Roe v. Wade getting overturned!!

[Cecilie1200]

It may shock you, but I am just as qualified to speak my opinion as any conservative woman and my being a moderator here has nothing to do with it. You have no issues with liberals being attacked or broadly stereotyping their positions.

No. You do not know what, or at least it is not evident in your statements in this thread. You just THINK you because I am a “baby killing leftist” who is pro-choice, therefore there is no need for further discussion of viewpoints. Prove me wrong.

It may shock you - since you clearly didn't read his post very carefully - but he never said you weren't qualified. He said I'm as qualified to speak for women as you are. And yet I've gotten nothing but attacks and denigration from your comrades . . . and curiously, not one single question about what I think and believe, either. Just lots of lectures about what they "know" I think and believe. So if you want to snipe at Templar for not asking you your position, you need to have a word with some of the people on your side about doing the same thing.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Let me clarify, life is only precious up to a point.

When a murderer takes a life, his life is forfeit. A pregnant woman's life, doubly as forfeit.

And if you want me to be absolutely and brutally honest, women who terminate life for the sake of sating their personal conveniences and not for medical necessity or to correct a tragic encounter with a rapist or incestuous pervert, also make their lives worthless. They may be entitled to live, yet they have taken all the worth out of their life by taking the life of an unborn child.

I consider capital punishment to be a demonstration of how precious life is. To exact any less of a retribution for the heinous taking of human life would be to devalue that human life.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I am because no one else has rights over my body.

And no one's talking about your body. Do as you please to yourself. We're talking about the baby's body.

 

[Cecilie1200]

See post 2512. I am more pro life that any of anti abortion people are

By YOUR standards, and literally no one but you views those as worth more than the gum on my shoe sole.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The abortion laws that are currently being put in place by states are so egregious they will be easily contested in court. Laws in free nations need to be reasonable and equitable. We are not a fascist country, where the state can force things on it's citizens. This is the ultimate in government outreach.

Then it shouldn't be hard for you to actually make that case, instead of trying to pre-emptively stop the debate from happening at all.

Good luck with that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Body autonomy.




I once considered the overturning of Roe as highly unlikely considering a majority of Americans supported keeping it in place. I see politicians refusing to rule out attempting a federal ban. I see some politicians even considering fetal personhood bills in their states. Given all this, I no longer have the luxury of assuming this will never happen. You, however do.




I think that is a fair view.

My view is up until 16 weeks, abortion is legal, no barriers, restrictions, and clinics operate under the same regulations and rules as any other comparable out patient services. That gives a women enough time to realize she is pregnant, make a decision get financing and access a clinic.

After that, elective abortions can be restricted, but it should always be legal if a mother's health or life is in danger or severe fetal defects.

You're going to lose this apocryphal bodily autonomy? Which red state do you live in?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I don't.

Then perhaps you should look at moving to a state with more people who think like you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What compromise is the right making?

We're allowing the people of the states to decide what they want for themselves. What compromise is the left making, with 50 years of, "This is how it will be, now shut up and live with it!" under their belts and their current caterwauling about the horrors of losing that tyranny?

 

[Cecilie1200]

All this except for the fact that the scientific consensus is that human life begins when the gametes from the male and female transition into a multi-celled zygote.

Your "it needs to look like a human to be human" argument is invalid. Any DNA test will prove the humanity of a newly formed zygote before your argument will.

Funny thing is, when they say, "It needs to look like a human", what they mean is, "It needs to look like an older human, because I'm too ignorant to recognize anything else." A human embryo looks like a human embryo to someone who knows what a human embryo is supposed to look like.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The body autonomy of every single woman that is fertile is threatened.

Hysteria much?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I consider capital punishment to be a demonstration of how precious life is. To exact any less of a retribution for the heinous taking of human life would be to devalue that human life.

Absolutely.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Michigan law already violates the mother's health or life in danger of severe fetal defects, they had the gall to put limitations on that. I love it when non-medical people think they know what they're doing about a medical issue. Things are getting very serious in Michigan.

I take it you've never read Michigan's abortion law, just the marching orders about what you should "know" about it.

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-328-1931-III.pdf

750.14 Miscarriage; administering with intent to procure; felony, penalty.
Sec. 14. Administering drugs, etc., with intent to procure miscarriage—Any person who shall wilfully[sic] administer to any pregnant woman any medicine, drug, substance or thing whatever, or shall employ any instrument or other means whatever, with intent thereby to procure the miscarriage of any such woman, unless the same shall have been necessary to preserve the life of such woman, shall be guilty of a felony, and in case the death of such pregnant woman be thereby produced, the offense shall be deemed manslaughter. In any prosecution under this section, it shall not be necessary for the prosecution to prove that no such necessity existed.
History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931;CL 1948, 750.14.
Constitutionality: Section held unconstitutional as relating to abortions in the first trimester of a pregnancy as authorized by the pregnant woman's attending physician in the exercise of his medical judgment. People v Bricker, 389 Mich 524; 208 NW2d 172 (1973).

I should hire myself out as a thinking-brain human, kinda like a seeing-eye dog, except it's for the terminally stupid.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Believe it or not most abortions in the United States are by so-called Christians.

Are you planning to prove THIS assertion, or are you just going to say, "It's true, because look how firmly I said it" like you always do?

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're trying to compare apples with oranges. It doesn't work.

How is it apples and oranges? Is the vaccine not administered to her body? Did the mandates not declare it would be administered to her body whether she wanted it or not?

