Same sex marriage

[High_Gravity]

If Bill Clinton was able to, and ran against obama, he'd be elected today probably by a landslide in all 57 states.

If GW Bush was able to, and ran against Obama, he'd be elected today as well, in a landslide of the 57 states.

Bush is better than anyone the Republicans have now, even McCain was.

 

[bodecea]

That's not the way it works though is it. It didn't work that way in Sweden.

Nettavisen: News in English

And for the same reasons.

It was decriminalized in 1944 in connection with the decriminalization of homosexual sex.

Beastiality has been legalized in the US military as a consequence of the end of DADT.

It will happen, because that is the trend. Incest is legal in countries that have long ago accepted the normalization of same sex relationships. Marriage between brother and sister is legal in Sweden.

Saying that these things won't happen is senseless. Of course it will. Just because YOU don't like the way someone chooses to enjoy sex doesn't mean they shouldn't have the right to conduct their affairs in private OR public if they choose to do so. The liberal trend is toward degeneracy. It will continue until it ends that culture. In Sweden, where liberalism is further along that we are, the end is going to be by the growth of islam.

Prove it.

This board had an extensive discussion on the subject. Go look it up.

No, it behoves you to provide the evidence. FAIL on your part.

 

[Claudette]

OK.

You win.

I support gay marriage.

Now....I am curious.....what logical fallcies did I use to justify my prejudice?

I ask becuase I am confused seeing as I have supported gay marriage since the day it became a public debate....and been quite open about it on this forum.

Equating gay marriage with bestiality or sex with a rubber doll is a logical fallacy.

Is heterosexual marriage the same as sex with a rubber doll? If not, why is gay marriage?

Is heterosexual marriage the same as sex with a horse? If not, why is gay marriage?

The point, stupid, is no one gives a fuck in what or in whom you stick your dick. Seriously. It's none of our business. We don't give a fuck.
Does that help?

Bingo.

I could care less about gays being married. Shit if they want to be miserable like so many heteros then have at it. Of course they could pick the right person and have a great marriage. LOL

I, like Warrior Man, could care less who anyone has sex with. Jeeze. I've got bigger things to worry about.

 

[52ndStreet]

YOU ARE NOT THE SPOKESMAN FOR THE BLACK RACE, SHUT THE FUCK UP!

The majority of black people do reject interracial marriage and homosexuality.
Go into some of these black hoods mr. High Gravity preaching your liberal accept the white
homo marriage, we are all the same philosophy and see what will happen to you.!
You will get shot the fuck up!! with a 9 mm.

LMAO! Listen here faggot, Black people have been some of the most accepting people of interracial couples on this earth, back during segregation and the Jim Crow laws the Black community accepted people who were half black and half white as one of their own, Frederick Douglass had a white father, Malcolm X was a quarter white, Bob Marley was half white, Barack Obama has a white mother, so you can take your racist garbage and stick it up your pussy bitch, because its obvious you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Like I said Mr. High Gravity, Homo marriage, interracial race mixer preacher, go into
some of these hard core Black ghetto hoods, preaching Homo marriage, and interracialism
with these white devil fags, and lesbos, and liberal race mixers, trying to steal our black
sisters, and see how long you will last!. Just pick a black hood in New York , Chicago, or L.A.. Get back to me on this. Let me know what hospital to come visit you in after you give
your liberal pro white , pro homo marriage speech.! I guarantee you will get your shit
fucked up in a black hood. Blacks are not accepting any queer fag liberal shit as you may think they would.

 

[High_Gravity]

The majority of black people do reject interracial marriage and homosexuality.
Go into some of these black hoods mr. High Gravity preaching your liberal accept the white
homo marriage, we are all the same philosophy and see what will happen to you.!
You will get shot the fuck up!! with a 9 mm.

LMAO! Listen here faggot, Black people have been some of the most accepting people of interracial couples on this earth, back during segregation and the Jim Crow laws the Black community accepted people who were half black and half white as one of their own, Frederick Douglass had a white father, Malcolm X was a quarter white, Bob Marley was half white, Barack Obama has a white mother, so you can take your racist garbage and stick it up your pussy bitch, because its obvious you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Like I said Mr. High Gravity, Homo marriage, interracial race mixer preacher, go into
some of these hard core Black ghetto hoods, preaching Homo marriage, and interracialism
with these white devil fags, and lesbos, and liberal race mixers, trying to steal our black
sisters, and see how long you will last!. Just pick a black hood in New York , Chicago, or L.A.. Get back to me on this. Let me know what hospital to come visit you in after you give
your liberal pro white , pro homo marriage speech.! I guarantee you will get your shit
fucked up in a black hood. Blacks are not accepting any queer fag liberal shit as you may think they would.

