Rules For Traditionals: How People In Wedding Trades Can Defend Themselves

[martybegan]

A baker has no stake in a wedding, no role, no anything. Form of expression? What, now bakers are expressing support for weddings? When they sell other cakes what are they expressing and being part of? It;s a silly argument.

Bakers sell other cakes to gays. Do they know what gays do with cakes? Some gays MIGHT be using the cakes during sex. If a gay couple uses a cake during a sexual act, has the Christian offended his god because he participated in a sexual act?

Who cares? The real point is the government shouldn't be forcing people to decide between their morals and their economic well being over a freaking wedding cake, a non-vital, easily replaceable service.

Morals? What morals? Selling a cake involves morals? What about guns? What about wedding rings? What about anything people sell?

your arguments (supposed procedural arguments ) are at best, specious

And your desire to punish people who disagree with you should be criminal. Its not up to you or government to decide what arguments are specious when it comes to a person's moral code, unless there is an overwhelming reason for government to do so, and even then they must used the least intrusive measure to do it.

Not just jump right to "bake the cake or close shop"

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

So, it's okay for small town Gays to be repressed?

And as to bullshit, consider this: if those bakers were in fear of the status of their immortal soul by serving Gays and therefore associating with sinners, why don't those same paranoid bakers thoroughly morally vet each and every customer? They may be baking a cake for an adulterer or a thief or someone who does not honor their parents or someone who fails to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy or worship some god not seen as the One God or take His name in vain. These sins and more are enumerated in the Ten Commandments, unlike homosexuality.

If the souls of these bigoted wedding vendors is in such great peril, should they then take the offensive homosexual to a place outside the walls of town and stone them to death as commanded in the Bible? Should the town high school have a football program? They are touching the skin of a dead pig, thus making them unclean. Should Notre Dame have a football program?

There are plenty of sins and plenty of sinners. Why is it still okay to condemn and repress homosexuals while excusing all the others?

1. In a free society its not up to you to be the moral compass for someone else. The fact you have to go with argumentum ad abusrdum as well shows the general weakness of your points.

2. A wedding is a celebration, a celebration in the case of a same sex marriage is a celebration of said marriage, and by proxy, homosexual acts, done by people willingly. Find me a murder and an adulterer that gets a cake to celebrate that, and informs the baker of this, and then goes ahead and bakes the cake anyway, and you may have a point.

Now weddings have to do with sexual acts. Good gawd, next you'll be saying (on procedural grounds of course ) that couple who cannot bear children cannot get married

Most cultures count consummation as part of the wedding process, several require witnesses if not viewing, at least in earshot.

Good, now move to those cultures

Just shows you can't deal with people who disagree with you.

I ain't goin anywhere, Dainty.

but you love their cultures better than you like ours.

why not go make yourself happy -- and gay?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

A baker has no stake in a wedding, no role, no anything. Form of expression? What, now bakers are expressing support for weddings? When they sell other cakes what are they expressing and being part of? It;s a silly argument.

Bakers sell other cakes to gays. Do they know what gays do with cakes? Some gays MIGHT be using the cakes during sex. If a gay couple uses a cake during a sexual act, has the Christian offended his god because he participated in a sexual act?

Who cares? The real point is the government shouldn't be forcing people to decide between their morals and their economic well being over a freaking wedding cake, a non-vital, easily replaceable service.

Morals? What morals? Selling a cake involves morals? What about guns? What about wedding rings? What about anything people sell?

your arguments (supposed procedural arguments ) are at best, specious

And your desire to punish people who disagree with you should be criminal. Its not up to you or government to decide what arguments are specious when it comes to a person's moral code, unless there is an overwhelming reason for government to do so, and even then they must used the least intrusive measure to do it.

Not just jump right to "bake the cake or close shop"

Punish?

Every time you ask somebody to obey the law you are punishing them? What religious faith do you practice?

It isn't bake a cake or close your shop -- it's sell cakes to all or get the f()ck out of our country. Don't like America? Leave it. Move to Rome. Move to Iran

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Most cultures count consummation as part of the wedding process, several require witnesses if not viewing, at least in earshot.

