Second Amendment advocates would this change your mind?

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

To oppose perfectly Constitutional firearm regulatory measures is not to ‘advocate’ for the Second Amendment – which is why the term is idiocy.

To advocate for the Second Amendment is to support Second Amendment jurisprudence, to acknowledge the fact that the Amendment is not ‘absolute,’ and to acknowledge the fact that government has the authority to place limits and restrictions on the Second Amendment right consistent with that jurisprudence.

Indeed, conservatives’ hostility toward Second Amendment jurisprudence renders them opponents of the Second Amendment, not ‘advocates.’

The 2nd Amendment says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". If you really know what "jurisprudence" means, then you have to support it as it's written.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

It will NEVER be enough to satisfy those who fear guns as well as those who FEAR legally owned guns in American hands. THAT is the last line. Cross it and the party gets started.

Shouldn't we fear guns in American hands?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Spoken by someone who has clearly never been in a firefight. All of that paper target practice accuracy tends to go out the window when the situation gets real and you have live rounds coming back at you. Unless of course you're a cold-blooded assassin, in which case you're probably not following the laws anyways.

I think in many ways this might be the problem in a nutshell. 99% of us regular civilians living our grey flannel lives will never be in a firefight. We are far more likely to be gunned down at church or at the grocery store or at work or the theater.

I'm not entirely certain what good high capacity magazines would do but if that is how we have to go to the grocery store now maybe that's part of the problem.

 

[Open Bolt]

Shouldn't we fear guns in American hands?

No. But you should stay out of high crime areas.

You should do that even if we didn't have a lot of guns. A criminal with a knife is just as bad as a criminal with a gun.

 

[badbob85037]

In an opinion piece found in the news and observer, this nut believes his words could bring us to a compromise.
As for me I might pay him a visit and show him how wrong he is.

https://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/article259852460.html

Anyone talking any type of gun control needs shot. Send him over and I'LL SHOW HIM SOME GUN CONTROL FROM 3 FEET ALL THE WAY OUT TO 1,000 YARDS

 

[daveman]

The 2nd Amendment says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". If you really know what "jurisprudence" means, then you have to support it as it's written.

According to irrational gun-haters, "shall not be infringed" means "infringed the fuck out of".

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

No. But you should stay out of high crime areas.

Like the theater?

You should do that even if we didn't have a lot of guns. A criminal with a knife is just as bad as a criminal with a gun.

Uh huh. Is that why you ignored the data?

 

[Osiris-ODS]

I think in many ways this might be the problem in a nutshell. 99% of us regular civilians living our grey flannel lives will never be in a firefight. We are far more likely to be gunned down at church or at the grocery store or at work or the theater.

I'm not entirely certain what good high capacity magazines would do but if that is how we have to go to the grocery store now maybe that's part of the problem.

Then maybe the left should start keeping violent criminals in prison instead of letting them out on light sentences to recommit violent crime with illegal firearms. What do you think about that?

 

[Open Bolt]

Like the theater?

High crime areas are more broad than specific buildings. They include entire neighborhoods if not entire cities.

Uh huh. Is that why you ignored the data?

Yes. I don't see why higher amounts of gun crime really matter. Crime is just as bad regardless of whether a gun is involved.

"Robbed at gunpoint" versus "robbed at knifepoint" isn't much of a difference in my view.

 

[daveman]

High crime areas are more broad than specific buildings. They include entire neighborhoods if not entire cities.



Yes. I don't see why higher amounts of gun crime really matter. Crime is just as bad regardless of whether a gun is involved.

"Robbed at gunpoint" versus "robbed at knifepoint" isn't much of a difference in my view.

You don't understand, Open Bolt. People killed with guns are way more deader than people killed with other weapons.

Right, PV System?

 

[Osiris-ODS]

Shouldn't we fear guns in American hands?

This statistic is misleading bullshit because it includes suicides, which accounts for the higher rate of firearm deaths in the US compared to other countries. Banning guns isn't going to stop suicides, people will just commit suicide by a different means. A better thing would be to end the non-stop foreign wars that have caused a mental health crisis among veterans the likes of which the world has never seen, and take care of our veterans once they do come home rather then let them become homeless while we welcome in immigrants from all around the world so we can turn red areas blue.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Then maybe the left should start keeping violent criminals in prison instead of letting them out on light sentences to recommit violent crime with illegal firearms. What do you think about that?

Mandatory sentencing guidelines have been in place for quite a while now, 3 strikes laws, etc. The ultimate goal of getting almost all black males into prison is on track in America.

Yet for some reason we still have weekly mass shootings and our gun homicide rate is still world-leading for developed nations.

America has the highest per capita prison rate of any developed nation on earth.

It's almost as if this drive to put people in prison isn't working to slow our gun homicide rate!

I guess we've tried literally everything.

 

[Flash]

He says:



I stopped reading there. No, it wouldn't. This guy needs to stick to psychology, because he sucks at being knowledgeable about firearms.

The stupid sonofabitch doesn't understand how few "assault rifles" are actually used in shootings.

