Rules of Engagement (ROE) CHANGED...Hurray!!!

[JoeB131]

You thought the numbers was what I was addressing?

I think that the thing you should address are your own racism and anger management, but never mind.

THEIR OWN PEOPLE hate them!
Wrong!

Wasn't talking about local leaders, most of whom are pro-Taliban. Was talking about the corrupt ass government in Kabul that is failing to get the job done.

In short NOT OUR FUCKING PROBLEM. I'm sorry this fail is going to happen on Trump's watch and people will call him a loser, but he might as well start getting used to it now.

In fact if you read what Trump said in his Afghan speech well here in his OWN words:

I don't pay any attention to what the scriptwriters put in front of him and muttered "don't let him go off page...don't let him go off page. Sweet Evil Jesus, don't let him go off page!"

I mean, I guess this speech was considered "good" because he stayed on script and didn't say anything crazy.

But the problem remains. If the afghans haven't gotten their shit together in 16 years, they aren't going to. Throwing away more American lives and money isn't going to fix that.

 

[JoeB131]

So you the military expert are telling me that by telling the bad guys ..."Hey we've been ordered by our dimwit Commander in Chief that if you are going to
fire on us ... we the US military will NOT fire back because we can only go in areas that I'm reasonably certain that I will not have to fire back"!
Yup that's the gist of it. So the bad guys KNOW ...."hey let's take over this town because their dimwit commander in chief has told his troops don't go there
because you might have to use your weapons"!

Sure now I know WHY you are no longer in the military! Chicken!

You I mean I didn't feel like dying for the Jews and the Oil Companies, yeah, I consider that a healthy sense of self-preservation. Of course my job as a Sergeant wasn't to worry about "policy", it was to make sure my troops were taken care of.

Also, the ROE's aren't really what you are portraying them as and really, not the problem.

The problem is, our policy in Afghanistan has become Santayana's definition of a fanatic. We lost sight of our goal a long time ago.

 

[Conservative65]

You thought the numbers was what I was addressing?

I think that the thing you should address are your own racism and anger management, but never mind.

THEIR OWN PEOPLE hate them!
Wrong!

Wasn't talking about local leaders, most of whom are pro-Taliban. Was talking about the corrupt ass government in Kabul that is failing to get the job done.

In short NOT OUR FUCKING PROBLEM. I'm sorry this fail is going to happen on Trump's watch and people will call him a loser, but he might as well start getting used to it now.

In fact if you read what Trump said in his Afghan speech well here in his OWN words:

I don't pay any attention to what the scriptwriters put in front of him and muttered "don't let him go off page...don't let him go off page. Sweet Evil Jesus, don't let him go off page!"

I mean, I guess this speech was considered "good" because he stayed on script and didn't say anything crazy.

But the problem remains. If the afghans haven't gotten their shit together in 16 years, they aren't going to. Throwing away more American lives and money isn't going to fix that.

What you need to address is your hypocrisy. You said, and I quote, "Doubling down on Afghanistan was one of the things I criticize Obama for. The exercise became pointless after Karzai stole the election in 2009." After I said you don't criticize Obama, you said, and I quote, "He (Obama) surged that to 100,000 to push back the Taliban" (referencing the increase from the 25,000 under Bush. You can't criticize and praise someone for doing the same thing.

Keep kissing his ass, NL. You have some competition, though.

 

[JoeB131]

What you need to address is your hypocrisy. You said, and I quote, "Doubling down on Afghanistan was one of the things I criticize Obama for. The exercise became pointless after Karzai stole the election in 2009." After I said you don't criticize Obama, you said, and I quote, "He (Obama) surged that to 100,000 to push back the Taliban" (referencing the increase from the 25,000 under Bush. You can't criticize and praise someone for doing the same thing.

Keep kissing his ass, NL. You have some competition, though.

That was just pointing out numbers... it wasn't praise. Now, I've gone into this in other posts.