LMAO! There's more race mixing going on in those Black "hoods" than anywhere else faggot, now go to sleep. You make us Black folks look bad.

 

[Nosmo King]

Homosexuality is not an illegal activity. That's an important point, so I'll say it again. Homosexuality is not an illegal activity. Homosexuals who are of the age of consent, not already married and willing to enter a marriage contract with another homosexual should be legally allowed to to just that.

If it isn't illegal, if both parties are of legal age, if they enter the marriage contract willingly~ what's the problem?

Churches could still refuse to perform the marriage ceremony. It's hard to believe that churches would not perform the ceremony, but I'm not about to have the state compel them to do so. Some churches would not perform inter racial marriages. And, once the stilted, ossified, bigoted members died off, those churches saw the hypocrisy in their initial refusal and now happily perform inter racial marriage ceremonies.

The only objection to same sex marriage is that it's not normal. It is fair to read that objection as simple hateful homophobia, because that's precisely what it is.

There can be no logical, reasonable, thoughtful objection to same sex marriage. Only hateful ignorance.

 

[AmericanFirst]

A same sex union is not just as normal as a marriage between a man and a woman.Same sex implies homosexuality, which is not normal, homosexuality is abnormal.
Homosexuals should not be given the same rights as a man and woman child bearing family. The government must move to ban and or criminalize homosexuality.

Why? What harm is done by it?

Left-handedness is also abnormal. Should it be criminalized?

Left handedness is not a choice, homosexuality is a choice to be abnormal.

 

[frazzledgear]

Why is their a problem with the Christian right dealing with the problem with same sex marriage – As it should be a no brainer that two consenting adults; being a man and woman, two men, or, two women should have the same and equal right to decide they want to be a married couple.

The federal and state governments have given special perks to married couples. The ability to file joint tax returns perks dealing with a lower tax, the right to decide when one of the spouses is near or close to death.

The Christian right says that same sex couples never last, because they are free to change sexual partners at will. My view, men and women, just like two men or two women change sexual partners just at the same rate as each other. Still, would not a married same sex couple be more incline to stay married for life if they were married then being two people in an agreement to stay with each other.

On the other hand, if a same sex couple was married to each other: would not they be without sin as they are in a married relationship – As the right points out people that are in a sexual union without being married are in sin. My point, a same sex union is just as normal as a sex union between a man and a woman.

Why is it the left is so arrogant as to believe THEY know best and literally BILLIONS of human beings both alive and in the past -do not? I bet you firmly believe in the theory of evolution, right? Are you also arrogant enough to believe YOU know better about how to best design living things that will best insure the survival of their species?

The institution of marriage EVOLVED to what it is as the one institution that best provides one of THE most stabilizing forces of a society. This is where you leftwing extremist nutjobs lose the argument. In spite of the drivel you wrote above, marriage is NOT about COUPLING. Marriage isn't about who you CHOOSE to love -love whoever the hell you want! But let's STOP THE PRETENSE that a same sex partner is the only adult relationship not recognized as a marriage! It is one of MANY adult relationships that are not recognized as a marriage. And believe it or not, the reason for that is ENTIRELY RATIONAL and it hasn't a damn thing to do with discrimination or homophobia.

Marriage evolved to what it is because it is THE repeatedly PROVEN best way of raising and preparing the next generation to be stable, productive members of society ready to take over as the previous generations ages and dies off. PERIOD. That's it. And the next best situation for raising the next generation is so far down the list as to nearly amount to child abuse because it is THAT measurably UNFAVORABLE for producing mentally healthy, productive members of society. There is NO anti-homosexual agenda behind the EVOLUTION of marriage and in fact religious beliefs merely reaffirm that evolution process of THE most stabilizing institution of society.

So it is no wonder it is one under constant attack by the left -especially given the fact their own repeatedly written agenda details their necessity for the destruction of this institution and render it meaningless because doing so will DESTABILIZE society. The left seeks the increased DESTABILIZATION of society -because it is their belief doing so will result in increased social unrest, increased crime rates and increased chaos -leading people to DEMAND that government "do something" about it. In other words, the left sees this is a way of getting people to VOLUNTARILY forfeit their rights and just hand them over to government. The left believes in LARGE, POWERFUL government with massive control over the individual -and everything they do and everything on their agenda is about getting that result. Because they also know American conservatives oppose large, powerful, centralized government -they also know they will be the ones running it.

