Sen Joe McCarthy: American Patriot and Hero

But don't you have to take a moment to reconsider when the central part of your argument is: McCarthy lied and ruined lives, and you can't come up with a single life ruined?

Fabulas suggestion Frankie! I'll pass. Having already lived through the period and recieved the input of my grand parents and parents at the time I'll have to go with that. It does not concern me that McCarthy may have been misunderstood. When looking at the bigger picture there was a "red scare" machine working hard to gin up fear against "commies" and the leftist hollywood crowd. McCarthy was in the lead in this smear campaign. I am not afraid of communists and neither was my family. They thought as I do that communism is and was foolish. It's demise has proven them correct.

We had just finished the most desperate fight for survival and were suckered into a fight with the Chinks via N. Korea. What our country needed was to back off from the war mentality. What we needed was to build up our defenses in a responsible way. McCarthys actions were irrisponsible. Simply put. He and the wack John Birch Society deserved a slap down. He is not worthy of reconsideration.

" Even the truth about Owen Lattimore, the most famous of McCarthy's "victims," has finally come out, thanks to a former Chinese espionage agent's memoirs and declassified FBI files, which go a long way to vindicate McCarthy's original charges. In retrospect, the cause McCarthy made his own — anticommunism — has proved to be more valid and durable than the basic assumptions of his anti-anti-Communist critics."
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html

Ha...Ha....Ha.... PC...you are way past desperate! I think I'll pass on taking a Chinese Commie spy's word for ANYTHING!!!! Who ya gonna quote next? Mao Tse Tung?

Get over it. McCarths legacy has been well defined. Any small discrepancies that idicate he deserves a tad more credit than he has been given is a dollar short and a day late.
 
Fabulas suggestion Frankie! I'll pass. Having already lived through the period and recieved the input of my grand parents and parents at the time I'll have to go with that. It does not concern me that McCarthy may have been misunderstood. When looking at the bigger picture there was a "red scare" machine working hard to gin up fear against "commies" and the leftist hollywood crowd. McCarthy was in the lead in this smear campaign. I am not afraid of communists and neither was my family. They thought as I do that communism is and was foolish. It's demise has proven them correct.

We had just finished the most desperate fight for survival and were suckered into a fight with the Chinks via N. Korea. What our country needed was to back off from the war mentality. What we needed was to build up our defenses in a responsible way. McCarthys actions were irrisponsible. Simply put. He and the wack John Birch Society deserved a slap down. He is not worthy of reconsideration.

" Even the truth about Owen Lattimore, the most famous of McCarthy's "victims," has finally come out, thanks to a former Chinese espionage agent's memoirs and declassified FBI files, which go a long way to vindicate McCarthy's original charges. In retrospect, the cause McCarthy made his own — anticommunism — has proved to be more valid and durable than the basic assumptions of his anti-anti-Communist critics."
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html

Ha...Ha....Ha.... PC...you are way past desperate! I think I'll pass on taking a Chinese Commie spy's word for ANYTHING!!!! Who ya gonna quote next? Mao Tse Tung?

Get over it. McCarths legacy has been well defined. Any small discrepancies that idicate he deserves a tad more credit than he has been given is a dollar short and a day late.

I quoted Hoover's thoughts from a recently declassified FBI memo confirming that Lattimore was a security risk and from a separate FBI memo obtained recently under FOIA describing Lattimore as a Communist.
 
Well...that settles it doesn't it!!!! McCarthy was obviously an American hero!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

But don't you have to take a moment to reconsider when the central part of your argument is: McCarthy lied and ruined lives, and you can't come up with a single life ruined?

Fabulas suggestion Frankie! I'll pass. Having already lived through the period and recieved the input of my grand parents and parents at the time I'll have to go with that. It does not concern me that McCarthy may have been misunderstood. When looking at the bigger picture there was a "red scare" machine working hard to gin up fear against "commies" and the leftist hollywood crowd. McCarthy was in the lead in this smear campaign. I am not afraid of communists and neither was my family. They thought as I do that communism is and was foolish. It's demise has proven them correct.

We had just finished the most desperate fight for survival and were suckered into a fight with the Chinks via N. Korea. What our country needed was to back off from the war mentality. What we needed was to build up our defenses in a responsible way. McCarthys actions were irrisponsible. Simply put. He and the wack John Birch Society deserved a slap down. He is not worthy of reconsideration.

We got Suckered because Lattimore and his treasonous friends at State had us abandon the Free Chinese in favor of the ChiComs.

I confess almost no knowledge about the start of the Korean War but it not too much to supposed that the ChiComs thought they could handle US involvement via their puppets Lattimore, et al.
 
You claimed we could not name anyone.
Lattimore was no communist spy, he was imprisoned on false evidence, his life was ruined and you claim it is all OK because "Hoover didn't trust him".

