Republicans and the Affordable Care Act

[Oddball]

Actually, healthcare is in many ways, monopolized, and not governed by market forces. An example is the little (oops, huge) gift to Big Pharma we've come to know and love as Medicare Part D, or the Prescription Drug Bill ... oft sighted as the worst piece of legislation ever passed, fiscally speaking. No bidding on prescription drugs, as all other countries can, so we pay their asking price, whatever it is. And that's not a marketplace. It's a legislated monopoly, in effect.

Exactly. We need to bust up the monopoly, not turn it into a government sponsored cartel.

No, no, no, no, nonononono!

To the committed progressive socialist, failure of authoritarian central control is evidence that more authoritarian central control is called for!

Get with the program!

 

[Political Junky]

Why the Right Turned Its Back on the Individual Mandate - The Daily Beast

 

[TakeAStepBack]

^ Damn right. You can never have enough central planning/control!

 

[Oddball]

We need a law requiring doctors to stabilize life threatened patients regardless of ability based on trauma/condition.

Maybe a loss of medical license for any patient not saved, or maybe send them to the clink.

It's called the Hippocratic Oath...Everyone down to EMT-B students take it.

Add to that: we also need both govt and citizens to sign agreements to pay the costs of any violations or abuses that otherwise put a burden on other taxpayers. In other words a "non-hypocrite" oath. So if you want the privileges of rights and freedoms as a US citizen, you cannot abuse law or due process to violate the same rights/freedoms of others. If you use a gun, by the Second Amendment you respect the same rules as a "well-regulated militia" and go through the same training and oath as a police or military officer defending Constitutional law and never abusing firearms or authority to commit crimes. If you use the legal system, you respect the equal due process of others, and never abuse it to obstruct justice and defy equal protections of the law for others; especially if you want the state to pay for your defense and the taxpayers to pay for the costs of prosecution, courts or prison.

Violent antisocial acts perpetrated with firearms are still illegal and subject to loss of one's freedom....Nothing further is called for from the law abiding.

 

[AmyNation]

Obama was reelected, and the ACA will stay. I would like to see the GOP start working to address the flaws in Obamacare since replacing it with RomneyCare is out( not that I was looking forward to that option either).

What do you think are the odds that they will work to amend it and stop wasting time and tax payer money trying to scrap it? Also, thoughts on what the 1st change to the ACA should be?

Defund it.

I don't see that happening.

I guess I am at a point other posters clearly aren't. I accept that there is no way for the GOP to repeal the ACA. It is law, and by the time they may have enough votes, it will be too late.

I like the idea of everyone paying for their own damn healthcare, instead of soaking up my tax dollars visiting the ER whenever they have a problem. I like parts of the ACA, but I also dislike parts.


I want a bipartisan effort to fix it, but I'm seeing I might as well be asking for the moon.

 

[Koios]

Oh, suuuuuure...The fact that a gubmint program costs more than 10 times more than it was claimed to (counting inflation, BTW), it's all the fault of the marketplace!

Goddamn, are you Marxist stooges a hoot!

Actually, healthcare is in many ways, monopolized, and not governed by market forces. An example is the little (oops, huge) gift to Big Pharma we've come to know and love as Medicare Part D, or the Prescription Drug Bill ... oft sighted as the worst piece of legislation ever passed, fiscally speaking. No bidding on prescription drugs, as all other countries can, so we pay their asking price, whatever it is. And that's not a marketplace. It's a legislated monopoly, in effect.

Medicare D was the idea of socialist stooges like you....It only became a "giveaway to BigPharma" when a guy with an (R) by his name passed it.

Fact remains that the feds have never ever contained the costs of anything....In fact, the costs of everything they touch go through the roof.

Yet, somehow or another, we're supposed to believe that this time it's going to be different.

[image]

The Precription Drug Bill was championed by the Bush 43 Admin and Big Pharma, and not socialist stooges, like me.

Edit: as to the rest, I doubt you'd know a fact if it was giving you head.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Hospitals never practiced the kind of draconian nonsense you want to scare us with.

Sorry but considering I've PAID for my son's health insurance I don't think its fair for me to have to rely on charity and goodwill to get his emergency room bills paid for even temporarily.

Which is why EMTALA was, and is, unnecessary. But even if we leave it in place, it's not a significant driver of inflation because - as pretty much any doctor or hospital will tell you - it hasn't changed their practices. They didn't turn people away before, and they wouldn't afterward.

