black neighborhood. Or investing in their schools. Or offering an adult trade school education for low income workers. Would you be supposed to those initiatives? I hope not. Stuff that that can be consensus solutions. But too many wingnuts like to keep the racial fights alive. It’s a shame

These things are already available to all Americans of any race. You can go to trade school if you like, but pay for it yourself. If your schools are less than adequate, you can put tax levies on the ballot for more funding of your local schools. Anybody with a high school diploma and physically fit can join our military where you earn lots of benefits and can even retire by the time you're 40 with a great pension.

First you say you are not for reparations and then say when it comes time for reparations, then we can do it the smartest way. Sure sounds like you're for reparations to me.

Youth centers are all over this country, especially in lower income areas, and they didn't do any good. It's just another place to sell drugs or shoot people in the parking lot. The problem with blacks is not history, the problem with blacks are the present. Single-parent households, teenage mothers, several baby daddies, lack of involvement in their children's education are all part of what keeps them down; not what happened to their grandparents.

I don’t tend to say I’m for or against generized things. I need to look at the situation and the proposal. So when people propose reparations my first reaction is to acknowledge their reasoning for wanting them... which seems to be the point where you get combative and stall the conversation... and then I look for the best solutions which I’m general I’d support improvements to education and community programs. Show me a specific reparation or affirmative action law and I can tell you if I’m for or against it.

I think most of the time you are fighting against something that isn’t even there

What I'm fighting for is common sense.

I too ask why people would want reparations, but my answer is more down to earth: votes.

That's all this is, another Santa Claus moment where Democrat politicians promise more government goodies from the present sack while at the same time, reinforcing their past messages how you couldn't do it because you're a victim, and you have a valid excuse for being a failure. That's why you need us........Democrats; to make things equal for people just like you.

 

[Lesh]

Someone has very clearly focused grouped "reparations" and found that people are against direct cash payments to "fix" this.

Again. ONLY ONE candidate has proposed anything is close to cash payments and he is a non-factor. Castro. That changes the discussion dramatically.

So what does that leave? What are the "reparations" being proposed?

I have heard NO actual proposals. NONE.

I happen to be a project manager who deals with Federal contracts. As part of satisfying the requirements for submitting bids, a contractor has to satisfy requirements for "attempting to acquire" sub contractors who fall into minority and women owned businesses. You don't have to fulfill the "required" 15%. You have to show that you "tried".

And the reason for that is that there simply aren't enough businesses that meet those requirements. Think about that. There are just not enough businesses owned by minority folks and women to meet that 15% requirement!

That's an issue...and that's a problem.

So how do we fix that?

Low interest/no interest loans and grants.

As a small business owner...I can tell you that those are simply not available to ANYONE. They are just not there for anyone and they would result in middle class business growth and job growth.

Do we target them at all low income businesses? Do we do that AND make an emphasis towards minority/women owned business?

I say we do ALL of that.

Small business is he engine of Democracy

And THAT is what is being talked about

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Someone has very clearly focused grouped "reparations" and found that people are against direct cash payments to "fix" this.

Again. ONLY ONE candidate has proposed anything is close to cash payments and he is a non-factor. Castro. That changes the discussion dramatically.

So what does that leave? What are the "reparations" being proposed?

I have heard NO actual proposals. NONE.

I happen to be a project manager who deals with Federal contracts. As part of satisfying the requirements for submitting bids, a contractor has to satisfy requirements for "attempting to acquire" sub contractors who fall into minority and women owned businesses. You don't have to fulfill the "required" 15%. You have to show that you "tried".

And the reason for that is that there simply aren't enough businesses that meet those requirements. Think about that. There are just not enough businesses owned by minority folks and women to meet that 15% requirement!

That's an issue...and that's a problem.

So how do we fix that?

Low interest/no interest loans and grants.

As a small business owner...I can tell you that those are simply not available to ANYONE. They are just not there for anyone and they would result in middle class business growth and job growth.

Do we target them at all low income businesses? Do we do that AND make an emphasis towards minority/women owned business?

I say we do ALL of that.

Small business is he engine of Democracy

And THAT is what is being talked about

You can't turn a common blue-collar worker into a business owner, just like you can't turn a football player into a doctor, a scientist into a professional wrestler, an accountant into a solder, a grounds keeper into an astronaut.

You people on the left tried to pull off something similar in the housing market. Give minorities loans with no credit check or those who have bad credit, and we will make everybody a homeowner.