You need to move to Iran Frank. They do things your way over there.

Everyone knows that American Marxists known as Porgressives have lied about everything to do with McCarthy.

Lattimore was a spy, Lattimore was a Soviet sock puppet.

Lattimore toured a placed compared with Auschwitz and came back raving about how nice it was.

Lattmire is a tool, what's your excuse?

CF, is it simply my impression, or has Dullard73 never used support of his position as in links and documentation?

Wonder why that is......?

Now 'fess up, Frank...have you paid Dullard to post just to make his side look bad?

He'll show up here again spewing how McCarthy's HUAC drove Zero Mostel out of Hollywood.
 
Fabulas suggestion Frankie! I'll pass. Having already lived through the period and recieved the input of my grand parents and parents at the time I'll have to go with that. It does not concern me that McCarthy may have been misunderstood. When looking at the bigger picture there was a "red scare" machine working hard to gin up fear against "commies" and the leftist hollywood crowd. McCarthy was in the lead in this smear campaign. I am not afraid of communists and neither was my family. They thought as I do that communism is and was foolish. It's demise has proven them correct.

We had just finished the most desperate fight for survival and were suckered into a fight with the Chinks via N. Korea. What our country needed was to back off from the war mentality. What we needed was to build up our defenses in a responsible way. McCarthys actions were irrisponsible. Simply put. He and the wack John Birch Society deserved a slap down. He is not worthy of reconsideration.

" Even the truth about Owen Lattimore, the most famous of McCarthy's "victims," has finally come out, thanks to a former Chinese espionage agent's memoirs and declassified FBI files, which go a long way to vindicate McCarthy's original charges. In retrospect, the cause McCarthy made his own — anticommunism — has proved to be more valid and durable than the basic assumptions of his anti-anti-Communist critics."
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html

Ha...Ha....Ha.... PC...you are way past desperate! I think I'll pass on taking a Chinese Commie spy's word for ANYTHING!!!! Who ya gonna quote next? Mao Tse Tung?

Get over it. McCarths legacy has been well defined. Any small discrepancies that idicate he deserves a tad more credit than he has been given is a dollar short and a day late.

Now, friend Hugs, your laugh appears hollow in the light of all the references to the rectitude of Senator McCarthy.

I'm sure you've noticed that none have been able to find any innocent folks that were incriminated by the good Senator, and as a sentient individual, you probably wondered why the Senator has been pilloried as opposed to the one who actually jailed folks for thought crimes, President Woodrow Wilson.


This, from a review of Morgan's book, 'Reds,':

"But the year 1995 was an epochal one for the study of American Communism. For in that year, thanks to the insistence of the late Democratic Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York, who had long specialized in intelligence matters, some 2,900 documents collectively known as "the Venona papers" (a deliberately meaningless code phrase) were de-classified and published. These were radio messages from the top KGB agents in Washington and New York to their superiors in Moscow from approximately 1943 to 1948. They had been recorded at the time by the U.S. Army Signal Corps, but they were, of course, in code, and their decoding was an immensely arduous job carried out by a number of heroic government cryptanalysts over the period from 1945 to 1980.

A second new source of information on the American Communist Party was the archives in Moscow of the defunct Soviet Union, which began to be partially accessible to American investigators in the early 1990s, during the Yeltsin years.

Small wonder, then, that liberals, after the onset of the Cold War with the Soviet Union in 1946, dreaded so profoundly the disclosure of the appalling degree of governmental penetration that they now began to suspect the Communists had achieved on their watch in the 1930s and the first half of the 1940s.

“…This part of the book is going to come as an ugly surprise to a lot of liberals who comforted themselves until 1995 with the aforementioned canonical claptrap about the unimportance of domestic Communism and have managed to ignore the Venona papers and the Soviet archives ever since…."In their scope and effectiveness, the Soviet espionage operations in wartime America were without historical precedent. Never did one country steal so many political, diplomatic, scientific, and military secrets from another. It was analogous, in espionage terms, to the looting of European artworks by the Nazis. Except that in the friendly, cooperative spirit of the times, we invited them in."

The Claremont Institute - A Closer Look Under The Bed
 
But don't you have to take a moment to reconsider when the central part of your argument is: McCarthy lied and ruined lives, and you can't come up with a single life ruined?

Fabulas suggestion Frankie! I'll pass. Having already lived through the period and recieved the input of my grand parents and parents at the time I'll have to go with that. It does not concern me that McCarthy may have been misunderstood. When looking at the bigger picture there was a "red scare" machine working hard to gin up fear against "commies" and the leftist hollywood crowd. McCarthy was in the lead in this smear campaign. I am not afraid of communists and neither was my family. They thought as I do that communism is and was foolish. It's demise has proven them correct.