Western cultures? Well, mostly ALL western cultures but the USA have free health care and strict gun controls.

How's you imbecilic procedural principles doing now?

 

[rightwinger]

A baker has no stake in a wedding, no role, no anything. Form of expression? What, now bakers are expressing support for weddings? When they sell other cakes what are they expressing and being part of? It;s a silly argument.

Bakers sell other cakes to gays. Do they know what gays do with cakes? Some gays MIGHT be using the cakes during sex. If a gay couple uses a cake during a sexual act, has the Christian offended his god because he participated in a sexual act?

We are talking ala carte Christianity here.
They pick and choose which biblical transgressions they refuse to do business with

Pick one:

Pregnant brides
Adulterers
Atheists
Mixed religions
Gay

 

[martybegan]

A baker has no stake in a wedding, no role, no anything. Form of expression? What, now bakers are expressing support for weddings? When they sell other cakes what are they expressing and being part of? It;s a silly argument.

Bakers sell other cakes to gays. Do they know what gays do with cakes? Some gays MIGHT be using the cakes during sex. If a gay couple uses a cake during a sexual act, has the Christian offended his god because he participated in a sexual act?

Who cares? The real point is the government shouldn't be forcing people to decide between their morals and their economic well being over a freaking wedding cake, a non-vital, easily replaceable service.

Morals? What morals? Selling a cake involves morals? What about guns? What about wedding rings? What about anything people sell?

your arguments (supposed procedural arguments ) are at best, specious

And your desire to punish people who disagree with you should be criminal. Its not up to you or government to decide what arguments are specious when it comes to a person's moral code, unless there is an overwhelming reason for government to do so, and even then they must used the least intrusive measure to do it.

Not just jump right to "bake the cake or close shop"

Punish?

Every time you ask somebody to obey the law you are punishing them? What religious faith do you practice?

It isn't bake a cake or close your shop -- it's sell cakes to all or get the f()ck out of our country. Don't like America? Leave it. Move to Rome. Move to Iran

That's what laws do. For laws like things against murder, robbery, and rape, 99.999999% of the population agree that these things are wrong, and you will get punished for it. A far far far smaller amount of people think refusing to sell a wedding cake to a gay couple should warrant punishment.

as for your end rant, NOW who is the one being intolerant? You just can't stand the fact people disagree with you, eh Dainty? Its pretty sad actually.

 

[martybegan]

Most cultures count consummation as part of the wedding process, several require witnesses if not viewing, at least in earshot.

Western cultures? Well, mostly ALL western cultures but the USA have free health care and strict gun controls.

How's you imbecilic procedural principles doing now?

That isn't refuting my point, but thanks for playing. You are clearly running of of viable retorts, and are resorting to lashing and flailing.

 

[martybegan]

A baker has no stake in a wedding, no role, no anything. Form of expression? What, now bakers are expressing support for weddings? When they sell other cakes what are they expressing and being part of? It;s a silly argument.

Bakers sell other cakes to gays. Do they know what gays do with cakes? Some gays MIGHT be using the cakes during sex. If a gay couple uses a cake during a sexual act, has the Christian offended his god because he participated in a sexual act?

We are talking ala carte Christianity here.
They pick and choose which biblical transgressions they refuse to do business with

Pick one:

Pregnant brides
Adulterers
Atheists
Mixed religions
Gay

Again, YOU don't get to qualify a person's moral compass.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Hey Melissa, as of yesterday, you'll be cutting two checks, one for 75K and another for 60K. Hope it was worth it to you.

As for "defending" yourself, just bake the stupid cake. Doing what you already do for a living is hardly too much to ask.

I just don't understand why these bakers etc don't just make the gays the worst, most overpriced, poorly done cake ever made (advance payment required, of course). Its the perfect free market response and will put an end to this real fast

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

So, in a free society it's up to wedding vendors to be the moral compass?

And a wedding cake is flour, sugar, butter and eggs. Not a holy sacrament, not a sacred ritual or rite. And wedding cakes are the stock in trade of bakeries. Their services are enjoyed by other sinners, yet homosexuals seem to occupy a special place in the dark hearts of the bigots, the moral compasses of the community. Able to arbitrate good and evil, sinners and saints according to their own peculiar dictates. Every other customer is fine so long as the check clears. But because of an obscure Biblical passage, the moral compass of the community, the wedding vendor, has a special say.

