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I guess I am simple-minded. What I have difficulty understanding is why a faith in God would lead one to reject "science", or even just evolution.
What do the Creationists believe accounts for dinosaurs?
Two sides of the same coin, why do the sciencers think that there is no God just because we live in a complicated universe?
That is a Conclusion based on a Theory, based on our ability to measure heat, not lack of it. This Theory is based on what we do know, not on what we don't know. Because something remains a mystery to us we can just as easily presume that because we are limited, in our ability, something does not exist? We acknowledge that we do not have the ability to prove cold exists. Does not cold exist? Our science is limited, our perspective is limited. Does motion cause heat? What would lack of motion at a molecular level cause?
Take away every bit of energy and every speck of matter. What you have left is "nothing". Nothing: The most extreme form of "cold". We do not measure "cold". What we measure is how much or how little heat there is. It's just that simple.
Can your conclusion be proven?
I guess I am simple-minded. What I have difficulty understanding is why a faith in God would lead one to reject "science", or even just evolution.
What do the Creationists believe accounts for dinosaurs?
Two sides of the same coin, why do the sciencers think that there is no God just because we live in a complicated universe?
You don't know what you're talking about
For one thing, there is no such thing as "sciencers". At the very least, try to avoid making up your own words with your own "daffynitions", ok?
And no one believes "there is no God just because we live in a complicated universe" Some people don't believe in God, but your explanation is nothing but bullshit
Guess what: thermodynamics can't explain gravity! Particle physics is refuted!
You'll note that science has its own "God of the gaps" they just call it dark matter.
Dark Matter was questioned in a previous post and and that question was answered.
When I was in the boy scouts, many years ago, we went on a 9 day camp out. The scoutmaster's 7 year old son came along. One morning, we woke up to the sound of that poor child beating a tin pan with a metal spoon in the middle of the camp. Because all the older kids were spending their days earning merit badges, this child felt alone and unwanted. So he was just trying to get a little attention.
You have just been nominated for the "Tin Pan and Metal Spoon" award.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/scien...8-science-is-as-a-religion-8.html#post3129613
I guess I am simple-minded. What I have difficulty understanding is why a faith in God would lead one to reject "science", or even just evolution.
What do the Creationists believe accounts for dinosaurs?
Two sides of the same coin, why do the sciencers think that there is no God just because we live in a complicated universe?
Different "sciencers" believe in different things.
Public Praises Science; Scientists Fault Public, Media: Section 4: Scientists, Politics and Religion - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press
As I told Hick, I've seen people "refute" creationism by pointing to evolution.What the sciencers fail to realize a lot of times is that evolution explains only the differentiation of species. It doesn't explain the origin of life itself.
No, we realize that. It's the evolution-deniers who can't seem to accept that.
So, no, it doesn't look like you all realize that.
That is a Conclusion based on a Theory, based on our ability to measure heat, not lack of it. This Theory is based on what we do know, not on what we don't know. Because something remains a mystery to us we can just as easily presume that because we are limited, in our ability, something does not exist? We acknowledge that we do not have the ability to prove cold exists. Does not cold exist? Our science is limited, our perspective is limited. Does motion cause heat? What would lack of motion at a molecular level cause?
Take away every bit of energy and every speck of matter. What you have left is "nothing". Nothing: The most extreme form of "cold". We do not measure "cold". What we measure is how much or how little heat there is. It's just that simple.
Can your conclusion be proven?
Atheism is a "lack" of belief in mysticism, the supernatural and the occult.
Or perhaps an arrogant denial of our current limitations in collecting and evaluating evidence. Such a small mind, so not conducive to actual discovery.
It takes a "small mind" to study and learn?
But it takes a "big mind with an expanded consciousness" to believe without a shred of evidence?
I have car you might like to buy. It's "Lemon Yellow" and in superb condition.
