Same bullshit, different decade: What members of the gay rights movement could learn from history

[rightwinger]

So throwing people off the roof of buildings is the criteria?

That's what you should be outraged over, not some Christian who won't cater a gay wedding. Because as you can see, Christians don't kill people they disagree with. Not in this day and age. Those who do are no better than ISIS.

So as long as they are better than ISIS, we have no reason to complain

 

[NYcarbineer]

What would you call an EMT, fireman, policeman or doctors who refused their services because of their religious beliefs?

Nonexistent.

Doctor Refuses To Care For Gay Couple s Baby - Is This Conservative Media s Religious Freedom Blog Media Matters for America

A Michigan pediatrician refused to work with the baby of a same-sex couple, citing her anti-gay religious beliefs. It's another case that highlights the potential dangers of conservative media's campaign to champion "religious freedom" in the face of anti-gay discrimination.

 

[Seawytch]

Sucking a guys cock doesn't make a dude gay either. Judaism is a choice.

It's not gay if the balls dont touch!
No, Judaism is not simply a choice. Engaging in gay sex makes someone gay.And that is a choice.

No it doesn't. I could have sex with a guy right now...I'd still be gay. Religion IS a choice, unlike being gay.

So it's an illness?

Nope...just a normal human condition.

Yes, sin is a natural human condition
Christians, typically, don't encourage people to continue in sin
In return we're called hateful bigots

Only when you try to legislate your religious beliefs or use the bible to justify anti gay bigotry. What would you call someone that refused to serve an interracial couple because they believe the bible forbids it? We'd still call them racist bigots.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's not gay if the balls dont touch!
No, Judaism is not simply a choice. Engaging in gay sex makes someone gay.And that is a choice.

No it doesn't. I could have sex with a guy right now...I'd still be gay. Religion IS a choice, unlike being gay.

So it's an illness?

Nope...just a normal human condition.

Yes, sin is a natural human condition
Christians, typically, don't encourage people to continue in sin
In return we're called hateful bigots

Only when you try to legislate your religious beliefs or use the bible to justify anti gay bigotry. What would you call someone that refused to serve an interracial couple because they believe the bible forbids it? We'd still call them racist bigots.

Kentucky Church Bans Interracial Couples
Dec. 1, 2011
By CHRISTINA NG

A small Appalachian church in Kentucky is being called racist for passing a vote that banned interracial couples from the church.

The Gulnare Freewill Baptist Church voted 9 to 6 on Sunday to ban interracial couples from church services or functions, with the exception of funerals.

Stella Harville, 24, and her fiance Ticha Chikuni, 28, are the couple that prompted the church's actions. Harville is white and Chikuni is black. The couple met at Georgetown College in Kentucky where both went to school and are scheduled to marry in July 2012.

Kentucky Church Bans Interracial Couples - ABC News

Note: the church later relented and reversed the ban...

 

[Seawytch]

ISIS is throwing gays off the roofs of buildings for being gay. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

And your position is closer to ISIS. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

Thing is, ISIS does worse things to gays than those evil Christians in America do. But alas, silence from you.

Christians in other countries do just as horrible things to gays as Muslims in other countries do. Here in America neither Muslims or Christians can throw us off buildings without consequences despite a desire to do so.

And no, we're not silent.

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh and for those who never say those things, and simply refuse to cater their weddings because of their religious beliefs, I'd call them brave, not bigots.

What would you call an EMT, fireman, policeman or doctors who refused their services because of their religious beliefs?

You're an idiot, like that's news.
A fireman, etc is employed by the city under certain terms.
A baker is self employed and sets his own terms.
/fail.

 

[The Rabbi]

ISIS is throwing gays off the roofs of buildings for being gay. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

And your position is closer to ISIS. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

Thing is, ISIS does worse things to gays than those evil Christians in America do. But alas, silence from you.

Christians in other countries do just as horrible things to gays as Muslims in other countries do. Here in America neither Muslims or Christians can throw us off buildings without consequences despite a desire to do so.

And no, we're not silent.