The push to redefine marriage is about increasing the POWER of the left while deflecting attention from what is really going on by manipulating the way in which the topic is even discussed. They rigidly AVOID talking about the FACT traditional marriage of the biological mother and father is THE single most best proven way of raising the next generation and THE most stabilizing force of society -and pretend it is really all about making Joe and Bob happy and "hey, you have to be a mindless bigot who just hates homosexuals if you don't want Joe and Bob to be HAPPY by having the state call their affair a "marriage". The "useful idiots" will respond by insisting reality itself must be redefined as well and it is no part of the leftwing agenda even though the necessity of destroying marriage BECAUSE it is the most stabilizing force of society has been committed to paper by too many leftwing radicals to even count.

This is ENTIRELY about what is best for our SPECIES and future generations -NOT about what makes Bob and Joe personally happy. Because the left actively seeks the DESTABILIZATION of society because they believe it will give them far more POWER, any discussion about the very real impact redefining marriage has already had in countries with the most experience with it -is either completely ignored and they outright lie and insist it is totally unrelated.

Leftwingers are in reality the most arrogant and self-centered people on the planet, and the ones ignorant enough to believe the left pushes gay marriage because they actually CARE about gays instead of READING THEIR OWN DOCTRINE that specifically says this is entirely about destroying marriage itself BECAUSE doing so will DESTABILIZE society -which the left actively seeks -are nothing but dangerous patsies. Or as the left has repeatedly referred to them "useful idiots". But believe it or not, other people really do care what they leave to their own descendants and undermining THE single most stabilizing pillar of all societies isn't one they wish to inflict on their descendants and thereby increase their misery.

Redefining marriage to include homosexual couples does several things all at the same time. But let's get one thing clear here -marriage is NOT a right. It has NEVER been a right in ANY society it is not a right in ours either. Which is why states were given the authority to determine the prerequisites in order to get a license -including a marriage license. It is a state granted PRIVILEGE and ALWAYS has been. NOT a "right". Only if you choose someone the state has deemed to be an eligible marriage partner, are you ALLOWED to legally marry. You can't marry someone who is already married, you can't marry more than one person at the same time, you can't demand the state recognize your commune as a "marriage", you can't marry a child even with the consent of that child's parents, you can't marry your own offspring even if they are consenting adults, you can't marry your sibling even if a consenting adult, you can't marry your niece or nephew even if consenting adults, you can't marry an animal and in a few states still you must undergo premarital blood testing before getting married -tested for sickle cell anemia, Tay-Sachs, syphilis and rubella. All diseases that will or have the potential for the horrible impairment or early death of CHILDREN. Because marriage is about producing and raising the next generation -NOT about who you are temporarily coupling with.

Marriage evolved over the course of thousands of years to be about how to best raise the next generation to be stable, productive members of society themselves. Marriage is about having and raising CHILDREN. Not about who you want to couple with at the moment. In other words marriage isn't about whether Joe loves Bob and thinks the state should call their affair a "marriage".

It is now a proven FACT that redefining marriage to include homosexual couples DOES significantly and negatively affect THE single most stabilizing pillar of society. The most significant change with THE most documented and proven ramifications is that it permanently changes people's perceptions about the very purpose of marriage from it being about having and raising children to it being just about who you want to COUPLE with for the moment. It doesn't matter if YOU personally agree with that or not -it is PROVEN to be true, this is a FACT -and the people who suffer for that alteration are CHILDREN themselves. All you have to do is check with countries with the longest experience with redefining or undermining the institution and the result is always the same. People stop marrying since it becomes a pretty meaningless word that just means "a couple for now" -but they don't stop having children. Which means they start having children in situations we already know for a FACT is more HARMFUL to them while the most beneficial one is rejected -BECAUSE the very perception of the purpose of marriage was altered by the redefinition. Which the left knows -and actively seeks. Marriage is increasingly seen as a meaningless institution that is just a step above high priced "dating". But the problem is -they do NOT stop having children. They just stop having them in the most beneficial setting for them and choose one that is so INFERIOR as to be proven to be harmful. It is why the left insists the redefinition of marriage hasn't stopped people from marrying -while avoiding the REAL impact they stop marrying for the purpose of having CHILDREN. Which has inflicted MASSIVE and long lasting harm on entire generations. Liberals are the ones who constantly insist the ONLY thing a child needs is "love" -well that is just a flat out LIE! One that has been repeatedly PROVEN to be a lie too many times to count!