I'm sure most all doctors have no problem with saving the lives of patients who can't pay but the hospital administrators in charge of the hospitals bottom line do. Many hospitals are for-profit institutions and those that aren't can't run at a loss indefinitely. I'm not sure what kind of fantasy land you live in, but back in the real world the EMTALA was passed (at least partially) in response to an increase in the incidences of patient dumping in the 80's

JAMA Network | JAMA: The Journal of the American Medical Association | Patient DumpingStatus, Implications, and Policy Recommendations

Let's be clear here. You don't give a rat's ass about fiscal responsibility (frankly, you don't even comprehend its meaning). You want the opposite. You want everyone to be alleviated of the responsibility of paying for their own health care.

No, I don't. When you're ready to base your arguments on real world facts instead of just making them up as you see fit (including deciding for me what my own thoughts are) - let me know!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Attaboy, Oddball. Let's relive the 60s, shall we?

Now then, whoduh ever thunk that healthcare costs, driven largely by insurance costs, would outpace inflation by a factor of two, and approach nearly 20 cents of every dollar in our economy? Not me. And seemingly, not folks in LBJ's Admin. Go figure.

Meanwhile, in other of them commie-lefty regimes, like France, Switzerland, etc., who have single-payer and lack all the terrific cost saving / service improving benefits of a for-profit market, they pay about half and live longer while also having about half as many still-born little miracle, on average, as we do.

Go figure.

Oh, suuuuuure...The fact that a gubmint program costs more than 10 times more than it was claimed to (counting inflation, BTW), it's all the fault of the marketplace!

Goddamn, are you Marxist stooges a hoot!

Actually, healthcare is in many ways, monopolized, and not governed by market forces. An example is the little (oops, huge) gift to Big Pharma we've come to know and love as Medicare Part D, or the Prescription Drug Bill ... oft sighted as the worst piece of legislation ever passed, fiscally speaking. No bidding on prescription drugs, as all other countries can, so we pay their asking price, whatever it is. And that's not a marketplace. It's a legislated monopoly, in effect.

The Precription Drug Bill was championed by the Bush 43 Admin and Big Pharma, and not socialist stooges, like me.

Edit: as to the rest, I doubt you'd know a fact if it was giving you head.

and just WHO do you think broke his promise to deal with Big Pharma prices.....instead cut a self-serving deal with them that they just loved....and then got his Obamacare/campaign supported.....?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

^ Why are you repeating Oddball in different words?

Bush was a socialist stooge. He just happened to have an R, which is why it is a "big pharma give-away".

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

You aren't allowed to adjust your withholding willy nilly. Its perjury to lie on your withholding form.

At any rate - you are mistaken. The law only prohibits CRIMINAL penalties for failure to pay the penalty. The IRS may still garnish your wages and seize your bank assets. These are not criminal penalties. You will not go to prison nor have a criminal record - but your property will be seized in order to pay for it.

Are these just bad lies, or simple idiocy? Tell me, if you refuse to let them seize your property or garnish your wages or seize your bank account... hmmm, think they'll be any criminal charges then?

Preventing a federal agent from enforcing the law was a crime long before Obama took office you dimwit.

 

[Wacky Quacky]

i think being "either or" is being pretty shortsighted.....all one really needs to do is look at Universal healthcare history in other countries similar to the U.S......Great Britain for example....

the U.S. has always taken care of the poor and sick....it is only since we have taken on the poor of the whole world we are having problems....and Obamacare is not going to solve that...

Best thing about Britain's healthcare though, you can opt out if you want private insurance instead of government healthcare.

Every program needs to be like that, from healthcare to social security. You should have the ability to opt out.

the result being a two-tier system.....a good one and a bad one....

i'd like to know why the Amish are exempt from Obamacare.....but not other religions like the Catholics who protest paying for abortion....?

Bad care, as opposed to no care because people won't go see a doctor knowing the cost.

I think it's crap that anyone was exempted at all. If they're going to shove this down my throat then I want it shoved down every last throat in america. Unions, Amish, catholics, politicians, everyone.

 

[Koios]

Oh, suuuuuure...The fact that a gubmint program costs more than 10 times more than it was claimed to (counting inflation, BTW), it's all the fault of the marketplace!

Goddamn, are you Marxist stooges a hoot!

Actually, healthcare is in many ways, monopolized, and not governed by market forces. An example is the little (oops, huge) gift to Big Pharma we've come to know and love as Medicare Part D, or the Prescription Drug Bill ... oft sighted as the worst piece of legislation ever passed, fiscally speaking. No bidding on prescription drugs, as all other countries can, so we pay their asking price, whatever it is. And that's not a marketplace. It's a legislated monopoly, in effect.

