Secular families are ethical families

[Czernobog]

Well, well. It looks like religion really isn't necessary to raise ethical children. According to an article for the LA Times, Vern L Bengtson, a professor at USC who has been doing a generational longitudinal study of families, has added secular families to his studies in recent years, when he discovered that non-religious demographics were growing. His findings are quite enlightening:

Many non-religious parents were more coherent and passionate about their ethical principles than some of the ‘religious’ parents in our study. The vast majority appeared to live goal-filled lives characterised by moral direction and sense of life having a purpose.

...non-religious family life is replete with its own sustaining moral values and enriching ethical precepts. Chief among those: rational problem solving, personal autonomy, independence of thought, avoidance of corporal punishment, a spirit of ‘questioning everything’ and, far above all, empathy.

For secular people, morality is predicated on one simple principle: empathetic reciprocity, widely known as the Golden Rule. Treating other people as you would like to be treated. It is an ancient, universal ethical imperative. And it requires no supernatural beliefs.

The results of such secular child-rearing are encouraging. Studies have found that secular teenagers are far less likely to care what the ‘cool kids’ think, or express a need to fit in with them, than their religious peers. When these teens mature into ‘godless’ adults, they exhibit less racism than their religious counterparts, according to a 2010 Duke University study. Many psychological studies show that secular grownups tend to be less vengeful, less nationalistic, less militaristic, less authoritarian and more tolerant, on average, than religious adults.​

So, it seems that we finally have actual data to dispel the myth that religion is necessary in order to instill ethical moral decision-making skills.

 

[TNHarley]

The "golden rule" was first adapted by extremely religious folk reflecting a god.. little irony for ya

 

[TNHarley]

BTW, I take this study with a grain of salt. It senses to generalize millions of individuals.
I have been agnostic since I was in middle school. I am as nationalistic as they come.
I also don't agree they are more tolerant and less racist.
I might have the outlook in the OP if I knew the same people from this study.........

 

[Czernobog]

Well, S.J. thinks it's funny that theistic religion is not necessary for morality.

The "golden rule" was first adapted by extremely religious folk reflecting a god.. little irony for ya

Actually, it's not. It has actually been traced back to both Taoism, and Confucianism, which both -predate the theistic versions that most people are familiar with. How's that for irony? Theism never was needed for the Golden Rule; theists just liked it so mu8ch they had to steal it, and pretend they came up with it.

 

[Czernobog]

BTW, I take this study with a grain of salt. It senses to generalize millions of individuals.
I have been agnostic since I was in middle school. I am as nationalistic as they come.
I also don't agree they are more tolerant and less racist.
I might have the outlook in the OP if I knew the same people from this study.........

Yeah, that's the beauty of having statistical studies. Now we have empirical data to refute anecdotal evidence such as this. No one is suggesting that no one who is secular is nationalistic. Just because you are, does not mean that you represent the statistical norm.

 

[TNHarley]

Well, S.J. thinks it's funny that theistic religion is not necessary for morality.

The "golden rule" was first adapted by extremely religious folk reflecting a god.. little irony for ya

Actually, it's not. It has actually been traced back to both Taoism, and Confucianism, which both -predate the theistic versions that most people are familiar with. How's that for irony? Theism never was needed for the Golden Rule; theists just liked it so mu8ch they had to steal it, and pretend they came up with it.

There could be a huge debate about Taoism being a religion or not....
The first known writings about "golden rule" or similar intent was established by the Egyptians for the god maat.
Taosim possibly did believe in that prior to 2500BC but there isn't proof of it. At least that I have seen.

 

[TNHarley]

BTW, I take this study with a grain of salt. It senses to generalize millions of individuals.
I have been agnostic since I was in middle school. I am as nationalistic as they come.
I also don't agree they are more tolerant and less racist.
I might have the outlook in the OP if I knew the same people from this study.........

Yeah, that's the beauty of having statistical studies. Now we have empirical data to refute anecdotal evidence such as this. No one is suggesting that no one who is secular is nationalistic. Just because you are, does not mean that you represent the statistical norm.

Interviewing a very limited # of people over a span of years doesn't either..

 

[TNHarley]

seems wiki agrees with me
Golden Rule - Wikipedia
However Maat was a goddess, not a god..

 

[bodecea]

The "golden rule" was first adapted by extremely religious folk reflecting a god.. little irony for ya

Not true....the "golden rule" was around long before the organized religions you see today.

 

[Czernobog]

Well, S.J. thinks it's funny that theistic religion is not necessary for morality.

The "golden rule" was first adapted by extremely religious folk reflecting a god.. little irony for ya

Actually, it's not. It has actually been traced back to both Taoism, and Confucianism, which both -predate the theistic versions that most people are familiar with. How's that for irony? Theism never was needed for the Golden Rule; theists just liked it so mu8ch they had to steal it, and pretend they came up with it.

There could be a huge debate about Taoism being a religion or not....
The first known writings about "golden rule" or similar intent was established by the Egyptians for the god maat.
Taosim possibly did believe in that prior to 2500BC but there isn't proof of it. At least that I have seen.

