Roe v. Wade getting overturned!!

[Coyote]

And it isn’t YOUR side trying to dominate and control the other side? Leftists are threatening violence - even death - to SCOTUS justices who won’t vote their way, and Biden condones it.

People on our side say the anti-Constitutionalists should mind their own business, get a hold of their arrogance, and stop telling people living in other states how they must set their laws.

umh....you're complaining about folks threatening people and making death threats?

 

[TemplarKormac]

The body autonomy of every single woman that is fertile is threatened.

Oh dear.

 

[Coyote]

It may shock you - since you clearly didn't read his post very carefully - but he never said you weren't qualified. He said I'm as qualified to speak for women as you are. And yet I've gotten nothing but attacks and denigration from your comrades . . . and curiously, not one single question about what I think and believe, either. Just lots of lectures about what they "know" I think and believe. So if you want to snipe at Templar for not asking you your position, you need to have a word with some of the people on your side about doing the same thing.

That might be due more to your delivery then your self appointed victimhood. When you come out of the gate flaming away and telling others what they believe and support, don't be shocked when they respond in kind.

As to "some of the people on my side", I don't own them. But maybe you could set an example and have a chat with your team about improving civil discourse and I'll take notes and see what I can do. Unless you are too invested in your cult of victimhood like a lot rightists seem to be.

 

[Coyote]

I consider capital punishment to be a demonstration of how precious life is. To exact any less of a retribution for the heinous taking of human life would be to devalue that human life.

And yet innocent people end up on death row.

 

[Coyote]

Cecilie1200 see post 3016.

Why?

 

[Calypso Jones]

There will be states that will love to aid those so inclined in killing their unborn. Make a vacation and a celebration out of it since that is what it appears The left has been doing. California has even expanded the options...isn't that right?

Why is the left so afraid of letting states make this decision. I think i know...because the left knows that they are the minority in this matter. The American people do not approve of this practice.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That might be due more to your delivery then your self appointed victimhood. When you come out of the gate flaming away and telling others what they believe and support, don't be shocked when they respond in kind.

As to "some of the people on my side", I don't own them. But maybe you could set an example and have a chat with your team about improving civil discourse and I'll take notes and see what I can do. Unless you are too invested in your cult of victimhood like a lot rightists seem to be.

Honey, I'm not claiming "victimhood"; I'm not a leftist. I'm just stating the facts of their behavior. I couldn't give less of a shit about it. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of YOUR whining.

No one said you own them. The point is, if you're going to bitch at Templar for allegedly engaging in this behavior, then where are your posts calling people on your own side out for it? It's almost like you don't really disapprove; you just don't like it aimed at you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And yet innocent people end up on death row.

I'm also a big believer in being VERY sure of the facts before imposing such a sentence. Otherwise, life in prison without parole is fine, as well.

Also, 18 people have been exonerated from death row. Every one of them was convicted prior to the use of DNA evidence, which is what exonerated them.

 

[beagle9]

And yet innocent people end up on death row.

Your point ??????.... If our system was perfect then million's upon million's of innocent now aborted babies wouldn't have ended up on death row and killed, but you couldn't care less about that one eh ??? Funny how only the most heinous of criminal's are being stood up for because oops, we might make a mistake during trial, and oops hang an innocent person. Yes that would be tragic for sure, but consider that as not being the norm, and that we as a nation can't be detered from making our most heinous criminal's pay for their dastardly deeds in life..

 

[beagle9]

I'm also a big believer in being VERY sure of the facts before imposing such a sentence. Otherwise, life in prison without parole is fine, as well.

Also, 18 people have been exonerated from death row. Every one of them was convicted prior to the use of DNA evidence, which is what exonerated them.

With new technology, death row inmates have a far better chance of proving their innocence than they did in the past. That's great, but we shouldn't be detered on carrying out death row sentencing, otherwise meaning if their innocence can't be proven before the date of the execution (usually set for year's later), arrives.

