SB1062, Hobby Lobs...Religious Exemptions Q: Do Corporations have Religious Beliefs?

[dblack]

What is "compelling"about that "interest"?

What is compelling is that more abortions and unwanted children result from unplanned parenthood. The state has to provide more social services for unwanted children

Modern societies recognize the benefits of birth control. It is only religious fanatics who oppose it.

That's ridiculous. A society that practices birth control the way YOUR side practices birth control normally will die. We, as a nation, kill on average 100,000 babies per year. Lot of dreams and expectations that will never be met. The only REAL birth rate at this point is among Blacks and Mexicans.

In other words, idiot, you cracker asses are killing your European asses off. Congratulations. Your ancestors must be SO proud.

This is why social welfare shouldn't be run by government.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Married employees have nightly fun and they use contraception also

I used more contraception after I was married than before

And we thank you! Pa dah dump!

Heh heh... Just kidding.

Just think Hobby Lobby....your married female employees who use your company paid contraception will not go out every year on maternity leave

Think of the money you will save

what is it going to take for you to understand that hobby lobby does not have a problem buying rubbers for you or birth control pills for your old lady. They object to paying for IUDs and an abortion pill. Okay? Got that?

 

[Moonglow]

Hobby Lobby is in their right to deny that part of the coverage....their should be options, options are good....

 

[AvgGuyIA]

I have a question:

Has HL posted a sign in front of their stores saying that if you (the person approaching the entrance) are having sex outside of wedlock and/or if you're using birth control, they just plain and simple don't want your business because, you see, they have values. Actually, they're MORE than just values. They're principles. No, they're more than that too. They're religious convictions. So, just take your business elsewhere!

Nice going Stretch!

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Never before have for-profit corporations been afforded religious exemptions.

NEVER.

Is this ever a can of worms

Can you imagine the precedent it sets?

It certainly does.

Imagine the Supreme Court ruling that the New York Times, as a for profit corporation, is not able to declare that it has freedom of speech and the press. The resulting upheaval would probably destroy the country.

I'm all for taking FOTP clause out of the First. The country will survive because the Press isn't doing the public any favors now.

 

[MarcATL]

Well, if HL loses the case, and if HL relents and provides the insurance anyway, we'll then know that their so-called religious belief wasn't quite a morally inviolable as they claimed it was.

Unfortunately, their doing business w/China, who's known to support abortions, shows that their so-called belief wasn't based on anything but politricks and money anyway.

*sigh*

Does the fact that you, personally, do business with China, even though they persecute Christians for real, prove that you have no moral values, or does it just prove you are blathering about things without thinking?

Enlighten me, Windbag, how am I, personally, am doing business w/China?

 

[RandallFlagg]

Is this ever a can of worms

Can you imagine the precedent it sets?

It certainly does.

Imagine the Supreme Court ruling that the New York Times, as a for profit corporation, is not able to declare that it has freedom of speech and the press. The resulting upheaval would probably destroy the country.

I'm all for taking FOTP clause out of the First. The country will survive because the Press isn't doing the public any favors now.

You are correct. However, rather than amending the document, these things will, at some point, change. While the MSM is serving as the Goebbels arm of the democrat party and acting as propaganda minister for Obama, he will soon be gone.

Public pressure is a bitch and the MSM knows it. Once the King is gone, the kingdom will crumble. Newspapers are all but history. Hell, they can't give newsprint away. ABC, CBS, NBC and MSNBC are irrelevant. CNN is hardly watched any longer. People don't buy their lies and they know it. People want news, they tune into FOX. So, if the others wish to survive, you'll see them change their tunes in the near future or go belly up.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Unfortunately, their doing business w/China, who's known to support abortions, shows that their so-called belief wasn't based on anything but politricks and money anyway.

*sigh*

Does the fact that you, personally, do business with China, even though they persecute Christians for real, prove that you have no moral values, or does it just prove you are blathering about things without thinking?

Enlighten me, Windbag, how am I, personally, am doing business w/China?

Seriously?

Do you own a cell phone? A TV? A computer? Any electronic device? The entire planet is dependent on rare earth elements that come from China.

China's Continuing Monopoly Over Rare Earth Minerals - US News

Facts About Rare Earth Elements (Infographic) | LiveScience

So, once again, does the fact that you, personally, do business with China mean that you support the persecution of China?

 

[The Rabbi]

There IS judicial precedent. Other groups like the Amish and JDs tried religious exemptions from laws...they lost.

That's why all those young Amish men were drafted during Vietnam, right?
Oops.

It is why they have to pay into SS...

United States vs Lee

From your link:

The state may justify a limitation on religious liberty by showing that it is essential to accomplish an overriding governmental interest…

What I've been saying all along. There is no overriding gov't interest here.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with contraception (if that is your choice). However, it is not MY responsibility to pay for it. Why is it so damned hard to understand that simple logic?

It's your responsibility to obey the law. Is that hard to understand?

Horsehockey.

I'm fairly certain that that's what Hitler convinced the German people of. I'm fairly certain that that's what Stalin convinced the Russian people of. I'm fairly certain that that's what Fidel Castro convinced the Cuban people of. I'm fairly certain that that's what Mao Tae Tung convinced the Chinese people of.

Get the point here Sparky? You lemmings follow your idiot Leader off the cliff. I'll spend MY time telling him to kiss my black ass.