True, however, because there is also no evidence of any commerce between ancient China, and ancient Egypt, it is more likely that the two societies - one theistic, and one not - happened upon the same principle independently. It's not as if we have not discovered evidence of that happening in other instances , as well. We have even found evidence of ancient technologies being independently discovered by different societies, and cultures. This is simply more evidence that theism is not necessary to develop ethical behaviour.

 

[TNHarley]

The "golden rule" was first adapted by extremely religious folk reflecting a god.. little irony for ya

Not true....the "golden rule" was around long before the organized religions you see today.

No shit. That doesn't refute my post at all.

 

[TNHarley]

Well, S.J. thinks it's funny that theistic religion is not necessary for morality.

The "golden rule" was first adapted by extremely religious folk reflecting a god.. little irony for ya

Actually, it's not. It has actually been traced back to both Taoism, and Confucianism, which both -predate the theistic versions that most people are familiar with. How's that for irony? Theism never was needed for the Golden Rule; theists just liked it so mu8ch they had to steal it, and pretend they came up with it.

There could be a huge debate about Taoism being a religion or not....
The first known writings about "golden rule" or similar intent was established by the Egyptians for the god maat.
Taosim possibly did believe in that prior to 2500BC but there isn't proof of it. At least that I have seen.

True, however, because there is also no evidence of any commerce between ancient China, and ancient Egypt, it is more likely that the two societies - one theistic, and one not - happened upon the same principle independently. More evidence that theism is not necessary to develop ethical behaviour.

Actually, Ancient Chinese peoples talked about a river that flowed north.. Im sure they weren't talking about Siberia or west Virginia lol
Ill see if I can find the work.

 

[Czernobog]

Well, S.J. thinks it's funny that theistic religion is not necessary for morality.

The "golden rule" was first adapted by extremely religious folk reflecting a god.. little irony for ya

Actually, it's not. It has actually been traced back to both Taoism, and Confucianism, which both -predate the theistic versions that most people are familiar with. How's that for irony? Theism never was needed for the Golden Rule; theists just liked it so mu8ch they had to steal it, and pretend they came up with it.

There could be a huge debate about Taoism being a religion or not....
The first known writings about "golden rule" or similar intent was established by the Egyptians for the god maat.
Taosim possibly did believe in that prior to 2500BC but there isn't proof of it. At least that I have seen.

True, however, because there is also no evidence of any commerce between ancient China, and ancient Egypt, it is more likely that the two societies - one theistic, and one not - happened upon the same principle independently. More evidence that theism is not necessary to develop ethical behaviour.

Actually, Ancient Chinese peoples talked about a river that flowed north.. Im sure they weren't talking about Siberia or west Virginia lol
Ill see if I can find the work.

I dunno. Here are the foreign contacts with the Kingdoms of Egypt. Unless you see something I don't...

 

[Weatherman2020]

Fact remains most of the prison population in America is made up of secularists. OP is wrong.

 

[TNHarley]

Well, S.J. thinks it's funny that theistic religion is not necessary for morality.

The "golden rule" was first adapted by extremely religious folk reflecting a god.. little irony for ya

Actually, it's not. It has actually been traced back to both Taoism, and Confucianism, which both -predate the theistic versions that most people are familiar with. How's that for irony? Theism never was needed for the Golden Rule; theists just liked it so mu8ch they had to steal it, and pretend they came up with it.

There could be a huge debate about Taoism being a religion or not....
The first known writings about "golden rule" or similar intent was established by the Egyptians for the god maat.
Taosim possibly did believe in that prior to 2500BC but there isn't proof of it. At least that I have seen.

True, however, because there is also no evidence of any commerce between ancient China, and ancient Egypt, it is more likely that the two societies - one theistic, and one not - happened upon the same principle independently. More evidence that theism is not necessary to develop ethical behaviour.

Actually, Ancient Chinese peoples talked about a river that flowed north.. Im sure they weren't talking about Siberia or west Virginia lol
Ill see if I can find the work.

I dunno. Here are the foreign contacts with the Kingdoms of Egypt. Unless you see something I don't...

Does Chinese Civilization Come From Ancient Egypt?
lecture to an audience of laymen, students, and professors at the University of Science and Technology in Hefei, the capital city of the landlocked province of Anhui in eastern China. But the professor didn’t just talk about geochemistry. He also cited several ancient Chinese classics, at one point quoting historian Sima Qian’s description of the topography of the Xia empire — traditionally regarded as China’s founding dynasty, dating from 2070 to 1600 B.C. “Northwards the stream is divided and becomes the nine rivers,” wrote Sima Qian in his first century historiography, the Records of the Grand Historian. “Reunited, it forms the opposing river and flows into the sea.”
In other words, “the stream” in question wasn’t China’s famed Yellow River, which flows from west to east. “There is only one major river in the world which flows northwards. Which one is it?” the professor asked. “The Nile,” someone replied. Sun then showed a map of the famed Egyptian river and its delta — with nine of its distributaries flowing into the Mediterranean. This author, a researcher at the same institute, watched as audience members broke into smiles and murmurs, intrigued that these ancient Chinese texts seemed to better agree with the geography of Egypt than that of China.