Odd, then, that I've seen people "refute" creationism by pointing to evolution.And I don't use that word lightly ever. No, no "sciencer" fails to realize that evolution only explains differences between and within species. That's because THAT'S ALL EVOLUTION DOES. It has nothing to do with the origin of life itself. Seems to me that "religioners" fail to realize that. Similarly, learning how to drive a car has nothing to do with learning how to manufacture a car from scratch. They are two completely separate concepts in the same field.
Once again, you have demonstrated a stunning stupidity
Evolution refutes creationism because creationism says that humans were created by God "as is" and did not evolve. Evolution contradicts Creationism. Evolution doesn't need to explain the origin of life itself in order to refute Creationism
But you are so dumb, you're still hung up on the idea that evolution does or should explain the origins of life itself. No matter how many times you are educated on this, you will continue to insist that the origins of life itself has something to do with evolution. You can't drop this idea because you are too dumb to realize how dumb you are. Here's a study that explains the phenomena of stupid people who are certain they are not stupid
Confident dumb people - Boing Boing
You'll note that science has its own "God of the gaps" they just call it dark matter.
Dark Matter was questioned in a previous post and and that question was answered.
Quite poorly, too.
"We don't know what it is but we can see its effects."
Um, the same can be said about Faith.
I guess I am simple-minded. What I have difficulty understanding is why a faith in God would lead one to reject "science", or even just evolution.
What do the Creationists believe accounts for dinosaurs?
Two sides of the same coin, why do the sciencers think that there is no God just because we live in a complicated universe?
Different "sciencers" believe in different things.
Public Praises Science; Scientists Fault Public, Media: Section 4: Scientists, Politics and Religion - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press
Odd, then, that I've seen people "refute" creationism by pointing to evolution.
Once again, you have demonstrated a stunning stupidity
Evolution refutes creationism because creationism says that humans were created by God "as is" and did not evolve. Evolution contradicts Creationism. Evolution doesn't need to explain the origin of life itself in order to refute Creationism
But you are so dumb, you're still hung up on the idea that evolution does or should explain the origins of life itself. No matter how many times you are educated on this, you will continue to insist that the origins of life itself has something to do with evolution. You can't drop this idea because you are too dumb to realize how dumb you are. Here's a study that explains the phenomena of stupid people who are certain they are not stupid
Confident dumb people - Boing Boing
Does it?
Two sides of the same coin, why do the sciencers think that there is no God just because we live in a complicated universe?
Different "sciencers" believe in different things.
Public Praises Science; Scientists Fault Public, Media: Section 4: Scientists, Politics and Religion - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press
I'm well aware of the disparate focuses on science and religion, as well as how some on either side pursue their chosen path exclusively. That doesn't make either side correct.
That said, your own lack of collecting and analyzing evidence (like your belief in the conclusion of this poll without any actual study on your part) says a lot about you. You have faith in something even you don't understand. How funny is that?
You misunderstand. I don't care what your motives are. Honestly, I don't even know what they are because I didn't read that copied and pasted text. No one did. The point I'm trying to make is that you should take it upon yourself to state arguments in your own words. Copying and pasting is an ineffective form of communication here as no one reads it. Ever. Doesn't matter whether you're arguing for or against the same things as me. Using your own words will make your arguments stronger.I think it best if you focus on your own argument, and not worry yourself with me or what you think my motives are.
I'm fairly certain we have the ability to prove cold exists. We can qualify, quantify, and alter temperature. We know how it works, and that it works, and we use that information in practical ways. You may want to rethink that.We acknowledge that we do not have the ability to prove cold exists. Does not cold exist?
Unfortunately for you, we live in a civilized world where things like facts and justice prevail. Your teenage physical impulsive nature is amusing to me, especially on the internet. Maybe it will be an effective problem solving tool for you one day, but until then I recommend you attempt to best me with factual information.José;3129752 said:I'd like to have 10 minutes alone with SmarterThanHick and sangha.