 

[Stann]

Once again, I don't have any obligation to "offer" anything to the likes of you, because I have no need to come hat in hand to the "Just kill them" crowd and beg them to accept an alternative.

The fact is, the overturning of Roe v Wade itself will serve as a deterrent to unwanted pregnancies all by itself, at least in the states that aren't run by people like you. People on your own side have said so, although they probably don't realize it.

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Admittedly, this is just TikTok, but they're far from the only ones on the left issuing dark "warnings" about how the overturn of Roe v. Wade will lead to women being less willing to behave like the town pump. And they're correct. Women are no more inherently stupid and unable to calculate personal risks than men are. The left has never seemed to understand this, but human beings alter their behavior according to changing circumstances.

Now, people on the left seem to think this is some horrible, looming calamity. Personally, I don't understand why women were willing to have mediocre sex with drunk randos in the first place.

The left has always taken a very simplistic view of the situation: unwanted pregnancy, kill the baby, done. The idea of looking at the society and culture this created, and the influences the presence of legalized abortion exerts of everyone, regardless of their position on abortion, is completely beyond your interest.

In fact, what happened is that, with abortion seen as a "backup", attitudes toward casual sex and contraceptive use changed dramatically, even among women who would not choose to have an abortion. Relationship dynamics between men and women changed. When increasing numbers of women felt free to make their sexual decisions without concern for possible pregnancy impacting their futures, other women felt increased pressure to behave likewise. We went from a society where men had to pursue women and convince them to engage in sex to a society where women had to compete for men, and if they didn't put out, someone else would.

What the research showed is that the advent of abortion actually coincided with an increase in unplanned, out-of-wedlock births. Because women who would not have abortions were influenced by an increasing "hookup culture" to behave like women who would. Because men felt no societal pressure to be worthwhile, decent guys who took responsibility. Hey, she chose to have the baby, that's on her, not them. Now we have a widespread phenomenon of men spraying their sperm around like a garden hose, making multiple children they subsequently ignore with multiple women. There are actually men who consider it a badge of honor to have multiple "baby mamas", like they're getting a high score in Pokemon Go or something.

I have far more I can say, but I'm not a fan of hugely long posts, since I doubt most people bother reading them.

You haven't even begun to address all the problems this will create and recreate. The pro-life agenda has no provisions in place for all the problems they're going to create, and that's going to be very, very costly, both in lives and financially.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You haven't even begun to address all the problems this will create and recreate. The pro-life agenda has no provisions in place for all the problems they're going to create, and that's going to be very, very costly, both in lives and financially.

Well, gosh, you mean a single post didn't provide complete and comprehensive information about any and all details, as well as a 100% accurate crystal ball prediction of the future? Shocking.

You pro-aborts didn't have provisions in place for all the problems you caused 50 years ago, and you didn't create any in that time, other than a raft of lies, excuses, and deflections. So we can't possibly do worse than you did.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Men cheerfully sprayed their sperm around and women got pregnant.

Stop. Right. There.

As a man, I take great offense to members of my gender being stereotyped in this manner. You seem to think men only lack self restraint. The misandry is pervasive.

There is also this misconception that women are/were innocent victims in all of this. They are just as susceptible to the same lapse in judgment.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Why?

Were you not addressing her with that post?

 

[Lisa558]

Ending legal abortion will not reduce unwanted pregnancies. It isn’t as if it wasn’t happening before RvW. Men cheerfully sprayed their sperm around and women got pregnant. It was hidden away in shotgun marriages, abusive mother/baby homes, and illegal abortions. It worse then because there was little a woman could do to force support.

Abortion rates increased after Roe until 1980, when they began to decline and have done so ever since and that decline has been seen in states that restricted access and those that increased access to abortion. That decline also matches the overall decline in birth rates as well. There are any number of reason’s why this might be but the most compelling is the availability of better birthcontrol measures.

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What changes the number of unwanted pregnancies and reduces abortions is the availability of affordable birth control and sexual education.

