Roe v. Wade getting overturned!!

[eagle1462010]

The personal liberty that women in America have enjoyed for half-a-century with the ongoing support of most Americans should not be summarily snatched away be authoritarians and arrogated by the state, even if the maximal statists pretend they are only "bots."

I called you a bot

 

[Cecilie1200]

Again you haven't been listening one last time here did I ever say I liked abortion that I would do it if there was any other choice the answer is no. I am here solely as the voice of women who want to have a choice in the matter. I think everybody deserves choice in this world, in your religion if you are a religious nut like half of these people are. Isn't choice granted by your tribal god, and you want to limit people's choices. That sounds kind of hypocritical. Like I said those tomatoes aren't going to plant themselves I'm out of here. Try to have a good day, I plan on it.

Oh, I've been listening. I've been listening to what you claim your position is, and I've been listening to the arguments you make that contradict your proclaimed position. And I've pointed out how contradictory your own words are, and you've carefully avoided acknowledging it.

I'm still waiting for you to explain why it is you "dislike" abortion.

Do I need to point out again the hilarious irony of you arguing against a woman to be "the voice of women"? Or the one in saying you're "arguing for choice" by arguing against the people choosing for themselves? You're welcome to argue that the only "choice" you agree with are the very specific choices you want people to have, but at least be honest that your position is that all other choices shouldn't be allowed.

I'm ignoring the part where you once again declared what my position was based on what you really WISH it was, because it fits the arguments you want to make without requiring you to think before you parrot.

 

[beagle9]

Does it ever bother you when you have to ignore the point being made to argue something else entirely? I mean, topic-hopping would make me feel like a dishonest coward, but you do you.

You people put a lot of effort into remaining ignorant of your opposition. I personally wouldn't want to make an argument that depends on knowing as little as possible about what I'm addressing, but again, you do you. Case in point, the argument you think you made about, "Your arguments are contradictory" depends entirely on being willfully ignorant of who pro-lifers are and what we believe and stand for.

It's called "incrementalism", honey. It's a technique the left has used for as long as I can remember, but somehow becomes despicable when pro-lifers do it, presumably because we're not making the case the left doesn't share the way the left thinks we should. I'm not entirely sure why our arguments are beholden to being and doing what our opponents decide we should.

There's nothing inconsistent about saying, "We would prefer all abortions be stopped, but we will take whatever stopped abortions we can get." Only a fool refuses to win a battle because ultimate victory in the war is currently out of reach.

There is also nothing inconsistent about recognizing the need to educate the public about the reality of abortion after decades of leftist obscuring of the facts. It's not our fault that there are so many people out there who are ignorant of the fact that the fetus is more than "a blob of cells"; that's on you and your comrades.

By the way, we aren't "now saying" that life begins at conception. We've been saying it all along. That's 100% been our central position from the start. The fact that you only just noticed it is a reflection of how determinedly you've avoided listening to anything but your talking points. Personally, I wouldn't want to reveal to the world that I've been oblivious to my opponents' central position this whole time, but . . . you do you.

Funny how when a woman learns she is pregnant, there is a huge celebration that a human being is now forming within her body, and she tells her husband and family the news with the biggest overwhelming smile and humbleness shown upon her face because the miracle of life has now begun within her body. That is the normal reaction of pregnancy, instead of ohhh no I need to stop this after knowing full well what it took to get it started. If don't want life to begin as a result of sex, then smart people know what to do in order to prevent that from happening. Everything else is excuse making to cover up being stupid and compulsive in life. Stop being stupid and compulsive, and use contraception is my opinion. I mean we are humans not animal's people.

Not living an educated life on these things or not being taught such things is a leftist problem going on in society, because the left wants total freedom to do anything regardless of the consequences, and so it works to hide the consequences that come with being compulsive, irrational and irresponsible in life. This needs to change starting yesterday. As it were in life concerning so many other issues throughout time, education, education, education is what matters, but it must be the proper education with regulations or laws to go along with it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If you're logic where the rule, this world will be already dead. This planet wasn't designed for this many humans. We are in the process of killing off all the other species on the planet because of our own lack of will to control our sexual urges.

Careful, Mr. Logical. Your emotion is making your posts incoherent.

If you really believe that Malthusian garbage about, "We have to kill people to prevent overpopulation", why are YOU still here?