Its part of the celebration, and as such is an expression of love between two people, a love a large part of the population finds sinful.

Again, find me a murderer or an adulterer who goes to get a cake to celebrate publicly their murder or celebration, and a baker either refused or didn't refuse, and you would have a baseline for your point.

Ah! The Moral Compasses. The wedding vendors who arbi8trate good and evil, sin and saintliness.

Was it proper and fitting for these shimmering examples of puritanical judgment to provide services for Brittany Spears 36 hour marriage? How about a mafia princess's wedding? The money may be bloodstained, but it's still green!

What about the store that sold the paper wedding bells and streamers and the little soap bubble dispensers the wedding party regales the happy couple with? Aren't those 'part of the celebration too? What's the problem? Those vendors did not kbnow that their goods were 'part of the celebration' of a same sex wedding. the baker was aware and used his holier than thou trump card to commit yet even more pettiness and repression in the name of the Lord.

Are those vendors that have refused to serve same sex weddings? You have to deal with this on a case by case basis if you want to make valid comparison.

And you get to the crux of the matter, awareness, that coupled with the level on involvement are critical.

All of this leads back to the real issue, you don't like these people's opinions and choices, and thus they must be crushed by government, That's your worldview, and it is shared by people you may not be fans of.

It's not their opinions I and many others have a problem with. It's their actions and the notion that their morality could trump the plans of customers they have contact with only once.

and the response to that is to force them to either 1) submit, 2) be massively fined and/or 3) go out of business.

That is oppression, pure and simple, its just oppression you agree with.

So we basically say once we designate a person as part of protected class, their butthurt is "better" than anyone else's.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

They picked thier job, dumbass.

Again, you don't get to decide what the responsibilities of their jobs are, dumbass.

Yes, we do. Capitalism is regulated. Time to grow up now pee boy.

You're thinking of fascism. Capitalism isn't regulated.

Hah! Try again! Capitalism is constantly regulated for its own good.

As I already explained, capitalism isn't regulated. Fascism is.

Time to grow up now, Bripiss, no one has unregulated capitalism. Even Adam Smith wasn't opposed.

 

[rightwinger]

A baker has no stake in a wedding, no role, no anything. Form of expression? What, now bakers are expressing support for weddings? When they sell other cakes what are they expressing and being part of? It;s a silly argument.

Bakers sell other cakes to gays. Do they know what gays do with cakes? Some gays MIGHT be using the cakes during sex. If a gay couple uses a cake during a sexual act, has the Christian offended his god because he participated in a sexual act?

We are talking ala carte Christianity here.
They pick and choose which biblical transgressions they refuse to do business with

Pick one:

Pregnant brides
Adulterers
Atheists
Mixed religions
Gay

Again, YOU don't get to qualify a person's moral compass.

I do get to judge it

And by all appearances, it is hypocricy in how their faith is applied

 

[martybegan]

A baker has no stake in a wedding, no role, no anything. Form of expression? What, now bakers are expressing support for weddings? When they sell other cakes what are they expressing and being part of? It;s a silly argument.

Bakers sell other cakes to gays. Do they know what gays do with cakes? Some gays MIGHT be using the cakes during sex. If a gay couple uses a cake during a sexual act, has the Christian offended his god because he participated in a sexual act?

We are talking ala carte Christianity here.
They pick and choose which biblical transgressions they refuse to do business with

Pick one:

Pregnant brides
Adulterers
Atheists
Mixed religions
Gay

Again, YOU don't get to qualify a person's moral compass.

I do get to judge it

And by all appearances, it is hypocricy in how their faith is applied

you get to comment on it, by judging you are more than commenting on it, and you don't have that right, and neither, in this case, does government.

 

[SwimExpert]

People were forced to integrate schools, shops, lunch counters, hotels and yet none of those businesses suffered. Yes indeed. People were 'forced' to do business in a way they did not want to. Stranger than fiction, eh?

