Russian agreement with Ukraine Putin IS allowed 25,000 troops in Crimea

tinydancer

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2010
51,845
12,821
Well, well, well. What game is being run down on us again? One more time I will put forth the disclaimer that I am no fan of Russia or Putin.

But I am one hell of a fan of the truth. And I am sick to death of being lied to by Western governments including my conservative one. And most of our freaking media.

We got involved in Egypt with our leaders telling us the Muslim Brotherhood was a secular organization who was pro democracy.

We got involved in Libya and that country has turned into a dogs breakfast with militias running the place.

We almost got involved big time in Syria before it was discovered that these so called rebels were paid mercenaries and some had ties to AQ.

Now this. A 1997 Ukraine - Russia agreement that allows Putin up to 25,000 troops in Crimea.

Don't forget there is a major naval base there.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves

[Updated, 8 p.m., March 3: WASHINGTON — CIA director John Brennan told a senior lawmaker Monday that a 1997 treaty between Russia and Ukraine allows up to 25,000 Russia troops in the vital Crimea region, so Russia may not consider its recent troop movements to be an invasion, U.S. officials said.

The number of Russian troops that have surged into Ukraine in recent days remains well below that threshold, Brennan said, according to U.S. officials who declined to be named in describing private discussions and declined to name the legislator.

Though Brennan disagrees that the treaty justifies Russia’s incursion, he urged a cautious approach, the officials said.

Administration officials have said Moscow violated the treaty, which requires the Russian navy, which bases its Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol, to coordinate all military movements on the Crimean peninsula with Ukraine.


CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves - latimes.com
 
25,000 troops and not a neo nazi in sight over in the Ukraine. Rarer than the albino deer. I thought the reason they were invading was to protect the russian speaking Ukranians? Where are all these Ukrainians they accuse of being neo nazis? Holding a candle vigil with prayers. Peacefully camping out and refusing to leave because they don't trust the Russians.

25,000 Russian troops sent into Ukraine over peaceful citizens armed with candles.

Justifying Russian moves here. Looks like they need some help.
 
Well if the Ukraine needs help then let Europe help them.

Whats the UN stance on this bullshit??

Just listened to Kerry, that idiot, talking about the poor Ukranians and how we need to help them. Well. I guess a billion dollars, that we don't have, would help them. Wonder if Mrs. Kerry will pay that billion back??

Talk about a bunch of bullshit. Putin is LHAO.
 
25,000 troops and not a neo nazi in sight over in the Ukraine. Rarer than the albino deer. I thought the reason they were invading was to protect the russian speaking Ukranians? Where are all these Ukrainians they accuse of being neo nazis? Holding a candle vigil with prayers. Peacefully camping out and refusing to leave because they don't trust the Russians.

25,000 Russian troops sent into Ukraine over peaceful citizens armed with candles.

Justifying Russian moves here. Looks like they need some help.

With all due respect you are not understanding the issue in the Crimea. And this is limited to Crimea.

Demographically this state is 60% ethnic Russian to begin with. They are pro Russia (the Ukraine split this way).

Russia has had their naval base in Crimea for eons and Russian citizens man that naval base.

And legally he is allowed due to the 1997 agreement to have 25,000 troops in Crimea.

Oh and the neo nazis that they accuse of being in Kiev? They are in the transitional team of the new government.

It's not bullshit. And Putin's move into Crimea is to prevent this new government in Kiev from taking over the naval base and to protect Russian citizens.

I'm not making excuses. I believe in facts.
 
That treaty does not allow them to seize control of the Ukraine military and tell them to lay down their arms.
 
Well if the Ukraine needs help then let Europe help them.

Whats the UN stance on this bullshit??

Just listened to Kerry, that idiot, talking about the poor Ukranians and how we need to help them. Well. I guess a billion dollars, that we don't have, would help them. Wonder if Mrs. Kerry will pay that billion back??

Talk about a bunch of bullshit. Putin is LHAO.

The one billion floored me. Giving a bankrupt country a billion from the US almost another bankrupt country.

This is what I'm so pissed off at. Apparently we Canucks are supposed to chip in to. My freaking tax dollars just because Ukrainians wanted to join the EU.

Let the EU freaking bail them out. And hey I'm Ukrainian by heritage but this is a load of bullshit going down.

Cripes. When will this bullshit end?

And then if our glorious leaders decide they need to punish Putin over what is now appearing to be another pile of crap and lies because it is beginning to come out that he might very well have legal standing in this issue, our bloody gas prices and every thing else is going to go thru the roof.
 