Minorities in particular ruined their credit so bad they many may never own a house for the rest of their lives, and might not be able to get credit anywhere else either; at least not for a reasonable interest rate.

It takes more than getting a loan to start a business, and most small businesses fail within the first couple of years. What your proposal is that you lure people into taking loans they will eventually default on just like home ownership, and then shrug your shoulders saying "Oh well! We were trying to do the right thing" when in fact you did them more harm than good in the end.

 

[Slade3200]

That’s a great story about your dad, inspirational. But it also doesn’t relate to the experience that blacks went through for GENERATIONS because of the LAWS of our country.

There have been 4 major systemic human rights abuses by our country that come to mind. Slavery and Jim Crow for blacks, women’s rights, Native Americans, and LGBT. Corrections for these have been evolving over the years and are deserved. When people like you dismiss and deamonize these efforts it is unwarranted and counterproductive

Yes, poor immigrants from everywhere have also faced challenges. My great grandfather came over from Sicily with nickels in his pockets and made his way through hard work and many challenges. But this still doesn’t compare to the examples I used above.

What you are asking for is to make reparations for hurdles that others have jumped.

If Jim Crow or Civil Rights were a new thing, you and others may have a point; those people were held back. But nobody born the last 50 years or more has faced any of those challenges; just like I didn't face my fathers challenges.

My life began when I took my first breath and will end when I take my last. What I do between that time is entirely up to me--not my father, grandfather nor the environment they lived in.

You haven’t heard me ask for any reparations, yet you oppose what I’m saying and claim I’m asking for them. I don’t think you are listening. This is the problem. All I’ve asked you to do is acknowledge and recognize our history. That is all most people of color would need as well. Coming at these issues from the side of understanding goes a long way. Then when it comes to actual items of reparations or affirmative action we can make the smartest decisions for our country. Maybe a good solution is building a youth center in the heart of a low income black neighborhood. Or investing in their schools. Or offering an adult trade school education for low income workers. Would you be supposed to those initiatives? I hope not. Stuff that that can be consensus solutions. But too many wingnuts like to keep the racial fights alive. It’s a shame

These things are already available to all Americans of any race. You can go to trade school if you like, but pay for it yourself. If your schools are less than adequate, you can put tax levies on the ballot for more funding of your local schools. Anybody with a high school diploma and physically fit can join our military where you earn lots of benefits and can even retire by the time you're 40 with a great pension.

First you say you are not for reparations and then say when it comes time for reparations, then we can do it the smartest way. Sure sounds like you're for reparations to me.

Youth centers are all over this country, especially in lower income areas, and they didn't do any good. It's just another place to sell drugs or shoot people in the parking lot. The problem with blacks is not history, the problem with blacks are the present. Single-parent households, teenage mothers, several baby daddies, lack of involvement in their children's education are all part of what keeps them down; not what happened to their grandparents.

I don’t tend to say I’m for or against generized things. I need to look at the situation and the proposal. So when people propose reparations my first reaction is to acknowledge their reasoning for wanting them... which seems to be the point where you get combative and stall the conversation... and then I look for the best solutions which I’m general I’d support improvements to education and community programs. Show me a specific reparation or affirmative action law and I can tell you if I’m for or against it.

I think most of the time you are fighting against something that isn’t even there

What I'm fighting for is common sense.

I too ask why people would want reparations, but my answer is more down to earth: votes.

That's all this is, another Santa Claus moment where Democrat politicians promise more government goodies from the present sack while at the same time, reinforcing their past messages how you couldn't do it because you're a victim, and you have a valid excuse for being a failure. That's why you need us........Democrats; to make things equal for people just like you.

That’s a weak partisan narrative. You are trying to demean and deminish because you disagree with policy but you are not engaging in an honest way. You are attacking generalities and applying extreme viewpoints to the masses. Here is a newsflash, It is possible to be liberal, even a democrat and not support every proposed entitlement. In fact I know many Dems that really want entitlement reform. It’s a shame the republicans are too busy demonizing and not interested in trying to understand and work together to find solutions.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What you are asking for is to make reparations for hurdles that others have jumped.

If Jim Crow or Civil Rights were a new thing, you and others may have a point; those people were held back. But nobody born the last 50 years or more has faced any of those challenges; just like I didn't face my fathers challenges.

My life began when I took my first breath and will end when I take my last. What I do between that time is entirely up to me--not my father, grandfather nor the environment they lived in.