We had just finished the most desperate fight for survival and were suckered into a fight with the Chinks via N. Korea. What our country needed was to back off from the war mentality. What we needed was to build up our defenses in a responsible way. McCarthys actions were irrisponsible. Simply put. He and the wack John Birch Society deserved a slap down. He is not worthy of reconsideration.

We got Suckered because Lattimore and his treasonous friends at State had us abandon the Free Chinese in favor of the ChiComs.

I confess almost no knowledge about the start of the Korean War but it not too much to supposed that the ChiComs thought they could handle US involvement via their puppets Lattimore, et al.

How lacking in empathy must our friends on the left be not to feel the blood of the millions of Chinese, slaughtered by Mao, on their hands...

Lattimore, raised in Singapore, was in the perfect position to persuade administrations that he knew which Chinese to support...Mao, rather than Chiang Kai-shek.

And "[Harry Dexter] White engineered the Treasury's fatal delay in providing a promised loan to support the currency of Nationalist China, then in its epochal struggle with the Chinese Communists. As Morgan remarks, "Failure to receive the loan in time was only part of the cause of Chiang Kai-shek's downfall, but it counted." (Who lost China?)
The Claremont Institute - A Closer Look Under The Bed

These are the Soviet agents who determined US policy.
Democrat administrations believed, promoted and followed the directions of Soviet agents...
 
What I believe is that neither of you two understand what it was like back then. McCarthy wasn't blabbering his demagoguery in a vacuum. He was the show. Let me compare it to something you may be able to relate to..two examples. A: The Watergate affair B. The senate hearings and impeachment trial of Bill Clinton.

EXCEPT the McCarthy hearings had a phony nationalistic "better dead than red" mentality and when you combined that with the brand new atomic bomb ..it scared the shit out of EVERYBODY! That's when the crazy "drop and cover" exercises started. Nowadays we take nuclear deterrent for granted. We are collectively numb to the possibility of a nuclear exchange. Not so back then. The horror of a nuclear bomb was fresh in everyones mind. "Communist" meant "Communist Spies". Communist Spies meant were all going to die in a nuclear holocaust. Most people really believed that shit. You have to take into account that there was no "other" source of information. Try to imagine what it would be like if the only official you got talked to by was Obama. The three news channels very seldom editorialised. In fact there was no National television programming per Se. There was the evening news and "special broadcasts only for a long time. Most of what you saw was local stations programing. AND those stations went off the air sometimes as early as 9 PM. back on between 6 and 8 AM. The McCarthy hearings were broadcast as a "special program" There was much more information on the radio than television and there was much more information in newsprint at that time than anywhere else. We were like mushrooms..kept in the dark and fed bullshit. Point being it was easy for McCarthy to monopolize what little media that existed once he got everyone scared.

Sure there were a handful of spies. Big whoop! There have ALWAYS been spies.

One of my dads best friends was a spook for the CIA. His job was to catch spies and dispose of them...quietly and terminally. I'll just call him "Ben" cuz that's his name. Ben advised me for many years on my smuggling exploits as a favor to my dad. He shared tales of his job sometimes to try to scare me out of my work. I can assure you that our enemies are far more reluctant to try to steal secrets when their agents are all of a sudden never heard from again. They assume rightly that the dumb unlucky s.o.b. gave up HIS secrets in the final minutes of drawing breath. That's the way to deal with spies. Making a spectacle is the wrong way on almost every level.
 
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What I believe is that neither of you two understand what it was like back then. McCarthy wasn't blabbering his demagoguery in a vacuum. He was the show. Let me compare it to something you may be able to relate to..two examples. A: The Watergate affair B. The senate hearings and impeachment trial of Bill Clinton.

EXCEPT the McCarthy hearings had a phony nationalistic "better dead than red" mentality and when you combined that with the brand new atomic bomb ..it scared the shit out of EVERYBODY! That's when the crazy "drop and cover" exercises started. Nowadays we take nuclear deterrent for granted. We are collectively numb to the possibility of a nuclear exchange. No so back then. The horror of a nuclear bomb was fresh in everyones mind. "Communist" meant "Communist Spies". Communist Spies meant were all going to die in a nuclear holocaust. Most people really believed that shit. You have to take into account that there was no "other" source of information. Try to imagine what it would be like if the only official you got talked to by was Obama. The three news channels very seldom editorialised. In fact there was no National television programming per Se. There was the evening news and "special broadcasts only for a long time. Most of what you saw was local stations programing. AND those stations went off the air sometimes as early as 9 PM. back on between 6 and 8 AM. The McCarthy hearings were broadcast as a "special program" There was much more information on the radio than television and there was much more information in newsprint at that time than anywhere else. We were like mushrooms..kept in the dark and fed bullshit. Point being it was easy for McCarthy to monopolize what little media that existed once he got everyone scared.

