Serious Bible question for those in the know

[Book of Jeremiah]

Some intelligent and very thought provoking posts.

I'm glad I came back to read them but I must say, "you" have left me with many more questions.

Ask away. There is a reason for your curiosity. You are exercising your free will.

I take it you didn't read the entire thread.

He might not have but I did. Let me just say this, Luddly. If you ever want to talk, ask a question, vent, let off steam - whatever you are free to email me on USMB or write a post. I'll be happy to write back.

There is one scripture that keeps coming to my mind concerning you and if it makes sense fine if it doesn't it will later on I believe.. it is the scripture where God says, Draw nigh unto me and I will draw nigh unto you. That is what I believe God wants you to know, that when you draw near to him he is going to draw near to you. He isn't going to crowd you, pressure you, coerce you but when you take a baby step towards him you'll see him coming towards you by the same measure. Have a nice evening.

- Jeremiah

 

[Quantum Windbag]

the existence of a "devil" or "angels": are they real? are they mentioned in the Bible and what do they mean, what do they refer too as symbols in myth?

The early Christians debated this and what you will most likely get is answers from the great unwashed, the ignorati, the Bible thumpers, on what they 'read' in the Bible. Take the Bible out of the context of early church history and you get an ignorant Christian religion no different in ignorance than the ignorance of those who hijack Islam for terrorism. They are all ignorant.

Desert Fathers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Church Fathers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Doctor of the Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You will get answers

Because Dante is an expert in everything, except Dante forgot to mention that Jewish scholars have been debating these things for far longer than the Christians, which implies that Dante does not know everything.

Except if QuanticuckooDooshbagh had read what he comments on he'd see Dante specifically addressed the Christian Bible

Dante doesn't know most of the Bible was written by Jews.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why would someone want to join a group that tells them they aren't good enough?

God loves us all, He also would like us to take care of each other.

You become "good enough" when you follow the 10 Commandments and take care of the planet and your fellow humans.

It is impossible to follow the 10 Commandments.

How is it impossible to follow the 10 commandments? It seems like a pretty simple act to do. Most just dont do it.

Romans 5.

 

[Avatar4321]

And you think you do?

That's arrogant, considering the actual knowledge on the subject.

I know that it isn't at all as he describes it. Do I know every detail? But that doesn't mean I don't know anything.

God can reveal what He wants to whom He wants. We could all know more than we currently do if we humbled ourselves before Him and sought the knowledge.

 

[Avatar4321]

It is impossible to follow the 10 Commandments.

How is it impossible to follow the 10 commandments? It seems like a pretty simple act to do. Most just dont do it.

Romans 5.

The Law is more than just the 10 commandments.

God doesnt give us a commandment without providing a way for us to fulfill them.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

God created us, with our having free will, so that if we choose not to believe all the third hand testamoney about him, then he will condmn us to everlasting hell and torment....but he loves us!!!!!!

It is a difficult concept for me to grasp. If my daughter did not treat me with respect, I grounded her a week, and took away her computer. She would have to have been a good deal more than disrespectful for me to condemn her to everlasting hell and torment.

First, I've given you first hand testimony about Him. So have the scriptures.

Second, You don't understand the afterlife. Not surprising since much of the Christian world does likewise. God has ensured you are going to be immortal. You will rise in the resurrection. Either the resurrection of the just, or the resurrection of the unjust.

Third, we make our own choice to be in torment. Torment is the natural consequence of the actions of the wicked. Wickedness never was happiness. It can never be happiness. The fullness of joy only comes through living the principles of the plans of happiness. Forgiveness, patience, love, humility, honesty, integrity, sacrifice, diligence, godliness, etc.

Those attributes are impossible to develop without the Atonement. Because our past imperfections would limit them. It's the Atonement that allows us to choose good.