You haven’t heard me ask for any reparations, yet you oppose what I’m saying and claim I’m asking for them. I don’t think you are listening. This is the problem. All I’ve asked you to do is acknowledge and recognize our history. That is all most people of color would need as well. Coming at these issues from the side of understanding goes a long way. Then when it comes to actual items of reparations or affirmative action we can make the smartest decisions for our country. Maybe a good solution is building a youth center in the heart of a low income black neighborhood. Or investing in their schools. Or offering an adult trade school education for low income workers. Would you be supposed to those initiatives? I hope not. Stuff that that can be consensus solutions. But too many wingnuts like to keep the racial fights alive. It’s a shame

These things are already available to all Americans of any race. You can go to trade school if you like, but pay for it yourself. If your schools are less than adequate, you can put tax levies on the ballot for more funding of your local schools. Anybody with a high school diploma and physically fit can join our military where you earn lots of benefits and can even retire by the time you're 40 with a great pension.

First you say you are not for reparations and then say when it comes time for reparations, then we can do it the smartest way. Sure sounds like you're for reparations to me.

Youth centers are all over this country, especially in lower income areas, and they didn't do any good. It's just another place to sell drugs or shoot people in the parking lot. The problem with blacks is not history, the problem with blacks are the present. Single-parent households, teenage mothers, several baby daddies, lack of involvement in their children's education are all part of what keeps them down; not what happened to their grandparents.

I don’t tend to say I’m for or against generized things. I need to look at the situation and the proposal. So when people propose reparations my first reaction is to acknowledge their reasoning for wanting them... which seems to be the point where you get combative and stall the conversation... and then I look for the best solutions which I’m general I’d support improvements to education and community programs. Show me a specific reparation or affirmative action law and I can tell you if I’m for or against it.

I think most of the time you are fighting against something that isn’t even there

What I'm fighting for is common sense.

I too ask why people would want reparations, but my answer is more down to earth: votes.

That's all this is, another Santa Claus moment where Democrat politicians promise more government goodies from the present sack while at the same time, reinforcing their past messages how you couldn't do it because you're a victim, and you have a valid excuse for being a failure. That's why you need us........Democrats; to make things equal for people just like you.

That’s a weak partisan narrative. You are trying to demean and deminish because you disagree with policy but you are not engaging in an honest way. You are attacking generalities and applying extreme viewpoints to the masses. Here is a newsflash, It is possible to be liberal, even a democrat and not support every proposed entitlement. In fact I know many Dems that really want entitlement reform. It’s a shame the republicans are too busy demonizing and not interested in trying to understand and work together to find solutions.

The only solution as far as a Democrat is concerned is doing things the Democrat way. Just look at this border fence issue.

We spend more on food stamps in one month than Trump is asking for just one time. They even let the government shutdown not to give into Trump's request. These people do not negotiate anything unless it's to screw the Republicans to the wall and have to give up very little.

Now what Democrats want entitlement reform that the Republicans are not entertaining? I never heard anything about it.

 

[Kondor3]

Someone has very clearly focused grouped "reparations" and found that people are against direct cash payments to "fix" this.

Again. ONLY ONE candidate has proposed anything is close to cash payments and he is a non-factor. Castro. That changes the discussion dramatically.

So what does that leave? What are the "reparations" being proposed?

I have heard NO actual proposals. NONE.

I happen to be a project manager who deals with Federal contracts. As part of satisfying the requirements for submitting bids, a contractor has to satisfy requirements for "attempting to acquire" sub contractors who fall into minority and women owned businesses. You don't have to fulfill the "required" 15%. You have to show that you "tried".

And the reason for that is that there simply aren't enough businesses that meet those requirements. Think about that. There are just not enough businesses owned by minority folks and women to meet that 15% requirement!

That's an issue...and that's a problem.

So how do we fix that?

Low interest/no interest loans and grants.

As a small business owner...I can tell you that those are simply not available to ANYONE. They are just not there for anyone and they would result in middle class business growth and job growth.

Do we target them at all low income businesses? Do we do that AND make an emphasis towards minority/women owned business?

I say we do ALL of that.

Small business is he engine of Democracy

And THAT is what is being talked about

Pearls before swine... total waste of money.