Sure there were a handful of spies. Big whoop! There have ALWAYS been spies.

One of my dads best friends was a spook for the CIA. His job was to catch spies and dispose of them...quietly and terminally. I'll just call him "Ben" cuz that's his name. Ben advised me for many years on my smuggling exploits as a favor to my dad. He shared tales of his job sometimes to try to scare me out of my work. I can assure you that our enemies are far more reluctant to try to steal secrets when their agents are all of a sudden never heard from again. They assume rightly that the dumb unlucky s.o.b. gave up HIS secrets in the final minutes of drawing breath. That's the way to deal with spies. Making a spectacle is the wrong way on almost every level.

Anecdotal personal history is very different from an eschatological perspective.

Yet each may be more determinative at different times...

I have a sense that you are beginning to understand how American policy and world history since the end of WWII have been directed by the efforts of the totalitarians, and the lack of effort by the liberals.

I believe that you'll think about it...
 
What I believe is that neither of you two understand what it was like back then. McCarthy wasn't blabbering his demagoguery in a vacuum. He was the show. Let me compare it to something you may be able to relate to..two examples. A: The Watergate affair B. The senate hearings and impeachment trial of Bill Clinton.

EXCEPT the McCarthy hearings had a phony nationalistic "better dead than red" mentality and when you combined that with the brand new atomic bomb ..it scared the shit out of EVERYBODY! That's when the crazy "drop and cover" exercises started. Nowadays we take nuclear deterrent for granted. We are collectively numb to the possibility of a nuclear exchange. No so back then. The horror of a nuclear bomb was fresh in everyones mind. "Communist" meant "Communist Spies". Communist Spies meant were all going to die in a nuclear holocaust. Most people really believed that shit. You have to take into account that there was no "other" source of information. Try to imagine what it would be like if the only official you got talked to by was Obama. The three news channels very seldom editorialised. In fact there was no National television programming per Se. There was the evening news and "special broadcasts only for a long time. Most of what you saw was local stations programing. AND those stations went off the air sometimes as early as 9 PM. back on between 6 and 8 AM. The McCarthy hearings were broadcast as a "special program" There was much more information on the radio than television and there was much more information in newsprint at that time than anywhere else. We were like mushrooms..kept in the dark and fed bullshit. Point being it was easy for McCarthy to monopolize what little media that existed once he got everyone scared.

Sure there were a handful of spies. Big whoop! There have ALWAYS been spies.

One of my dads best friends was a spook for the CIA. His job was to catch spies and dispose of them...quietly and terminally. I'll just call him "Ben" cuz that's his name. Ben advised me for many years on my smuggling exploits as a favor to my dad. He shared tales of his job sometimes to try to scare me out of my work. I can assure you that our enemies are far more reluctant to try to steal secrets when their agents are all of a sudden never heard from again. They assume rightly that the dumb unlucky s.o.b. gave up HIS secrets in the final minutes of drawing breath. That's the way to deal with spies. Making a spectacle is the wrong way on almost every level.

Anecdotal personal history is very different from an eschatological perspective.

Yet each may be more determinative at different times...

I have a sense that you are beginning to understand how American policy and world history since the end of WWII have been directed by the efforts of the totalitarians, and the lack of effort by the liberals.

I believe that you'll think about it...

I don't dispute that I may never have heard the whole story at the time. What you cannot dispute was the chilling and very dangerous antiAmerican effect McCarthy had on the sensibilities of the average American at the time. Thousands of everyday people turning in their neighbors. Blacklisting. The level of fear and paranoia was insane. If it took sacrificing McCarthy to snap the American psyche out of the crazy commie witch hunt then it was well worth it.
 
What I believe is that neither of you two understand what it was like back then. McCarthy wasn't blabbering his demagoguery in a vacuum. He was the show. Let me compare it to something you may be able to relate to..two examples. A: The Watergate affair B. The senate hearings and impeachment trial of Bill Clinton.

EXCEPT the McCarthy hearings had a phony nationalistic "better dead than red" mentality and when you combined that with the brand new atomic bomb ..it scared the shit out of EVERYBODY! That's when the crazy "drop and cover" exercises started. Nowadays we take nuclear deterrent for granted. We are collectively numb to the possibility of a nuclear exchange. No so back then. The horror of a nuclear bomb was fresh in everyones mind. "Communist" meant "Communist Spies". Communist Spies meant were all going to die in a nuclear holocaust. Most people really believed that shit. You have to take into account that there was no "other" source of information. Try to imagine what it would be like if the only official you got talked to by was Obama. The three news channels very seldom editorialised. In fact there was no National television programming per Se. There was the evening news and "special broadcasts only for a long time. Most of what you saw was local stations programing. AND those stations went off the air sometimes as early as 9 PM. back on between 6 and 8 AM. The McCarthy hearings were broadcast as a "special program" There was much more information on the radio than television and there was much more information in newsprint at that time than anywhere else. We were like mushrooms..kept in the dark and fed bullshit. Point being it was easy for McCarthy to monopolize what little media that existed once he got everyone scared.

