Repeal the 17th Amendment!

[Listening]

I love how we are talking about a system for the 21st century and we still get the blatherings about the mid 1800's.

Regardless of how it worked, the intention was still clear.

What is more obvious is that today's senate is a mess and needs to be changed around.

Propose getting rid of direct election and all of sudden our unlikable senate suddenly becomes very palitable.

It is hyertical.

If BHO proposed it, the asshats on this board could not rush fast enough to get it done.

 

[Oddball]

The odd one better go study Henry Clay's American Plan, pushed by almost every Whig Senator, to get the feds to underwrite internal improvement. Odd's lack of comprehension re: the American narrative is breath taking.

Henry Clay wasn't a constitutional framer, nincompoop.

The only thing breathtaking is your ham-handed attempt to move the goalposts.

 

[rightwinger]

What doesn't happen with appointed Senators is out-of-control federal spending and bureaucratic bloat, as apportionment meant that state agencies were the ones collecting and forwarding all federal taxes....Hence, Senators had very strong motivation to keep the HoR in check and the feds in their box.

Since the passage of the 16th and 17th Amendments, the size of the federal gubmint has swelled from a scant few percent of GDP to very nearly 1/4....This is no coincidence.

Nonsense...

The era of the 1800s were some of the most corrupt in our history. An appointed Senator has no worries about facing the taxpayer and accounting for his performance. All he has to do is ensure that his party remains in power at the state level.

The federal government has swelled since the early 1900s because we became a modern democracy and a global superpower. The well being of the people is much better than it was in the 19th century you covet

You're changing the nature of the argument.

Nobody here said that appointed Senators wouldn't be subject to corruption...As though the clear corruption going on today is any better a deal.

The point is that state legislature appointment of Senators was a check and balance against federal bureaucracy and spending getting out of control and consuming as much of the GDP as it is today....A check against federal power that was removed by the 17th Amendment.

Your assertion that America became a "modern democracy" is notwithstanding...Mob rule is mob rule, no matter the time frame involved.

Now the people of the state are the check and balance against federal bureaucracy instead of state legislatures........I like it better

 

[Listening]

Now the people of the state are the check and balance against federal bureaucracy instead of state legislatures........I like it better

Oh Hey !!!

That is really working for us.

 

[rightwinger]

I love how we are talking about a system for the 21st century and we still get the blatherings about the mid 1800's.

Regardless of how it worked, the intention was still clear.

What is more obvious is that today's senate is a mess and needs to be changed around.

Propose getting rid of direct election and all of sudden our unlikable senate suddenly becomes very palitable.

It is hyertical.

If BHO proposed it, the asshats on this board could not rush fast enough to get it done.

The Senate is a mess because filibuster abuse makes it necessary to get 60% of the vote to pass legislation

 

[Listening]

Why Repeal 17th Amendment?

How many times have you had your U.S. Senator approach you and discuss impending legislation with you? Even though you voted for them, they probably did not contact you once. But how many times do you suppose they contacted Enron about impending legislation. Enron and other corporations financed their campaigns, to the tune of millions of dollars, to get you to vote these senators into office. You can safely bet that your U.S. Senators discuss impending legislation with these corporations on a routine basis.

How often do U.S. Senators discuss federal affairs with your state legislator? I am still looking for a state legislator who has been contacted by their U.S. Senator regarding federal affairs.

Prior to the enactment of the 17th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution the U.S. Senators discussed federal affairs with their state legislators on a regular basis. At THAT time U.S. Senators did not have to raise millions of dollars to run for office. They were not beholden to the large corporations.

There is no way our U.S. Senators are going to personally discuss federal affairs with, and handle the input from, 900,000 people. The only choice we have before us is to have them discuss our federal affairs with the State Legislatures as opposed to the large corporations. As originally included in the U.S. Constitution, the people of the states will continue to enjoy the right to vote for their U.S. Representatives.

I am including the final version of my presentation which I gave today before the Montana Senate Judiciary Committee.

 

[rightwinger]

Now the people of the state are the check and balance against federal bureaucracy instead of state legislatures........I like it better

Oh Hey !!!

That is really working for us.

Works better than it did under the old system

 

[Oddball]

Nonsense...

The era of the 1800s were some of the most corrupt in our history. An appointed Senator has no worries about facing the taxpayer and accounting for his performance. All he has to do is ensure that his party remains in power at the state level.

The federal government has swelled since the early 1900s because we became a modern democracy and a global superpower. The well being of the people is much better than it was in the 19th century you covet

You're changing the nature of the argument.

Nobody here said that appointed Senators wouldn't be subject to corruption...As though the clear corruption going on today is any better a deal.

The point is that state legislature appointment of Senators was a check and balance against federal bureaucracy and spending getting out of control and consuming as much of the GDP as it is today....A check against federal power that was removed by the 17th Amendment.

Your assertion that America became a "modern democracy" is notwithstanding...Mob rule is mob rule, no matter the time frame involved.