Obama wanted to criticize the War in Iraq, which his based HATED, and most of the rest of the country, except for mutants like you and HealthMitts, realized was a terrible, no-good, awful idea. But he didn't want to get the typical peacenick label Democrats get hung around their necks. SO he called Afghanistan the War of Necessity (it wasn't) and IRaq the War of Choice (It was.)

Now, in 2008, you could have made the argument a surge was a good idea, but in 2009, when it was ongoing, Karzai stole the 2009 election and pretty much rendered the whole issue moot. We were never, ever going to turn Afghanistan into a Democracy.

So Obama realized his mistake, but instead of just saying as much to the US people, he slowly started drawing down the troops while nobody was really looking anymore.

This isn't worthy of praise, it's avoiding the conversation. To his credit, he managed to kill Bin Laden (something Bush had failed to do). But he still left us entangled in that mess.

Now, I realize that if you aren't blurting out the N-word like your Klan-reject ass does, that probably qualifies as "ass kissing", but most sensible people would find that a balanced critique.

Regardless of what Obama did or didn't do, it makes no sense for Trump to go diving back into that mess so that the fall of Kabul doesn't happen on his watch.

 

[Conservative65]

What you need to address is your hypocrisy. You said, and I quote, "Doubling down on Afghanistan was one of the things I criticize Obama for. The exercise became pointless after Karzai stole the election in 2009." After I said you don't criticize Obama, you said, and I quote, "He (Obama) surged that to 100,000 to push back the Taliban" (referencing the increase from the 25,000 under Bush. You can't criticize and praise someone for doing the same thing.

Keep kissing his ass, NL. You have some competition, though.

That was just pointing out numbers... it wasn't praise. Now, I've gone into this in other posts.

Obama wanted to criticize the War in Iraq, which his based HATED, and most of the rest of the country, except for mutants like you and HealthMitts, realized was a terrible, no-good, awful idea. But he didn't want to get the typical peacenick label Democrats get hung around their necks. SO he called Afghanistan the War of Necessity (it wasn't) and IRaq the War of Choice (It was.)

Now, in 2008, you could have made the argument a surge was a good idea, but in 2009, when it was ongoing, Karzai stole the 2009 election and pretty much rendered the whole issue moot. We were never, ever going to turn Afghanistan into a Democracy.

So Obama realized his mistake, but instead of just saying as much to the US people, he slowly started drawing down the troops while nobody was really looking anymore.

This isn't worthy of praise, it's avoiding the conversation. To his credit, he managed to kill Bin Laden (something Bush had failed to do). But he still left us entangled in that mess.

Now, I realize that if you aren't blurting out the N-word like your Klan-reject ass does, that probably qualifies as "ass kissing", but most sensible people would find that a balanced critique.

Regardless of what Obama did or didn't do, it makes no sense for Trump to go diving back into that mess so that the fall of Kabul doesn't happen on his watch.

You also said Obama did with the surge what Bush didn't do, that's praise. Look up the definition.

Most people, other than those that kiss Obama's ass no matter what he does, see what you do as ass kissing. Pucker up.

 

[JoeB131]

You also said Obama did with the surge what Bush didn't do, that's praise. Look up the definition.

Put in more troops? Because that's all he really accomplished.

Most people, other than those that kiss Obama's ass no matter what he does, see what you do as ass kissing. Pucker up.

again, you need to get over your racism before someone gets hurt.

 

[Conservative65]

You also said Obama did with the surge what Bush didn't do, that's praise. Look up the definition.

Put in more troops? Because that's all he really accomplished.

Most people, other than those that kiss Obama's ass no matter what he does, see what you do as ass kissing. Pucker up.

again, you need to get over your racism before someone gets hurt.

What racism? Pointing out that you kiss Obama's ass because he's black isn't racism. You doing it for that reason is. Pucker up.