I promise the whole Board I wouldn't kill them, just mutilate them due to their stupidity
Which you continue to fail to realize is not an actual scientific theory or accepted by the scientific community. It is an unsupported concept. It is not proven to exist whatsoever, and it has nothing to do with why you were originally wrong. In short: it's not real. I don't quite think you've realized or accepted that fact. It was a nice distraction in your failed attempt to backpedal, but you're still wrong.José;3129772 said:The theory of evolution says nothing about abiogenesis (how matter became life) as Hick and sangha correctly stated.
BUT THE LACK OF A SOLID ABIOGENESIS THEORY IS A MAJOR GAP IN THE EVOLUTIONARY SCIENTIFIC PARADIGM!!!!
Did you even bother reading the wikipedia article you cited? Did you overlook that it doesn't meet basic standards and even reiterates what I just said? You proved yourself wrong. Hilarious.
You misunderstand. I don't care what your motives are. Honestly, I don't even know what they are because I didn't read that copied and pasted text. No one did. The point I'm trying to make is that you should take it upon yourself to state arguments in your own words. Copying and pasting is an ineffective form of communication here as no one reads it. Ever. Doesn't matter whether you're arguing for or against the same things as me. Using your own words will make your arguments stronger.
I'm fairly certain we have the ability to prove cold exists. We can qualify, quantify, and alter temperature. We know how it works, and that it works, and we use that information in practical ways. You may want to rethink that.
Religion is "magical" in nature. Science is not. They are mutually "exclusive". It's just that simple.
Explain dark matter and dark energy. We can't find it, can't see it, can't prove it exists, yet it is the only thing that holds the universe together. I don't know what your definition of magical is, but that sounds a lot like magic to me.
We know when something exists when we can "measure" it. Only a very tiny percentage of the energy spectrum is made of "visible" light, yet we know it exists.
The same with Dark Matter. We know it exists because it creates a peculiar "lensing" effect. The same effect that large planets create with their gravitational fields which "bend" light.
Scientists "live" for questions. They admit they only possess a tiny bit of knowledge, but that knowledge is growing every day. The religious want to "block" that knowledge growth, except for weapons. They believe bigger and better "weapons" will "keep us safe".
Mapping Dark Matter with a Cosmic Lens : Discovery News
And how effective was it at that goal. I think I'm the only one who responded to it, and that was to say I didn't read it. Again, I think you should rethink your tactic, because I know you have the ability to make stronger points, and that didn't accomplish it.We are in disagreement here. I read Every Post I find interest in including Quotes and Links. I'm sure that I am not alone in that. Feel free to utilize your own style, it is wrong however to have expectations on anyone else. As for my intent, it was to put the Thread back on track. Nothing more and nothing less.
We can measure cold though. I don't quite understand your point.This is a carry over from another Thread involving JB. I too would believe that just because we cannot measurer cold, it would more suggest that it is more related to limited ability and perspective, than cold not existing. The message is about us getting caught up in absolutes, rather than accepting our limited knowledge.
Explain dark matter and dark energy. We can't find it, can't see it, can't prove it exists, yet it is the only thing that holds the universe together. I don't know what your definition of magical is, but that sounds a lot like magic to me.
We know when something exists when we can "measure" it. Only a very tiny percentage of the energy spectrum is made of "visible" light, yet we know it exists.
The same with Dark Matter. We know it exists because it creates a peculiar "lensing" effect. The same effect that large planets create with their gravitational fields which "bend" light.
Scientists "live" for questions. They admit they only possess a tiny bit of knowledge, but that knowledge is growing every day. The religious want to "block" that knowledge growth, except for weapons. They believe bigger and better "weapons" will "keep us safe".
Mapping Dark Matter with a Cosmic Lens : Discovery News
You just proved you know less about science than even I gave you credit for, which is not very much.
