Senator Orrin Hatch proves Republicans are heartless while talking about children's health care

[hunarcy]

You know, having had numerous family members that were teachers, I find that really offensive.
We get it, you want to blame everything on them. Are there bad apples? Yes, just as in any field. But most are there because they do care. I don’t care for the teachers union, as many of my family that we’re teachers didn’t. But they also knew they would protect them, if ever a false charge was levied against them.
Quit blaming the teachers. Blame the union, since that is your real beef. And start an honest thread on that topic, rather than playing these silly games. You actually make yourself look dishonest.

Excellent now we can discuss why the public school system is so screwed up. Tell me why are new teachers full of energy and passion about teaching kids paid shit salaries? Yes the teachers at the top gobble up the lions share of the money and many of those are in the HUGE bloated layer of non teaching FAT aka school administrators. Teachers who no longer want to teach raking in a ridiculous salary, benefit, and pension package doing some joke of an administrative job. Did you know that in one state there was 1 highly paid school administrator for every 2 teachers on the payroll.

Can we recruit the best and brightest into the teaching profession paying new teachers half the salary they should be making out of college? Christ I know new teachers, married teachers who have to live in their parents home because they can't afford their own place on the shit starting salaries they are paid.

I would pay double the school taxes I currently pay if the screwed up public school system was corrected AND I'd feel good about paying them, that MY money was actually making a difference. I have no interest in paying more taxes just to pad the salaries, benefits, and pensions of a bloated administrative layer at the top of the food chain while new teachers are tossed table scraps.

Honestly, you are an idiot.

 

[hunarcy]

If they are conservatives, they should know why they should not get a refund for taxes they did not pay.

But its okay for the teachers union to confiscate my money to pay to educate other people's kids? We better agree to disagree before this discussion gets ugly.

Please explain that to me! How does the teacher's union confiscate your money? You are making no sense here.

I have been FORCED to pay school taxes for decades to educate other peoples kids, money the teachers unions have extorted from me and taxpayers via strikes. You are taking a harsh social position saying poor families who don't make enough to owe any income tax should not be entitled to a child tax credit refund, I presume your position is one of fairness. Well okay then why is the teachers union entitled to 10's of thousands of dollars of MY money when I don't have any kids? Why am I forced to educate other peoples kids? They chose to have kids, I chose not to yet I'm stuck paying THEIR bills.

If you are going to take a harsh position on the child tax credit for poor families, you can't have it both ways. People should pay for their own damn kids education, I shouldn't have to pay for it. No less harsh a position than you are taking.

I was thinking that the teachers unions got their money from dues paying members, not the taxpayers.

Here teachers go out on strike extorting money from taxpayers. When your kids are supposed to be in school and you don't have childcare lined up and you have to work a job, the teachers go out on strike and millions of parents then have to scramble to arraign childcare, call in late for work or take time off, the teachers unions know this cost parents so much money and disruption that they will quickly fold to the teachers union demands.

You are an idiot, as well.

 

[BluesLegend]

Most places use bonds to build new schools, or major improvements-not property taxes. And teachers have nothing to do with that. Period. And even if within the taxes, teachers once again have nothing to do with administration of funds.

To build new school buildings yes, for maintenance of existing school buildings no. Our local teachers have been using the 'crumbling school buildings maintenance' excuse for tax increases for decades. In our area teachers have EVERYTHING to do with how taxpayer money is allocated, via corruption, collusion with politicians and extortion via teachers going out on strike. Maybe its different in your area, I'm talking about Dem corrupted run school districts and states.

 

[depotoo]

There you go blaming teachers again, when they don’t disburse funds.

Most places use bonds to build new schools, or major improvements-not property taxes. And teachers have nothing to do with that. Period. And even if within the taxes, teachers once again have nothing to do with administration of funds.

To build new school buildings yes, for maintenance of existing school buildings no. Our local teachers have been using the 'crumbling school buildings maintenance' excuse for tax increases for decades. In our area teachers have EVERYTHING to do with how taxpayer money is allocated, via corruption, collusion with politicians and extortion via teachers going out on strike. Maybe its different in your area, I'm talking about Dem corrupted run school districts and states.

 

[BluesLegend]

I know, because I actually posted about it.
You have sat here and blamed the gop tax credit & teachers for the fault of the states, administrators, or unions. That is crap.
I think it’s time you take a step back, refocus and cohesively think of where the problems actually exist, and then start a thread which addresses those issues. Not a fake equivalence where you have been all over the place.