 

[Cecilie1200]

You made your choice. Do you feel ashamed of it ? Why can't you let other women you don't know or even care about make their own choices like you did it. I don't feel ashamed about my position. It doesn't come out of hatred towards anyone. I've seen poster after poster on here making assumptions about the people who get abortions and about abortions themselves. They don't know what they're talking about. I live in a small town, the only woman in this town that I know of who's had an abortion is marriage and his four children already. I did not know about the abortion until one night when your abortion issues came up on TV she says oh my God they're going to torment people all over again. That is hatred tearing apart our society for no good reason. End of story I'm not going to argue with you you think you're right despite all the consequences your Position is going to create. Good luck with that you're going to need it.

Excuse me, I made no choices whatsoever about killing my children, because I do not and never have recognized that there IS a choice. I find your projecting onto me your personal perceptions onto me to be incredibly offensive. Your question presupposes an acceptance of your worldview, which is part and parcel with exactly what I've said about you: You're deliberately ignorant of any viewpoint other than your own, and you feel that your viewpoint is so superior that everyone else should be forced to live by it.

I don't recall having ever suggested that you hated anyone, nor do I hear you claiming that I did. What I do hear is you trying to make me responsible for other people's words, because you'd rather argue against them than address MY words. I have no obligation to defend anyone else's argument, and I certainly have no obligation to dignify your "This is the debate I wish we were having".

What did I say? "Unlike you, I have met and talked to lots of women who've had and/or considered abortion." And here you are, confirming that and thinking that's an affirmative argument for your position.

Whenever you have something to say about MY arguments to me, you will let me know, won't you?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Your ignorance is compounded by your arrogance. You're so pretentious it isn't funny, it's sad.

I just heard, "I can't refute this, so I'll just mock it and hope no one notices."

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yup. I had a condition and wanted a second opinion from a very highly rated hospital that specialized in it. It was only two hours away, but I took an overnight in a hotel in case it would be difficult to drive back in the same day. And I paid for it with my own money - the exam, the drive, the hotel, the meals out. You can bet PP will be covering the costs for all the poor women too irresponsible to use birth control fo make a similar trip.

And apparently a lot of big corporations who feel they REALLY need to get political on this.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The problem is that for nearly 50 years, women have become dependent on abortion as a birth control failsafe.

This meme has become a popular argument lately, and for the life of me, I don't see how anyone finds this convincing.

'I’m entering my celibacy era': TikToker says hookup culture will be ruined if Roe v. Wade gets overturned, sparking debate

Following a leak of a draft opinion overturning Roe v. Wade, a woman says that hookup culture will be ruined without abortion access.

www.dailydot.com

The first time I saw this, my response is, "Why are you having mediocre sex with a drunk rando who might get you pregnant NOW?!" My second response was, "So women are going to start being choosier about who they fuck around with and make decisions as though their lives, their bodies, and their sexual favors have some actual value. And men are going to have to actually start being worthy of a woman's sexual favors instead of being Cheeto-munching slackers on their moms' couches. And the downside to this is what?"

 

[Cecilie1200]

And that is unfortunate. They don't have the gall to say it's not a legal issue it's a medical issue.

As if the two are completely separate. Because everyone knows that healthcare has no regulations on it.

 

[schmidlap]

I called you a bot

You can call folks whatever you need to if you cannot engage in a substantive discussion, of course.

I respect a woman's right and superior knowledge of her personal circumstances to control her womb, in consultation with her loved ones and medical and spiritual advisers whom she trusts.

Authoritarian statists want her liberty snatched away and arrogated to anonymous politicians and bureaucrats with no familiarity with her whatever.

Most Americans support the personal freedom option.

 

[Stann]

Keep denying reality. Is it comforting to close your eyes and say, "I didn't see that, because I want to believe it didn't happen"?

Here's a fact of life YOU aren't dealing with. Remember this story?

An anti-abortion group claims it took 115 fetuses from a medical waste truck

Washington, D.C., police originally said it found five fetal remains in one of the group member's apartments. Progressive Anti-Abortion Uprising now says there were 115 fetuses in total.

www.npr.org

Note the headline: "Medical waste truck".

Fourth paragraph: "The two women saw the medical waste truck, from Curtis Bay Medical Waste Services, outside Washington Surgi-Clinic, which performs medical procedures such as abortions." Once again, in the name of the company that picks up from that clinic.

