CDZ RIGGED ELECTION: Let's see if we can imagine a new way to gather and count votes

[L.K.Eder]

by this time you had ample opportunity to read up. you are now merely spamming and concern trolling.

Yes. So have you. And... If you don't actually do that... I don't see any reason not to repeat what you don't address.

so, you try to whine that the legislative and Republicans had no input into the voting rule changes in pa, get schooled, then troll and obfuscate. take a nap.

If the legislative branch was involved in said changes we wouldn't be having the conversation. But that doesn't really change the point at all... It happened... That's the point.

You chose one where they were.. *shrugs* This is the wrong thread for this.

you chose pennsylvania.

 

[Mac1958]

Which criterion is the most important, making voting as easy as possible or maximizing security?

Most important? Security. But the world is not binary. We should strive for both, not just one or the other.

I agree; however, those that scream voter suppression at any every measure to enhance security seem to put ease of voting ahead of security, security be damned!

As usual, we have both ends of an issue pushing their agenda 100% with virtually no consideration given to moderation, complexity or communication.

And the decay continues. Predictably.

 

[Mac1958]

I'm afraid I can't argue with that. I guess this is more of an exercise in wishful thinking than any kind of expectation.

Sometimes I just like to imagine that we're capable of collaboration and innovation, like America used to be.

It's still important that decent people like you not stop trying. I'm just asking you to deal with the issues that need to be addressed first, before trying to move on to election reform.

The crazies I mentioned and those like them need to be locked up somewhere away from humanity first. Nothing can get better when they have such a large audience.

America must stop the damage and the march toward fascism very, very soon!

Believe me, if I thought I had any ideas on how to address that madness, you'd know about 'em!

 

[JoeB131]

Of course it's unreasonable, getting rid of the EC would be the end to the United States and it has nothing to do with the thread topic

Not sure how getting rid of a clumsy, badly designed and undemocratic way of electing presidents would "end" the United States, exactly.

The Thread TOpic is how to find new ways to gather and count votes.

Get rid of the Electoral College, votes in all 50 states count, not just the ones in five swing states.

 

[JoeB131]

National voting id-----complete with fingerprint on each ballot and people only allowed to vote where they pay federal taxes.

The problem is you guys oppose a national ID system. I'd be all for it, actually, and you don't have to present an ID, just know the last four of your social.

 

[candycorn]

It’s a trade off

If we prevent tens of thousands of legitimate voters from voting just on the CHANCE there may be fraud, we are CREATING a problem

And if tens of thousands of votes are suspect because adequate security measures were not taken, we have a problem.

Has that ever happened? Seriously?

Five states (I think there may be more) do nothing but mail-in voting. Some have done so for a long time.

Absolutely none of the right wingers here have uttered a word about any of the elections in these states being illegitimate. None of the losers have alleged this voter fraud.

In November 2020, Trump and about 8,000 other candidates for federal, state, and local offices lost. The only one complaining about fraud is Trump.

Its comical that this is even still being discussed.

Without proper security, how would we know? With something as important as an election, we should think like a hacker, If there is a weakness in the security of a voting system, someone is likely to exploit it. Billions of dollars are spent on elections, so if someone can find a way to cheat the system, they will. So question shouldn't be ,"Has someone been caught trying to cheat the system in a particular way before." The question should be "If a person tries A,B,C,D.....Z" will it be detected and will he be caught to be prosecuted. Don't give Trump any wiggle room to claim fraud.

Weak.

Trump claimed fraud at least 3 times. No fraud of any significant size was ever demonstrated.

 

[Donald H]

I'm afraid I can't argue with that. I guess this is more of an exercise in wishful thinking than any kind of expectation.

Sometimes I just like to imagine that we're capable of collaboration and innovation, like America used to be.

It's still important that decent people like you not stop trying. I'm just asking you to deal with the issues that need to be addressed first, before trying to move on to election reform.

The crazies I mentioned and those like them need to be locked up somewhere away from humanity first. Nothing can get better when they have such a large audience.

America must stop the damage and the march toward fascism very, very soon!

Believe me, if I thought I had any ideas on how to address that madness, you'd know about 'em!

I have some ideas but I've already hinted at those ideas needing to be addressed before election reform. Other leading democracies can run clean and fair elections in which there are no long lines close to half a mile long, waiting to vote. In British Columbia I've never stood in a line to vote for more than 2 minutes!

The effort is made by election officials and scrutineers representing all political parties, to make sure the voters don't walk away in disgust.

That isn't any kind of earthshaking revelation. It's what's expected by people in a democracy.

 

[Shelzin]

You chose one where they were.. *shrugs* This is the wrong thread for this.

you chose pennsylvania.

OH I'm sorry... The whole debating in good faith gets me. I thought we were in the CDZ. My fault. You seem to know the points correct, but...

 

[Donald H]

In the interest of helping Mac being able to maintain a productive discussion here:

A preliminary question could be in determining whether or not a democracy with a large population (300+ million) can prevent corruption from taking control in the manner which Trump succeeded doing for at least one term.

It could very well be that a democracy has no real means of stopping corruption when big money interests can buy their loyalty.

This is a failing of democracy that appears to be directly proportional to the size of the electorate. Smaller countries with smaller populations appear to be able to at least partially hold back corruption for longer.

If China doesn't have a solution to the problem, then it's definitely hinting at a possible solution that's needed for the good of the country. This is reflected in the obvious quality of their leader Xi, as compared to America's track record of bad leadership such as Trump and now Biden.

I 'do' keep in mind that discussion is next to impossible at this time with Americans, but Mac has made the effort and so I would at least like to try to afford him the courtesy of a reply.

 

[Donald H]

National voting id-----complete with fingerprint on each ballot and people only allowed to vote where they pay federal taxes.