 

[Czernobog]

Fact remains most of the prison population in America is made up of secularists. OP is wrong.

Can you provide statistical data to support that claim?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Fact remains most of the prison population in America is made up of secularists. OP is wrong.

Can you provide statistical data to support that claim?

Pick 25 people on death row. 25 of them will not have stepped into a church at least a year before their crime.

Secularists are also the least charitable. They are the least group willing to help those in need. And yes, there are studies on that too.

 

[Czernobog]

Well, S.J. thinks it's funny that theistic religion is not necessary for morality.
Actually, it's not. It has actually been traced back to both Taoism, and Confucianism, which both -predate the theistic versions that most people are familiar with. How's that for irony? Theism never was needed for the Golden Rule; theists just liked it so mu8ch they had to steal it, and pretend they came up with it.

There could be a huge debate about Taoism being a religion or not....
The first known writings about "golden rule" or similar intent was established by the Egyptians for the god maat.
Taosim possibly did believe in that prior to 2500BC but there isn't proof of it. At least that I have seen.

True, however, because there is also no evidence of any commerce between ancient China, and ancient Egypt, it is more likely that the two societies - one theistic, and one not - happened upon the same principle independently. More evidence that theism is not necessary to develop ethical behaviour.

Actually, Ancient Chinese peoples talked about a river that flowed north.. Im sure they weren't talking about Siberia or west Virginia lol
Ill see if I can find the work.

I dunno. Here are the foreign contacts with the Kingdoms of Egypt. Unless you see something I don't...

Does Chinese Civilization Come From Ancient Egypt?
lecture to an audience of laymen, students, and professors at the University of Science and Technology in Hefei, the capital city of the landlocked province of Anhui in eastern China. But the professor didn’t just talk about geochemistry. He also cited several ancient Chinese classics, at one point quoting historian Sima Qian’s description of the topography of the Xia empire — traditionally regarded as China’s founding dynasty, dating from 2070 to 1600 B.C. “Northwards the stream is divided and becomes the nine rivers,” wrote Sima Qian in his first century historiography, the Records of the Grand Historian. “Reunited, it forms the opposing river and flows into the sea.”
In other words, “the stream” in question wasn’t China’s famed Yellow River, which flows from west to east. “There is only one major river in the world which flows northwards. Which one is it?” the professor asked. “The Nile,” someone replied. Sun then showed a map of the famed Egyptian river and its delta — with nine of its distributaries flowing into the Mediterranean. This author, a researcher at the same institute, watched as audience members broke into smiles and murmurs, intrigued that these ancient Chinese texts seemed to better agree with the geography of Egypt than that of China.

Sooo...one obscure reference of a single text of Xia Dynasty, whose very existence as a Chinese Dynasty is even contested, is the evidence of a connection between China and Egypt? Yeah... I'm gonna go with independent formation. It's the more likely explanation.

 

[Czernobog]

Fact remains most of the prison population in America is made up of secularists. OP is wrong.

Can you provide statistical data to support that claim?

Pick 25 people on death row. 25 of them will not have stepped into a church at least a year before their crime.

Secularists are also the least charitable. They are the least group willing to help those in need. And yes, there are studies on that too.

Restating your claim without statistical data, does not make it any more true than the first time you made it without any supporting statistical data. But, since you couldn't seem to find any data, I did find some that proves that you're full of shit:

See? That's the danger of making definitive statements like that about things that there have actually been studies done to produce actual, verifiable data about.

 

[Indeependent]

Well, well. It looks like religion really isn't necessary to raise ethical children. According to an article for the LA Times, Vern L Bengtson, a professor at USC who has been doing a generational longitudinal study of families, has added secular families to his studies in recent years, when he discovered that non-religious demographics were growing. His findings are quite enlightening:

Many non-religious parents were more coherent and passionate about their ethical principles than some of the ‘religious’ parents in our study. The vast majority appeared to live goal-filled lives characterised by moral direction and sense of life having a purpose.

...non-religious family life is replete with its own sustaining moral values and enriching ethical precepts. Chief among those: rational problem solving, personal autonomy, independence of thought, avoidance of corporal punishment, a spirit of ‘questioning everything’ and, far above all, empathy.

For secular people, morality is predicated on one simple principle: empathetic reciprocity, widely known as the Golden Rule. Treating other people as you would like to be treated. It is an ancient, universal ethical imperative. And it requires no supernatural beliefs.

The results of such secular child-rearing are encouraging. Studies have found that secular teenagers are far less likely to care what the ‘cool kids’ think, or express a need to fit in with them, than their religious peers. When these teens mature into ‘godless’ adults, they exhibit less racism than their religious counterparts, according to a 2010 Duke University study. Many psychological studies show that secular grownups tend to be less vengeful, less nationalistic, less militaristic, less authoritarian and more tolerant, on average, than religious adults.​

So, it seems that we finally have actual data to dispel the myth that religion is necessary in order to instill ethical moral decision-making skills.

A Moral compass and ethics are two different things.
What's their moral compass and what is their set of ethics regarding the various issues in their lives?