I'm right about the child tax credit, when you realize this you can come back to me and admit it. Because I'm a nice guy I won't rub it in that I said I told you so.

 

[BluesLegend]

Hey look, the poor were left out of this tax bill FACT! The cheap bastard GOP wouldn't even extend to them the increase in the child tax credit they gave to everyone else, though some GOP senators lobbied for this.

I'm a fiscal conservative, I HATE liberals, but cutting everyone a break except the poor was retarded. We don't want the poor to remain poor HELLO for fucks sake.

The bottom 50% already don't pay income taxes. I think that's good, but it does point out why they can't get a tax cut...they already don't pay income taxes.

Do you want the bottom 50% to climb the ladder and start paying income taxes? My fellow conservatives, you will catch up to me sooner or later.

 

[BluesLegend]

You really need to go back and reread this thread from beginning to end, without any distractions.
Simply put, maybe you are just pissed because Marco Rubio and Chuck Schumer didn’t get their amendment added.

So, be honest here. You have a problem with school districts spending and teachers unions. That is totally a different topic. Now, if you are honest, you would start a new thread on that, rather than dishonestly try to tie this to it.

I have been FORCED to pay school taxes for decades to educate other peoples kids, money the teachers unions have extorted from me and taxpayers via strikes. You are taking a harsh social position saying poor families who don't make enough to owe any income tax should not be entitled to a child tax credit refund, I presume your position is one of fairness. Well okay then why is the teachers union entitled to 10's of thousands of dollars of MY money when I don't have any kids? Why am I forced to educate other peoples kids? They chose to have kids, I chose not to yet I'm stuck paying THEIR bills.

If you are going to take a harsh position on the child tax credit for poor families, you can't have it both ways. People should pay for their own damn kids education, I shouldn't have to pay for it. No less harsh a position than you are taking.

I was thinking that the teachers unions got their money from dues paying members, not the taxpayers.

Here teachers go out on strike extorting money from taxpayers. When your kids are supposed to be in school and you don't have childcare lined up and you have to work a job, the teachers go out on strike and millions of parents then have to scramble to arraign childcare, call in late for work or take time off, the teachers unions know this cost parents so much money and disruption that they will quickly fold to the teachers union demands.

I used public school funding to counter the argument by some that poor working families should be excluded from the child tax credit increase which is precisely dead center of the thread's topic, you follow? That said I'll refrain from this line of debate if you wish.

Schumer is a POS and little Marco is part of the GOP establishment. Some, it seems all of my fellow conservatives here are celebrating that millions of poor working families will not received the $1000 increase in the child tax credit. I guess you got your ounce of flesh out of the poor congrats, many of whom voted for Trump by the way. You remember Trump right the guy who promised to help poor working families. I'm done here

 

[depotoo]

Why do I feel I am witnesseing a real life body snatchers?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

If they are conservatives, they should know why they should not get a refund for taxes they did not pay.

But its okay for the teachers union to confiscate my money to pay to educate other people's kids? We better agree to disagree before this discussion gets ugly.

Please explain that to me! How does the teacher's union confiscate your money? You are making no sense here.

I have been FORCED to pay school taxes for decades to educate other peoples kids, money the teachers unions have extorted from me and taxpayers via strikes. You are taking a harsh social position saying poor families who don't make enough to owe any income tax should not be entitled to a child tax credit refund, I presume your position is one of fairness. Well okay then why is the teachers union entitled to 10's of thousands of dollars of MY money when I don't have any kids? Why am I forced to educate other peoples kids? They chose to have kids, I chose not to yet I'm stuck paying THEIR bills.

If you are going to take a harsh position on the child tax credit for poor families, you can't have it both ways. People should pay for their own damn kids education, I shouldn't have to pay for it. No less harsh a position than you are taking.

I was thinking that the teachers unions got their money from dues paying members, not the taxpayers.

Here teachers go out on strike extorting money from taxpayers. When your kids are supposed to be in school and you don't have childcare lined up and you have to work a job, the teachers go out on strike and millions of parents then have to scramble to arraign childcare, call in late for work or take time off, the teachers unions know this cost parents so much money and disruption that they will quickly fold to the teachers union demands.