Sure there were a handful of spies. Big whoop! There have ALWAYS been spies.

One of my dads best friends was a spook for the CIA. His job was to catch spies and dispose of them...quietly and terminally. I'll just call him "Ben" cuz that's his name. Ben advised me for many years on my smuggling exploits as a favor to my dad. He shared tales of his job sometimes to try to scare me out of my work. I can assure you that our enemies are far more reluctant to try to steal secrets when their agents are all of a sudden never heard from again. They assume rightly that the dumb unlucky s.o.b. gave up HIS secrets in the final minutes of drawing breath. That's the way to deal with spies. Making a spectacle is the wrong way on almost every level.

Anecdotal personal history is very different from an eschatological perspective.

Yet each may be more determinative at different times...

I have a sense that you are beginning to understand how American policy and world history since the end of WWII have been directed by the efforts of the totalitarians, and the lack of effort by the liberals.

I believe that you'll think about it...

I don't dispute that I may never have heard the whole story at the time. What you cannot dispute was the chilling and very dangerous antiAmerican effect McCarthy had on the sensibilities of the average American at the time. Thousands of everyday people turning in their neighbors. Blacklisting. The level of fear and paranoia was insane. If it took sacrificing McCarthy to snap the American psyche out of the crazy commie witch hunt then it was well worth it.

You misstate, I believe, the direction of the 'anti-American effect..."
It was actually the acceptance of totalitarian communism by both the average person who had no sense of how dangerous communism was, and how close it came to dominating this country, and elected Democratic officials, who laughed it off, that represented anti-Americanism. McCarty was the Paul Revere of his day.


A better understanding of the numbers:

"The best and most generous estimate is that during the entire decade of the red scare, ten thousand Americans lost their jobs because of their past or present affiliation with the Communist Party or one of its auxiliary organizations. Of those who lost their jobs, two thousand worked in the government, and in perhaps forty cases McCarthy himself was directly or indirectly responsible for their being fired. In only one case — that of Owen Lattimore — can anyone make the argument that McCarthy's allegations led to any actual legal proceedings, and there a judge eventually threw out most of the indictment. Paradoxically, the fact that McCarthy never sent anyone to prison is also turned against him; opponents claimed that during his entire career, he never actually exposed a single spy or Communist — a claim that is manifestly untrue, as we will see.

In fact, the number of people who did spend time in prison remained small. A grand total of 108 Communist Party members were convicted under the antisubversion provisions of the Smith Act, which Congress passed in 1941 (long before McCarthy was a member) and applied as equally to Nazi and fascist organizations as it did to Communists. Another twenty Communist Party members were imprisoned under state and local laws. Fewer than a dozen Americans went to jail for espionage activities (one of them being Alger Hiss, who was convicted of perjury). Exactly two were sentenced to death for conspiracy to commit espionage: Julius and Ethel Rosenberg."
(emphasis mine)
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html

To get a better picture of what we would have seen in the United States, had agents like Lattimore, White, and the Rosenbergs gotten their way, consider what the Russian Communists did to their own people:

"We need to contrast all this with the three and a half million people who, according to the KGB's own official numbers, were arrested and sent to the gulag during the six years of Stalin's Great Terror, from 1935 to 1941. None had the benefit of any genuine legal protection; Stalin's secret police seized, interrogated, and sentenced the lot. The KGB states that of that number, 681,692 were executed in 1937-1938 alone. Taken with the four or five million people who died in Stalin's Great Famine of 1932-1933, the total number of human beings executed, exiled, imprisoned, or starved to death in those years comes to ten to eleven million. These are official KGB numbers released at the end of the cold war. They are almost certainly low."
Ibid.

And the hero who stood up against this 'red tide' is the one you choose to rail against. I know you'll reconsider in view of the actual history.
 
Paul Revere was a patriot who put his life in danger to serve the cause.

McCarthy was a vicious demagogue who had no real care for America and its people as long as he had power to aggrandize himself and persecute others. He no more believed in his cause than many of the Pope's inquisitors.

Question: why does PC ignore that Ollie North was a perjured felon, like Owen Lattimore, and both had their convictions overturned?

Question: why does PC ignore that names of the injured and the climate of fear by the innocent has been established beyond doubt?

Question: why does PC claim those that factually refute her arguments are "liberals", when in fact many are not?

Conclusion: PC is fail.
 
