Should America have just allowed the vietcong to overrun the Southern Vietnam?

[Tuatara]

This has been a common sentiment shared by many dating back to the inception of this country. It is a common sentiment dating back to ancient times.

There is more than one reason why conflicts do happen and why it is not prudent just to abandon our allies etc.

Even if the allies are wrong? Completely wrong?

The most popular example of appeasement is the one that we always bring up. It is the reason why the League of Nations was dissolved and the reason why we had to deal with what had to deal with in hitler. We saw the price of not getting involved and the price the world pays for ignoring the rise of a tyrant.

But in the case of Vietnam, France, The US and to a smaller degree Britain were the tyrants. In the US they worship the people who fought against the colonialism of British Rule. When other countries do the exact same thing you simply charge them as communists to vindicate any slaughter against them. After WW2 The US, France and Britain do not recognize the Republic of Vietnam. Instead France send troops in. Ho Chi Mihn allows the troops in providing they recognize their independence. The French break down the negoiations and install a puppet government in the South. Ho Chi Mihn gets no support from France and their allies but support then in turn comes from China and the USSR.

The point of this thread was not about whether or not we should have been involved in Vietnam.

The title of the thread is about letting the Vietcong overrun the South, which is a ridiculous premise. The border between the 2 Vietnam's was drawn by France. It's not like everyone living north of the border were communists and everyone living south of the border were allies of the west. Most of the people on both sides were fighting for independence

It is what offended the left wingers. Not the PAWNS mind you. You know, the Hanoi Janes or the pot head college students thinking they were all on the side of "peace."

No, this is about what offended those communists that had clearly infiltrated the deepest parts of our government and our entertainment industry. Those elements in THIS COUNTRY were offended by US preventing the spread of the tyrannical communist expansion.

It was not a tyrannical communist expansion. The allies left no choice for the North Vietnamese to deal with anyone but the Communists. During WW2 the allies worked with the communists. Both France and Britain had communists serving in their government. Ho Ch Mihn was a well educated person who studied various political and economic strategies. His Declaration of Independence was a copy of the United States.

Why? CAUSE THEY WERE COMMUNISTS. THEY ARE COMMUNISTS. McCarthy btw was shown that he was actually quite vindicated in his level of paranoia.

Thet were forced to deal with communists because the west wouldn't recognize their state and the west was too busy trying to run their country.

That was proven by testimony by EX KGB agents in the Venona Papers. It was very much understood long before McCarthy came into the picture. The infiltration dates back to the 30s or even before. Turn of the century really.

To many countries the world communist didn't mean the big scary bogeyman like it does to the US. Their were definitely elements of communism in the early stages of Vietnam's independence. We know Ho Chi Mihn studied in China and the USSR. But he also studied in Britain, France and the US.

The inception of the ACLU founded by Roger Baldwin who was a staunch communist. Influenced by the likes of the Emma Goldmans of the world.

What does this have to do with Vietnam.

What we are seeing now is the full CHANGE of our government and our paradigm into full blown MARXISM. The march of the world into a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT under the guise of "SOCIALISM." Pure socialism IS COMMUNISM.

No you are not. Every government in the world has various aspects of socialism. Socialism is not Communism. Rabid paranoia and completely not understanding political and social-economic labels is the only thing you have achieved in these post.

The point is what we see from the Vietnam conflict. AMERICA IS BLAMED by those elements. They never ever bring up the barbarism of the communists as they raged across the land. They certainly hardly ever bring up the GENOCIDE committed by these murderous regimes.

Why do you suppose they are so quick to BLAME AMERICA and hardly say a PEEP about the mass murders?

Well for one thing you keep getting everyone mixed up. You will first talk about the Vietcong and the switch to the Khmer Rouge and the drop of a hat as if they were the same thing. May I suggest you actually read the history on how the Vietnam war started. Go back even before WW2. There is no living intelligent human that believes the US & France were not at complete fault for the lives lost during the Vietnam war.

Holy shit.

Stalin was the innocent one? The vietcong were actually good people and America and South Vietnam were the tyrants?

This piece of unreal shit just keeps proving me right.

I am telling you all right now folks. The left wing in this are bloated arrogant morons and it very dangerous.

You can just ignore these psychos; they aren't to be taken seriously at all. They'll go away if they can't get any attention for their venal idiocy and ignorant tropes.

C'mon Picro, try me. Point out anything wrong I posted.

 

[HenryBHough]

Ya, because Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy didn't understand war, is that what you are saying?