That treaty does not allow them to seize control of the Ukraine military and tell them to lay down their arms.

As far as I have seen the Russian Military have made no aggressive moves. We shall see what happens. All that has happened so far is that the Russian military has secured Crimea and it appears now they are legally in the clear.
 
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That treaty does not allow them to seize control of the Ukraine military and tell them to lay down their arms.

As far as I have seen the Russian Military have made no aggressive moves. We shall see what happens. All that has happened so far is that the Russian military has secured Crimea and it appears now they are legally in the clear.

they shot over the heads of the Ukranian guards at the naval yards forcing them to leave their posts.

That is aggression.
 
My point in this is that if we have been handed a load of bullshit again over a lie of "naked aggression omg we have to run in and save the day" I am going to be more than pissed off. I might change my political stripes up here.

I'm sick of the bullshit. I'm sick of supporting world police when all I elected my government to do was to fix freaking pot holes and run MY freaking country.

Not everyone elses.
 
That treaty does not allow them to seize control of the Ukraine military and tell them to lay down their arms.

As far as I have seen the Russian Military have made no aggressive moves. We shall see what happens. All that has happened so far is that the Russian military has secured Crimea and it appears now they are legally in the clear.

they shot over the heads of the Ukranian guards at the naval yards forcing them to leave their posts.

That is aggression.

Where are you getting this stuff? Unarmed Ukrainians started marching towards the Russians and the soldiers fired a couple of warning shots to get them to back off.
 
Russian MP: Troops 'entitled' to be in Crimea

4 hours ago

A Russian MP has defended the country's military presence in the eastern region of Crimea.

Vyacheslav Nikonov, from President Putin's United Russia party, said troops were 'entitled' to be there under a treaty between the two countries.

The politician added that it was "naïve" to expect Russian military to stand aside after the Ukrainian coup.

Mr Nikonov told BBC Radio 5 live's Breakfast: "Russia is entitled to have up to 25,000 troops there. I don't think there are more than 15,000."


BBC News - Russian MP: Troops 'entitled' to be in Crimea
 
So their surrounding Ukraine military facilities and seizing Ukraine facilities and demanding surrender of Ukraine warship is just their doing what the treaty gives them the right to do?
As far as I have seen the Russian Military have made no aggressive moves. We shall see what happens. All that has happened so far is that the Russian military has secured Crimea and it appears now they are legally in the clear.
they shot over the heads of the Ukranian guards at the naval yards forcing them to leave their posts.

That is aggression.

Where are you getting this stuff? Unarmed Ukrainians started marching towards the Russians and the soldiers fired a couple of warning shots to get them to back off.
 
So their surrounding Ukraine military facilities and seizing Ukraine facilities and demanding surrender of Ukraine warship is just their doing what the treaty gives them the right to do?
they shot over the heads of the Ukranian guards at the naval yards forcing them to leave their posts.

That is aggression.

Where are you getting this stuff? Unarmed Ukrainians started marching towards the Russians and the soldiers fired a couple of warning shots to get them to back off.

There is a lot of bullshit out there. Back to the shots fired, aggressive behavior by Russian troops OMG they are going to kill everyone.

Check out what really happened. Man, you have to cut thru the crap they are handing us.
Video at link. CBC has backed up this report as well.

Seems a lot of other news outlets want bloodshed because they sure are beating war drums.

He shoots... he scores! Moments after Russian troops fired warning shots over their heads, Ukrainian soldiers get on with something more important – a game of football

By Simon Tomlinson

PUBLISHED: 16:47 GMT, 4 March 2014 | UPDATED: 17:15 GMT, 4 March 2014

You would be forgiven for thinking this kickabout was taking place on a lunch break at some remote army barracks - not on the frontline of a region braced for war.

Just moments earlier, these Ukrainian soldiers had been involved in a tense stand-off with Russian troops who fired warning shots over their heads in a dispute over a strategic air base.

But despite the escalating crisis on the Crimea, they still felt relaxed enough to arrange a game of football, while the Russians looked on, unimpressed.

article-2573006-1C08F71100000578-549_634x423.jpg


Earlier, around 300 Ukrainian soldiers had marched towards the Russians who had seized control of the Belbek airfield, which they had previously manned, to demand their jobs back.

About a dozen Russian soldiers at the base warned the Ukrainians not to get any closer.