This is REALLY about the left insisting the conversation MUST be confined to a false one entirely in order to avoid the REAL discussion about what is actually best for society itself. So they insist the discussion be confined to one about Joe and Bob and insisting those who disagree with them must all be nothing but homophobic bigots. Because they do NOT want to discuss the fact they are in reality insisting the personal happiness of a tiny minority is far more valuable to society than the mental well being of entire future generations who PROVABLY will suffer much higher rates of suicide, drug addiction, violent crimes, promiscuity (which endangers health), anti-social and psychopathic behavior, mental illness and the inability to form good relationships themselves -which will provably exponentially INCREASE again for THEIR children! The left does NOT want any discussion about what is seen to be happening in places like Denmark where they want to pretend the fact children there now have THE highest rates of mental illness among western children is totally unrelated to the fact Denmark also has the longest experience with same sex marriage and in fact these statistics are inversely correlated. In Denmark suicide is the leading cause of death for EIGHT YEAR OLDS. They have THE longest experience with same sex marriage -and they also have THE highest rate of mental illness and suicide in the western hemisphere among their CHILDREN. But let's pretend that is totally unrelated to the fact that their society has come to believe marriage is merely about coupling and not about raising the next generation, right? Which is why the overwhelming majority of first and second children are born out of wedlock and nearly half of third born children are as well! Yet these same children see on average six men come and go out of their mother's life before they reach 16. And we also know for a FACT from repeated studies, that the level of sociopathy in males is directly related to the number of men a boy sees come and go in his mother's life before reaching 16 -and it is directly related to self-destructive behavior in both genders not the least of which is having their own children out of wedlock and inflicting an even worse situation on their own children since the level of severity of poor mental health worsens with each generation. What kind of LIFE is happening that the leading cause of death for even EIGHT YEAR OLDS is SUICIDE?

But to the left, THIS and even far worse for MILLIONS of children is all worth it as long as Joe and Bob get to call their average 8 year long affair a "marriage", during which they will have cheated with an average of 6 different people EACH (which we know for a fact is a destabilizing factor to the marriage) before finally breaking up. But oh sure, let's pretend it's really no different from a heterosexual one that lasts on average long enough to raise a child to adulthood and the number of people the spouses COMBINED on average will cheat with is less than two.

 

[Nosmo King]

A same sex union is not just as normal as a marriage between a man and a woman.Same sex implies homosexuality, which is not normal, homosexuality is abnormal.
Homosexuals should not be given the same rights as a man and woman child bearing family. The government must move to ban and or criminalize homosexuality.

Why? What harm is done by it?

Left-handedness is also abnormal. Should it be criminalized?

Left handedness is not a choice, homosexuality is a choice to be abnormal.

You've never met a homosexual that you know of, have you? To say homosexuality is a choice is patently ridiculous.

 

[Katzndogz]

Even I can't go so far as to say homosexuality is a choice. It clearly isn't because the incidents of homosexuality have been stable throughout all of recorded human history. In men that have made a choice to engage in homosexual relationships for one reason or other, go back to women only means they were never homosexual at all. Young men that have chosen such experimentation face an almost insurmountable task in returning to heterosexuality as the entirety of societal pressure is put on them to remain homosexuals. The best they can do, the most helpful is move away, get another job, go to another school and hope no one finds you.

 

[bodecea]

The Bible tells us a marriage is between and Man and a Woman, and they'll become ONE. As far as i know, i never read in the bible anything about a black man/white woman, or visa versa, not being able to marry. It's still a Man and Woman. Homosexuality is condemned in the Bible. There's no question about it, although many want to overlook that part and re-word what's said to their liking. No matter what anyone thinks, it doesn't change the fact that it's considered a sin.

So we should be basing our laws on the bible? Why not on the Koran too? What does the bible say about divorce?

Not all...but many of our laws are the same laws that are in the Bible.
The Koran is NOTHING like the Christian Bible, there's no comparison.
The Bible does have instructions on divorce. God does not condemn ALL divorces. If a man or woman in a marriage commits adultry or "unfaithfulness", that is accepted. some believes this also covers abusive marriages, which would also be considered "unfaithful". Any other reason for a divorce is not condoned...this explains it a little better...

What Does The Bible Say About Divorce?

Such as....?

 

[Nosmo King]

So we should be basing our laws on the bible? Why not on the Koran too? What does the bible say about divorce?

Not all...but many of our laws are the same laws that are in the Bible.
The Koran is NOTHING like the Christian Bible, there's no comparison.
The Bible does have instructions on divorce. God does not condemn ALL divorces. If a man or woman in a marriage commits adultry or "unfaithfulness", that is accepted. some believes this also covers abusive marriages, which would also be considered "unfaithful". Any other reason for a divorce is not condoned...this explains it a little better...