Link?
Nope. You just made that up.

 

[The Rabbi]

ISIS is throwing gays off the roofs of buildings for being gay. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

And your position is closer to ISIS. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

Thing is, ISIS does worse things to gays than those evil Christians in America do. But alas, silence from you.

Thing is, ISIS does worse things to Christians than those evil gays in America do. But alas, silence from you.

Templar has never posted something that was against ISIS? Seriously?

 

[mdk]

ISIS is throwing gays off the roofs of buildings for being gay. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

And your position is closer to ISIS. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

Thing is, ISIS does worse things to gays than those evil Christians in America do. But alas, silence from you.

Thing is, ISIS does worse things to Christians than those evil gays in America do. But alas, silence from you.

 

[mdk]

ISIS is throwing gays off the roofs of buildings for being gay. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

And your position is closer to ISIS. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

Thing is, ISIS does worse things to gays than those evil Christians in America do. But alas, silence from you.

Thing is, ISIS does worse things to Christians than those evil gays in America do. But alas, silence from you.

Templar has never posted something that was against ISIS? Seriously?

Of course he has and so have I. Apparently if you don't spend you're time focusing on ISIS's atrocities you can't mention what you feel are injustices here in America.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Oh and for those who never say those things, and simply refuse to cater their weddings because of their religious beliefs, I'd call them brave, not bigots.

What would you call an EMT, fireman, policeman or doctors who refused their services because of their religious beliefs?

You're an idiot, like that's news.
A fireman, etc is employed by the city under certain terms.
A baker is self employed and sets his own terms.
/fail.

No he doesn't. A baker starts a business he is subject to all applicable business laws.

 

[NYcarbineer]

ISIS is throwing gays off the roofs of buildings for being gay. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

And your position is closer to ISIS. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

Thing is, ISIS does worse things to gays than those evil Christians in America do. But alas, silence from you.

Christians in other countries do just as horrible things to gays as Muslims in other countries do. Here in America neither Muslims or Christians can throw us off buildings without consequences despite a desire to do so.

And no, we're not silent.

TK is trying the 'hey what about those other guys' defense of the crimes against gays he supports.

 

[Seawytch]

ISIS is throwing gays off the roofs of buildings for being gay. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

And your position is closer to ISIS. Shouldn't you be spending your free time working on that problem?

Thing is, ISIS does worse things to gays than those evil Christians in America do. But alas, silence from you.

Thing is, ISIS does worse things to Christians than those evil gays in America do. But alas, silence from you.

Thing is, ISIS is killing more Muslims than anything else. Silence from just about everybody.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I often see them comparing the gay struggle for equality to that of the African American struggle for racial equality, "same bullshit, different decade" they contend. Well, true, but not in the way they think. The comparison is flawed, for two reasons.

Yeah, I know what's coming too, the standard volley of how "gays should be allowed to marry" or "why do you hate gays?" or the run of the mill cherrypicked Bible verse or two. I've seen it all pretty much. The whole playbook. So for those of you intent on repeating that tired rhetoric, can it.

The short version:

Reason 1: Martin Luther King sought understanding through tolerance and understanding during the Civil Rights movement. In fact, he didn't speak in terms of tolerance, but of love, a Christian based love. He employed a doctrine passivity, not subversion. Even in the face of having the lives his and his fellow African Americans torn apart by racist sentiments and policies, they chose not to do the same to their oppressors. This attitude allowed for no further division of an already helplessly, racially divided America.

Reason 2: Homosexual and Liberal gay rights activists want to force you to be understanding and tolerant of their cause for equality, without ever being understanding or tolerant themselves. Amounting to nothing more than a vengeful, subversive doctrine of unyielding, unwavering tolerance at whatever cost; to be especially employed towards Christian private business owners. This allows for further division between them and those the LGBT rights movement is trying to reach.

The rest of it:

For King, nothing would ever advance the cause of equality by repaying intolerance with intolerance, hatred with hatred, or violence with violence. "Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that," he said. That however is in stark contrast to how the gay rights movement has decided to react to the assumed hatred and bigotry on the behalf of religious private business owners.