Or is it just, "That doesn't work because I don't like it"?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think you'd better read up on the rights privileges and duties of US citizens. Rights come with responsibilities and public health is a national concern. Sorry to burst your bubble but you're comparing apples with oranges and it just doesn't work.

"You have a responsibility to be completely germ-free so I don't catch the flu, but it's silly to think you have a responsibility not to kill your unborn child." Yeah, that's logical.

 

[Coyote]

Ending legal abortion will not reduce unwanted pregnancies. It isn’t as if it wasn’t happening before RvW. Men cheerfully sprayed their sperm around and women got pregnant. It was hidden away in shotgun marriages, abusive mother/baby homes, and illegal abortions. It worse then because there was little a woman could do to force support.

Abortion rates increased after Roe until 1980, when they began to decline and have done so ever since and that decline has been seen in states that restricted access and those that increased access to abortion. That decline also matches the overall decline in birth rates as well. There are any number of reason’s why this might be but the most compelling is the availability of better birthcontrol measures.


What changes the number of unwanted pregnancies and reduces abortions is the availability of affordable birth control and sexual education.

What is interesting (imo) is addressed by these statistics.

Teen pregnancy: the US has the highest level of teen pregnancy for any developed nation. It is hard to quantify unwanted pregnancies outside of abortion statistics, but teen pregnancies usually qualify as unwanted or at least not a good thing.

States with the highest: AR, MS, LA, OK, AL, WV, KY, NM, TX, TN (Many of those are also states with the lowest per capita spending on women, children and foster care).

States with the lowest: NH, MA, VT, CT, ME, RI, NJ, MN, NY, UT

States with the highest abortion rates: NY, IL, FL, GA, MI, NV, NC, CT, MA, NJ

States that do not mandate sex ed be taught, and if it is, contraception does not need to be taught and abstinence must be taught: MS, TX, AZ, AR, LA

States that only allow abstinence to be taught: except for NM, it includes all of the highest teen pregnancy states as well as FL and GA (in the list with the highest abortion rates).

The teen pregnancy rate for the US is 52.1 per thousand while Switzerland and Netherlands are fewer than 7. Contraception is free to youth and heavily subsidized for adults. Comprehensive sexual education is mandatory. Abortion is legal, and abortion rates are low (less than half the US).

Abortion isn’t the problem and making it illegal won’t fix the real problems.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Cecilie1200 see post 3016.

 

[beagle9]

And it isn’t YOUR side trying to dominate and control the other side? Leftists are threatening violence - even death - to SCOTUS justices who won’t vote their way, and Biden condones it.

People on our side say the anti-Constitutionalists should mind their own business, get a hold of their arrogance, and stop telling people living in other states how they must set their laws.

Good points... So true... Activist have been born of the sixties generation, and they've since morphed into the most radical humans beings ever to live in this nation.

 

[beagle9]

Ending legal abortion will not reduce unwanted pregnancies. It isn’t as if it wasn’t happening before RvW. Men cheerfully sprayed their sperm around and women got pregnant. It was hidden away in shotgun marriages, abusive mother/baby homes, and illegal abortions. It worse then because there was little a woman could do to force support.

Abortion rates increased after Roe until 1980, when they began to decline and have done so ever since and that decline has been seen in states that restricted access and those that increased access to abortion. That decline also matches the overall decline in birth rates as well. There are any number of reason’s why this might be but the most compelling is the availability of better birthcontrol measures.

View attachment 643451
What changes the number of unwanted pregnancies and reduces abortions is the availability of affordable birth control and sexual education.

What is interesting (imo) is addressed by these statistics.

Teen pregnancy: the US has the highest level of teen pregnancy for any developed nation. It is hard to quantify unwanted pregnancies outside of abortion statistics, but teen pregnancies usually qualify as unwanted or at least not a good thing.

States with the highest: AR, MS, LA, OK, AL, WV, KY, NM, TX, TN (Many of those are also states with the lowest per capita spending on women, children and foster care).

States with the lowest: NH, MA, VT, CT, ME, RI, NJ, MN, NY, UT

States with the highest abortion rates: NY, IL, FL, GA, MI, NV, NC, CT, MA, NJ

States that do not mandate sex ed be taught, and if it is, contraception does not need to be taught and abstinence must be taught: MS, TX, AZ, AR, LA

States that only allow abstinence to be taught: except for NM, it includes all of the highest teen pregnancy states as well as FL and GA (in the list with the highest abortion rates).

The teen pregnancy rate for the US is 52.1 per thousand while Switzerland and Netherlands are fewer than 7. Contraception is free to youth and heavily subsidized for adults. Comprehensive sexual education is mandatory. Abortion is legal, and abortion rates are low (less than half the US).

Abortion isn’t the problem and making it illegal won’t fix the real problems.

Gotta start somewhere, but I guarantee you that the left doesn't want to start anywhere to solve or work towards solving these issues. They gotta an excuse for everything, so even though you come with your stats, they mean nothing to your leftist bud's. If they did then working to solve the issues would be a bipartisan work, but you know what is going on in all of this stuff, but you gotta keep going even if it is a bunch of bull crap by the left to just keep kicking that can down the road right on and right on.

 

[Coyote]

Gotta start somewhere, but I guarantee you that the left doesn't want to start anywhere to solve or work towards solving these issues. They gotta an excuse for everything, so even though you come with your stats, they mean nothing to your leftist bud's. If they did then working to solve the issues would be a bipartisan work, but you know what is going on in all of this stuff, but you gotta keep going even if it is a bunch of bull crap by just keep kicking that can down the road right on and right on.

I don't think your rightist buds are any less intransigent.