What Does The Bible Say About Divorce?

Such as....?

What's a fair price to pay for a slave. What crops to plant next to one another. What to do with adulterers (I guess we nominate them for President in the GOP!). What kind of cloth to wear. What condiments are acceptable on a pulled pork sandwich. You know, Biblical law.

 

[g5000]

So much work, so little time...

This is where you leftwing extremist nutjobs lose the argument. In spite of the drivel you wrote above, marriage is NOT about COUPLING. Marriage isn't about who you CHOOSE to love -love whoever the hell you want! But let's STOP THE PRETENSE that a same sex partner is the only adult relationship not recognized as a marriage! It is one of MANY adult relationships that are not recognized as a marriage.

Careful. You are real close to equating homosexuality to harmful activities.

And believe it or not, the reason for that is ENTIRELY RATIONAL and it hasn't a damn thing to do with discrimination or homophobia.

Actually, that is all it is, after you remove all the ranting and smoke and mirrors. It is just hate. Period.

Marriage evolved to what it is because it is THE repeatedly PROVEN best way of raising and preparing the next generation to be stable, productive members of society ready to take over as the previous generations ages and dies off. PERIOD. That's it. And the next best situation for raising the next generation is so far down the list as to nearly amount to child abuse because it is THAT measurably UNFAVORABLE for producing mentally healthy, productive members of society. There is NO anti-homosexual agenda behind the EVOLUTION of marriage and in fact religious beliefs merely reaffirm that evolution process of THE most stabilizing institution of society.

Then we must immediately ban childless marriages, obviously.

So it is no wonder it is one under constant attack by the left -especially given the fact their own repeatedly written agenda details their necessity for the destruction of this institution and render it meaningless because doing so will DESTABILIZE society.

No, people like Newt Gingrich, David Vitter, Bill Clinton, Marcus Lamb, Jim Bakker, John Ensign, Mark Sanford, and so many others are doing a bang-up job of utterly destroying the institution of marriage. Don't even think of trying to pin that one on gays.

The left seeks the increased DESTABILIZATION of society

This is yet another logical fallacy commonly called a "strawman". These are very popular with TV pundits. This bit was accompanied with a massive strawman, but I have excised it for the sake of brevity. I doubt anyone wants to re-read it any more than I do.

Leftwingers are in reality the most arrogant and self-centered people on the planet, and the ones ignorant enough to believe the left pushes gay marriage because they actually CARE about gays instead of READING THEIR OWN DOCTRINE that specifically says this is entirely about destroying marriage itself BECAUSE doing so will DESTABILIZE society

I think at this point I will have to ask for a link to the liberal doctrine to which you are referring.

Redefining marriage to include homosexual couples does several things all at the same time. But let's get one thing clear here -marriage is NOT a right. It has NEVER been a right in ANY society it is not a right in ours either. Which is why states were given the authority to determine the prerequisites in order to get a license -including a marriage license. It is a state granted PRIVILEGE and ALWAYS has been.

Exactly correct. And in this great country of ours you cannot deny a privilege to a group of people just because you hate them. That's why we had to let black men marry white women.

And the exact same arguments you are using today were used againt interracial marriage.

NOT a "right". Only if you choose someone the state has deemed to be an eligible marriage partner, are you ALLOWED to legally marry. You can't marry someone who is already married, you can't marry more than one person at the same time, you can't demand the state recognize your commune as a "marriage", you can't marry a child even with the consent of that child's parents, you can't marry your own offspring even if they are consenting adults, you can't marry your sibling even if a consenting adult, you can't marry your niece or nephew even if consenting adults, you can't marry an animal and in a few states still you must undergo premarital blood testing before getting married -tested for sickle cell anemia, Tay-Sachs, syphilis and rubella. All diseases that will or have the potential for the horrible impairment or early death of CHILDREN. Because marriage is about producing and raising the next generation -NOT about who you are temporarily coupling with.

TA-DAAAAAAAAA!

Bagged another one!

I told you guys. Right on page one of this topic. That even though I was saying it as plain as day for all to see, someone would still compare gay marriage to pedophilia and bestiality. And this one has thrown in incest!

Marriage evolved over the course of thousands of years to be about how to best raise the next generation to be stable, productive members of society themselves. Marriage is about having and raising CHILDREN.

So again, we must immediately ban childless marraiges.

It is now a proven FACT that redefining marriage to include homosexual couples DOES significantly and negatively affect THE single most stabilizing pillar of society.

Please provide us with the evidence of this fact.