What is it you think abortion doctors do with the material they remove from the woman's uterus?

We used to incinerate all the remains, now some of it is donated to research and development that helps everyone. I suppose it's against the law to incinerate anymore so it has to be hauled away by some specialty firms as is with used needles and batteries. Implying there's something sinister about all this simply isn't true.

 

[Stann]

Excuse me, I made no choices whatsoever about killing my children, because I do not and never have recognized that there IS a choice. I find your projecting onto me your personal perceptions onto me to be incredibly offensive. Your question presupposes an acceptance of your worldview, which is part and parcel with exactly what I've said about you: You're deliberately ignorant of any viewpoint other than your own, and you feel that your viewpoint is so superior that everyone else should be forced to live by it.

I don't recall having ever suggested that you hated anyone, nor do I hear you claiming that I did. What I do hear is you trying to make me responsible for other people's words, because you'd rather argue against them than address MY words. I have no obligation to defend anyone else's argument, and I certainly have no obligation to dignify your "This is the debate I wish we were having".

What did I say? "Unlike you, I have met and talked to lots of women who've had and/or considered abortion." And here you are, confirming that and thinking that's an affirmative argument for your position.

Whenever you have something to say about MY arguments to me, you will let me know, won't you?

You were lucky you still have the choice to bring children into this world that's what I was saying. If you hand over a woman's reproductive Rights to the state in the future when the world is overpopulated and finally people start dealing with it the right to have children will be very much restricted. In the state will say in the state and the courts will say well we have the right to control it you gave us that right. Don't you see you're not looking at the bigger picture. Plus if the far right gets away with this who knows what else what other group they're going to Target next.

 

[Stann]

We used to incinerate all the remains, now some of it is donated to research and development that helps everyone. I suppose it's against the law to incinerate anymore so it has to be hauled away by some specialty firms as is with used needles and batteries. Implying there's something sinister about all this simply isn't true.

Now I can't even burn my yard waste in my town. Go figure.

 

[Cecilie1200]

We used to incinerate all the remains, now some of it is donated to research and development that helps everyone. I suppose it's against the law to incinerate anymore so it has to be hauled away by some specialty firms as is with used needles and batteries. Implying there's something sinister about all this simply isn't true.

Hmmm. Incinerate. You mean, like medical waste?

Over 600,000 abortions are performed in the United States every year, according to the CDC. Not all, or even most, of those are usable for medical research. In fact, even you admit that only "some" is donated to research and development. What happens to the rest?

Hauled away to where? What happens to it when it gets there? Do you know? Do you care enough to know, or are you happier comforting yourself with, "I'm sure it's all okay"?

The truth is, how those remains are treated depends on which state you're in. Some states, typically those which are more pro-life, have laws requiring cremation and burial. Many states have little to no regulation, and those regulations that do exist mandate that the remains be treated as "pathological waste", as it's phrased in the California statutes. That would include incineration. New Mexico law requires either incineration or burial, quite specifically. Texas law specifies a choice of disposal options: incineration, grinding up the remains to discharge into a sewage system, burial, stem disinfection followed by burial, moist disinfection followed by depositing in a landfill, chlorine disinfection and maceration followed by depositing in a landfill, or any process that renders the remains unrecognizable followed by depositing in a landfill.

Tell me again that pro-aborts don't call fetal remains "medical waste", because it's written in plain English in multiple state laws.

 

[Stann]

Hmmm. Incinerate. You mean, like medical waste?

Over 600,000 abortions are performed in the United States every year, according to the CDC. Not all, or even most, of those are usable for medical research. In fact, even you admit that only "some" is donated to research and development. What happens to the rest?

Hauled away to where? What happens to it when it gets there? Do you know? Do you care enough to know, or are you happier comforting yourself with, "I'm sure it's all okay"?

The truth is, how those remains are treated depends on which state you're in. Some states, typically those which are more pro-life, have laws requiring cremation and burial. Many states have little to no regulation, and those regulations that do exist mandate that the remains be treated as "pathological waste", as it's phrased in the California statutes. That would include incineration. New Mexico law requires either incineration or burial, quite specifically. Texas law specifies a choice of disposal options: incineration, grinding up the remains to discharge into a sewage system, burial, stem disinfection followed by burial, moist disinfection followed by depositing in a landfill, chlorine disinfection and maceration followed by depositing in a landfill, or any process that renders the remains unrecognizable followed by depositing in a landfill.