They fired several warning shots into the air and said they would shoot the Ukrainians if they continued to advance.

The Ukrainian forces are believed to be led by Colonel Yuli Mamchor, commander of the Ukrainian military garrison at Belbek, who was seen speaking to gun-wielding Russian troops at the air base.

article-2573006-1C08FA7D00000578-115_634x423.jpg


After Russian troops fire warning shots, Ukrainian soldiers play football | Mail Online
 
At some point, world leaders might recognize that obama's preferred methods of dealing with others are the methods of the community organizer. Destabilize the current government the same way racial unrest destabilizes cities. That was only an outraged few are necessary to bring everyone in line. The oppressed minority becomes the defacto ruler. It doesn't matter who is elected. Oppose the election. Everyone is lying but them.

Putin is certainly smart enough to have figured out that obama uses any method, including muslim terrorists to destabilize whatever government has fallen in his sights. What will Putin do about it? I hope it's decisive and designed to be final.
 
So their surrounding Ukraine military facilities and seizing Ukraine facilities and demanding surrender of Ukraine warship is just their doing what the treaty gives them the right to do?
Where are you getting this stuff? Unarmed Ukrainians started marching towards the Russians and the soldiers fired a couple of warning shots to get them to back off.

There is a lot of bullshit out there. Back to the shots fired, aggressive behavior by Russian troops OMG they are going to kill everyone.

Check out what really happened. Man, you have to cut thru the crap they are handing us.
Video at link. CBC has backed up this report as well.

Seems a lot of other news outlets want bloodshed because they sure are beating war drums.

He shoots... he scores! Moments after Russian troops fired warning shots over their heads, Ukrainian soldiers get on with something more important – a game of football

By Simon Tomlinson

PUBLISHED: 16:47 GMT, 4 March 2014 | UPDATED: 17:15 GMT, 4 March 2014

You would be forgiven for thinking this kickabout was taking place on a lunch break at some remote army barracks - not on the frontline of a region braced for war.

Just moments earlier, these Ukrainian soldiers had been involved in a tense stand-off with Russian troops who fired warning shots over their heads in a dispute over a strategic air base.

But despite the escalating crisis on the Crimea, they still felt relaxed enough to arrange a game of football, while the Russians looked on, unimpressed.

article-2573006-1C08F71100000578-549_634x423.jpg


Earlier, around 300 Ukrainian soldiers had marched towards the Russians who had seized control of the Belbek airfield, which they had previously manned, to demand their jobs back.

About a dozen Russian soldiers at the base warned the Ukrainians not to get any closer.

They fired several warning shots into the air and said they would shoot the Ukrainians if they continued to advance.

The Ukrainian forces are believed to be led by Colonel Yuli Mamchor, commander of the Ukrainian military garrison at Belbek, who was seen speaking to gun-wielding Russian troops at the air base.

article-2573006-1C08FA7D00000578-115_634x423.jpg


After Russian troops fire warning shots, Ukrainian soldiers play football | Mail Online

Since your raised awareness I have been digging deeper and expanding my efforts. Holy COW Tinydancer, you are absolutely RIGHT. This is a neo Nazi movement in Europe to the point where obama threatened Israel with European anti Semitism! Kerry said today in his speech that the Ukranian president had no right to reject the EU trade agreement in favor of the Russian trade agreement. The neo Nazis are not the same as the old Master Race Nazis, but they do have many of the same principles including a dovetail with some interests of muslim radicals.

Interestingly enough, Hispanic Los Angeles gang members have been discovered in the middle east training with Hezbollah (link given at another topic). After which they come here, as Hispanics, melting right in with the Hispanic population.
 
So their surrounding Ukraine military facilities and seizing Ukraine facilities and demanding surrender of Ukraine warship is just their doing what the treaty gives them the right to do?

There is a lot of bullshit out there. Back to the shots fired, aggressive behavior by Russian troops OMG they are going to kill everyone.

Check out what really happened. Man, you have to cut thru the crap they are handing us.
Video at link. CBC has backed up this report as well.

Seems a lot of other news outlets want bloodshed because they sure are beating war drums.

He shoots... he scores! Moments after Russian troops fired warning shots over their heads, Ukrainian soldiers get on with something more important – a game of football

By Simon Tomlinson

PUBLISHED: 16:47 GMT, 4 March 2014 | UPDATED: 17:15 GMT, 4 March 2014

You would be forgiven for thinking this kickabout was taking place on a lunch break at some remote army barracks - not on the frontline of a region braced for war.