The most significant change with THE most documented and proven ramifications is that it permanently changes people's perceptions about the very purpose of marriage from it being about having and raising children to it being just about who you want to COUPLE with for the moment.

I'm afraid childless heterosexual marriages have beaten gays to that. Sorry. So has Newt Gingrich, come to think of it.

It doesn't matter if YOU personally agree with that or not -it is PROVEN to be true, this is a FACT

Provide the evidence.


This is then followed by an even bigger strawman than the previous one.

 

[Seawytch]

Not all...but many of our laws are the same laws that are in the Bible.
The Koran is NOTHING like the Christian Bible, there's no comparison.
The Bible does have instructions on divorce. God does not condemn ALL divorces. If a man or woman in a marriage commits adultry or "unfaithfulness", that is accepted. some believes this also covers abusive marriages, which would also be considered "unfaithful". Any other reason for a divorce is not condoned...this explains it a little better...

What Does The Bible Say About Divorce?

Such as....?

What's a fair price to pay for a slave. What crops to plant next to one another. What to do with adulterers (I guess we nominate them for President in the GOP!). What kind of cloth to wear. What condiments are acceptable on a pulled pork sandwich. You know, Biblical law.

Don't forget condemnations on praying in public...and that's not even Old Testament stuff.

Funny that only a couple of the ten commandments are actual laws...

 

[g5000]

Two guys take a mutually informed vow to have and to hold each other, through sickness and in health, until death do them part. They will no longer suck anyone else off but each other. They won't pound anyone else in the ass except each other. They are out of circulation.

I defy anyone to explain how that is harmful in any way.

Now, a guy banging his daughter, that is easy to prove harm. Hemophilia, for one.


A grown man coupling with a child. That's an easy one, too. A child cannot give informed consent. It's rape.


Polygamy? Inevitably leads to one man, several women. There is no one woman, several men. Women become subordinates. And the sheer mathematical logic leads to fewer and fewer women available to the men, which ultimately leads to female children being forced to marry and the men become pedophiles.



No. I'm afraid that slippery slope bullshit doesn't fly. The gay marriage issue is actually the same as the interracial issue. There is no harm done by it, except in the fearful fantasies of the fevered bigoted mind.

 

[Seawytch]

Why is it the left is so arrogant as to believe THEY know best and literally BILLIONS of human beings both alive and in the past -do not? I bet you firmly believe in the theory of evolution, right? Are you also arrogant enough to believe YOU know better about how to best design living things that will best insure the survival of their species?

The institution of marriage EVOLVED to what it is as the one institution that best provides one of THE most stabilizing forces of a society. This is where you leftwing extremist nutjobs lose the argument. In spite of the drivel you wrote above, marriage is NOT about COUPLING. Marriage isn't about who you CHOOSE to love -love whoever the hell you want! But let's STOP THE PRETENSE that a same sex partner is the only adult relationship not recognized as a marriage! It is one of MANY adult relationships that are not recognized as a marriage. And believe it or not, the reason for that is ENTIRELY RATIONAL and it hasn't a damn thing to do with discrimination or homophobia.

Marriage evolved to what it is because it is THE repeatedly PROVEN best way of raising and preparing the next generation to be stable, productive members of society ready to take over as the previous generations ages and dies off. PERIOD. That's it. And the next best situation for raising the next generation is so far down the list as to nearly amount to child abuse because it is THAT measurably UNFAVORABLE for producing mentally healthy, productive members of society. There is NO anti-homosexual agenda behind the EVOLUTION of marriage and in fact religious beliefs merely reaffirm that evolution process of THE most stabilizing institution of society.

So it is no wonder it is one under constant attack by the left -especially given the fact their own repeatedly written agenda details their necessity for the destruction of this institution and render it meaningless because doing so will DESTABILIZE society. The left seeks the increased DESTABILIZATION of society -because it is their belief doing so will result in increased social unrest, increased crime rates and increased chaos -leading people to DEMAND that government "do something" about it. In other words, the left sees this is a way of getting people to VOLUNTARILY forfeit their rights and just hand them over to government. The left believes in LARGE, POWERFUL government with massive control over the individual -and everything they do and everything on their agenda is about getting that result. Because they also know American conservatives oppose large, powerful, centralized government -they also know they will be the ones running it.