In my own experience I have found Atonement at the cross EMPOWERED me to choose good whereas before I could not choose good because I was living in darkness. Jesus death at the cross ( and resurrection ) is what has made it possible for me to start fresh, his death for my new life, it is the exchange life. His life for mine. Now I exchange my life for his. That is the miracle of redemption. You really are brand new.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Major portions of the "Sermon on the mount, have been found in texts far preceeding the brith of Christ.

"Moreover, the Sermon on the Mount - supposedly the original monologue straight out of the mouth of the Son of God Himself - can be shown to be a series of Old Testament scriptures strung together, along with, apparently, such texts from Qumran. No "historical" founder was necessary at all to speak these words, as they are a rehash of extant sayings. (Even in this patent literary device the gospels cannot agree, as Luke 6:17-49 depicts the Sermon as having taken place on a plain.)"

Dead Sea Scrolls prove Bible unoriginal

Another expert graces us with his knowledge. Instead of making vague allegations why don't you point out exactly where the Sermon on the Mount is in the Dead Sea Scrolls? I even have a link to all of them posted online to make it easier for you.

Digital Dead Sea Scrolls

Right, let me say something about dead sea scrolls and all the other discoveries - many which have are purposely being misinterpreted, words added or taken away from certain alleged prophecies ect that claim to make the bible a fictional piece of work. The bible is the most accurate book of antiquity upon the earth today. Were you to contact Josh McDowell about his book Evidence that demands a verdict he would walk you through the very earliest discoveries of evidence and show you the evidence is so overwhelming that it has actually converted atheist scientists, scholars, people from every walk of life. In fact it would be a great idea to purchase the book and read it.

People must understand that there is a major shift happening in the realm of religion concerning the United Nations, new laws, in Europe for instance if you were to lead someone to Christ and someone overheard you mention they were saved from hell - eternal separation from God, the person would have a case in court for terrorism because you created terror in their heart in telling them that they were in danger of hell before. This is the law in Europe I am told now. If you were to be told by a Muslim on camera in Britain that unless you convert to Islam you will be in hell forever that would not be the same case. That person would not be jailed. The religion of Islam is exempt from these UN inspired laws. Many have been stating they believe Islam is the religion of the anti christ. I do not believe this is true. I believe the religion of interfaithism that melds all religions as one is probably more likely and with it the only one who will be excluded completely will be the Christian because we cannot pray in the name of muhammad, hari krishna, buddah, or any other name but the name of Jesus. So I think we'll see more of these new "discoveries" in the future and must remind people the bible says in the end times that is going to happen. The best way not to be deceived is to not listen to those who are! If they cannot prove it by the Word of God its a lie anyhow. - Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I think the one I am thinking about is the book of Enoch? I have never read it, do not intend to. Just mentioning that I never read any of these new discoveries or get involved with it. The bible as it is today is what the God of heaven and earth found pleasing to give to us and it is enough for me.

 

[Avatar4321]

In my own experience I have found Atonement at the cross EMPOWERED me to choose good whereas before I could not choose good because I was living in darkness. Jesus death at the cross ( and resurrection ) is what has made it possible for me to start fresh, his death for my new life, it is the exchange life. His life for mine. Now I exchange my life for his. That is the miracle of redemption. You really are brand new.

It does empower us to do good. It's through the Atonement that addictions can be broken and Holiness can be obtained.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

And you think you do?

That's arrogant, considering the actual knowledge on the subject.

I know that it isn't at all as he describes it. Do I know every detail? But that doesn't mean I don't know anything.

God can reveal what He wants to whom He wants. We could all know more than we currently do if we humbled ourselves before Him and sought the knowledge.

You know how God reveals Himself and His Word fastest? Through obedience. Its true. So many think it is through study but it isn't. I have obeyed God before and received more in 5 minutes than a bible scholar was studying to get a revelation on in a lifetime. ( and still didn't receive! ) It is all about obedience. Obedience is true worship. Those who worship the Father worship him in spirit and truth Jesus said. That is living in the spirit and walking in the truth. ( light of the Word ) I believe the reason obedience opens so many doors is because it is true surrender of your own will to His. If you are willing to do His Will you shall know it... John 7: 17 Jesus said. To obey you must also TRUST. Sometimes it is interesting to find out just how little you trust him when you were so sure you trusted him completely. If we knew what some of these trials were actually doing for us we'd be begging for more. Imagine that one if you will. - Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Thank you, Jeremiah but this is obviously not the place to ask serious questions.

