"Set Up A Perimeter And Wait For S.W.A.T."

[bendog]

One AR15 bullet to an organ, explodes the organ in to smithereens....that is not the case with a pistol, most lives can be saved, even if hit in an organ like a kidney....

Where do come up with this crap?

I posted an article yesterday from a radiologist at a trauma center there in south Florida...

Let me see if I can find it for you....

This article is what solidified my position on it...

I think the word "exploding" was not really right. It might imply an exploding round. The .223 round is based upon the rifling of the barrel (the grooves on the inside of the barrel that cause the bullet to rotate when it comes out of the barrel. It "tumbles" when it strikes a target.

.223 Remington

But it would be incorrect to say that the .223 round is inherently more deadly than a .40 caliber, or .45 caliber, pistol round, or a shotgun. A rifle is easier to aim and shoot than a handgun, and I'm not aware of a handgun having a 30 round capacity. A shotgun is harder to reload as well. If you're planning to kill coyotes, or even antelope, or commit a mass killing, the .223 semiauto rifle would probably be the tool of choice. Supposedly it can be used for home defense too. Not too good for concealed carry, or even just having it in a holster so you're hands are free.

 

[iceberg]

One AR15 bullet to an organ, explodes the organ in to smithereens....that is not the case with a pistol, most lives can be saved, even if hit in an organ like a kidney....

Where do come up with this crap?

I posted an article yesterday from a radiologist at a trauma center there in south Florida...

Let me see if I can find it for you....

This article is what solidified my position on it...

do more research than finding an article you like and going THERE.

 

[Desperado]

Oh, and "establish a staging area" in case somebody wants to go rogue and run inside to kill the target. These tactics are all well and good for a military operation against an equal opposing force, but ridiculous against a lone teenager shooting up a school. But wait, maybe there's two shooters like Columbine....and? Are they trained to work in tandem? uh, no, and that's why you have a 9mm with a 17 round magazine. The "amazing leader" Sheriff Scott Israel thinks that's what his coward deputy may have radioed to other Broward County deputies while he aimed his own weapon at nothing hiding behind a cement pillar outside the school. Apparently Israel thinks telling Jake Tapper that in a CNN interview enables him to pin the entire fiasco on Deputy Peterson. But Tapper disclosed that was Israel's chosen tactic following the Ft. Lauderdale airport shooting. So instead of forming a skirmish group and advancing inside like the Coral Springs police did when they arrived, they wait. Those officers were shocked the Broward County deputies even with added force, didn't go in with them. The standard cop saying to the guy in cuffs: "I'm going home tonight and you're not" this time applies to 17 dead kids and another 14 grievously wounded kids...they went to the ER and the morgue. Meanwhile Sheriff Scott Isreal plays CYA...I wonder who he learned that from?

It was reported a couple of days back that Coral Gables police arrived on scene and were told by deputies to join the perimeter.

Coral Gables reportedly told the deputies to get the fuck out of the way.

That would be the Coral Springs Police not the Coral Gables Police

 

[Care4all]

I think the word "exploding" was not really right. It might imply an exploding round.

ty... I used the wrong word, but the effect, the fatal effect, is the same.....


I was looking at a CT scan of one of the victims of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, with extensive bleeding. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?

The reaction in the emergency room was the same. One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semi-automatic rifle which delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim. There was nothing left to repair, and utterly, devastatingly, nothing that could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal.

A year ago, when a gunman opened fire at the Fort Lauderdale airport with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun, hitting 11 people in 90 seconds, I was also on call. It was not until I had diagnosed the third of the six victims who were transported to the trauma center that I realized something out-of-the-ordinary must have happened. The gunshot wounds were the same low velocity handgun injuries as those I diagnose every day; only their rapid succession set them apart. And all six of the victims who arrived at the hospital that day survived.

Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim's body that are roughly the size of the bullet. If the bullet does not directly hit something crucial like the heart or the aorta, and they do not bleed to death before being transported to our care at a trauma center, chances are, we can save the victim.

The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different; they travel at higher velocity and are far more lethal. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than, and imparting more than three times the energy of, a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun. An AR-15 rifle outfitted with a magazine with 50 rounds allows many more lethal bullets to be delivered quickly without reloading.

 

[Care4all]

One AR15 bullet to an organ, explodes the organ in to smithereens....that is not the case with a pistol, most lives can be saved, even if hit in an organ like a kidney....

Where do come up with this crap?

I posted an article yesterday from a radiologist at a trauma center there in south Florida...

Let me see if I can find it for you....

This article is what solidified my position on it...

do more research than finding an article you like and going THERE.

i'd be happy to read any article that you can provide by a another trauma center doctor that refutes it...

 

[bendog]

I think the word "exploding" was not really right. It might imply an exploding round.

ty... I used the wrong word, but the effect, the fatal effect, is the same.....


I was looking at a CT scan of one of the victims of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, with extensive bleeding. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?