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Paul Revere was a patriot who put his life in danger to serve the cause.

McCarthy was a vicious demagogue who had no real care for America and its people as long as he had power to aggrandize himself and persecute others. He no more believed in his cause than many of the Pope's inquisitors.

Question: why does PC ignore that Ollie North was a perjured felon, like Owen Lattimore, and both had their convictions overturned?

Question: why does PC ignore that names of the injured and the climate of fear by the innocent has been established beyond doubt?

Question: why does PC claim those that factually refute her arguments are "liberals", when in fact many are not?

Conclusion: PC is fail.

Question: Why does Jake Starkey continue to post in a thread that he refuses to read?
 
Paul Revere was a patriot who put his life in danger to serve the cause.

McCarthy was a vicious demagogue who had no real care for America and its people as long as he had power to aggrandize himself and persecute others. He no more believed in his cause than many of the Pope's inquisitors.

Question: why does PC ignore that Ollie North was a perjured felon, like Owen Lattimore, and both had their convictions overturned?

Question: why does PC ignore that names of the injured and the climate of fear by the innocent has been established beyond doubt?

Question: why does PC claim those that factually refute her arguments are "liberals", when in fact many are not?

Conclusion: PC is fail.

Why is Jake Starkey spending so much time defending confirmed spy Owen Latimore?
 
McCarthy was a vicious demagogue who had no real care for America and its people as long as he had power to aggrandize himself and persecute others. He no more believed in his cause than many of the Pope's inquisitors.

Question: why does PC ignore that Ollie North was a perjured felon, like Owen Lattimore, and both had their convictions overturned?

Question: why does PC ignore that names of the injured and the climate of fear by the innocent has been established beyond doubt?

Question: why does PC claim those that factually refute her arguments are "liberals", when in fact many are not?

Conclusion: PC is fail.
 
McCarthy was a vicious demagogue who had no real care for America and its people as long as he had power to aggrandize himself and persecute others. He no more believed in his cause than many of the Pope's inquisitors.

Question: why does PC ignore that Ollie North was a perjured felon, like Owen Lattimore, and both had their convictions overturned?

Question: why does PC ignore that names of the injured and the climate of fear by the innocent has been established beyond doubt?

Question: why does PC claim those that factually refute her arguments are "liberals", when in fact many are not?

Conclusion: PC is fail.

Owen Lattimore handed China to Mao. Why do Progressives continue to support traitors who helped history's greatest mass murderer?

It's mind boggling
 
Anecdotal personal history is very different from an eschatological perspective.

Yet each may be more determinative at different times...

I have a sense that you are beginning to understand how American policy and world history since the end of WWII have been directed by the efforts of the totalitarians, and the lack of effort by the liberals.

I believe that you'll think about it...

I don't dispute that I may never have heard the whole story at the time. What you cannot dispute was the chilling and very dangerous antiAmerican effect McCarthy had on the sensibilities of the average American at the time. Thousands of everyday people turning in their neighbors. Blacklisting. The level of fear and paranoia was insane. If it took sacrificing McCarthy to snap the American psyche out of the crazy commie witch hunt then it was well worth it.

You misstate, I believe, the direction of the 'anti-American effect..."
It was actually the acceptance of totalitarian communism by both the average person who had no sense of how dangerous communism was, and how close it came to dominating this country, and elected Democratic officials, who laughed it off, that represented anti-Americanism. McCarty was the Paul Revere of his day.


A better understanding of the numbers:

"The best and most generous estimate is that during the entire decade of the red scare, ten thousand Americans lost their jobs because of their past or present affiliation with the Communist Party or one of its auxiliary organizations. Of those who lost their jobs, two thousand worked in the government, and in perhaps forty cases McCarthy himself was directly or indirectly responsible for their being fired. In only one case — that of Owen Lattimore — can anyone make the argument that McCarthy's allegations led to any actual legal proceedings, and there a judge eventually threw out most of the indictment. Paradoxically, the fact that McCarthy never sent anyone to prison is also turned against him; opponents claimed that during his entire career, he never actually exposed a single spy or Communist — a claim that is manifestly untrue, as we will see.