Tell me again that pro-aborts don't call fetal remains "medical waste", because it's written in plain English in multiple state laws.

You sound judgmental again. Incinerate as in burn. We did not know the materials were useful and give hope to people with many different illnesses.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You were lucky you still have the choice to bring children into this world that's what I was saying. If you hand over a woman's reproductive Rights to the state in the future when the world is overpopulated and finally people start dealing with it the right to have children will be very much restricted. In the state will say in the state and the courts will say well we have the right to control it you gave us that right. Don't you see you're not looking at the bigger picture. Plus if the far right gets away with this who knows what else what other group they're going to Target next.

You continue to think that the reason I disagree with your viewpoint is just because I don't understand how "brilliant and moral" it is, and if you just patiently and condescendingly explain to me one more time how you know what's best for me better than I do, THIS time I'll accept it.

I can't even tell you how offensive and insulting it is for you to lecture me about what I want, what I need, and what I'm "lucky" to have because you think I'm too stupid to know what's best on my own.

I'm "lucky to have the choice to bring children into the world"? Who the hell is arguing to prevent women from getting pregnant? Do you actually see, "Women should be able to kill their unborn babies if they don't want them" as a high-minded defense of women getting pregnant and having children? Weren't you the one deriding other people with "dream up more horror stories" just a minute ago? And now your argument has devolved to, "Look at all the apocalyptic dystopias I can imagine"?

In the unlikely and hallucinatory event that the state of Arizona decides, for some currently-unknown reason, to start mandating who has permission to get pregnant, then the people of Arizona will deal with that at that time. Thank you for your "kind" offer of killing babies for convenience now to prevent the insane daydreaming of "maybe later", but I'll pass.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Now I can't even burn my yard waste in my town. Go figure.

Which has little or nothing to do with what licensed medical waste disposal companies can or can't do. Or didn't you know that, either?

 

[Cecilie1200]

You sound judgmental again. Incinerate as in burn. We did not know the materials were useful and give hope to people with many different illnesses.

You sound like you're dodging. Again. What difference do you imagine your "helpful" definition of incinerate - as though I might not know what it means - is going to make? And please stop talking like incineration is something that used to happen but doesn't now, while carefully ignoring the bulk of the post, which makes clear that incineration still takes place and is legislatively mandated right at this moment.

 

[Stann]

You continue to think that the reason I disagree with your viewpoint is just because I don't understand how "brilliant and moral" it is, and if you just patiently and condescendingly explain to me one more time how you know what's best for me better than I do, THIS time I'll accept it.

I can't even tell you how offensive and insulting it is for you to lecture me about what I want, what I need, and what I'm "lucky" to have because you think I'm too stupid to know what's best on my own.

I'm "lucky to have the choice to bring children into the world"? Who the hell is arguing to prevent women from getting pregnant? Do you actually see, "Women should be able to kill their unborn babies if they don't want them" as a high-minded defense of women getting pregnant and having children? Weren't you the one deriding other people with "dream up more horror stories" just a minute ago? And now your argument has devolved to, "Look at all the apocalyptic dystopias I can imagine"?

In the unlikely and hallucinatory event that the state of Arizona decides, for some currently-unknown reason, to start mandating who has permission to get pregnant, then the people of Arizona will deal with that at that time. Thank you for your "kind" offer of killing babies for convenience now to prevent the insane daydreaming of "maybe later", but I'll pass.

I do not know what's best for you only you can be the judge of that. I just think every woman should have that choice. Is that so hard to comprehend ? I think not.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I do not know what's best for you only you can be the judge of that. I just think every woman should have that choice. Is that so hard to comprehend ? I think not.

You really don't even hear yourself, do you? The know-it-all condescension? Well, you're a man, so I wouldn't expect you to.
We're not talking about a ban on abortion, regardless of what you and your comrades want to pretend. We're talking about both sides of the argument making their case and convincing people to agree with them, without either side silencing all debate. Women don't require a special, untouchable, inviolable right that cannot ever be argued or disputed. We are as capable of making an argument defending what we want as men are.

Do I think killing the unborn is as unacceptable a "choice" as killing any other human would be? Yes. But that's not what's actually at stake with Roe. All that's really at stake is whether or not the debate even happens.