Just moments earlier, these Ukrainian soldiers had been involved in a tense stand-off with Russian troops who fired warning shots over their heads in a dispute over a strategic air base.

But despite the escalating crisis on the Crimea, they still felt relaxed enough to arrange a game of football, while the Russians looked on, unimpressed.

article-2573006-1C08F71100000578-549_634x423.jpg


Earlier, around 300 Ukrainian soldiers had marched towards the Russians who had seized control of the Belbek airfield, which they had previously manned, to demand their jobs back.

About a dozen Russian soldiers at the base warned the Ukrainians not to get any closer.

They fired several warning shots into the air and said they would shoot the Ukrainians if they continued to advance.

The Ukrainian forces are believed to be led by Colonel Yuli Mamchor, commander of the Ukrainian military garrison at Belbek, who was seen speaking to gun-wielding Russian troops at the air base.

article-2573006-1C08FA7D00000578-115_634x423.jpg


After Russian troops fire warning shots, Ukrainian soldiers play football | Mail Online

Since your raised awareness I have been digging deeper and expanding my efforts. Holy COW Tinydancer, you are absolutely RIGHT. This is a neo Nazi movement in Europe to the point where obama threatened Israel with European anti Semitism! Kerry said today in his speech that the Ukranian president had no right to reject the EU trade agreement in favor of the Russian trade agreement. The neo Nazis are not the same as the old Master Race Nazis, but they do have many of the same principles including a dovetail with some interests of muslim radicals.

Interestingly enough, Hispanic Los Angeles gang members have been discovered in the middle east training with Hezbollah (link given at another topic). After which they come here, as Hispanics, melting right in with the Hispanic population.

I'll tell you when I first started peeling this onion I kept double checking and I still do that I haven't accidentally clicked on Info Wars.

I don't know if you saw Svoboda's party platform that I put up but it includes those old familiar phrases like "nationalized" "state owned farmlands" and a new one "Ukrainaphobia" which they are going to criminalize if you speak out against the Motherland.

Oh and a biggie. The promise to rebuild a Ukrainian nuclear arsenal. Not nuclear energy. But weaponry.

I'm telling you I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy :eusa_angel:
 
Oh and as we are discussing this horrible naked aggressive invasion in Crimea take a look at this picture.

What caught my eye was the bottom right hand corner. :) We're being handed a pant load.

article-0-1C06B89C00000578-98_634x460.jpg
 
Please forgive me but should we say that Canada's ruling elite are either stupid or sympathetic to far-right ideologies? How can so many educated(?) and well-informed(?) Canadians be wrong?

The Ukrainian flag is flying over the Canadian parliament. Seriously:

"The blue-and-yellow Ukrainian flag waved on Parliament Hill Tuesday in a show of support for the besieged country."

"The gesture comes a day after the House of Commons unanimously passed a motion condemning Russia’s military intervention in Ukraine."

Ukrainian flag flown on Parliament Hill

Did the House of Commons really vote unanimously in support of the far-right?

Please help me to understand this?

.
 
Please forgive me but should we say that Canada's ruling elite are either stupid or sympathetic to far-right ideologies? How can so many educated(?) and well-informed(?) Canadians be wrong?

The Ukrainian flag is flying over the Canadian parliament. Seriously:

"The blue-and-yellow Ukrainian flag waved on Parliament Hill Tuesday in a show of support for the besieged country."

"The gesture comes a day after the House of Commons unanimously passed a motion condemning Russia’s military intervention in Ukraine."

Ukrainian flag flown on Parliament Hill

Did the House of Commons really vote unanimously in support of the far-right?

Please help me to understand this?

.

I'm spitting freaking bullets. I can't explain this to you.

If you check anything that I have put up on this board I don't just slag Obama I have been going hell bent for leather against my Conservative government who I have backed for years.

I am royally pissed off. And I've been sending off emails like crazy to officials in my party as well as starting a media blitz.
 
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Oh and as we are discussing this horrible naked aggressive invasion in Crimea take a look at this picture.

What caught my eye was the bottom right hand corner. :) We're being handed a pant load.

article-0-1C06B89C00000578-98_634x460.jpg


I don't recall anyone saying it was an aggressive invasion by Russia other than Kerry saying it.
It was a peaceful invasion.
The Ukrainian military peaceful put down their arms.
So far that I have heard the Ukrainian war ships have not come back to base to peacefully lay down their arms and are still at sea.
 

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