The problem is you guys oppose a national ID system. I'd be all for it, actually, and you don't have to present an ID, just know the last four of your social.

If the idea of a voter ID system was approached with honest intentions of encoraging and enabling all people to vote, there would be no valid objections to making it happen.

Even that much is impossible to establish now in America's completely corrupt system.

Democracy has been spirited away from the American people as they dozed, and there's no indications on the horizon that it's coming back any time soon.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I'm not expecting a terribly vibrant thread, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. So here goes:

I wonder if we could toss out a few ideas on how we can count votes in the future. Leaving (or at least trying to leave) your political affiliation out of this, let's see your ideas on how the states might best do the following:

• Make voting as easy as possible, particular in rural, less dense areas
• Minimize the need for recounts
• Create voting systems (voting & counting) that maximize security

I'll start: Let's begin by dragging ourselves away from this need to know who won a state by the end of Election Day. Let's have an automatic audit confirmation process that counts the vote multiple (two or three different) ways on Election Night and the next day. That way we can minimize the need for recounts after the fact.

Also, while each state will certainly have its own rules, maybe we can find SOME common methods so that we can standardize them for better efficiency and accountability.

Okay, go. Let's try "imagining" instead of just repeating.

All States should follow the same rules for Federal elections. All votes should be on physical ballots with the signature picture and thumb print of the voter placed in an envelope signed by the poll worker who accepts and tabulates the vote which is then stored for possible review for posible review.

 

[Dekster]

Voting should be one day and one day only.

Any drop off box be watched armed guard for the period

2 forms of ID present, one pictured. A utility bill would be good enough for a second

A strict custody of chain ballots for all those not present. All absentee ballots counted before the end of the evening.

Some of the mathematical problems in this election stats were a person being struck by lightning for 3 days in a row. You can deny it, but can't can't hide from it.

What a disastrous cheating filed election in 6 states. My Lord.

If Roberts just would have done the right thing, then all this stuff would never have happened. The preplanned events of 1/6 would not have happened.

This will not happen again.

who is gonna finance that? you cannot even find the money to keep your voter databases up to date. lol. the money needs to go to space force or new drones.

Who is going to finance what? If you are only pointing to the drop off boxes, my response went miles above your head.

finance what? the manpower needed to finish accurate vote counting in a day, e.g. your own posts went miles above your head. next time, think before posting.

With scantrons, your votes get counted in real time. They just have to tally up the totals of all the machines at the end of the day.

 

[Donald H]

All States should follow the same rules for Federal elections. All votes should be on physical ballots with the signature picture and thumb print of the voter placed in an envelope signed by the poll worker who accepts and tabulates the vote which is then stored for possible review for posible review.

America's politicians are being bought off by big money interests. Any efforts at reform that don't address that, are just trying to put the cart before the horse.

In layman's terms for you, your political system is irreparably fkd.

Do you ever wonder if a democracy can continue to function indefinitely when there's no mechanism to keep it honest in the interests of the people?

And more important, is there any way of turning a corrupt democracy around and putting it back on track? If not then it only sinks deeper into corruption.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

If the legislative branch was involved in said changes we wouldn't be having the conversation. But that doesn't really change the point at all... It happened... That's the point.

Which you've made three times. Thanks

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Create national holiday for voting day.
Create a national i.d. obtainable for free to all and signed by I.d. holder
Eliminate all voting that is not in person.
Require all voters to sign in when voting with immediate validation of signature.
Upon voting. I.d Number of voters entered into database to be flagged if they try to vote again.
Party officials of BOTH parties present in precinct rooms and with unfettered access to all stages of voting.

 

[MisterBeale]

If they are going to pass an amendment for voting qualifications. . .

. . . then a part of it should be, one must either own property, served in the military or have held a job within the last four years in order to vote. IOW, they should PAY TAXES, or serve, not receive entitlements with nothing in return.

IOW, you must have skin in the game, and not just vote yourself spoils from the national treasury.

Secondly, the secret ballot should be dispensed with, as this is the quickest way for folks civic and moral duty to the community to be subverted to their own self interest.

Most political philosophers that influenced the founding of this nation, all felt that these principles were axiomatic. That we have drifted so far from them, giving out suffrage like candy and hidden it's consequences are some of the reason we have decayed morally and ethically as a nation.

 

[Shelzin]

If the legislative branch was involved in said changes we wouldn't be having the conversation. But that doesn't really change the point at all... It happened... That's the point.

Which you've made three times. Thanks

You're welcome. Fair warning... If the point isn't addressed, then it'll happen again. And again. You are more than welcome to ban me if you like.

 

[sartre play]

I vote in person, I am old with problems that may at some point require me to vote by mail. there are many people ( like overseas military) who need to vote by mail. So I TOTALY reject those who promote only in person voting. Also would support more poling places & more days or longer hours for voting.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

If the legislative branch was involved in said changes we wouldn't be having the conversation. But that doesn't really change the point at all... It happened... That's the point.

Which you've made three times. Thanks

You're welcome. Fair warning... If the point isn't addressed, then it'll happen again. And again. You are more than welcome to ban me if you like.

Works for me.. Bye

 

[Mac1958]

I vote in person, I am old with problems that may at some point require me to vote by mail. there are many people ( like overseas military) who need to vote by mail. So I TOTALY reject those who promote only in person voting. Also would support more poling places & more days or longer hours for voting.

We live in amazingly binary times. We just can't seem to see both lanes of the road.

We have the ability to both open up voting and keep things secure, but doing so would require us to do crazy things like "work together" and "innovate". Allowing a different idea to enter the conversation is confused with capitulation.

I'm guessing that, in the short term, we're going to see more of that sad situation. Maybe we'll innovate at some point, assuming we make it to that point.