Reversing America's Decline

[Oldguy]

Railroads fueled the great expansion of this country... welfare recipients don't. Yes, it is an entitlement for a poor mother to receive a gubmint check. Corporations do not receive tax breaks to ship jobs overseas.

God your ignorant.

Wanna bet?

Fact Check: Tax break for shipping jobs overseas? Well, sort of | Fox News

From your link numbnutz:

Technically, companies can claim a deduction for the costs associated with moving jobs overseas.

However, the deduction is not a special loophole afforded only to companies moving work out of America, as the president sometimes makes it sound. Rather, the deduction is written into the tax code pertaining to any cost companies face in the course of doing business

So, your assertion that corporations get tax breaks to ship jobs overseas is bullshit... they get a deduction for costs associated with doing business.

Yes, and if they can claim that tax break for outsourcing, that's a tax break for outsourcing.

 

[Oldguy]

One person proves a societal shift?

Come on. You can do better than that...can't you?

ps: I could post a video of David Duke and make the claim that the whole country has gone Nazi too.

Problem... there were enough of these people to put this zero back in office... that indicates a pretty significant shift.

So, everybody who voted for Obama was just like that woman?

Do you think you could stereotype any more?

 

[Oldguy]

What would you consider proof?

For starters, how about evidence that people today are different from people in our earlier history? To make the claim that initiative is dead and that we're all becoming welfare queens flies in the face of the facts, and especially when the only "proof" offered is one poor, misguided idiot.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Problem... there were enough of these people to put this zero back in office... that indicates a pretty significant shift.

So, everybody who voted for Obama was just like that woman?

Do you think you could stereotype any more?

There were enough of them with that mentality fer sher. Hopefully not exactly that bad.

 

[regent]

How was building the railroad an example of "entitlement"?

Where did the land come from and who paid for it?

Much depends upon your definition of "entitlement," doesn't it? Is it an "entitlement" when the government gives free land to railroads, the same as when it sends somebody a check? Why or why not? Is it an "entitlement" for a poor mother to receive WIC aid, but not an "entitlement" when a corporation receives a tax break to move our jobs overseas? Why and how are they different?

If you want to define entitlement as giving people money then every gov't employee is receiving an entitlement.
Fortunately only idiots would define it that way. In the railroads' case, there were national reasons to have a trans-continental railroad and doubtless that played into their reasoning,whatever it was. But it was a one time thing. A nd the landowners gave up one thing for something else.
People in entitlements receive something and give up nothing for it. Thus the term. They are simply entitled by virtue of being US citizens and meeting some criteria.

Governments in the US have always taken care of the poor, and those needing medical care, sometimes better than other times but the care was there. Entitlement is usually defined as something entitled to by law, but recently conservatives have tried to make the term a synonym for welfare recipients and others.
As for the railroads it was just one of many examples of government helping industry. The practice of Government helping industry began as soon as the ink was dry on the Constitution.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Wanna bet?

Fact Check: Tax break for shipping jobs overseas? Well, sort of | Fox News

From your link numbnutz:

Technically, companies can claim a deduction for the costs associated with moving jobs overseas.

However, the deduction is not a special loophole afforded only to companies moving work out of America, as the president sometimes makes it sound. Rather, the deduction is written into the tax code pertaining to any cost companies face in the course of doing business

So, your assertion that corporations get tax breaks to ship jobs overseas is bullshit... they get a deduction for costs associated with doing business.

Yes, and if they can claim that tax break for outsourcing, that's a tax break for outsourcing.

That would only work if the break were specifically there to induce outsourcing... which it is not. So, in your world then deductions for medical premiums of employees working overseas is a tax break for outsourcing?

That's fucking retarded... you can't be this stupid and dishonest.

 

[The Rabbi]

I didn't define it that way.

In the railroads' case, there were national reasons to have a trans-continental railroad and doubtless that played into their reasoning,whatever it was.

There are national reasons for that women get WIC aid too. Can you not see that?



No, it wasn't. And, it goes on today with the building and maintenance of the highways businesses use to move their products. We the People made the decision that we and those businesses are "entitled" to a transportation network at little or no expense to them.

We've made the same determination when it comes to taking care of the poor.

People in entitlements receive something and give up nothing for it. Thus the term. They are simply entitled by virtue of being US citizens and meeting some criteria.

Your stereotype is woefully inadequate. Do you actually know anybody receiving aid?

You get dumber with every post.
We do not get a highway system at no expense. We pay for it every time we fill the tank. Our taxes built the highway system and maintain it.
Entitlement is called that for precisely the reason I outlined: people are entitled simply by virtue of meeting certain criteria. They give nothign. It is not a transaction, like buying a tank from a military contractor. It is given gratis.

 

[The Rabbi]

From your link numbnutz:



So, your assertion that corporations get tax breaks to ship jobs overseas is bullshit... they get a deduction for costs associated with doing business.

Yes, and if they can claim that tax break for outsourcing, that's a tax break for outsourcing.