You were called out on your hypocrisy with Obama and Afghanistan. Be a man once in your life and admit it. Or continue the trend of your tree.

 

[JoeB131]

What racism?

You do realize that using the N-word makes you a racist, right?

 

[healthmyths]

What racism?

You do realize that using the N-word makes you a racist, right?

OH you mean like these people?
Lyndon Johnson said the word “******” a lot.
In Senate cloakrooms and staff meetings, Johnson was practically a connoisseur of the word. According to Johnson biographer Robert Caro, Johnson would calibrate his pronunciations by region, using “nigra” with some southern legislators and “negra” with others. Discussing civil rights legislation with men like Mississippi Democrat James Eastland, who committed most of his life to defending white supremacy, he’d simply call it “the ****** bill.”
Then in 1957, Johnson would help get the “****** bill” passed, known to most as the Civil Rights Act of 1957. With the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act, the segregationists would go to their graves knowing the cause they’d given their lives to had been betrayed, Frank Underwood style, by a man they believed to be one of their own. When Caro asked segregationist Georgia Democrat Herman Talmadge how he felt when Johnson, signing the Civil Rights Act, said ”we shall overcome,” Talmadge said “sick.”Lyndon Johnson was a civil rights hero. But also a racist.

He continued: “I think we try to have good will. My old mom told me, ‘Robert, you can’t go to heaven if you hate anybody.’ We practice that. There are white *******. I’ve seen a lot of white ******* in my time; I’m going to use that word.Sen. Byrd Apologizes for Racial Epithet

Every black person who lives in the United States at some point or another comes to accept one thing: the “N-word” is not going away. Whether you use it or not, whether you are OK with it or deeply offended by it, it’s a word weighted down with so much history and so much pain that is impossible to avoid. (We have left the word uncensored in the discussion that follows.)

The general consensus among most black people is that “******” is a word best left for us to grapple with. In other words: non-black people — and especially white people — shouldn’t use it. That means colloquially or derogatorily, in context or out. And honestly, we know you’re going to use it anyway, but don’t use it around us.

 

[JoeB131]

OH you mean like these people?
Lyndon Johnson said the word “******” a lot.

Yes, he did. Do you have a point, or are you just going to spew boilerplate.

Every black person who lives in the United States at some point or another comes to accept one thing: the “N-word” is not going away. Whether you use it or not, whether you are OK with it or deeply offended by it, it’s a word weighted down with so much history and so much pain that is impossible to avoid. (We have left the word uncensored in the discussion that follows.)

Okay, but you see, the thing is, your buddy Conservative uses it here. A lot. Even though the filter keeps him from using it, he tries anyway. And then he claims he's not racist because rappers use it. Or something.

And anyone who agrees with Obama on a policy, or even tries to explain a policy Obama supported, it a N-lover.

Because the man has issues.

So will you chastise Conservative65 for using the term or not?

 

[Conservative65]

What racism?

You do realize that using the N-word makes you a racist, right?

Not when you've made exceptions for a TERM you call racist not being racist. If the TERM is racist, it's racist 100% of the time or 0% of the time. You've already gone away from the 100% with your exceptions and your bullshit context excuse.

Does a stop sign mean anything but stop if it's 3 0'clock in the morning. It either means stop or it doesn't.

 

[theHawk]

What's our vital interest in staying in Afghanistan at this point?

Ask Obama, he stayed there for eight years.

 

[Conservative65]

OH you mean like these people?
Lyndon Johnson said the word “******” a lot.

Yes, he did. Do you have a point, or are you just going to spew boilerplate.

Every black person who lives in the United States at some point or another comes to accept one thing: the “N-word” is not going away. Whether you use it or not, whether you are OK with it or deeply offended by it, it’s a word weighted down with so much history and so much pain that is impossible to avoid. (We have left the word uncensored in the discussion that follows.)

Okay, but you see, the thing is, your buddy Conservative uses it here. A lot. Even though the filter keeps him from using it, he tries anyway. And then he claims he's not racist because rappers use it. Or something.