The Precription Drug Bill was championed by the Bush 43 Admin and Big Pharma, and not socialist stooges, like me.

Edit: as to the rest, I doubt you'd know a fact if it was giving you head.

and just WHO do you think broke his promise to deal with Big Pharma prices.....instead cut a self-serving deal with them that they just loved....and then got his campaign funded.....?

GOP caucuses in both chambers who deep-throated Big Pharma dick and made certain Medicare Part D reforms would not be included in the Senate-passed healthcare bill, which due to the Scott Brown experiment in MA, turned into so-called "Obamacare," since the President and Pelosi pulled a fast one on the Tea Party retards by bringing the half-baked Senate bill to the floor in Congress, and at least getting some things done.

 

[emilynghiem]

At any rate - you are mistaken. The law only prohibits CRIMINAL penalties for failure to pay the penalty. The IRS may still garnish your wages and seize your bank assets. These are not criminal penalties. You will not go to prison nor have a criminal record - but your property will be seized in order to pay for it.

How is seizing your property or threatening to any less like treating someone as a criminal???

OPPD, given that the religious conditions on opt-out exemptions require someone to be a member of a religious group since 1999 where the members pay for each other's health care costs --

Can you please explain how this is NOT govt regulation or discrimination based on religion?

That if certain people qualify for exemption based on a narrow condition of religious nature, while other people who aren't of this faith category must either pay a fine or be subject to having property seized, etc.

How is that NOT religious discrimination by govt?

At least with war, there is not a forced draft, so people who are conscientious objectors have freedom to not serve in war. With abortion, people have pushed to overturn Roe v. Wade where women are not criminalized or punished for abortion.

Can you PLEASE explain to me how the same party of liberal Democrat leaders and followers would push NOT to penalize a woman wanting to choose abortion, which is very serious, and yet would push a bill that penalizes people for wanting to choose something OTHER than insurance to pay for their health care?

How can you penalize something as harmless as not wanting to buy insurance, and push like crazy even demonizing GOP and any prolife person for wanting to ban the choice of abortion?

Have you really thought about what you are asking people to accept here?

I am baffled and have been since this thing passed.
Can you please explain one or the other:
1. how is this bill NOT govt discriminating by or regulating on the basis of religion?
2. how can prochoice people support this bill while demonizing prolife govt mandates?

Please OPPD, I would REALLY LOVE to understand either or both points, can you please help? The only answers I get from anyone are that the Democrats don't care. Do you care?

 

[Oddball]

Actually, healthcare is in many ways, monopolized, and not governed by market forces. An example is the little (oops, huge) gift to Big Pharma we've come to know and love as Medicare Part D, or the Prescription Drug Bill ... oft sighted as the worst piece of legislation ever passed, fiscally speaking. No bidding on prescription drugs, as all other countries can, so we pay their asking price, whatever it is. And that's not a marketplace. It's a legislated monopoly, in effect.

The Precription Drug Bill was championed by the Bush 43 Admin and Big Pharma, and not socialist stooges, like me.

Edit: as to the rest, I doubt you'd know a fact if it was giving you head.

and just WHO do you think broke his promise to deal with Big Pharma prices.....instead cut a self-serving deal with them that they just loved....and then got his campaign funded.....?

GOP caucuses in both chambers who deep-throated Big Pharma dick and made certain Medicare Part D reforms would not be included in the Senate-passed healthcare bill, which due to the Scott Brown experiment in MA, turned into so-called "Obamacare," since the President and Pelosi pulled a fast one on the Tea Party retards by bringing the half-baked Senate bill to the floor in Congress, and at least getting some things done.

Oh, and democratics don't deep throat BgPharma dick?

Bet you're gonna save the blue dress too, aren't ya?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Best thing about Britain's healthcare though, you can opt out if you want private insurance instead of government healthcare.

Every program needs to be like that, from healthcare to social security. You should have the ability to opt out.

the result being a two-tier system.....a good one and a bad one....

i'd like to know why the Amish are exempt from Obamacare.....but not other religions like the Catholics who protest paying for abortion....?

Bad care, as opposed to no care because people won't go see a doctor knowing the cost.

I think it's crap that anyone was exempted at all. If they're going to shove this down my throat then I want it shoved down every last throat in america. Unions, Amish, catholics, politicians, everyone.

another group that was exempted........Muslims.....