In fact, the number of people who did spend time in prison remained small. A grand total of 108 Communist Party members were convicted under the antisubversion provisions of the Smith Act, which Congress passed in 1941 (long before McCarthy was a member) and applied as equally to Nazi and fascist organizations as it did to Communists. Another twenty Communist Party members were imprisoned under state and local laws. Fewer than a dozen Americans went to jail for espionage activities (one of them being Alger Hiss, who was convicted of perjury). Exactly two were sentenced to death for conspiracy to commit espionage: Julius and Ethel Rosenberg."
(emphasis mine)
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html

To get a better picture of what we would have seen in the United States, had agents like Lattimore, White, and the Rosenbergs gotten their way, consider what the Russian Communists did to their own people:

"We need to contrast all this with the three and a half million people who, according to the KGB's own official numbers, were arrested and sent to the gulag during the six years of Stalin's Great Terror, from 1935 to 1941. None had the benefit of any genuine legal protection; Stalin's secret police seized, interrogated, and sentenced the lot. The KGB states that of that number, 681,692 were executed in 1937-1938 alone. Taken with the four or five million people who died in Stalin's Great Famine of 1932-1933, the total number of human beings executed, exiled, imprisoned, or starved to death in those years comes to ten to eleven million. These are official KGB numbers released at the end of the cold war. They are almost certainly low."
Ibid.

And the hero who stood up against this 'red tide' is the one you choose to rail against. I know you'll reconsider in view of the actual history.

No one can deny that "Stalinism" was a horrible chapter in Russia.

There have always been spies in our country...some of them dangerous. I believe that they should be found out by law enforcement ..quietly. If necessary they should be handled as my dad's friend did working as a spook for the CIA by covertly snatching them and eliminating them. There is nothing like a spy "missing in action" that sends a chill and an undeniable message into the hearts of our enemies.
 
I don't dispute that I may never have heard the whole story at the time. What you cannot dispute was the chilling and very dangerous antiAmerican effect McCarthy had on the sensibilities of the average American at the time. Thousands of everyday people turning in their neighbors. Blacklisting. The level of fear and paranoia was insane. If it took sacrificing McCarthy to snap the American psyche out of the crazy commie witch hunt then it was well worth it.

You misstate, I believe, the direction of the 'anti-American effect..."
It was actually the acceptance of totalitarian communism by both the average person who had no sense of how dangerous communism was, and how close it came to dominating this country, and elected Democratic officials, who laughed it off, that represented anti-Americanism. McCarty was the Paul Revere of his day.


A better understanding of the numbers:

"The best and most generous estimate is that during the entire decade of the red scare, ten thousand Americans lost their jobs because of their past or present affiliation with the Communist Party or one of its auxiliary organizations. Of those who lost their jobs, two thousand worked in the government, and in perhaps forty cases McCarthy himself was directly or indirectly responsible for their being fired. In only one case — that of Owen Lattimore — can anyone make the argument that McCarthy's allegations led to any actual legal proceedings, and there a judge eventually threw out most of the indictment. Paradoxically, the fact that McCarthy never sent anyone to prison is also turned against him; opponents claimed that during his entire career, he never actually exposed a single spy or Communist — a claim that is manifestly untrue, as we will see.

In fact, the number of people who did spend time in prison remained small. A grand total of 108 Communist Party members were convicted under the antisubversion provisions of the Smith Act, which Congress passed in 1941 (long before McCarthy was a member) and applied as equally to Nazi and fascist organizations as it did to Communists. Another twenty Communist Party members were imprisoned under state and local laws. Fewer than a dozen Americans went to jail for espionage activities (one of them being Alger Hiss, who was convicted of perjury). Exactly two were sentenced to death for conspiracy to commit espionage: Julius and Ethel Rosenberg."
(emphasis mine)
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html

To get a better picture of what we would have seen in the United States, had agents like Lattimore, White, and the Rosenbergs gotten their way, consider what the Russian Communists did to their own people:

"We need to contrast all this with the three and a half million people who, according to the KGB's own official numbers, were arrested and sent to the gulag during the six years of Stalin's Great Terror, from 1935 to 1941. None had the benefit of any genuine legal protection; Stalin's secret police seized, interrogated, and sentenced the lot. The KGB states that of that number, 681,692 were executed in 1937-1938 alone. Taken with the four or five million people who died in Stalin's Great Famine of 1932-1933, the total number of human beings executed, exiled, imprisoned, or starved to death in those years comes to ten to eleven million. These are official KGB numbers released at the end of the cold war. They are almost certainly low."
Ibid.

And the hero who stood up against this 'red tide' is the one you choose to rail against. I know you'll reconsider in view of the actual history.

No one can deny that "Stalinism" was a horrible chapter in Russia.

There have always been spies in our country...some of them dangerous. I believe that they should be found out by law enforcement ..quietly. If necessary they should be handled as my dad's friend did working as a spook for the CIA by covertly snatching them and eliminating them. There is nothing like a spy "missing in action" that sends a chill and an undeniable message into the hearts of our enemies.

The FBI was all over it, they warned FDR, they did what they could within the limits of the law. That Owen Lattimore, Lauchlin Currie, Harry White and others didn't disappear speaks to the restraint that Hoover operated under.

If you read Lauchlin Currie's Wikidpedia information you have to wonder not only how how didn't vanish, but how and why he was such a trusted adviser to FDR!