I doubt that anyone is doing much thinking. There is just so much anger and dishonesty and bitterness among the Christians who have posted in this thread. I don't now why they're so unhappy but I do know I want no part of any of it. Reading here has has made me remember parts of my childhood that I would prefer to forget.

I'm better off out of it.

You need to be good to yourself, relax, rest your mind, let some healing take place inside... honest to God when I came to Christ I was homeless and staying at a Christians house until I found a place as my life was totally upside down. I overheard them talking about me - that I needed to find a better job than the one I had and so forth. It was devastating. I was doing all I could do to even learn what was going on and I was a single parent to boot!

I did manage to get my own place but I never got over the disappointment of hearing those two christians talking about me! It was terrible and I was deeply hurt and confused as to how they could do such a thing. I left their church and I didn't return to visit another church for 12 years. I just stayed home and read my bible and christian books. Eventually I returned to attending church but I figured if Christians do such things I would prefer to seek God on my own. Today? lol... nothing surprises me, Luddley. NOTHING.

Remember this though. Jesus said to allow the wheat and the tares to grow together so the wheat would not be harmed. Tares are poisonous. Did you know that? They are and they look identical to wheat in a large field. Do you know how you can tell a tare from the wheat in a field? Watch when the wind blows. The wheat will bow down. The tares do not bow down but stand straight up which is indicative of the stiff necked nature of a tare. Just thought I should throw that in. Not everyone you meet who tells you they are a christian is one. - Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

God created us, with our having free will, so that if we choose not to believe all the third hand testamoney about him, then he will condmn us to everlasting hell and torment....but he loves us!!!!!!

It is a difficult concept for me to grasp. If my daughter did not treat me with respect, I grounded her a week, and took away her computer. She would have to have been a good deal more than disrespectful for me to condemn her to everlasting hell and torment.

That is as unoriginal an argument against the existence of God has ever been uttered. One would think that someone who had actually read the Dead Sea Scrolls would be able to do better.

I have never read the dead sea scrolls. As to the person with the daughter, she is his child. He will never abandon her no matter what she does. Even if he did the bible says God will never abandon us that he has engraved our names in the palm of his hand! He hasn't forgotten! He won't forget! She is his daughter. I am Gods daughter. ( I am a woman ) He is never going to abandon me and cast me away from his presence. What if I wasn't his child? What if I was the devils child and was lost out there in the world. I need God but must be brought into his family. How will this happen? Someone will pray for me. The holy spirit will send someone to talk to me about Jesus, the Holy Spirit will reveal this is the truth as he sees my heart is open to walk in that truth ( John 7:17 ) I am then led in the sinners prayer and accept Christ. I am now adopted into Gods family to become Gods child and He promises me nothing can take me out of his hand. His analogy will work if he can imagine her not being his daughter and requesting that he adopt her. Because after that? That is his daughter for life!

 

[ABikerSailor]

You aren't good enough. None of us are. That's the whole point of Christianity. If we were good enough, we wouldn't need a Savior. We wouldn't need an Atonement and Redemption.

Why would someone want to join a group that tells them they aren't good enough?

God loves us all, He also would like us to take care of each other.

You become "good enough" when you follow the 10 Commandments and take care of the planet and your fellow humans.

It is impossible to follow the 10 Commandments.

Really? It's impossible to follow the 10 Commandments?

Got news for you all......................the only really defined "sins" in the Bible are those that go against the 10 Commandments. Remember John 3:16............."For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosover believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life". Basically, that means if you follow the teachings of Jesus (Yeshua is His proper name), you will live forever (nothing said about eternal here), but if you don't, you're gonna perish.