And anyone who agrees with Obama on a policy, or even tries to explain a policy Obama supported, it a N-lover.

Because the man has issues.

So will you chastise Conservative65 for using the term or not?

Did you call Lyndon Johnson a racist?

I claim that you're a hypocrite because you say using a TERM is racist then says it's not. I claim that if you make exceptions when those that agree with you do something and only apply things to those that done, you're a hypocrite.

The TERM is either racist EVERY TIME it's used or it's not racist at all. Context means nothing.

 

[healthmyths]

So you the military expert are telling me that by telling the bad guys ..."Hey we've been ordered by our dimwit Commander in Chief that if you are going to
fire on us ... we the US military will NOT fire back because we can only go in areas that I'm reasonably certain that I will not have to fire back"!
Yup that's the gist of it. So the bad guys KNOW ...."hey let's take over this town because their dimwit commander in chief has told his troops don't go there
because you might have to use your weapons"!

Sure now I know WHY you are no longer in the military! Chicken!

You I mean I didn't feel like dying for the Jews and the Oil Companies, yeah, I consider that a healthy sense of self-preservation. Of course my job as a Sergeant wasn't to worry about "policy", it was to make sure my troops were taken care of.

Also, the ROE's aren't really what you are portraying them as and really, not the problem.

The problem is, our policy in Afghanistan has become Santayana's definition of a fanatic. We lost sight of our goal a long time ago.

"I didn't feel like dying for the Jews and the Oil Companies,"
A) That makes you anti-Semitic and a KKK advocate! For shame!
B) Your admiration for Obama is certainly apparent but are you aware that Obama's presidency did the following to make the USA MORE dependent on foreign OIL!
1) Obama was so uneducated about the economics of gas i.e. here is what HE wanted to see: "I'd like higher gas prices, just not so quickly.."

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

“Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe.”
Federal OIL LEASES under OBAMA in 4 years new leases under Obama 5,109 new leases.. an average of 1,277 leases over 4 years
Under Bush.. from 2006 to 2008 23,569 new leases an average per year of 2,946 leases over 8 years.
Obama has overseen a reduction of 177% in new leases http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/energy/oil_and_gas/statistics.html
Conclusion: The most direct impact on increasing Americans' dependence on "oil companies" and foreign oil a president has is the leasing of federal land for oil.

2) OBAMA actually told : pledged that the United States will be a "major customer" for Brazilian oil in the coming years
Obama says US to be major purchaser of Brazilian oil
Conclusion: OBAMA DISCOURAGED domestic oil production by increasing rules/regulations and signing fewest oil leases on Federal land and encouraging foreign OIL!

These actions certainly INCREASED the USA dependence on foreign OIL which you so stupidly showed not only the ignorance of your statement:
"I didn't feel like dying the Oil Companies"
but how you are an apologist for Obama's terrible bungling and ignorance!

 

[Conservative65]

What racism?

You do realize that using the N-word makes you a racist, right?

OH you mean like these people?
Lyndon Johnson said the word “******” a lot.
In Senate cloakrooms and staff meetings, Johnson was practically a connoisseur of the word. According to Johnson biographer Robert Caro, Johnson would calibrate his pronunciations by region, using “nigra” with some southern legislators and “negra” with others. Discussing civil rights legislation with men like Mississippi Democrat James Eastland, who committed most of his life to defending white supremacy, he’d simply call it “the ****** bill.”
Then in 1957, Johnson would help get the “****** bill” passed, known to most as the Civil Rights Act of 1957. With the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act, the segregationists would go to their graves knowing the cause they’d given their lives to had been betrayed, Frank Underwood style, by a man they believed to be one of their own. When Caro asked segregationist Georgia Democrat Herman Talmadge how he felt when Johnson, signing the Civil Rights Act, said ”we shall overcome,” Talmadge said “sick.”Lyndon Johnson was a civil rights hero. But also a racist.