Why not outlaw strikes like the rest of the civilized world has done?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You know, having had numerous family members that were teachers, I find that really offensive.
We get it, you want to blame everything on them. Are there bad apples? Yes, just as in any field. But most are there because they do care. I don’t care for the teachers union, as many of my family that we’re teachers didn’t. But they also knew they would protect them, if ever a false charge was levied against them.
Quit blaming the teachers. Blame the union, since that is your real beef. And start an honest thread on that topic, rather than playing these silly games. You actually make yourself look dishonest.

Excellent now we can discuss why the public school system is so screwed up. Tell me why are new teachers full of energy and passion about teaching kids paid shit salaries? Yes the teachers at the top gobble up the lions share of the money and many of those are in the HUGE bloated layer of non teaching FAT aka school administrators. Teachers who no longer want to teach raking in a ridiculous salary, benefit, and pension package doing some joke of an administrative job. Did you know that in one state there was 1 highly paid school administrator for every 2 teachers on the payroll.

Can we recruit the best and brightest into the teaching profession paying new teachers half the salary they should be making out of college? Christ I know new teachers, married teachers who have to live in their parents home because they can't afford their own place on the shit starting salaries they are paid.

I would pay double the school taxes I currently pay if the screwed up public school system was corrected AND I'd feel good about paying them, that MY money was actually making a difference. I have no interest in paying more taxes just to pad the salaries, benefits, and pensions of a bloated administrative layer at the top of the food chain while new teachers are tossed table scraps.

Man, you are such a hypocrite!

That is what the teacher's unions fight for in the rest of the free world.

You do realize that administrators are NOT part of the union, right?

There just seems like too much ignorance of the real world coming out in your posts.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They are not excluded. They can get a credit of up to $2 grand they paid in. If they didn’t pay in, then they are already getting subsidies in some form or another, usually worth much more than that $2 grand and per month. How you see that as penalizing people, is beyond me.

I'm simply agreeing with GOP senators who said excluding poor working families from the additional $1,000 child tax credit is a mistake. Today I'm in the 3% but having grown up poor living in Dem controlled states that vampire suck the poor dry I have a different perspective, like some of these GOP senators.

Move!

 

[g5000]

Here it another excerpt that changes what he said-

“[L]et me tell you something: we’re going to do CHIP. There’s no question about it in my mind. It’s got to be done the right way. But we, the reason CHIP’s having trouble is because we don’t have money anymore.”

We're out of money. We gave it all away to the corporations in this tax "reform". They need to be able to deduct the cost of their private jets!

 

[Dragonlady]

Here it another excerpt that changes what he said-

“[L]et me tell you something: we’re going to do CHIP. There’s no question about it in my mind. It’s got to be done the right way. But we, the reason CHIP’s having trouble is because we don’t have money anymore.”

Yes, out of money for children. Plenty to dump into poking our military's nose into everything all over the world though.

Lots of money for tax cuts for the most profitable corporations in the world too.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Everyone benefits from an educated populace. Your point is meaningless babbling you have heard from parents with kids in private schools and homeschoolers.

I have no children in public schools either, but two of my grandchildren live in my home and I pay taxes for them to go to school. Do I pay the whole cost? Of course not! Very few people have that kind of money. My other grandchild attends school in another state and I do not pay taxes for her at all.

Kids today, yesterday and in the future attend schools paid for by all taxpayers mostly through property that they own or rent. If you have a problem with that, you need to take it up with your elected officials. You don't get to blame teachers and their union for something that every other government worker does also.

I stand by my claim that unless you pay taxes, why should you get anything not earned? I see people getting income tax refunds that exceed the amount of income taxes that my wife and I pay. I worked for my money to go to the federal government. I did not pay taxes so it could be turned right around and given to a high school dropout who just dropped their 3rd kid at the age of 19.

I took you by the hand and walked you right into the double standard hypocrisy buzz saw. I should pay teachers salaries, benefits, and pensions to educate other peoples kids when I have no kids that's okay because society as a whole benefits. But giving poor working families the increase in the child tax credit to help them raise and educate their kids that's not worthy? You get the credit is for kids right? Is that not also benefiting society as a whole? Holy hypocrisy bat man.

Getting extra money from my pocket does not help them raise and educate their kids. That is their responsibility. I already pay for their education, breakfast, lunch and sometimes dinner at school. Yet they draw SNAP also?

LOL I'll remember that the next time teachers ask me for a levy increase.