They might once have understood war - thoroughly. But, once president, they forgot (if they ever knew) that wars are for winning, not just for bleeding America dry.

 

[Camp]

Ya, because Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy didn't understand war, is that what you are saying?

They might once have understood war - thoroughly. But, once president, they forgot (if they ever knew) that wars are for winning, not just for bleeding America dry.

They understood they were attempting to restrict war and minimize it with the hopes that little wars could prevent a World War such as they had lived through.

 

[guno]

[

The domino theory was right and we should have gone in and won the war. However, it would have been better to have stayed out of it than to do it the way we did

Indeed,they were never trying to win it,they had their hands tied.

Yep. I come from a military family and military community. One family friend was a pilot. He would fly over factories making weapons to kill Americans and if he had fired one shot at them would have been court marshaled, it killed him to not be able to do that.

Johnson turned the war into his economic policy

It was a civil war gotten into with the phony gulf of tonkin "incident", fast forward: over 58,000 Americans used for cannon fodder, hundreds of thousands Vietnamese dead. Now we have diplomatic relations , have trade and are going to have joint military exercises



The Gulf of Tonkin incident (Vietnamese: Sự kiện Vịnh Bắc Bộ), also known as the USS Maddox incident, involved what were originally claimed to be two separate confrontations involving North Vietnam and the United States in the waters of the Gulf of Tonkin. The original American report blamed North Vietnam for both incidents, but eventually became very controversial with widespread claims that either one or both incidents were false, and possibly purposefully so. On August 2, 1964, the destroyer USS Maddox, while performing a signals intelligence patrol as part of DESOTO operations, was pursued by three North Vietnamese Navy torpedo boats of the 135th Torpedo Squadron.[1][2] The Maddox fired 3 warning shots and the North Vietnamese boats then attacked with torpedoes and machine gun fire.[2] The Maddox expended over 280 3-inch and 5-inch shells in what was claimed to be a sea battle. One US aircraft was damaged, three North Vietnamese torpedo boats were allegedly damaged, and four North Vietnamese sailors were said to have been killed, with six more wounded. There were no U.S. casualties.[3] The Maddox "was unscathed except for a single bullet hole from a Vietnamese machine gun round."[2]

It was originally claimed by the National Security Agency that a Second Gulf of Tonkin incident occurred on August 4, 1964, as another sea battle, but instead evidence was found of "Tonkin ghosts"[4] (false radar images) and not actual North Vietnamese torpedo boats. In the 2003 documentary The Fog of War, the former United States Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara admitted that the August 2 USS Maddox attack happened with no Defense Department response, but the August 4 Gulf of Tonkin attack never happened.[5]

The outcome of these two incidents was the passage by Congress of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which granted President Lyndon B. Johnson the authority to assist any Southeast Asian country whose government was considered to be jeopardized by "communist aggression". The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for deploying US conventional forces and the commencement of open warfare against North Vietnam.

In 1995, former Secretary of Defense McNamara met with former Vietnam People's Army General Võ Nguyên Giáp to ask what happened on 4 August 1964 in the second Gulf of Tonkin Incident. "Absolutely nothing", Giáp replied.[6] Giáp claimed that the attack had been imaginary.[7]

In 2005, an internal National Security Agency historical study was declassified; it concluded that Maddox had engaged the North Vietnamese Navy on August 2, but that there were no North Vietnamese naval vessels present during the incident of August 4. The report stated regarding the first incident on August 2 that "at 1500G,[note 1] Captain Herrick ordered Ogier's gun crews to open fire if the boats approached within ten thousand yards. At about 1505G,[note 1] the Maddox fired three rounds to warn off the communist boats. This initial action was never reported by the Johnson administration, which insisted that the Vietnamese boats fired first


Gulf of Tonkin incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[namvet]

we had no business being there. should have let them fight it out

 

[Picaro]

Holy shit.

Stalin was the innocent one? .

Did not say that at all. Please point out where I stated that.

The vietcong were actually good people and America and South Vietnam were the tyrants?

I merely pointed out that the whole war could have been avoided if the US, France and Britain allowed Vietnam their Independence back in 1946.

No it couldn't. Mao was going to run the place, and as much as he could grab after the war. Viet Nam had no hope of independence. Mao ordered Ho to attack at Dein Ben Phu, and had ordered him to go on from there and attack Vientiane and then Cambodia. It's a lie that Stalin or Mao were anything but scumbags and would have left any of their neighboring countries alone. Ho didn't want to be used and get his own men sacrificed so he ran to Stalin for a mentor, and got Mao off his back, for a while anyway. To ignore Viet Nam would be to cede Asia to Mao and Stalin. Unacceptable, period. Somethimes all the choices are bad, and we have to go with the least bad options. that's just real life.