He continued: “I think we try to have good will. My old mom told me, ‘Robert, you can’t go to heaven if you hate anybody.’ We practice that. There are white *******. I’ve seen a lot of white ******* in my time; I’m going to use that word.Sen. Byrd Apologizes for Racial Epithet

Every black person who lives in the United States at some point or another comes to accept one thing: the “N-word” is not going away. Whether you use it or not, whether you are OK with it or deeply offended by it, it’s a word weighted down with so much history and so much pain that is impossible to avoid. (We have left the word uncensored in the discussion that follows.)

The general consensus among most black people is that “******” is a word best left for us to grapple with. In other words: non-black people — and especially white people — shouldn’t use it. That means colloquially or derogatorily, in context or out. And honestly, we know you’re going to use it anyway, but don’t use it around us.

Joe will say a TERM is racist then come up with all sorts of exceptions why it's not. When you make those kinds of exceptions that often, the claim becomes invalid. It's like the boy that cried wolf. Don't be shocked if Joe tells you that a red traffic light means stop except when it doesn't based on context.

 

[JoeB131]

Not when you've made exceptions for a TERM you call racist not being racist. If the TERM is racist, it's racist 100% of the time or 0% of the time. You've already gone away from the 100% with your exceptions and your bullshit context excuse.

Does a stop sign mean anything but stop if it's 3 0'clock in the morning. It either means stop or it doesn't.

Depends. If it's on the street, yeah, it means stop. If its in a bar, it's a decoration.

Context. It's one of those concepts you don't understand.

 

[Conservative65]

Not when you've made exceptions for a TERM you call racist not being racist. If the TERM is racist, it's racist 100% of the time or 0% of the time. You've already gone away from the 100% with your exceptions and your bullshit context excuse.

Does a stop sign mean anything but stop if it's 3 0'clock in the morning. It either means stop or it doesn't.

Depends. If it's on the street, yeah, it means stop. If its in a bar, it's a decoration.

Context. It's one of those concepts you don't understand.

Context. One of those concepts you misuse to avoid admitting your hypocrisy.

Hey, NL, if the TERM is racist, it's racist 100% of the time or 0% of the time. You pick.

 

[healthmyths]

What you need to address is your hypocrisy. You said, and I quote, "Doubling down on Afghanistan was one of the things I criticize Obama for. The exercise became pointless after Karzai stole the election in 2009." After I said you don't criticize Obama, you said, and I quote, "He (Obama) surged that to 100,000 to push back the Taliban" (referencing the increase from the 25,000 under Bush. You can't criticize and praise someone for doing the same thing.

Keep kissing his ass, NL. You have some competition, though.

That was just pointing out numbers... it wasn't praise. Now, I've gone into this in other posts.

Obama wanted to criticize the War in Iraq, which his based HATED, and most of the rest of the country, except for mutants like you and HealthMitts, realized was a terrible, no-good, awful idea. But he didn't want to get the typical peacenick label Democrats get hung around their necks. SO he called Afghanistan the War of Necessity (it wasn't) and IRaq the War of Choice (It was.)

Now, in 2008, you could have made the argument a surge was a good idea, but in 2009, when it was ongoing, Karzai stole the 2009 election and pretty much rendered the whole issue moot. We were never, ever going to turn Afghanistan into a Democracy.

So Obama realized his mistake, but instead of just saying as much to the US people, he slowly started drawing down the troops while nobody was really looking anymore.

This isn't worthy of praise, it's avoiding the conversation. To his credit, he managed to kill Bin Laden (something Bush had failed to do). But he still left us entangled in that mess.

Now, I realize that if you aren't blurting out the N-word like your Klan-reject ass does, that probably qualifies as "ass kissing", but most sensible people would find that a balanced critique.

Regardless of what Obama did or didn't do, it makes no sense for Trump to go diving back into that mess so that the fall of Kabul doesn't happen on his watch.