That would only work if the break were specifically there to induce outsourcing... which it is not. So, in your world then deductions for medical premiums of employees working overseas is a tax break for outsourcing?

That's fucking retarded... you can't be this stupid and dishonest.

He can be this stupid. He proves it every post.

It's like saying the gov't subsidizes murder because they subsidize public transportation and murders occur on them.

 

[Oldguy]

Well, I see this thread has about run its course. Nobody seems to be able to prove America is in decline, let alone define that term, so the best cover for not having a position which can be defended is personal attacks.

It's what ya do when ya got nuthin.'

 

[The Rabbi]

Well, I see this thread has about run its course. Nobody seems to be able to prove America is in decline, let alone define that term, so the best cover for not having a position which can be defended is personal attacks.

It's what ya do when ya got nuthin.'

We've proven it admirably. Some people won't listen to reason or evidence. Not my problem. Maybe bad education. Maybe it was the drugs.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Naw, The Rabbi, you have only proved you are evidence and fact resistant.

America is not in decline but your mind obviously continues to deteriorate.

 

[Oldguy]

Naw, The Rabbi, you have only proved you are evidence and fact resistant.

America is not in decline but your mind obviously continues to deteriorate.

A declining America is just a part of the OMG OBAMA! meme. Like Pavlov's dog, when the President's name is attached to something, they grab their heads and scream "It's the end of the world!"

But...they can never quite prove it's so.

 

[The Rabbi]

Naw, The Rabbi, you have only proved you are evidence and fact resistant.

America is not in decline but your mind obviously continues to deteriorate.

A declining America is just a part of the OMG OBAMA! meme. Like Pavlov's dog, when the President's name is attached to something, they grab their heads and scream "It's the end of the world!"

But...they can never quite prove it's so.

Record deficits, record debt, record numbers of people in poverty and on assistence, declining influence, credit downgrades.
Nah, no problems here.

 

[Oldguy]

Naw, The Rabbi, you have only proved you are evidence and fact resistant.

America is not in decline but your mind obviously continues to deteriorate.

A declining America is just a part of the OMG OBAMA! meme. Like Pavlov's dog, when the President's name is attached to something, they grab their heads and scream "It's the end of the world!"

But...they can never quite prove it's so.

Record deficits, record debt, record numbers of people in poverty and on assistence, declining influence, credit downgrades.
Nah, no problems here.

Yep. No problems here. Everything you mention is driven by our sluggish economy and, when the economy gets better (it will), your GOP mentors will quietly find something else to talk about.

See, some of us know our history. We've been through this before and today is only different by degree. The Great Depression was the result of the policies of GOP administrations previous to FDR, just as this one is. And, the talking points are exactly the same. The GOP and the RWNJ's called FDR a socialist, a communist, the anti-Christ, the devil incarnate and a tool of international conspiracies. Sound familiar? And, they warned of impending doom, the end of America as we know it, economic ruin, social upheaval, rebellion, insurrection, cultural collapse. Sound familiar? They opposed everything FDR did trying to preserve their myopic vision of an America for the wealthy elites, just like today.

But, none of that happened, did it? Know why? Because The People were not fools. They are not fools today either. The People know what's best for this country and they've voted their convictions. No matter how many times the right claims the election was stolen, or The People have been duped, or any other excuse, the fact is that The People have exercised their Constitutional authority and decided the course we're on is the right one.

They are as right today as they were back then. America will survive. Not only survive, but grow stronger and better.

Of course, those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it, ad nauseum, so don't feel foolish. You belong to a long line of doom-sayers and fear mongers who got it wrong.

 

[American_Jihad]

Dedicated to Oldgeezer

Krugman's Howdy Doody Time​

By Randall Hoven
11/28/12



Paul Krugman recently praised the 1950s, or at least the high tax rates of the 1950s.

"And the high-tax, strong-union decades after World War II were in fact marked by spectacular, widely shared economic growth: nothing before or since has matched the doubling of median family income between 1947 and 1973."

If we are to employ the post-hoc-ergo-propter-hoc logical fallacy with as much abandon as Krugman does, perhaps what we really need to do is drop a couple of atomic bombs on heavily populated cities overseas.

It's also a bit funny that he used the period of 1947-1973 to evaluate the 1950s. President Kennedy slashed those 1950 tax rates about as soon as he entered the presidency in 1961. So about half of Krugman's "golden years" were after the tax rates of the 1950s were cut.

In the seven decades since World War II, there have been 11 recessions in the US. Three of them started in just the seven years of 1953 to 1960, or exactly the period of our highest tax rates on personal incomes. That is, we suffered 27% of our post-war recessions in the 10% of the time top marginal rates were highest.

The most ironic part of this whole discussion of top tax rates is that they do not even do the one thing they are supposed to do: bring in more revenue.

Data sources: OMB and IRS.

Do you see revenue going up when the top tax rate goes up? You shouldn't, because the correlation coefficient is negative over the 1950-2008 period. The higher the top rate, the less revenue collected. To be fair, the correlation is not statistically significant. That is, the top tax rate has no statistically detectable effect on the amount of revenue collected.