 

[Theowl32]

Holy shit.

Stalin was the innocent one? .

Did not say that at all. Please point out where I stated that.

The vietcong were actually good people and America and South Vietnam were the tyrants?

I merely pointed out that the whole war could have been avoided if the US, France and Britain allowed Vietnam their Independence back in 1946.

No it couldn't. Mao was going to run the place, and as much as he could grab after the war. Viet Nam had no hope of independence. Mao ordered Ho to attack at Dein Ben Phu, and had ordered him to go on from there and attack Vientiane and then Cambodia. It's a lie that Stalin or Mao were anything but scumbags and would have left any of their neighboring countries alone. Ho didn't want to be used and get his own men sacrificed so he ran to Stalin for a mentor, and got Mao off his back, for a while anyway. To ignore Viet Nam would be to cede Asia to Mao and Stalin. Unacceptable, period. Somethimes all the choices are bad, and we have to go with the least bad options. that's just real life.

Yeap, and what was most offensive to scumbag left wing communists here was we had the unmitigated gall to try and stop the spread of it.

It is too bad that the left still believes America were the tyrants. Look at the unreal scumbag posting here.

The asshole still has not acknowledged any of the atrocities done by the vietcong, stalin, Pol pot, none of them.

Instead he cast aspersions at of course America. They are such unreal scumbags with no clue about world history.

 

[Picaro]

Holy shit.

Stalin was the innocent one? .

Did not say that at all. Please point out where I stated that.

The vietcong were actually good people and America and South Vietnam were the tyrants?

I merely pointed out that the whole war could have been avoided if the US, France and Britain allowed Vietnam their Independence back in 1946.

No it couldn't. Mao was going to run the place, and as much as he could grab after the war. Viet Nam had no hope of independence. Mao ordered Ho to attack at Dein Ben Phu, and had ordered him to go on from there and attack Vientiane and then Cambodia. It's a lie that Stalin or Mao were anything but scumbags and would have left any of their neighboring countries alone. Ho didn't want to be used and get his own men sacrificed so he ran to Stalin for a mentor, and got Mao off his back, for a while anyway. To ignore Viet Nam would be to cede Asia to Mao and Stalin. Unacceptable, period. Somethimes all the choices are bad, and we have to go with the least bad options. that's just real life.

Yeap, and what was most offensive to scumbag left wing communists here was we had the unmitigated gall to try and stop the spread of it.

It is too bad that the left still believes America were the tyrants. Look at the unreal scumbag posting here.

The asshole still has not acknowledged any of the atrocities done by the vietcong, stalin, Pol pot, none of them.

Instead he cast aspersions at of course America. They are such unreal scumbags with no clue about world history.

They are just fashion victims. they like vermin like Noam Chomsky, the scum who admired Pol Pot and defended him and his butchery, and then they turn around and pretend they care about others out of the other sides of their mouths, and even try to pretend they genuinely cared about the American soldiers who lost their lives, when it's obvious they don't, they just like to use them as a gimmick 'talking point', which is all they mean to them.

In the event, we managed to drive the Khrushchev/Brezhnev Doctrine and the Soviets into bankruptcy, reduced their influence with dictators around the world, and they ended up dependent on western wheat and petroleum imports after 1973, and made it impossible for them to follow through with their plans for a major naval base in VN, sitting right on the key trade and shipping routes of Asia, the real point of VN. They tried to do that in 1979, but had to abandon it, and never were a threat again in that region. Our allies are grateful, and we should be too.

 

[Theowl32]

Holy shit.

Stalin was the innocent one? .

Did not say that at all. Please point out where I stated that.

The vietcong were actually good people and America and South Vietnam were the tyrants?

I merely pointed out that the whole war could have been avoided if the US, France and Britain allowed Vietnam their Independence back in 1946.

No it couldn't. Mao was going to run the place, and as much as he could grab after the war. Viet Nam had no hope of independence. Mao ordered Ho to attack at Dein Ben Phu, and had ordered him to go on from there and attack Vientiane and then Cambodia. It's a lie that Stalin or Mao were anything but scumbags and would have left any of their neighboring countries alone. Ho didn't want to be used and get his own men sacrificed so he ran to Stalin for a mentor, and got Mao off his back, for a while anyway. To ignore Viet Nam would be to cede Asia to Mao and Stalin. Unacceptable, period. Somethimes all the choices are bad, and we have to go with the least bad options. that's just real life.