What is interesting (imo) is addressed by these statistics.

Teen pregnancy: the US has the highest level of teen pregnancy for any developed nation. It is hard to quantify unwanted pregnancies outside of abortion statistics, but teen pregnancies usually qualify as unwanted or at least not a good thing.

States with the highest: AR, MS, LA, OK, AL, WV, KY, NM, TX, TN (Many of those are also states with the lowest per capita spending on women, children and foster care).

States with the lowest: NH, MA, VT, CT, ME, RI, NJ, MN, NY, UT

States with the highest abortion rates: NY, IL, FL, GA, MI, NV, NC, CT, MA, NJ

States that do not mandate sex ed be taught, and if it is, contraception does not need to be taught and abstinence must be taught: MS, TX, AZ, AR, LA

States that only allow abstinence to be taught: except for NM, it includes all of the highest teen pregnancy states as well as FL and GA (in the list with the highest abortion rates).

The teen pregnancy rate for the US is 52.1 per thousand while Switzerland and Netherlands are fewer than 7. Contraception is free to youth and heavily subsidized for adults. Comprehensive sexual education is mandatory. Abortion is legal, and abortion rates are low (less than half the US).

Abortion isn’t the problem and making it illegal won’t fix the real problems.

Except it won’t be illegal. It’s possible a woman might have to travel to a neighboring state - like I did for a medical issue - and PP will pay for it.

What is being debated here is whether abortion, which will always be legal and widely available in the United States, also has to be CONVENIENT.

 

[Lisa558]

umh....you're complaining about folks threatening people and making death threats?

View attachment 643484

Um…..yes I am. Are you defending people threatening Supreme Court justices with death threats in order to subvert it, and bully conservatives into submitting to liberals’ position?

 

[Coyote]

Except it won’t be illegal. It’s possible a woman might have to travel to a neighboring state - like I did for a medical issue - and PP will pay for it.

What is being debated here is whether abortion, which will always be legal and widely available in the United States, also has to be CONVENIENT.

In theory it is possible, but for many people it might not be. Even within just one state like TX, you are looking at a couple hundred miles, when it is a group of states, even more. On top of that, you have laws putting a bounty on anyone who helps them in any way. The people most effected will be those least able to care for another child or get an abortion now. It isn't a matter of "convenience". You also keep iterating it will always be legal. You don't know that.

 

[Coyote]

Um…..yes I am. Are you defending people threatening Supreme Court justices with death threats in order to subvert it, and bully conservatives into submitting to liberals’ position?

I am defending nothing. Death threats need to be taken seriously and if they mob the court, they should treated like the Jan 6 rioters.

But the rightists nonchalance when poll workers, voting machine workers, and election officials and their families doxxed and threatened is a sad commentary on our society today. These people don't get special protection, they are just ordinary citizens doing their job.

I support strict laws against doxing and threats against public officials and people engaged in civic duties, even ordinary citizens shouldnt be doxxed.

 

[Lisa558]

In theory it is possible, but for many people it might not be. Even within just one state like TX, you are looking at a couple hundred miles, when it is a group of states, even more. On top of that, you have laws putting a bounty on anyone who helps them in any way. The people most effected will be those least able to care for another child or get an abortion now. It isn't a matter of "convenience". You also keep iterating it will always be legal. You don't know that.

Of course it will always be legal. You think with all the leftists so adamant that abortions should be convenient that they are threatening the lives of the SCOTUS justices that lib-heavy states will vote to ban abortion.

And the bus ride might be a couple hundred miles? OK, not ideal….but certainly reasonable. When I had to travel out of state for my medical issue, I had to stay overnight in a hotel before I could return the next day. PP can include the cost of a hotel stay in their “Abortion Transport” program.

Let the states decide what restrictions they want to place on killing unborn children. There’s nothing in the constitution that mentions abortion as resting with the federal government.

 

[Coyote]

Were you not addressing her with that post?

No, I made it a stand alone.