---

Read more: Articles: Krugman's Howdy Doody Time

 

[American_Jihad]

The Governing Class and the Decline of America​

By Steve McCann
11/29/12


The United States will not reverse its descent into the abyss of financial and societal bankruptcy until the current political and governing establishment is replaced. That will not happen until the American people, who have been deliberately ill-educated and deceived, experience first-hand the early stages of the turmoil and suffering extant in Europe and elsewhere.

While professing to care for the interests of the average person, the underlying motivation for the vast majority of the governing class or Establishment is first and foremost self-aggrandizement and the acquisition of wealth. While a few may be motivated by ideology, the preponderance are not.

There are no offices on Connecticut Avenue in Washington D.C. with signs reading "The Republican Establishment" or the "The Democratic Establishment"; rather it is an amalgam of like-minded groups with one common interest: the control of the government purse-strings and the attendant power contained within.

The Republican and Democratic political establishments are made up of the following:

1) many current and nearly all retired national office holders whose livelihood and narcissistic demands depends upon fealty to Party and access to government largesse;

2) the majority of the media elite, including pundits, editors, writers and television news personalities based in Washington and New York whose proximity to power and access is vital to their continued standard of living;

3) academia, numerous think-tanks, so-called non-government organizations, and lobbyists who fasten onto those in the administration and Congress for employment, grants, favorable legislation and ego-gratification;

4) the reliable deep pocket political contributors and political consultants whose future is irrevocably tied to the political machinery of the Party; and

5) the crony capitalists, i.e. leaders of the corporate and financial community as well as unions whose entities are dependent on or subject to government oversight and/or benevolence .

---


Read more: Articles: The Governing Class and the Decline of America

 

[Grandma]

Rightwingers are so dreary and miserable...

 

[American_Jihad]

Rightwingers are so dreary and miserable...

Thanks for the BUMP Ya old bat ...

 

[The Rabbi]

A declining America is just a part of the OMG OBAMA! meme. Like Pavlov's dog, when the President's name is attached to something, they grab their heads and scream "It's the end of the world!"

But...they can never quite prove it's so.

Record deficits, record debt, record numbers of people in poverty and on assistence, declining influence, credit downgrades.
Nah, no problems here.

Yep. No problems here. Everything you mention is driven by our sluggish economy and, when the economy gets better (it will), your GOP mentors will quietly find something else to talk about.

See, some of us know our history. We've been through this before and today is only different by degree. The Great Depression was the result of the policies of GOP administrations previous to FDR, just as this one is. And, the talking points are exactly the same. The GOP and the RWNJ's called FDR a socialist, a communist, the anti-Christ, the devil incarnate and a tool of international conspiracies. Sound familiar? And, they warned of impending doom, the end of America as we know it, economic ruin, social upheaval, rebellion, insurrection, cultural collapse. Sound familiar? They opposed everything FDR did trying to preserve their myopic vision of an America for the wealthy elites, just like today.

But, none of that happened, did it? Know why? Because The People were not fools. They are not fools today either. The People know what's best for this country and they've voted their convictions. No matter how many times the right claims the election was stolen, or The People have been duped, or any other excuse, the fact is that The People have exercised their Constitutional authority and decided the course we're on is the right one.

They are as right today as they were back then. America will survive. Not only survive, but grow stronger and better.

Of course, those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it, ad nauseum, so don't feel foolish. You belong to a long line of doom-sayers and fear mongers who got it wrong.

This isn't the 1940s. Those who don't know that are doomed, period.
The economy will not imprive given the current set of regulations and taxation policies and the hostility to business. That is a mindset more than policy. And that mindset is what re-elected Obama.
So we are stuck in permanent euro-sclerosis--low growth, high unemployment. Japan has done this for 20 years, so it could be a while before things change.
Japan was the archetype of the rising power in the 1970s, about like China today. Now they are saddled with horrible demographics and a sputtering economy that will implode shortly. Things dont always turn around.

 

[editec]

Governments in the US have always taken care of the poor, and those needing medical care, sometimes better than other times but the care was there. Entitlement is usually defined as something entitled to by law, but recently conservatives have tried to make the term a synonym for welfare recipients and others.
As for the railroads it was just one of many examples of government helping industry. The practice of Government helping industry began as soon as the ink was dry on the Constitution.

EXACTLY right.

And the most egregious example of that was when?When St Gerorge of Washington called out the troops to put down Shaw's Whiskey rebellion.

What elite group was Washington working for in that case?

The makers of RUM on the east Coast, who were in bed with the SLAVING INDUSTRY which is absolutely necessary to make the CANE which becomes the MOLASSES which is turned into RUM.

And who were the people he put down?

Trans-Appalachian Farmers who turned their corn barely and wheat into WHISKEY so they could sell it into the market that was dominated by RUM.


This government has nearly ALWAYS been a government of the rich, for the rich and by the rich.

Since DAY ONE, folks