Yeap, and what was most offensive to scumbag left wing communists here was we had the unmitigated gall to try and stop the spread of it.

It is too bad that the left still believes America were the tyrants. Look at the unreal scumbag posting here.

The asshole still has not acknowledged any of the atrocities done by the vietcong, stalin, Pol pot, none of them.

Instead he cast aspersions at of course America. They are such unreal scumbags with no clue about world history.

They are just fashion victims. they like vermin like Noam Chomsky, the scum who admired Pol Pot and defended him and his butchery, and then they turn around and pretend they care about others out of the other sides of their mouths, and even try to pretend they genuinely cared about the American soldiers who lost their lives, when it's obvious they don't, they just like to use them as a gimmick 'talking point', which is all they mean to them.

In the event, we managed to drive the Khrushchev/Brezhnev Doctrine and the Soviets into bankruptcy, reduced their influence with dictators around the world, and they ended up dependent on western wheat and petroleum imports after 1973, and made it impossible for them to follow through with their plans for a major naval base in VN, sitting right on the key trade and shipping routes of Asia, the real point of VN. They tried to do that in 1979, but had to abandon it, and never were a threat again in that region. Our allies are grateful, and we should be too.

Well, the democommiecrats, combined with Hollycommiewood and the help of the American Pravda media, the brainwashed squishpots parrot the same utter crap you have been reading by that pathetic loser.

Just watch this and see what their plans are.



Ought to scare the shit out of everyone. See what happens when the useful idiots are no longer useful. Mass killings. Happens every time.

Not here though eh?

Did we ever think there would be a day where it is illegal to use certain pronouns? Re-education.

 

[rightwinger]

What would have happened if we just allowed Vietnam to fight its Civil War without outside involvement?

Vietnam would have had a million fewer deaths
The U.S. Would have 60,000 deaths
The North would have won and the country would be as well off or better than it is today

 

[Picaro]

What would have happened if we just allowed Vietnam to fight its Civil War without outside involvement?

Vietnam would have had a million fewer deaths
The U.S. Would have 60,000 deaths
The North would have won and the country would be as well off or better than it is today

I'll bite:

So, how would you have gotten Mao and his hundreds of thousands of troops out and realized this notion of 'no outside interference'. That would have meant no Ho Chi Min as well.

 

[Desperado]

Yes, we should have stayed out of it.
It was a civil; war between the North and South....
It was none of out business, we did not have anything in play/
As time has proved the North took over and now they are a favored trading partner.
So that means 50,000 American lives were wasted for nothing, not to mention the wounded Americans who will never be the same.

 

[rightwinger]

What would have happened if we just allowed Vietnam to fight its Civil War without outside involvement?

Vietnam would have had a million fewer deaths
The U.S. Would have 60,000 deaths
The North would have won and the country would be as well off or better than it is today

I'll bite:

So, how would you have gotten Mao and his hundreds of thousands of troops out and realized this notion of 'no outside interference'. That would have meant no Ho Chi Min as well.

explain

 

[HenryBHough]

They understood they were attempting to restrict war and minimize it with the hopes that little wars could prevent a World War such as they had lived through.

True....and there IS a name for that:

LOSER​

 

[Tuatara]

Holy shit.

Stalin was the innocent one? .

Did not say that at all. Please point out where I stated that.

The vietcong were actually good people and America and South Vietnam were the tyrants?

I merely pointed out that the whole war could have been avoided if the US, France and Britain allowed Vietnam their Independence back in 1946.

No it couldn't. Mao was going to run the place, and as much as he could grab after the war.

The war just ended. Following the surrender of Japan to Allied forces, Ho Chi Minh and his People's Congress create the National Liberation Committee of Vietnam to form a provisional government. Ho Chi Mihn declares Independence for Vietnam and his speech was modeled on the U.S. Declaration of Independence . His speech can be found here. Declaration of Independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam
Elections were called in 1946 and Ho Chi Mihn won 182 out of the 302 seats.

Viet Nam had no hope of independence.

They already had their independence. France, their former imperialist occupiers didn't recognize their independence. Great Britain and the US would follow suit.

Mao ordered Ho to attack at Dein Ben Phu, and had ordered him to go on from there and attack Vientiane and then Cambodia.

Never heard that before. Got any evidence for that baseless assertion?

It's a lie that Stalin or Mao were anything but scumbags and would have left any of their neighboring countries alone.

Pure conjecture. History has shown us that the US was far more involved in other country's affairs than China and the USSR.