He's collapsing our economy, handing China to Mao and part of a know Soviet spy ring the whole time.

Lauchlin Currie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
You misstate, I believe, the direction of the 'anti-American effect..."
It was actually the acceptance of totalitarian communism by both the average person who had no sense of how dangerous communism was, and how close it came to dominating this country, and elected Democratic officials, who laughed it off, that represented anti-Americanism. McCarty was the Paul Revere of his day.


A better understanding of the numbers:

"The best and most generous estimate is that during the entire decade of the red scare, ten thousand Americans lost their jobs because of their past or present affiliation with the Communist Party or one of its auxiliary organizations. Of those who lost their jobs, two thousand worked in the government, and in perhaps forty cases McCarthy himself was directly or indirectly responsible for their being fired. In only one case — that of Owen Lattimore — can anyone make the argument that McCarthy's allegations led to any actual legal proceedings, and there a judge eventually threw out most of the indictment. Paradoxically, the fact that McCarthy never sent anyone to prison is also turned against him; opponents claimed that during his entire career, he never actually exposed a single spy or Communist — a claim that is manifestly untrue, as we will see.

In fact, the number of people who did spend time in prison remained small. A grand total of 108 Communist Party members were convicted under the antisubversion provisions of the Smith Act, which Congress passed in 1941 (long before McCarthy was a member) and applied as equally to Nazi and fascist organizations as it did to Communists. Another twenty Communist Party members were imprisoned under state and local laws. Fewer than a dozen Americans went to jail for espionage activities (one of them being Alger Hiss, who was convicted of perjury). Exactly two were sentenced to death for conspiracy to commit espionage: Julius and Ethel Rosenberg."
(emphasis mine)
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html

To get a better picture of what we would have seen in the United States, had agents like Lattimore, White, and the Rosenbergs gotten their way, consider what the Russian Communists did to their own people:

"We need to contrast all this with the three and a half million people who, according to the KGB's own official numbers, were arrested and sent to the gulag during the six years of Stalin's Great Terror, from 1935 to 1941. None had the benefit of any genuine legal protection; Stalin's secret police seized, interrogated, and sentenced the lot. The KGB states that of that number, 681,692 were executed in 1937-1938 alone. Taken with the four or five million people who died in Stalin's Great Famine of 1932-1933, the total number of human beings executed, exiled, imprisoned, or starved to death in those years comes to ten to eleven million. These are official KGB numbers released at the end of the cold war. They are almost certainly low."
Ibid.

And the hero who stood up against this 'red tide' is the one you choose to rail against. I know you'll reconsider in view of the actual history.

No one can deny that "Stalinism" was a horrible chapter in Russia.

There have always been spies in our country...some of them dangerous. I believe that they should be found out by law enforcement ..quietly. If necessary they should be handled as my dad's friend did working as a spook for the CIA by covertly snatching them and eliminating them. There is nothing like a spy "missing in action" that sends a chill and an undeniable message into the hearts of our enemies.

The FBI was all over it, they warned FDR, they did what they could within the limits of the law. That Owen Lattimore, Lauchlin Currie, Harry White and others didn't disappear speaks to the restraint that Hoover operated under.

If you read Lauchlin Currie's Wikidpedia information you have to wonder not only how how didn't vanish, but how and why he was such a trusted adviser to FDR!

He's collapsing our economy, handing China to Mao and part of a know Soviet spy ring the whole time.

Lauchlin Currie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Roosevelt was living a lie. He did some good things but when you are so busy hiding your crippling disease it makes a president vulnerable. He should have never ran and when he became overwhelmed with his ilness he should have stepped down. No one is that indespensable. .
 
No one can deny that "Stalinism" was a horrible chapter in Russia.

There have always been spies in our country...some of them dangerous. I believe that they should be found out by law enforcement ..quietly. If necessary they should be handled as my dad's friend did working as a spook for the CIA by covertly snatching them and eliminating them. There is nothing like a spy "missing in action" that sends a chill and an undeniable message into the hearts of our enemies.

The FBI was all over it, they warned FDR, they did what they could within the limits of the law. That Owen Lattimore, Lauchlin Currie, Harry White and others didn't disappear speaks to the restraint that Hoover operated under.

If you read Lauchlin Currie's Wikidpedia information you have to wonder not only how how didn't vanish, but how and why he was such a trusted adviser to FDR!

He's collapsing our economy, handing China to Mao and part of a know Soviet spy ring the whole time.

Lauchlin Currie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Roosevelt was living a lie. He did some good things but when you are so busy hiding your crippling disease it makes a president vulnerable. He should have never ran and when he became overwhelmed with his ilness he should have stepped down. No one is that indespensable. .

Well except for NY's Emperor Bloomberg
 

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