The gun crime reality in this country is mostly minority street thugs killing one another with cheap handguns. No new additional law will change that.

 

[Flash]

What part of "shall not be abridged" don't you understand?

He is Canadian. He doesn't understand any of it.

 

[Flash]

Mandatory sentencing guidelines have been in place for quite a while now, 3 strikes laws, etc. The ultimate goal of getting almost all black males into prison is on track in America.

Yet for some reason we still have weekly mass shootings and our gun homicide rate is still world-leading for developed nations.

America has the highest per capita prison rate of any developed nation on earth.

It's almost as if this drive to put people in prison isn't working to slow our gun homicide rate!

I guess we've tried literally everything.

Well, we could do like the Liberals want and let the thugs out of prison. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[bripat9643]

He is Canadian. He doesn't understand any of it.

They don't understand freedom of speech either. Trudeau is practically a dictator.

 

[2aguy]

Shouldn't we fear guns in American hands?

Our gun murder is confined to tiny neighborhoods in democrat party controlled cities…..the majority, the vast majority of the victims are criminals, not normal citizens. Of the rest, the majority of those victims are the friends and family of criminals…….

Meanwhile, according to the Centers for Disease Control Americans use their legal guns 1.1 times a year to stop rapes, roberries, murders, beatings and stabbings…..what do you say to those people?

Also…..our problem isn’t guns…..our problem is the democrat party…..their judges, prosecutors and politicians keep releasing the most violent gun offenders, over and over again no matter how often they are arrested for gun and other felonies…what do you say to that?

And those other countries in that chart? Europe took guns away from their citizens in the 1920s and the 1930s, then in they murdered 15 million men, women and children.

Those 15 million murdered, are more than all of those killed by criminals with guns in the U.S. for the last 80 years…..

So they murdered more people in 6 years than all of our criminals murdered with guns in 80 years…

what do say about that fact?

 

[2aguy]

I think in many ways this might be the problem in a nutshell. 99% of us regular civilians living our grey flannel lives will never be in a firefight. We are far more likely to be gunned down at church or at the grocery store or at work or the theater.

I'm not entirely certain what good high capacity magazines would do but if that is how we have to go to the grocery store now maybe that's part of the problem.

No you are not more likely to be gunned down in any of those places… In 2021 we had 6 mass public shootings. 6 people out of over 330 million people.


They murdered a total of 43 people…..out of 330 million people.

To put that in perspective:…

deer kill 200 people a year
Ladders kill 300 people a year
Knives kill 1,500 people a year
Lawn mowers kill 90-100 people a year

So you don’t really know what you are saying

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Our gun murder is confined to tiny neighborhoods in democrat party controlled cities…..

That's an interesting claim. I'd love to see your numbers on that because, remember what you have to prove is that the "tiny neighborhoods" have so much gun homicide that the values AVERAGED OVER THE ENTIRE US POPULATION (which is what the "per capita" means) STILL PUT US ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE HIGHER THAN ANY OTHER DEVELOPED NATION ON EARTH.

That's a pretty tall order mathematically speaking. I'd be interested to see your work.

the majority, the vast majority of the victims are criminals, not normal citizens. Of the rest, the majority of those vintimate are the friends and family of criminals…….

Studies show that simply keeping a gun in the house increases the likelihood of the death of someone in that house (family) from the gun. Is that also limited to only "bad people neighborhoods"?

Meanwhile, according to the Centers for Disease Control Americans use their legal guns 1.1 times a year to stop rapes, roberries, murders, beatings and stabbings…..what do you say to those people?

I would love to see that citation. But the way you phrased it doesn't make any sense. Americans use their legal guns once a year to stop rapes, crimes, beatings, etc. That means that 200+ million people a year pull a gun out to stop a bad guy. That's pretty astounding for a claim. Doesn't sound like reality so I assume you simply didn't phrase it correctly.

Also…..our problem isn’t guns…..our problem is the democrat party…..their judges, prosecutors and politicians keep releasing the most violent gun offenders, over and over again no matter how often they are arrested for gun and other felonies…what do you say to that?

America has the highest prison population per capita of any developed nation on earth. The difference appears to be "gun ownership rate". Unless you think that Norwegians are somehow a different species of human.

And those other countries in that chart? Europe took guns away from their citizens in the 1920s and the 1930s, then in they murdered 15 million men, women and children.

That's simply incorrect. Many of them actually still have a strong gun culture...they just don't have as many guns and they have a few more limitations on gun ownership.

what do say about that fact?

I'd say you made a lot of dubious, oversimplified and outright incorrect claims without once actually supporting them. So...kudos?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

No you are not more likely to be gunned down in any of those places… In 2021 we had 6 mass public shootings. 6 people out of over 330 million people.

Hmm, interesting. 6 you say. Did any of the other 693 reported mass shootings count?

6........693, really, who's counting?

They murdered a total of 43 people…..out of 330 million people.

43....703....it's all just numbers isn't it?

So you don’t really know what you are saying

Apparently neither do you. Only difference is I have a way to support my claim.