Nosmopeasant, you really need to learn actual history before you try to invoke it. There is a difference between legally enforced segregation and what we are facing now. In addition, history has shown us that legally prohibiting discrimination has solved nothing. Discrimination still occurs, and merely finds alternate avenues of expression and new forms of pretext.

 

[Nosmo King]

T

Ah! The Moral Compasses. The wedding vendors who arbi8trate good and evil, sin and saintliness.

Was it proper and fitting for these shimmering examples of puritanical judgment to provide services for Brittany Spears 36 hour marriage? How about a mafia princess's wedding? The money may be bloodstained, but it's still green!

What about the store that sold the paper wedding bells and streamers and the little soap bubble dispensers the wedding party regales the happy couple with? Aren't those 'part of the celebration too? What's the problem? Those vendors did not kbnow that their goods were 'part of the celebration' of a same sex wedding. the baker was aware and used his holier than thou trump card to commit yet even more pettiness and repression in the name of the Lord.

Are those vendors that have refused to serve same sex weddings? You have to deal with this on a case by case basis if you want to make valid comparison.

And you get to the crux of the matter, awareness, that coupled with the level on involvement are critical.

All of this leads back to the real issue, you don't like these people's opinions and choices, and thus they must be crushed by government, That's your worldview, and it is shared by people you may not be fans of.

It's not their opinions I and many others have a problem with. It's their actions and the notion that their morality could trump the plans of customers they have contact with only once.

and the response to that is to force them to either 1) submit, 2) be massively fined and/or 3) go out of business.

That is oppression, pure and simple, its just oppression you agree with.

So we basically say once we designate a person as part of protected class, their butthurt is "better" than anyone else's.

Submission would work well for all concerned. No one is meant to feel like a second class citizen due to the whim of a bigot, the vendors open up a huger new market of customers and the homophobes can still 'feel' as if their customers are sinners without the burden of judgment.

What is it you say? The bigots get their 'feewings' hurt, but their bottom line is expanded.

When hoteliers in the North were 'forced' to accommodate African Americans contrary to their beliefs, they found that green is more powerful than Black. I suppose the narrow minded homophobic vendors will experience the liberation of profit rather than their 'feewing' that they are being 'attacked' by paying customers.

If having to go to another baker makes you feel like a 2nd class citizen, then it isn't my fault, or the baker's fault you have the self esteem of an earthworm.

If it was just the bakers feelings you wanted to hurt, I wouldn't have an issue with it, but you want to ruin them using the government, and that is the real issue.

he issue is a vendor claiming customers are not worthy of dignity due to who those customers might be. By what authority could they sustain such repression?

 

[Nosmo King]

They picked thier job, dumbass.

Again, you don't get to decide what the responsibilities of their jobs are, dumbass.

Yes, we do. Capitalism is regulated. Time to grow up now pee boy.

You're thinking of fascism. Capitalism isn't regulated.

Hah! Try again! Capitalism is constantly regulated for its own good.

As I already explained, capitalism isn't regulated. Fascism is.

All Capitalism is regulated. Believe it. It's true.

 

[martybegan]

Are those vendors that have refused to serve same sex weddings? You have to deal with this on a case by case basis if you want to make valid comparison.

And you get to the crux of the matter, awareness, that coupled with the level on involvement are critical.

All of this leads back to the real issue, you don't like these people's opinions and choices, and thus they must be crushed by government, That's your worldview, and it is shared by people you may not be fans of.

It's not their opinions I and many others have a problem with. It's their actions and the notion that their morality could trump the plans of customers they have contact with only once.

and the response to that is to force them to either 1) submit, 2) be massively fined and/or 3) go out of business.

That is oppression, pure and simple, its just oppression you agree with.

So we basically say once we designate a person as part of protected class, their butthurt is "better" than anyone else's.

Submission would work well for all concerned. No one is meant to feel like a second class citizen due to the whim of a bigot, the vendors open up a huger new market of customers and the homophobes can still 'feel' as if their customers are sinners without the burden of judgment.

What is it you say? The bigots get their 'feewings' hurt, but their bottom line is expanded.