You don't think schools have to be repaired and replaced, new teachers hired for more students, and more technology for use in the classrooms? It figure that you are completely clueless as to how things work in the real world.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Here it another excerpt that changes what he said-

“[L]et me tell you something: we’re going to do CHIP. There’s no question about it in my mind. It’s got to be done the right way. But we, the reason CHIP’s having trouble is because we don’t have money anymore.”

Yes, out of money for children. Plenty to dump into poking our military's nose into everything all over the world though.

Lots of money for tax cuts for the most profitable corporations in the world too.

Good. They will be more profitable and my retirement accounts will grow!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Hey look, the poor were left out of this tax bill FACT! The cheap bastard GOP wouldn't even extend to them the increase in the child tax credit they gave to everyone else, though some GOP senators lobbied for this.

I'm a fiscal conservative, I HATE liberals, but cutting everyone a break except the poor was retarded. We don't want the poor to remain poor HELLO for fucks sake.

The bottom 50% already don't pay income taxes. I think that's good, but it does point out why they can't get a tax cut...they already don't pay income taxes.

Do you want the bottom 50% to climb the ladder and start paying income taxes? My fellow conservatives, you will catch up to me sooner or later.

How is giving them money they did not earn helping them to climb the ladder?

Let's just start giving away lottery money if people don't even buy a ticket!

 

[TheOldSchool]

Here it another excerpt that changes what he said-

“[L]et me tell you something: we’re going to do CHIP. There’s no question about it in my mind. It’s got to be done the right way. But we, the reason CHIP’s having trouble is because we don’t have money anymore.”

Yes, out of money for children. Plenty to dump into poking our military's nose into everything all over the world though.

Lots of money for tax cuts for the most profitable corporations in the world too.

Good. They will be more profitable and my retirement accounts will grow!

Gobble up those scraps, peasant

 

[Borillar]

Do you understand, they will be getting a standard deduction double what they had previously? And you really aren’t worried about the poor, as you wish not to pay property taxes so their children can be educated. You really surprise me, here. Better to run for the school board and try to change things there, rather than make an idiotic tie of the child tax credit and your having to pay school taxes.

Everyone received an increase to the standard deduction, I'm questioning why the GOP excluded millions of low income families from the child tax credit increase when everyone else up to $500k in income received this credit? Are we trying to punish low income families because that's the exact opposite of what president Trump promised them during the campaign isn't it. Dem's say we don't give a crap about the poor and this gifts them a prime example. Look are we going to drink our own koolaid or not?

huh? when did the poor file income tax?

The working poor file income tax returns every year.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Do you understand, they will be getting a standard deduction double what they had previously? And you really aren’t worried about the poor, as you wish not to pay property taxes so their children can be educated. You really surprise me, here. Better to run for the school board and try to change things there, rather than make an idiotic tie of the child tax credit and your having to pay school taxes.

Everyone received an increase to the standard deduction, I'm questioning why the GOP excluded millions of low income families from the child tax credit increase when everyone else up to $500k in income received this credit? Are we trying to punish low income families because that's the exact opposite of what president Trump promised them during the campaign isn't it. Dem's say we don't give a crap about the poor and this gifts them a prime example. Look are we going to drink our own koolaid or not?

huh? when did the poor file income tax?

The working poor file income tax returns every year.

Wrong again liberal breath!

If they fill out their W-4 form as exempt, no tax gets taken out, so they have no reason to file.

Have a nice day!

 

[depotoo]

Well, not exactly.

You must file a federal income tax return if your income is above a certain level; which varies depending on your filing status, age and the type of income you receive. ... You can also use the Interactive Tax Assistant available on the IRS website to determine if you need to file a tax return.

Do you understand, they will be getting a standard deduction double what they had previously? And you really aren’t worried about the poor, as you wish not to pay property taxes so their children can be educated. You really surprise me, here. Better to run for the school board and try to change things there, rather than make an idiotic tie of the child tax credit and your having to pay school taxes.

Everyone received an increase to the standard deduction, I'm questioning why the GOP excluded millions of low income families from the child tax credit increase when everyone else up to $500k in income received this credit? Are we trying to punish low income families because that's the exact opposite of what president Trump promised them during the campaign isn't it. Dem's say we don't give a crap about the poor and this gifts them a prime example. Look are we going to drink our own koolaid or not?

huh? when did the poor file income tax?

The working poor file income tax returns every year.