The reaction in the emergency room was the same. One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semi-automatic rifle which delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim. There was nothing left to repair, and utterly, devastatingly, nothing that could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal.

A year ago, when a gunman opened fire at the Fort Lauderdale airport with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun, hitting 11 people in 90 seconds, I was also on call. It was not until I had diagnosed the third of the six victims who were transported to the trauma center that I realized something out-of-the-ordinary must have happened. The gunshot wounds were the same low velocity handgun injuries as those I diagnose every day; only their rapid succession set them apart. And all six of the victims who arrived at the hospital that day survived.

Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim's body that are roughly the size of the bullet. If the bullet does not directly hit something crucial like the heart or the aorta, and they do not bleed to death before being transported to our care at a trauma center, chances are, we can save the victim.

The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different; they travel at higher velocity and are far more lethal. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than, and imparting more than three times the energy of, a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun. An AR-15 rifle outfitted with a magazine with 50 rounds allows many more lethal bullets to be delivered quickly without reloading.

I believe that's correct. Year's ago, during Bill Clinton's attempt to ban high capacity magazines, I switched from a revolver to a 9mm hand gun. I asked a former cop who worked in my bldging 'do I need one of these 'assault rifles?'" He said "not unless the big riot is coming." LOL A .12 guage 3 inch buckshot shell is more lethal than a .223 in a home environment, but the .223 in infinitely less painful to shoot.

But for a mass killing, the .223 rifle's the way to go. But that doesn't mean it has no legal use too.

edit: And I would not like to have to choose between being shot with a .45 handgun or a .223. rifle at short range.

 

[iceberg]

One AR15 bullet to an organ, explodes the organ in to smithereens....that is not the case with a pistol, most lives can be saved, even if hit in an organ like a kidney....

Where do come up with this crap?

I posted an article yesterday from a radiologist at a trauma center there in south Florida...

Let me see if I can find it for you....

This article is what solidified my position on it...

do more research than finding an article you like and going THERE.

i'd be happy to read any article that you can provide by a another trauma center doctor that refutes it...

so we only accept ballistics reports from doctors now.

makes sense as the NRA performs surgery all the time.

 

[Care4all]

One AR15 bullet to an organ, explodes the organ in to smithereens....that is not the case with a pistol, most lives can be saved, even if hit in an organ like a kidney....

Where do come up with this crap?

I posted an article yesterday from a radiologist at a trauma center there in south Florida...

Let me see if I can find it for you....

This article is what solidified my position on it...

do more research than finding an article you like and going THERE.

i'd be happy to read any article that you can provide by a another trauma center doctor that refutes it...

so we only accept ballistics reports from doctors now.

makes sense as the NRA performs surgery all the time.

then what was your comment to my post for iceberg?

 

[bendog]

One AR15 bullet to an organ, explodes the organ in to smithereens....that is not the case with a pistol, most lives can be saved, even if hit in an organ like a kidney....

Where do come up with this crap?

I posted an article yesterday from a radiologist at a trauma center there in south Florida...

Let me see if I can find it for you....

This article is what solidified my position on it...

do more research than finding an article you like and going THERE.

i'd be happy to read any article that you can provide by a another trauma center doctor that refutes it...

so we only accept ballistics reports from doctors now.

makes sense as the NRA performs surgery all the time.

Come on. You're being disingenuous now. There's no disputing the ballistic characteristics of a .223 FMJ on "midsize game." Is the .223 more damaging than it's predecessor the .308? Probably not, but I haven't read any studies and don't plan on doing my own. Still, there's a reason the US military went to the .223 for a weapon lethal and easy to train civilians who don't come from hunting backgrounds like they did in the first half of the last century.

 

[iceberg]

Where do come up with this crap?

I posted an article yesterday from a radiologist at a trauma center there in south Florida...

Let me see if I can find it for you....

This article is what solidified my position on it...

do more research than finding an article you like and going THERE.

i'd be happy to read any article that you can provide by a another trauma center doctor that refutes it...

so we only accept ballistics reports from doctors now.

makes sense as the NRA performs surgery all the time.

then what was your comment to my post for iceberg?

just pointing out that getting ballistics from a doctor seems more to be done to make you feel better about your "decision" in all this .vs researching ballistics and talking to the experts of said weapons.

 

[iceberg]

Where do come up with this crap?

I posted an article yesterday from a radiologist at a trauma center there in south Florida...

Let me see if I can find it for you....

This article is what solidified my position on it...

do more research than finding an article you like and going THERE.

i'd be happy to read any article that you can provide by a another trauma center doctor that refutes it...

so we only accept ballistics reports from doctors now.

makes sense as the NRA performs surgery all the time.