Now the people of the state are the check and balance against federal bureaucracy instead of state legislatures........I like it better

Like fucking hell they are.

Senators are now mere national party man hack tools just like House Representatives...Like I said, bicameral mobocracy.

 

[Listening]

Now the people of the state are the check and balance against federal bureaucracy instead of state legislatures........I like it better

Oh Hey !!!

That is really working for us.

Works better than it did under the old system

Only if your idea of "working better" is to allow most power to flow to Washington D.C.

As usual, we find that the discussion boils down to who you want running your life.

Most liberals seem to think the morons we complain about are worthy of even more power. Hell, let them run health care.

Whereas most conservatives (not including GWB) feel that states powers and a corrleated model at an even smaller level is better. And all of that is only with minimal input. My vote for my state senator is roughly 100 times more powerful than my vote form fedeal senator.

And my state legislator knows me by name. My federal senators only know their lobbyists by name....

But that system is working better !!!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Oh Hey !!!

That is really working for us.

Works better than it did under the old system

Only if your idea of "working better" is to allow most power to flow to Washington D.C.

As usual, we find that the discussion boils down to who you want running your life.

Most liberals seem to think the morons we complain about are worthy of even more power. Hell, let them run health care.

Whereas most conservatives (not including GWB) feel that states powers and a corrleated model at an even smaller level is better. And all of that is only with minimal input. My vote for my state senator is roughly 100 times more powerful than my vote form fedeal senator.

And my state legislator knows me by name. My federal senators only know their lobbyists by name....

But that system is working better !!!

alert!

 

[rightwinger]

Why Repeal 17th Amendment?

How many times have you had your U.S. Senator approach you and discuss impending legislation with you? Even though you voted for them, they probably did not contact you once. But how many times do you suppose they contacted Enron about impending legislation. Enron and other corporations financed their campaigns, to the tune of millions of dollars, to get you to vote these senators into office. You can safely bet that your U.S. Senators discuss impending legislation with these corporations on a routine basis.

How often do U.S. Senators discuss federal affairs with your state legislator? I am still looking for a state legislator who has been contacted by their U.S. Senator regarding federal affairs.

Prior to the enactment of the 17th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution the U.S. Senators discussed federal affairs with their state legislators on a regular basis. At THAT time U.S. Senators did not have to raise millions of dollars to run for office. They were not beholden to the large corporations.

There is no way our U.S. Senators are going to personally discuss federal affairs with, and handle the input from, 900,000 people. The only choice we have before us is to have them discuss our federal affairs with the State Legislatures as opposed to the large corporations. As originally included in the U.S. Constitution, the people of the states will continue to enjoy the right to vote for their U.S. Representatives.

I am including the final version of my presentation which I gave today before the Montana Senate Judiciary Committee.

I expect my US Senator to decide Federal issues and my State legislators to decide state issues. I see no need for them to confer.

 

[rightwinger]

You're changing the nature of the argument.

Nobody here said that appointed Senators wouldn't be subject to corruption...As though the clear corruption going on today is any better a deal.

The point is that state legislature appointment of Senators was a check and balance against federal bureaucracy and spending getting out of control and consuming as much of the GDP as it is today....A check against federal power that was removed by the 17th Amendment.

Your assertion that America became a "modern democracy" is notwithstanding...Mob rule is mob rule, no matter the time frame involved.

Now the people of the state are the check and balance against federal bureaucracy instead of state legislatures........I like it better

Like fucking hell they are.

Senators are now mere national party man hack tools just like House Representatives...Like I said, bicameral mobocracy.

And appointed Senators are state party hack tools.......I'd prefer the people have the right to vote them out of office rather than leave it to state political hacks

 

[Oddball]

Now the people of the state are the check and balance against federal bureaucracy instead of state legislatures........I like it better

Like fucking hell they are.

Senators are now mere national party man hack tools just like House Representatives...Like I said, bicameral mobocracy.

And appointed Senators are state party hack tools.......I'd prefer the people have the right to vote them out of office rather than leave it to state political hacks

Except that they don't get voted out of office....They're basically lifetime offices, unless you get caught with the proverbial live boy or dead woman.

With state appointment, you'd get defacto term limits based upon the changing nature of who controls the states.

But I guess you liberoidals are perfectly fine with being lorded over by a completely detached an unaccountable elite few, just as long as they carry that (D) by their names.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The odd one better go study Henry Clay's American Plan, pushed by almost every Whig Senator, to get the feds to underwrite internal improvement. Odd's lack of comprehension re: the American narrative is breath taking.

The Oddball Dude, is maybe the most ignorant poster @ USMB

 

[freedombecki]

What doesn't happen with appointed Senators is out-of-control federal spending and bureaucratic bloat, as apportionment meant that state agencies were the ones collecting and forwarding all federal taxes....Hence, Senators had very strong motivation to keep the HoR in check and the feds in their box.

Since the passage of the 16th and 17th Amendments, the size of the federal gubmint has swelled from a scant few percent of GDP to very nearly 1/4....This is no coincidence.