When hoteliers in the North were 'forced' to accommodate African Americans contrary to their beliefs, they found that green is more powerful than Black. I suppose the narrow minded homophobic vendors will experience the liberation of profit rather than their 'feewing' that they are being 'attacked' by paying customers.

If having to go to another baker makes you feel like a 2nd class citizen, then it isn't my fault, or the baker's fault you have the self esteem of an earthworm.

If it was just the bakers feelings you wanted to hurt, I wouldn't have an issue with it, but you want to ruin them using the government, and that is the real issue.

he issue is a vendor claiming customers are not worthy of dignity due to who those customers might be. By what authority could they sustain such repression?

T

Are those vendors that have refused to serve same sex weddings? You have to deal with this on a case by case basis if you want to make valid comparison.

And you get to the crux of the matter, awareness, that coupled with the level on involvement are critical.

All of this leads back to the real issue, you don't like these people's opinions and choices, and thus they must be crushed by government, That's your worldview, and it is shared by people you may not be fans of.

It's not their opinions I and many others have a problem with. It's their actions and the notion that their morality could trump the plans of customers they have contact with only once.

and the response to that is to force them to either 1) submit, 2) be massively fined and/or 3) go out of business.

That is oppression, pure and simple, its just oppression you agree with.

So we basically say once we designate a person as part of protected class, their butthurt is "better" than anyone else's.

Submission would work well for all concerned. No one is meant to feel like a second class citizen due to the whim of a bigot, the vendors open up a huger new market of customers and the homophobes can still 'feel' as if their customers are sinners without the burden of judgment.

What is it you say? The bigots get their 'feewings' hurt, but their bottom line is expanded.

When hoteliers in the North were 'forced' to accommodate African Americans contrary to their beliefs, they found that green is more powerful than Black. I suppose the narrow minded homophobic vendors will experience the liberation of profit rather than their 'feewing' that they are being 'attacked' by paying customers.

If having to go to another baker makes you feel like a 2nd class citizen, then it isn't my fault, or the baker's fault you have the self esteem of an earthworm.

If it was just the bakers feelings you wanted to hurt, I wouldn't have an issue with it, but you want to ruin them using the government, and that is the real issue.

The issue is a vendor claiming customers are not worthy of dignity due to who those customers might be. By what authority could they sustain such repression?

First, I fixed your formatting, you are welcome.

Since when has being a customer been about dignity, but about getting a product or a service for payment? Again, if your ,micro-agression fearing frail ass can't take you finding out someone doesn't like your lifestyle, it isn't the government's responsibility to compensate you by force for your "pain"

 

[SwimExpert]

The issue is a vendor claiming customers are not worthy of dignity due to who those customers might be.

So, cake is the measure of dignity?

If you're that stupid, than you're not worthy of dignity.

 

[danielpalos]

I believe the Right is being disingenuous when claiming they are for lower regulation; arbitrary and capricious Standards by any private sector are never better than Standards fixed by the public sector.

 

[Nosmo King]

The issue is a vendor claiming customers are not worthy of dignity due to who those customers might be.

So, cake is the measure of dignity?

If you're that stupid, than you're not worthy of dignity.

A customer is stripped of dignity when a vendor says she is not worthy of service due to her legal lifestyle.

 

[rightwinger]

A baker has no stake in a wedding, no role, no anything. Form of expression? What, now bakers are expressing support for weddings? When they sell other cakes what are they expressing and being part of? It;s a silly argument.

Bakers sell other cakes to gays. Do they know what gays do with cakes? Some gays MIGHT be using the cakes during sex. If a gay couple uses a cake during a sexual act, has the Christian offended his god because he participated in a sexual act?

We are talking ala carte Christianity here.
They pick and choose which biblical transgressions they refuse to do business with

Pick one:

Pregnant brides
Adulterers
Atheists
Mixed religions
Gay

Again, YOU don't get to qualify a person's moral compass.

I do get to judge it

And by all appearances, it is hypocricy in how their faith is applied

you get to comment on it, by judging you are more than commenting on it, and you don't have that right, and neither, in this case, does government.

As a dues paying member of USMB I get to judge anyone I wish