The push to redefine marriage is about increasing the POWER of the left while deflecting attention from what is really going on by manipulating the way in which the topic is even discussed. They rigidly AVOID talking about the FACT traditional marriage of the biological mother and father is THE single most best proven way of raising the next generation and THE most stabilizing force of society -and pretend it is really all about making Joe and Bob happy and "hey, you have to be a mindless bigot who just hates homosexuals if you don't want Joe and Bob to be HAPPY by having the state call their affair a "marriage". The "useful idiots" will respond by insisting reality itself must be redefined as well and it is no part of the leftwing agenda even though the necessity of destroying marriage BECAUSE it is the most stabilizing force of society has been committed to paper by too many leftwing radicals to even count.

This is ENTIRELY about what is best for our SPECIES and future generations -NOT about what makes Bob and Joe personally happy. Because the left actively seeks the DESTABILIZATION of society because they believe it will give them far more POWER, any discussion about the very real impact redefining marriage has already had in countries with the most experience with it -is either completely ignored and they outright lie and insist it is totally unrelated.

Leftwingers are in reality the most arrogant and self-centered people on the planet, and the ones ignorant enough to believe the left pushes gay marriage because they actually CARE about gays instead of READING THEIR OWN DOCTRINE that specifically says this is entirely about destroying marriage itself BECAUSE doing so will DESTABILIZE society -which the left actively seeks -are nothing but dangerous patsies. Or as the left has repeatedly referred to them "useful idiots". But believe it or not, other people really do care what they leave to their own descendants and undermining THE single most stabilizing pillar of all societies isn't one they wish to inflict on their descendants and thereby increase their misery.

Redefining marriage to include homosexual couples does several things all at the same time. But let's get one thing clear here -marriage is NOT a right. It has NEVER been a right in ANY society it is not a right in ours either. Which is why states were given the authority to determine the prerequisites in order to get a license -including a marriage license. It is a state granted PRIVILEGE and ALWAYS has been. NOT a "right". Only if you choose someone the state has deemed to be an eligible marriage partner, are you ALLOWED to legally marry. You can't marry someone who is already married, you can't marry more than one person at the same time, you can't demand the state recognize your commune as a "marriage", you can't marry a child even with the consent of that child's parents, you can't marry your own offspring even if they are consenting adults, you can't marry your sibling even if a consenting adult, you can't marry your niece or nephew even if consenting adults, you can't marry an animal and in a few states still you must undergo premarital blood testing before getting married -tested for sickle cell anemia, Tay-Sachs, syphilis and rubella. All diseases that will or have the potential for the horrible impairment or early death of CHILDREN. Because marriage is about producing and raising the next generation -NOT about who you are temporarily coupling with.

Marriage evolved over the course of thousands of years to be about how to best raise the next generation to be stable, productive members of society themselves. Marriage is about having and raising CHILDREN. Not about who you want to couple with at the moment. In other words marriage isn't about whether Joe loves Bob and thinks the state should call their affair a "marriage".

It is now a proven FACT that redefining marriage to include homosexual couples DOES significantly and negatively affect THE single most stabilizing pillar of society. The most significant change with THE most documented and proven ramifications is that it permanently changes people's perceptions about the very purpose of marriage from it being about having and raising children to it being just about who you want to COUPLE with for the moment. It doesn't matter if YOU personally agree with that or not -it is PROVEN to be true, this is a FACT -and the people who suffer for that alteration are CHILDREN themselves. All you have to do is check with countries with the longest experience with redefining or undermining the institution and the result is always the same. People stop marrying since it becomes a pretty meaningless word that just means "a couple for now" -but they don't stop having children. Which means they start having children in situations we already know for a FACT is more HARMFUL to them while the most beneficial one is rejected -BECAUSE the very perception of the purpose of marriage was altered by the redefinition. Which the left knows -and actively seeks. Marriage is increasingly seen as a meaningless institution that is just a step above high priced "dating". But the problem is -they do NOT stop having children. They just stop having them in the most beneficial setting for them and choose one that is so INFERIOR as to be proven to be harmful. It is why the left insists the redefinition of marriage hasn't stopped people from marrying -while avoiding the REAL impact they stop marrying for the purpose of having CHILDREN. Which has inflicted MASSIVE and long lasting harm on entire generations. Liberals are the ones who constantly insist the ONLY thing a child needs is "love" -well that is just a flat out LIE! One that has been repeatedly PROVEN to be a lie too many times to count!