Nonsense...

The era of the 1800s were some of the most corrupt in our history. An appointed Senator has no worries about facing the taxpayer and accounting for his performance. All he has to do is ensure that his party remains in power at the state level.

The federal government has swelled since the early 1900s because we became a modern democracy and a global superpower. The well being of the people is much better than it was in the 19th century you covet

You're changing the nature of the argument.

Nobody here said that appointed Senators wouldn't be subject to corruption...As though the clear corruption going on today is any better a deal.

The point is that state legislature appointment of Senators was a check and balance against federal bureaucracy and spending getting out of control and consuming as much of the GDP as it is today....A check against federal power that was removed by the 17th Amendment.

Your assertion that America became a "modern democracy" is notwithstanding...Mob rule is mob rule, no matter the time frame involved.

A model of this is punctuated by a House Speaker misusing power to demand that Congress not worry about what's written in the 5-ream mass of papers the Health Care bill was, just pass.

Huh?

That's Congress gone haywire. Then popularly-elected majority Senators did likewise because corrupt election officials in Minnesota took away a Republican seat by "finding just enough votes" for their Democrat candidate to "win". Votes that weren't cast before the end of the voting was completed. The whine and scream on the left was "the right doesn't want these 'lost' votes to count," and of course, the manufactured votes were crammed down America's throat to give the far leftest former Senator, President Barack Obama his bill, that lacked public scrutiny from its massive size.

That was a crime against America disguised as something good for old folks and uninsured children. It will cost trillions of dollars.

Insuring those people would have cost less than 30 million dollars.

The padding in the bill will put a very fewpeople with a lot of spending money in their pockets.

That's because there was not a state-appointed Senate who would have seen through that nation-breaker. The nation breaker part is unionization of all medical personnel in the USA to strike, leave the sick while they take hiatus to riot, and paying customers still paying a premium to be last in line.

I visited an Obama-run IRS office last year. I arrived when the doors opened, was given a ticket after waiting for 2 hours on bone spurred feet to get a calling ticket. My ticket was the last ticket called at 4:30. Those people wanted to go home, so they called the last person who sat in that office for another 6 hours after getting out of the line. They called all the people who arrived after me before me, and others near me, too. Their claim was that my request was "complicated." 15 minutes after I sat down with an irs agent, my question was answered, I signed the necessary form and was sent out the door with my taxes paid and my business was done.

That's a change for the better?

I saw this: while I waited all day, people were taking half hour breaks in the morning with someone coming around to do their job while they went to coffee. I saw lunch rotations, and an hour later, more half-hour breaks.

The people who worked were having a lark. 150 people, some of who were in as much pain as me, were treated like wallpaper someone would rather not look at.

Feh.

 

[freedombecki]

The odd one better go study Henry Clay's American Plan, pushed by almost every Whig Senator, to get the feds to underwrite internal improvement. Odd's lack of comprehension re: the American narrative is breath taking.

The Oddball Dude, is maybe the most ignorant poster @ USMB

freedombecki's unspin machine of leftist code language (last 2 sentences) "Oops, there's a bright rightie in the room who gets what happened to the Constitution. Watch yourself around those mentally mature conservative patriots of what caused America's present decline, and play like he is dumb."

See, Dante, I know how you spin room guys are.

 

[Oddball]

The odd one better go study Henry Clay's American Plan, pushed by almost every Whig Senator, to get the feds to underwrite internal improvement. Odd's lack of comprehension re: the American narrative is breath taking.

The Oddball Dude, is maybe the most ignorant poster @ USMB

Why don't you Google Henry Clay, compare the dates, and tell us all how he was able to be involved in setting up the constitutional structure for the legislative branch?

C'mon....School us all, dickweed.

 

[freedombecki]

The odd one better go study Henry Clay's American Plan, pushed by almost every Whig Senator, to get the feds to underwrite internal improvement. Odd's lack of comprehension re: the American narrative is breath taking.

The Oddball Dude, is maybe the most ignorant poster @ USMB

Why don't you Google Henry Clay, compare the dates, and tell us all how he was able to be involved in setting up the constitutional structure for the legislative branch?

C'mon....School us all, dickweed.

Outta the park!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The odd one better go study Henry Clay's American Plan, pushed by almost every Whig Senator, to get the feds to underwrite internal improvement. Odd's lack of comprehension re: the American narrative is breath taking.

The Oddball Dude, is maybe the most ignorant poster @ USMB

Why don't you Google Henry Clay, compare the dates, and tell us all how he was able to be involved in setting up the constitutional structure for the legislative branch?

C'mon....School us all, dickweed.

Google?

 

[freedombecki]

The Oddball Dude, is maybe the most ignorant poster @ USMB

Why don't you Google Henry Clay, compare the dates, and tell us all how he was able to be involved in setting up the constitutional structure for the legislative branch?

C'mon....School us all, dickweed.

Google?

You really don't know what to do, do you, Mr. Dante, except to pm opposition posters with 5-letter insults.