You wrote: "To his credit, he managed to kill Bin Laden (something Bush had failed to do)."
Obama did not KILL Bin Laden. He was President when the final phase of tracking Osama down (not done by Bush but authorized by Bush) that took
The operation ended a nearly 10-year search for bin Laden, following his role in the September 11, 2001 attacks on the US.
Death of Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia
STARTED 10 years BEFORE... so Obama was NOT involved when this was started!
Also here is Obama sitting in the comfort of the WH... NOT at all involved directly in the killing!
AN Observer at the most! Do you see him pulling the trigger?

 

[Conservative65]

What you need to address is your hypocrisy. You said, and I quote, "Doubling down on Afghanistan was one of the things I criticize Obama for. The exercise became pointless after Karzai stole the election in 2009." After I said you don't criticize Obama, you said, and I quote, "He (Obama) surged that to 100,000 to push back the Taliban" (referencing the increase from the 25,000 under Bush. You can't criticize and praise someone for doing the same thing.

Keep kissing his ass, NL. You have some competition, though.

That was just pointing out numbers... it wasn't praise. Now, I've gone into this in other posts.

Obama wanted to criticize the War in Iraq, which his based HATED, and most of the rest of the country, except for mutants like you and HealthMitts, realized was a terrible, no-good, awful idea. But he didn't want to get the typical peacenick label Democrats get hung around their necks. SO he called Afghanistan the War of Necessity (it wasn't) and IRaq the War of Choice (It was.)

Now, in 2008, you could have made the argument a surge was a good idea, but in 2009, when it was ongoing, Karzai stole the 2009 election and pretty much rendered the whole issue moot. We were never, ever going to turn Afghanistan into a Democracy.

So Obama realized his mistake, but instead of just saying as much to the US people, he slowly started drawing down the troops while nobody was really looking anymore.

This isn't worthy of praise, it's avoiding the conversation. To his credit, he managed to kill Bin Laden (something Bush had failed to do). But he still left us entangled in that mess.

Now, I realize that if you aren't blurting out the N-word like your Klan-reject ass does, that probably qualifies as "ass kissing", but most sensible people would find that a balanced critique.

Regardless of what Obama did or didn't do, it makes no sense for Trump to go diving back into that mess so that the fall of Kabul doesn't happen on his watch.

You wrote: "To his credit, he managed to kill Bin Laden (something Bush had failed to do)."
Obama did not KILL Bin Laden. He was President when the final phase of tracking Osama down (not done by Bush but authorized by Bush) that took
The operation ended a nearly 10-year search for bin Laden, following his role in the September 11, 2001 attacks on the US.
Death of Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia
STARTED 10 years BEFORE... so Obama was NOT involved when this was started!
Also here is Obama sitting in the comfort of the WH... NOT at all involved directly in the killing!
AN Observer at the most! Do you see him pulling the trigger?
View attachment 146374

Wait for Joe to use, "well in context, . . . "

 

[JoeB131]

"I didn't feel like dying for the Jews and the Oil Companies,"
A) That makes you anti-Semitic and a KKK advocate! For shame!

No, when a group gets us into 25 years of war so they can play "God Loves me the Very best" that's actually a valid criticism.

B) Your admiration for Obama is certainly apparent but are you aware that Obama's presidency did the following to make the USA MORE dependent on foreign OIL!

then why did our import level go down. Here's the thing, the problem isn't where were are getting the oil from. The problem is war after war to keep the oil flowing. And yes, I think Obama followed the same policies everyone else did, that's the problem. What we should have done in 1974, the first time the Arabs realized they could screw us with oil, we should have engaged in a crash program to get off oil. Instead we have spent that time trying to play hall monitor in the middle east.

so once we have the honest conversation that we are over their fighting for the Jews and Oil Companies, maybe Americans won't be so keen to sign up for that shit.