This is REALLY about the left insisting the conversation MUST be confined to a false one entirely in order to avoid the REAL discussion about what is actually best for society itself. So they insist the discussion be confined to one about Joe and Bob and insisting those who disagree with them must all be nothing but homophobic bigots. Because they do NOT want to discuss the fact they are in reality insisting the personal happiness of a tiny minority is far more valuable to society than the mental well being of entire future generations who PROVABLY will suffer much higher rates of suicide, drug addiction, violent crimes, promiscuity (which endangers health), anti-social and psychopathic behavior, mental illness and the inability to form good relationships themselves -which will provably exponentially INCREASE again for THEIR children! The left does NOT want any discussion about what is seen to be happening in places like Denmark where they want to pretend the fact children there now have THE highest rates of mental illness among western children is totally unrelated to the fact Denmark also has the longest experience with same sex marriage and in fact these statistics are inversely correlated. In Denmark suicide is the leading cause of death for EIGHT YEAR OLDS. They have THE longest experience with same sex marriage -and they also have THE highest rate of mental illness and suicide in the western hemisphere among their CHILDREN. But let's pretend that is totally unrelated to the fact that their society has come to believe marriage is merely about coupling and not about raising the next generation, right? Which is why the overwhelming majority of first and second children are born out of wedlock and nearly half of third born children are as well! Yet these same children see on average six men come and go out of their mother's life before they reach 16. And we also know for a FACT from repeated studies, that the level of sociopathy in males is directly related to the number of men a boy sees come and go in his mother's life before reaching 16 -and it is directly related to self-destructive behavior in both genders not the least of which is having their own children out of wedlock and inflicting an even worse situation on their own children since the level of severity of poor mental health worsens with each generation. What kind of LIFE is happening that the leading cause of death for even EIGHT YEAR OLDS is SUICIDE?

But to the left, THIS and even far worse for MILLIONS of children is all worth it as long as Joe and Bob get to call their average 8 year long affair a "marriage", during which they will have cheated with an average of 6 different people EACH (which we know for a fact is a destabilizing factor to the marriage) before finally breaking up. But oh sure, let's pretend it's really no different from a heterosexual one that lasts on average long enough to raise a child to adulthood and the number of people the spouses COMBINED on average will cheat with is less than two.

So many fallacies, so little time. Let's start with "marriage is not a right". It most certainly is...at least according to the Supreme Court of the U.S., who have declared it a fundamental right on no less than three occasions.

You also mentioned that some couplings, besides gays and lesbians, are prohibited from marrying. True or false, those couplings are also ILLEGAL. (for example incest and polygamy)

Now let's go on to your rant about marriage being about children. If that were true, we wouldn't allow elderly people to marry, right? We should be requiring fertility tests for couples wishing to marry, right?

Well, we have children too and, as it turns out, our children are at no disadvantage to the children of heterosexuals.

http://www.livescience.com/17913-advantages-gay-parents.html

 

[g5000]

A same sex union is not just as normal as a marriage between a man and a woman.Same sex implies homosexuality, which is not normal, homosexuality is abnormal.
Homosexuals should not be given the same rights as a man and woman child bearing family. The government must move to ban and or criminalize homosexuality.

Why? What harm is done by it?

Left-handedness is also abnormal. Should it be criminalized?

Left handedness is not a choice, homosexuality is a choice to be abnormal.

Evidence?

And why don't you tell us about when you decided not to be gay?

 

[bodecea]

You can't believe this, you really can't.

Clinton was termed out. No one voted for him again because he was prevented from running again! He's never run for another office either. If you believe that "When we, as a nation, found out about that, we never voted for Clinton again" there's no way to address that kind of lack of factual knowledge.

Clinton was termed out for PRESIDENT....and ONLY President. Nothing would have stopped him from running for something else (and yes, it has been done before)...I would not have voted for him.....

So, seems to me you need a civics lesson above and beyond all else.

You are missing the big picture. He never ran for another office. There is no way to tell whether or not he would have been elected despite his sexual excesses. All you can say is that YOU would not have voted for him had he run and had he run someplace where you could have voted for him. To say "we never voted for Clinton again" is meaningless. No one ever got the chance.

If Bill Clinton was able to, and ran against obama, he'd be elected today probably by a landslide in all 57 states.

Would you have voted for Clinton?

 

[g5000]

Would you have voted for Clinton?

I didn't vote for him the first two times. I certainly wouldn't have voted for him a third time.

 

[csbarry]

A same sex union is not just as normal as a marriage between a man and a woman.Same sex implies homosexuality, which is not normal, homosexuality is abnormal.
Homosexuals should not be given the same rights as a man and woman child bearing family. The government must move to ban and or criminalize homosexuality.

Why? What harm is done by it?

Left-handedness is also abnormal. Should it be criminalized?

Left-handedness is not abnormal. There may be fewer left-handers than right-handers, but there is certainly nothing abnormal about that. Pssst, your ignorance is showing.