The Kingsian philosophy of tolerance, passivity and nonviolence consisted of six main principles:

1) First he said, one can resist evil without resorting to violence.

2) Second, nonviolence seeks to win the ‘‘friendship and understanding’’ of the opponent, not to humiliate him (King, Stride, p.84).

3) Furthermore, third, evil itself, not the people committing evil acts, should be opposed.

4) Fourth, he continued, is that those committed to nonviolence must be willing to suffer without retaliation as suffering itself can be redemptive.

5) Fifthly, nonviolent resistance avoids ‘‘external physical violence’’ and ‘‘internal violence of spirit’’ as well: ‘‘The nonviolent resister not only refuses to shoot his opponent but he also refuses to hate him" (King, Stride, p.85). The resister should be motivated by love in the sense of the Greek word agape, which means ‘‘understanding,’’ or ‘‘redeeming good will for all men’’ (King, Stride, p.86).

6) Lastly, he states the sixth principle, which was that the nonviolent resister should have a ‘‘deep faith in the future,’’ stemming from the conviction that ‘‘the universe is on the side of justice’’ (King, Stride, p.88).

King held the philosophy akin to the old folk hymn, "keep your eyes on the prize." To be frank, that prize wasn't putting some unwitting business owner out on the street for being racist or intolerant. Yeah, business owners were racist and intolerant back then, but not even they (the blacks, and most of them I'd think) thought it was okay to ruin someone, besides, what were they going to do? Sue every Tom, Dick, and Harry who discriminated against them? Not really. Such a movement spurred Congress to end the discussion on racial inequality once and for all, you know the rest.

If only gay rights activists and liberal pro gay rights activists took the approach specifically covered in the third, fourth and fifth principle, I would guarantee that there would be a more broad understanding and sympathy towards gay rights and equality, moreso than exists at this point in time.

Proposing gay activists study and learn from history is somewhat self-defeating. Last thing ya want is for us to remember Stonewall, and how that all worked.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why single out MLK as the lesson of history as to how to fight for rights? Why not use the American Revolution?

lol

 

[Bfgrn]

What would you call an EMT, fireman, policeman or doctors who refused their services because of their religious beliefs?

Nonexistent.

Deflection. Please explain how a law that would allow a bakery to refuse service to gays because of their religious beliefs would not ALSO allow an EMT, fireman, policeman or doctors to refused their services because of their religious beliefs?

Try to think like a grown adult...take your time...

 

[Bfgrn]

Doctor Refuses To Care For Gay Couple s Baby - Is This Conservative Media s Religious Freedom Blog Media Matters for America

A Michigan pediatrician refused to work with the baby of a same-sex couple, citing her anti-gay religious beliefs. It's another case that highlights the potential dangers of conservative media's campaign to champion "religious freedom" in the face of anti-gay discrimination.

But, but but...TK said they are "Nonexistent"

 

[Political Junky]

The Right hated folks that looked like that in the 60s & 70s. Just look how much they've changed.

If you mean by "the right" Democrats, yes.

Democrats hated hippies?

 

[The Rabbi]

The Right hated folks that looked like that in the 60s & 70s. Just look how much they've changed.

If you mean by "the right" Democrats, yes.

Democrats hated hippies?

The Dispatch - Google News Archive Search

 

[Seawytch]

What would you call an EMT, fireman, policeman or doctors who refused their services because of their religious beliefs?

Nonexistent.

Deflection. Please explain how a law that would allow a bakery to refuse service to gays because of their religious beliefs would not ALSO allow an EMT, fireman, policeman or doctors to refused their services because of their religious beliefs?

Try to think like a grown adult...take your time...

You know...there IS room for compromise regarding PA laws. If you provide non essential services in a populated area, you should be able to refuse to serve anyone you want. If there is another baker, florist, tuxedo rental, etc. within, say, a 20 mile radius you can refer the individuals to, you should be able to send the black, gay, Jewish person, etc. to the other business.

I think the business should have to state up front who they won't serve though...