 

[AmyNation]

I'll bite.

I'm an either/or kind of guy when it comes to healthcare. Either we need full blown socialist/communist universal healthcare, or government needs to get completely out of it and back the fuck off. These half assed measures they keep vomiting out are only making the situation worse.

Personally, I support universal healthcare. I think it's bullshit that some one who plays by the rules, works hard, stays healthy, and pays for their own health insurance, can come down with a horribly debilitating disease and they loose everything.

I'm an either or person myself.

I think we need to either repeal the law Reagan passed that forces hospitals to care for the sick, even if they can't pay, and accept that if you get sick and can't pay you either die, or seek help from a charity.

Or we demand that every American buy their own insurance and be responsible for their own healthcare costs.

Both of your options are the same thing.

So you support the option of: If you can't afford it and a charity won't help, you die.

I believe every American in entitled to afforded health coverage. However if you make the decision to go without coverage, then have a massive heart attack, I expect you to either work out a payment plan for that half million dollar hospital bill, or to choose to not seek care at all.

You don't get to choose to not buy yourself insurance, and then ask Americans to shell out for the cost of your care.

 

[dblack]

When you're ready to base your arguments on real world facts instead of just making them up as you see fit (including deciding for me what my own thoughts are) - let me know!

I've been doing that all along. I'm not perfect, of course, so it's possible I have some of the facts wrong. But neither you, nor luddly, nor any of the other PPACA apologists droning on about so-called 'facts', have pointed out any specific fact I'm wrong about. That's because it really isn't about the facts - or rather that's not the source of our disagreement. Apart from a few areas of vague legalese (e.g. no "criminal" prosecution, "tax" or "penalty"), it's all pretty cut and dried. There will be lots more ugly shit spill out as the various regulatory regimes start laying down the law - but for now, the facts are actually pretty clear.

So, which "facts" do I have wrong?

 

[Koios]

and just WHO do you think broke his promise to deal with Big Pharma prices.....instead cut a self-serving deal with them that they just loved....and then got his campaign funded.....?

GOP caucuses in both chambers who deep-throated Big Pharma dick and made certain Medicare Part D reforms would not be included in the Senate-passed healthcare bill, which due to the Scott Brown experiment in MA, turned into so-called "Obamacare," since the President and Pelosi pulled a fast one on the Tea Party retards by bringing the half-baked Senate bill to the floor in Congress, and at least getting some things done.

Oh, and democratics don't deep throat BgPharma dick?

Bet you're gonna save the blue dress too, aren't ya?

Yes; many did, especially Lieberman and many of the Blue Dogs, one of which controlled a key committee.

As for the rest of your rightie rhetoric, how should I respond? Hmmm? Righties are big poopie-heads? Is that the level you like to "debate" on, Sparky?

Astonishing. Fall down much, pal?

 

[Oddball]

The Precription Drug Bill was championed by the Bush 43 Admin and Big Pharma, and not socialist stooges, like me.

Edit: as to the rest, I doubt you'd know a fact if it was giving you head.

Chimpy McShrub stole the Medicare D bill, lock, stock and barrel, from the democratics....It was 100% the bill socialist stooges like you championed for years.

Speaking of not knowing a fact if one was hit over the head with it.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Actually, healthcare is in many ways, monopolized, and not governed by market forces. An example is the little (oops, huge) gift to Big Pharma we've come to know and love as Medicare Part D, or the Prescription Drug Bill ... oft sighted as the worst piece of legislation ever passed, fiscally speaking. No bidding on prescription drugs, as all other countries can, so we pay their asking price, whatever it is. And that's not a marketplace. It's a legislated monopoly, in effect.

The Precription Drug Bill was championed by the Bush 43 Admin and Big Pharma, and not socialist stooges, like me.

Edit: as to the rest, I doubt you'd know a fact if it was giving you head.

and just WHO do you think broke his promise to deal with Big Pharma prices.....instead cut a self-serving deal with them that they just loved....and then got his campaign funded.....?

GOP caucuses in both chambers who deep-throated Big Pharma dick and made certain Medicare Part D reforms would not be included in the Senate-passed healthcare bill, which due to the Scott Brown experiment in MA, turned into so-called "Obamacare," since the President and Pelosi pulled a fast one on the Tea Party retards by bringing the half-baked Senate bill to the floor in Congress, and at least getting some things done.

i see....you excuse rotten politics because it was Obamamamma......