Besides..................remember......................."the wages of sin are death".

How does this relate to keeping the 10 Commandments? Simple............it's a way to stay alive..........................

The Ten Commandments

20 And God spoke all these words:


2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Exodus 20 NIV - The Ten Commandments - And God spoke - Bible Gateway

Now..............how does this relate to keeping you alive? Simple..............let me explain..............

1. You shall have no gods before Me. If you worship something other than what created you, there may be problems. Can a Harley Davidson mechanic fix a Prius?

2. Don't worship idols or graven images. Can a piece of rock or wood, or whatever you like, REALLY help you? Only the Creator can.

3. Don't misuse the name of God. Simple actually...........would you help someone who put slander against you? Probably not............and since we don't like it when someone speaks badly of us, why would God like it if we spoke badly of Him?

4. Keep the Sabbath. Remember...............all work and no rest wears a person out. God is reminding us that we need to take a break once in a while and think about Him (or how we got ourselves into the position that we are in, for the atheists).

5. Honor thy Father and thy Mother. Well, many different cultures have told us that God is Father Sky (to use the Native American analogy), and the planet is Mother Earth, which gives rise to us all. If we don't respect the planet, how can we possibly survive?

6. You shall not murder. Pretty self evident. If you kill someone unjustly, their family will come looking for you to kill. If they die because of self defense? Well, they shouldn't have attacked in the first place, because they may have been looking to murder.

7. You shall not commit adultery. Again...........self evident...............if you go and take the love that someone (like a spouse) is supposed to give to their siginificant other, don't you think that significant other is gonna come looking for the person that made their relationship go to crap? It's a good way to keep from getting murdered.

8. You shall not steal. Self evident yet again.................if someone steals something really significant from you, wouldn't you feel like killing them (or at the least hurting them) for taking something from you?

9. You shall not give false testimony. How many of us like being lied to? And, if the lie is significant enough, wouldn't you feel like hurting them (or killing them)?

10. Don't covet your neighbor's belongings. If you think about what your neighbor has, and the fact that you don't, eventually...................if you obsess about it long enough, you're either gonna steal it (resulting in death), or kill your neighbor to get it (resulting in murder and death).

So..........................if you think about it logically, the 10 Commandments are pretty easy to keep (unless you've got a death wish), and are also good rules to follow so that a community can thrive.

 

[hortysir]

I read a few sentences of War and Peace 30 years ago......

 

[ABikerSailor]

I read a few sentences of War and Peace 30 years ago......

Sorry.............was that too much information for your 3 synapses to absorb?

I'll try to make it simpler next time.

 

[hortysir]

I read a few sentences of War and Peace 30 years ago......

Sorry.............was that too much information for your 3 synapses to absorb?

I'll try to make it simpler next time.

I was replying to the OP, dude.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I read a few sentences of War and Peace 30 years ago......

Sorry.............was that too much information for your 3 synapses to absorb?

I'll try to make it simpler next time.

I was replying to the OP, dude.

Sorry about that. Thought because your post followed mine, you were speaking to me.

 

[hortysir]

Sorry.............was that too much information for your 3 synapses to absorb?

I'll try to make it simpler next time.

I was replying to the OP, dude.

Sorry about that. Thought because your post followed mine, you were speaking to me.

Nahhh......

OP did miniscule reading on a subject 50 years ago and NOW he has a question

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I read a few sentences of War and Peace 30 years ago......

Sorry.............was that too much information for your 3 synapses to absorb?

I'll try to make it simpler next time.

It was great, I loved it! The most original reading of the 10 Commandments I have ever read! Thank you.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Because Dante is an expert in everything, except Dante forgot to mention that Jewish scholars have been debating these things for far longer than the Christians, which implies that Dante does not know everything.

Except if QuanticuckooDooshbagh had read what he comments on he'd see Dante specifically addressed the Christian Bible

Dante doesn't know most of the Bible was written by Jews.

lol. That is hysterical. Who does Dante think wrote the bibe?