2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
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I only spoke in favor of carry permits, issued by states after training, certification and background check as a safety issue, as safety is often enhanced by training. I have mine and have had for years. Nobody spoke about de-funding cop. Certainly not in my town.I am just not as paranoid as you over the 2nd amendment. The key statement was in your first line "people legally carry guns in public...". We just disagree about what should be considered legal and whether there should be any regulations regarding weapons at all. Your number 19.4 legally carrying in public sounds dubius and I could not locate a sources for it. Equilly or more dubius is the Washington Post number, I saw of 3 million. I suspect the number is in between those two. Here is an interesting number for you. In the year 1800 there were 5,308,483 counted in the census of the United State. Here is a fact to go along with it. As numbers climbed to the 330,000,000 plus of today it has become necessary for the common good to increase regulation in just about everything to avoid chaos and create a society that works for the whole population. In my opinion, rolling gun regulation back to 1790 standards is ludicrous, beyond rational thought.Got no problem with "right to keep and bear arms" and not debating what a "well regulated militia" is, but gun nuts do not believe in any intelligent regulation at all and that is wrong, makes no sense, gives responsible gun owners a bad name and does away with "well regulated" in any way shape form or fashion. Yesterday some sex addict shot up 3 different whorehouses in Georgia. Today some depressed nut ball from Texas brought all his guns to Washington and got arrested outside what he thought was the home of the Vice President. His mother said he had been depress and phoned to say he was in Washington and going to solve his problems. Would proper licensing solve all that? No. It might help the idiot factor though, having to at least sit a professionally instructed class, take tests of safety and operation before a certified instructor. I say, in your home for personal defense keep anything you want. I do and always have, but some people are a danger to themselves and everybody around them, and should not have them on the street. Everybody free to carry anything they want, just about anywhere they want is in no way well regulated, and your position is poor people may not be able to pay for training and getting a license doesn't make sense. These weapons today are not flint locks or even 6 shooter and this ain't the old west. Wait til you see the hill billy militia guys swaggering around on a range (if you can call it that) with mac 10s dangling with full clips until they line up and start shooting at sticks of dynamite on a berm 40 feet away and walking around drinking beer between rounds. People like them, with no respect for their fire power or safety and you who will indulge any carry anytime by anyone as some sacred right make us all look bad.I have no problem with people carrying guns. I carry mine, of course I am trained, qualified and licensed. I am just not in favor of every idiot in America carrying one with no training, no knowledge of applicable law, and no certification. If your were ever on a unregulated shooting range, you wouldn't either. I've seen military people that didn't need to be carrying one for their own good and the good of everybody in the chow hall or near the sand barrel.I have seen too many idiots with guns.After an appropriate training course and licensing, naturally.Sex workers should carry firearms.
No reason for a license. Get as much training as you can afford in time and money...no mandate.
And yet with 600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people able to carry guns in public for self defense........accidental gun deaths have been going down, not up......and before the democrats decided to destroy the police, violent crime was going down, not up....
I agree....but......any licensing, will become a ban by other means.....the requirements will become impossible to meet for anyone who isn't rich or well connected...this is how they do it in Britain for the few hunting shotguns they allow people to own....as well as on the continent...
Sorry.....not supporting a restriction on a Right like that...
600 million guns in private hands......over 19.4 million people legally carry guns in public...
One guy broke the law.....all the laws regarding guns, and murdered people......
Meanwhile, the other 600 million guns were not used to murder anyone, and the 19.4 million people who carry their guns legally did not murder anyone.
You have no rational argument for what you want......we have a history of governments using massive regulations to prevent people who have the legal Right to own and carry guns from being able to own and carry guns...
You are wrong......that is just a fact.
And before the democrats decided to make war on our police.....27 years of more people owning and carrying guns and what was the impact on those things you fear?
49% reduction in gun murder.
75% reduction in gun crime.
72% reduction in violent crime in general.
You have no rational argument for the policies that we know will result in the government barring people from owning and carrying guns.
Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...
New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%
Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
From the CDC.....
Accidental Gun deaths...
1999.....824
2000.....776
2001.....802
2002.....762
2003.....730
2004.....649
2005.....789
2006.....642
2007.....613
2008.....592
2009.....554
2010.....606
2011.....591
2012.....548
2013.....505
2014.....461
2015.....489
2016.....495
2017.....486
2018.....458
2019.....486
If looking for how many weapons injuries, it seems everybody is more interested in weapons deaths annually. Available numbers are large, unless compared to the number legally carrying. I am confident the number of accidental shootings, including accidental deaths could be reduced with proper training. Unlike you, I feel it is worth the inconvenience to reduce weapons accidents, and training would (not might) reduce that number.
For all your, numbers, bits of info you try to string together to support your cause, I suspect you went to the trouble of getting your own carry permit and are (like myself) a licensed carry permit holder. It is not the people like you and I that concern me. We are unlikely to be involve in an accidental or illegal shooting situation, as all the permit holders, I know are very serious people, as opposed to the people I have personally witnessed. As someone trained not only on weapons, but in the field of safety itself, you will never be able to convince me, proper training does not make any complex operation safer for all concerned, and therefore unnecessary and certainly not regarding weapons. Trying to wrap the flag around your concept only works on the simple minded.
There are already regulations on gun ownership and it isn't doing any good. Putting more regulations on gun ownership doesn't seem like the answer.
The answer is to get the criminals off the street and use the death penalty more. Defunding the police forces certainly isn't a solution. That's just plain moronic.
Im all for training, as long as it's free. I'm opposed to permits.
Yep....I want people to get as much training as their time and money allows....but will fight any attempt to make it mandatory......since that is how anti-gunners will prevent people from owning and carrying guns.