 

[Slade3200]

You haven’t heard me ask for any reparations, yet you oppose what I’m saying and claim I’m asking for them. I don’t think you are listening. This is the problem. All I’ve asked you to do is acknowledge and recognize our history. That is all most people of color would need as well. Coming at these issues from the side of understanding goes a long way. Then when it comes to actual items of reparations or affirmative action we can make the smartest decisions for our country. Maybe a good solution is building a youth center in the heart of a low income black neighborhood. Or investing in their schools. Or offering an adult trade school education for low income workers. Would you be supposed to those initiatives? I hope not. Stuff that that can be consensus solutions. But too many wingnuts like to keep the racial fights alive. It’s a shame

These things are already available to all Americans of any race. You can go to trade school if you like, but pay for it yourself. If your schools are less than adequate, you can put tax levies on the ballot for more funding of your local schools. Anybody with a high school diploma and physically fit can join our military where you earn lots of benefits and can even retire by the time you're 40 with a great pension.

First you say you are not for reparations and then say when it comes time for reparations, then we can do it the smartest way. Sure sounds like you're for reparations to me.

Youth centers are all over this country, especially in lower income areas, and they didn't do any good. It's just another place to sell drugs or shoot people in the parking lot. The problem with blacks is not history, the problem with blacks are the present. Single-parent households, teenage mothers, several baby daddies, lack of involvement in their children's education are all part of what keeps them down; not what happened to their grandparents.

I don’t tend to say I’m for or against generized things. I need to look at the situation and the proposal. So when people propose reparations my first reaction is to acknowledge their reasoning for wanting them... which seems to be the point where you get combative and stall the conversation... and then I look for the best solutions which I’m general I’d support improvements to education and community programs. Show me a specific reparation or affirmative action law and I can tell you if I’m for or against it.

I think most of the time you are fighting against something that isn’t even there

What I'm fighting for is common sense.

I too ask why people would want reparations, but my answer is more down to earth: votes.

That's all this is, another Santa Claus moment where Democrat politicians promise more government goodies from the present sack while at the same time, reinforcing their past messages how you couldn't do it because you're a victim, and you have a valid excuse for being a failure. That's why you need us........Democrats; to make things equal for people just like you.

That’s a weak partisan narrative. You are trying to demean and deminish because you disagree with policy but you are not engaging in an honest way. You are attacking generalities and applying extreme viewpoints to the masses. Here is a newsflash, It is possible to be liberal, even a democrat and not support every proposed entitlement. In fact I know many Dems that really want entitlement reform. It’s a shame the republicans are too busy demonizing and not interested in trying to understand and work together to find solutions.

The only solution as far as a Democrat is concerned is doing things the Democrat way. Just look at this border fence issue.

We spend more on food stamps in one month than Trump is asking for just one time. They even let the government shutdown not to give into Trump's request. These people do not negotiate anything unless it's to screw the Republicans to the wall and have to give up very little.

Now what Democrats want entitlement reform that the Republicans are not entertaining? I never heard anything about it.

The border issue is the same as everything else, stagnant because both sides are lying and demonizing each other. Trump spent two years talking shot about the Dems and now they aren’t going to do anything to help him. He made that bed. McConnell did everything he could to block Obama, repeal Obamacare, and even block a SCOTUS nomination. So now Dems are doing the tit for tat baby games. Both sides are acting like children. When you and I talk about issues and I hear you use those tactics I can’t help but call them out

 

[Lesh]

Someone has very clearly focused grouped "reparations" and found that people are against direct cash payments to "fix" this.

Again. ONLY ONE candidate has proposed anything is close to cash payments and he is a non-factor. Castro. That changes the discussion dramatically.

So what does that leave? What are the "reparations" being proposed?

I have heard NO actual proposals. NONE.

I happen to be a project manager who deals with Federal contracts. As part of satisfying the requirements for submitting bids, a contractor has to satisfy requirements for "attempting to acquire" sub contractors who fall into minority and women owned businesses. You don't have to fulfill the "required" 15%. You have to show that you "tried".

And the reason for that is that there simply aren't enough businesses that meet those requirements. Think about that. There are just not enough businesses owned by minority folks and women to meet that 15% requirement!

That's an issue...and that's a problem.

So how do we fix that?

Low interest/no interest loans and grants.

As a small business owner...I can tell you that those are simply not available to ANYONE. They are just not there for anyone and they would result in middle class business growth and job growth.

Do we target them at all low income businesses? Do we do that AND make an emphasis towards minority/women owned business?

I say we do ALL of that.

Small business is he engine of Democracy

And THAT is what is being talked about

Pearls before swine... total waste of money.

Promoting small business is a waste of money?

On what planet?

 

[Markle]

Promoting small business is a waste of money?

On what planet?

Planet Progressive!