Come on. You're being disingenuous now. There's no disputing the ballistic characteristics of a .223 FMJ on "midsize game." Is the .223 more damaging than it's predecessor the .308? Probably not, but I haven't read any studies and don't plan on doing my own. Still, there's a reason the US military went to the .223 for a weapon lethal and easy to train civilians who don't come from hunting backgrounds like they did in the first half of the last century.

not discrediting that, just saying getting ballistics from a doctor isn't exactly precise research. it would be like me getting medical opinions from the NRA.

when i see people pidgeonhole where they get their info from in order to make their final decisions, i just question is they were looking for something to validate how they felt, or looking for honest info on things.

 

[Moonglow]

Guys, the police were probably just in fear for their lives. That excuse covers anything.

You know damn good and well that cops only shoot people that are unarmed...Don't you forget it....

 

[bendog]

I posted an article yesterday from a radiologist at a trauma center there in south Florida...

Let me see if I can find it for you....

This article is what solidified my position on it...

do more research than finding an article you like and going THERE.

i'd be happy to read any article that you can provide by a another trauma center doctor that refutes it...

so we only accept ballistics reports from doctors now.

makes sense as the NRA performs surgery all the time.

Come on. You're being disingenuous now. There's no disputing the ballistic characteristics of a .223 FMJ on "midsize game." Is the .223 more damaging than it's predecessor the .308? Probably not, but I haven't read any studies and don't plan on doing my own. Still, there's a reason the US military went to the .223 for a weapon lethal and easy to train civilians who don't come from hunting backgrounds like they did in the first half of the last century.

not discrediting that, just saying getting ballistics from a doctor isn't exactly precise research. it would be like me getting medical opinions from the NRA.

when i see people pidgeonhole where they get their info from in order to make their final decisions, i just question is they were looking for something to validate how they felt, or looking for honest info on things.

Yeah. I think the danger is misleading people into thinking the .223 is something it's not, so as to justify an "assault weapons ban." It's a lightweight bullet so soldiers can carry a lot, that is amazingly easy to shoot. A ban doesn't really work positives, because in the end, there are all kinds of ammunition and bullet weights and types. You end up with "magazine restrictions." And in the end, there's just not much improvement in the safety of kids.

It's the go to gun for mass shootings. The civilian M-14 is a lot more expensive, and harder to shoot, but you can probably take out cop cars. And the handy dandy pump 12 guage available for around 250 and under will give you about 54 .380 round balls without reloading. And neither is much use in chasing varmits off your farm or horse pasture.

 

[Rexx Taylor]

Guys, the police were probably just in fear for their lives. That excuse covers anything.

You know damn good and well that cops only shoot people that are unarmed...Don't you forget it....

too bad arnold and bruce willis werent there on the 14th. then no one would of been shot

 

[Moonglow]

Guys, the police were probably just in fear for their lives. That excuse covers anything.

You know damn good and well that cops only shoot people that are unarmed...Don't you forget it....

too bad arnold and bruce willis werent there on the 14th. then no one would of been shot

I think we should send in a time traveler...

 

[Rexx Taylor]

Guys, the police were probably just in fear for their lives. That excuse covers anything.

You know damn good and well that cops only shoot people that are unarmed...Don't you forget it....

too bad arnold and bruce willis werent there on the 14th. then no one would of been shot

I think we should send in a time traveler...

like Mr Spock?

 

[Moonglow]

Guys, the police were probably just in fear for their lives. That excuse covers anything.

You know damn good and well that cops only shoot people that are unarmed...Don't you forget it....

too bad arnold and bruce willis werent there on the 14th. then no one would of been shot

I think we should send in a time traveler...

like Mr Spock?

That's Ambassador Spock to you...

 

[Rexx Taylor]

Guys, the police were probably just in fear for their lives. That excuse covers anything.

You know damn good and well that cops only shoot people that are unarmed...Don't you forget it....

too bad arnold and bruce willis werent there on the 14th. then no one would of been shot

I think we should send in a time traveler...

like Mr Spock?

That's Ambassador Spock to you...

what about John Wayne,,,im sure he would of made sure that loonatic would of never got the chance to shoot one bullet

 

[Moonglow]

You know damn good and well that cops only shoot people that are unarmed...Don't you forget it....

too bad arnold and bruce willis werent there on the 14th. then no one would of been shot

I think we should send in a time traveler...

like Mr Spock?

That's Ambassador Spock to you...

what about John Wayne,,,im sure he would of made sure that loonatic would of never got the chance to shoot one bullet

After a lung transplant...and a hold on the action while he caught his breathe..

 

[Rexx Taylor]

actually

too bad arnold and bruce willis werent there on the 14th. then no one would of been shot

I think we should send in a time traveler...

like Mr Spock?

That's Ambassador Spock to you...

what about John Wayne,,,im sure he would of made sure that loonatic would of never got the chance to shoot one bullet

After a lung transplant...and a hold on the action while he caught his breathe..

I also wish Clint Eastwood was there,,just hiding behind a near by locker,,,i think we all know what he would of said to the shooter as he wound up on his knees