I'll bet you pay your taxes.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with contraception (if that is your choice). However, it is not MY responsibility to pay for it. Why is it so damned hard to understand that simple logic?

It's your responsibility to obey the law. Is that hard to understand?

Not according to Martin Luther King and Gandhi.

Then don't pay your taxes. Case closed.

 

[Seawytch]

That's why all those young Amish men were drafted during Vietnam, right?
Oops.

It is why they have to pay into SS...

United States vs Lee

At least you are doing better than Clayton at picking applicable cases. I do have a question though, did you actually read the decision? If not, here it is.

FindLaw | Cases and Codes

Interesting, isn't it? Did you notice it applies to laws passed by Congress, not regulations written by the executive branch?

The ACA was a law passed by Congress.

 

[Freewill]

I am glad vegetarians have to buy me a hamburger.

I am glad atheists will shut up about a manger in the town square.

I wish Michelle Antoinette would mind her own business in what I eat.

If they didn't then I am going to take my business elsewhere.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If Hobby Lobby currently has employees who use birth control, their claim here has no merit.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I am glad vegetarians have to buy me a hamburger.

I am glad atheists will shut up about a manger in the town square.

I wish Michelle Antoinette would mind her own business in what I eat.

If they didn't then I am going to take my business elsewhere.

Any vegetarian who pays taxes buys hamburgers for milliions of Americans, starting with those in the military.

 

[jasonnfree]

Which trend are you talking about? I can show you 200 years of law that says that corporations have religious beliefs. The only trend I see is the attempt to rewrite history by people that have some sort of personal beef against religion. Personally, I think that trend is bad, but I doubt it will destroy America. What will destroy America is the fact that assholes, like you, insist on shoving their religion down other people's throats.

By the way, even the Obama administration has admitted that corporations actually do have religious beliefs. If they didn't he wouldn't have allowed churches to opt out of Obamacare based on those beliefs. I guess that makes you even more wrong that you thought, doesn't it?

That said, it actually doesn't matter if corporations have religious beliefs or not, people do. That is why the government has zero chance of winning the Hobby Lobby case.

Never before have for-profit corporations been afforded religious exemptions.

NEVER.

Are you sure about that?

For profit corporations have the right to free speech, freedom of the press, and the right to petition the government. They also have the protections of the rest of the Bill of Rights, which is why the police cannot simply show up at a corporation and walk off with whatever they want. Can you explain to me, rationally, why the only right they do not have is religion?

For profit corporations were originally formed to serve the public interest QW. Profit was secondary and corporate charters were temporary. A century and a half of corporate lawyers becoming active on courts have turned that around to where now most people really believe that they're actually people, (or even gods to be worshipped, in your case).

 

[dblack]

Never before have for-profit corporations been afforded religious exemptions.

NEVER.

Are you sure about that?

For profit corporations have the right to free speech, freedom of the press, and the right to petition the government. They also have the protections of the rest of the Bill of Rights, which is why the police cannot simply show up at a corporation and walk off with whatever they want. Can you explain to me, rationally, why the only right they do not have is religion?

For profit corporations were originally formed to serve the public interest ...

Mistake #1

 

[paperview]

In effect, if the court rules in favor of the Greens, it would make that horrible bill AZ SB1062 - rejected because of its absurdity (in Arizona) (!) -- become the law of the land.

 

[dblack]

In effect, if the court rules in favor of the Greens, it would make that horrible bill AZ SB1062 - rejected because of its absurdity (in Arizona) (!) -- become the law of the land.

Maybe they'll have a temporary fit of sanity and strike down the mandate for everyone (not just religious orgs). Let's leave the state-mandated birth control policies to China.

 

[paperview]

Are you sure about that?

For profit corporations have the right to free speech, freedom of the press, and the right to petition the government. They also have the protections of the rest of the Bill of Rights, which is why the police cannot simply show up at a corporation and walk off with whatever they want. Can you explain to me, rationally, why the only right they do not have is religion?

For profit corporations were originally formed to serve the public interest ...

Mistake #1

Ahem:

Chief Justice John Marshall:

“A corporation is an artificial being, invisible, intangible, and existing only in contemplation of law. Being the mere creature of law, it possesses only those properties which the charter of its creation confers upon it.” (1819)

Chief Justice Roger Taney:

“A corporation can have no legal existence out of the boundaries of the sovereignty by which it is created. It exists only in contemplation of law and by force of the law. ... It is indeed a mere artificial being.”agreed wholeheartedly in [Bank of Augusta v. Earle 1839]

"These two powerful architects of original Supreme Court authority insisted upon this artificial status in order to hold early American corporations particularly accountable to the state and to the public at large. Most of America’s first corporations—bridge companies, water companies, transportation companies, banks, and insurance companies—were viewed as essentially public service corporations or public franchises.

In addition to grants of property and public financing, the state usually accorded such entities special privileges like monopoly power, the power of eminent domain, or toll-taking authority.

In return for those benefits, the government insisted on the special public obligations of corporations. Not only were corporations not exempted in any way from generally applicable regulatory laws, but they were routinely held to higher standards of public service, public accountability, social responsibility, and public trust."

"Through most of our history, when the Supreme Court did discuss the constitutional rights of corporations, it only reinforced these principles of artificial status and public obligation."
Hobby Lobby and corporate personhood: Here?s the real history of corporate rights in America.