Scientists do not know that either dark energy, which is not electromagnetic energy we cannot see, or dark matter exists. They believe dark energy exists because the universe is expanding faster than it should be given the vast amount of energy, both visible and invisible, that we can detect. They believe dark matter exists because the mass of the universe is more than the mass of all the possible galaxies.
Notice the words I used here. Scientists believe, they do not know. If we take your rather limited knowledge of science and your insistence that science and belief, faith, are completely incompatible, we are left with the demonstrated fact that we cannot explain the universe. The only way to explain the universe is hypothesize, or SWAG (scientific wild assed guess).
Explain to me again how that does not fit your definition of magical.
STAH didn't say anything about your motives. You're lying about what STAH to hide your inability to post an idea using your own words. If you had a brain, you'd make your point using your own words instead of letting someone else do your thinking for you
Sangha, Your bullshit and name calling is thread killing. The reason I posted the Link was to bring the thread back on track. It is of the foundation of Evolution Theory, unadulterated with your bullshit. I am giving you fair warning about you assumptions, with everyone you come in contact with. Knock it off. You want to add to a discussion learn to do it with courtesy, and stop repeating yourself 50 times over. Stop the Bitching, and contribute to the advancement of the conversation. Stop derailing threads with your bullshit. It is ugly, and not as popular as you imagine it to be.
Once again for the intense moron:
STAH said nothing about your intent. He merely pointed out that NO ONE WILL READ the info you posted. *I* was the one who mentioned you intent
You use cut and paste because you are unable to express ideas in your own words. You do not have the brain power to do so. You constantly make this obvious with your fuzzy and meaningless pronouncements of profound obscurity like "That is a conclusion based on a theory" and your latest "It is of the foundation of Evolution Theory"
That isn't even grammatically correct, nevermind scientifically accurate.
Why is it exactly is it that you need to put people down? What good does it serve? Do you honestly think that it elevates you or your position?Once again for the intense moron:
What concern is it of yours? Further, You did not know my intent, and were not qualified to speak on it. You make many assumptions, mostly wrong.STAH said nothing about your intent. He merely pointed out that NO ONE WILL READ the info you posted. *I* was the one who mentioned you intent
You use cut and paste because you are unable to express ideas in your own words. You do not have the brain power to do so. You constantly make this obvious with your fuzzy and meaningless pronouncements of profound obscurity like "That is a conclusion based on a theory" and your latest "It is of the foundation of Evolution Theory"
And how effective was it at that goal. I think I'm the only one who responded to it, and that was to say I didn't read it. Again, I think you should rethink your tactic, because I know you have the ability to make stronger points, and that didn't accomplish it.We are in disagreement here. I read Every Post I find interest in including Quotes and Links. I'm sure that I am not alone in that. Feel free to utilize your own style, it is wrong however to have expectations on anyone else. As for my intent, it was to put the Thread back on track. Nothing more and nothing less.
We can measure cold though. I don't quite understand your point.This is a carry over from another Thread involving JB. I too would believe that just because we cannot measurer cold, it would more suggest that it is more related to limited ability and perspective, than cold not existing. The message is about us getting caught up in absolutes, rather than accepting our limited knowledge.
Religion is "magical" in nature. Science is not. They are mutually "exclusive". It's just that simple.
Explain dark matter and dark energy. We can't find it, can't see it, can't prove it exists, yet it is the only thing that holds the universe together. I don't know what your definition of magical is, but that sounds a lot like magic to me.
Those phrases are shorthand for observational facts. "Dark matter," at its base, refers to virial theorem violations and unexpected galactic rotation curves; "dark energy" is systematic redshift-apparent brightness anomaly in standard candles (since corroborated through other observational means). These are facts, not magic. Now, fitting them into existing models and extrapolating from there may be considered some weak form of faith, but then there are folks looking to construct new models from these observational facts instead of reconciling them with the frameworks that already exist. Eventually someone is going to be vindicated empirically. Such is science.