Ho didn't want to be used and get his own men sacrificed so he ran to Stalin for a mentor, and got Mao off his back, for a while anyway.

Wrong again. Ho tried for more than 3o years to work with many nations to gain Vietnam's independence. He traveled and wrote letters to the French Government. He Wrote Letters to Woodrow Wilson and Harry Truman. Ho Chi Mihn also during WW2 helped to rescue downed American pilots and gathered intelligence on the Japanese for the American OSS. Ho worked closely with the American intelligence community during WWII and his views of an independent Vietnam were well known to them. Due to the fact that Ho had tried every conceivable way to cooperate with both the French and Americans in gaining Vietnamese independence, and all of those efforts had been fruitless, Ho turned to the Communists for help.

To ignore Viet Nam would be to cede Asia to Mao and Stalin.

The US and France forced Ho Chi Mihn to align with Mao & Stalin.

Unacceptable, period. Sometimes all the choices are bad, and we have to go with the least bad options. that's just real life.

No, the US went with the worst possible option and every single decision they made after this concerning Vietnam was just as bad as the last.

 

[Picaro]

What would have happened if we just allowed Vietnam to fight its Civil War without outside involvement?

Vietnam would have had a million fewer deaths
The U.S. Would have 60,000 deaths
The North would have won and the country would be as well off or better than it is today

I'll bite:

So, how would you have gotten Mao and his hundreds of thousands of troops out and realized this notion of 'no outside interference'. That would have meant no Ho Chi Min as well.

explain

What? You're avoiding answering. Why? It isn't a tough question.

 

[Picaro]

Holy shit.

Stalin was the innocent one? .

Did not say that at all. Please point out where I stated that.

The vietcong were actually good people and America and South Vietnam were the tyrants?

I merely pointed out that the whole war could have been avoided if the US, France and Britain allowed Vietnam their Independence back in 1946.

No it couldn't. Mao was going to run the place, and as much as he could grab after the war. Viet Nam had no hope of independence. Mao ordered Ho to attack at Dein Ben Phu, and had ordered him to go on from there and attack Vientiane and then Cambodia. It's a lie that Stalin or Mao were anything but scumbags and would have left any of their neighboring countries alone. Ho didn't want to be used and get his own men sacrificed so he ran to Stalin for a mentor, and got Mao off his back, for a while anyway. To ignore Viet Nam would be to cede Asia to Mao and Stalin. Unacceptable, period. Somethimes all the choices are bad, and we have to go with the least bad options. that's just real life.

Yeap, and what was most offensive to scumbag left wing communists here was we had the unmitigated gall to try and stop the spread of it.

It is too bad that the left still believes America were the tyrants. Look at the unreal scumbag posting here.

The asshole still has not acknowledged any of the atrocities done by the vietcong, stalin, Pol pot, none of them.

Instead he cast aspersions at of course America. They are such unreal scumbags with no clue about world history.

They are just fashion victims. they like vermin like Noam Chomsky, the scum who admired Pol Pot and defended him and his butchery, and then they turn around and pretend they care about others out of the other sides of their mouths, and even try to pretend they genuinely cared about the American soldiers who lost their lives, when it's obvious they don't, they just like to use them as a gimmick 'talking point', which is all they mean to them.

In the event, we managed to drive the Khrushchev/Brezhnev Doctrine and the Soviets into bankruptcy, reduced their influence with dictators around the world, and they ended up dependent on western wheat and petroleum imports after 1973, and made it impossible for them to follow through with their plans for a major naval base in VN, sitting right on the key trade and shipping routes of Asia, the real point of VN. They tried to do that in 1979, but had to abandon it, and never were a threat again in that region. Our allies are grateful, and we should be too.

Well, the democommiecrats, combined with Hollycommiewood and the help of the American Pravda media, the brainwashed squishpots parrot the same utter crap you have been reading by that pathetic loser.

Just watch this and see what their plans are.



Ought to scare the shit out of everyone. See what happens when the useful idiots are no longer useful. Mass killings. Happens every time.

Not here though eh?

Did we ever think there would be a day where it is illegal to use certain pronouns? Re-education.

they like Commie style 'elections', and making heroes of vermin like Ho, who hardly even lived in Viet Nam. Here's his history, and how those alledged 'elections' he won are ridiculous nonsense, like any other Communist 'election' ever held. The apologists and fellow travelers of mass murderers would try and sell the idea he had no history before 1946, for obvious reasons.

Ho Chi Minh

And why do these apologists for murderers think that when these vermin model their joke propaganda 'Constitutions' and 'Declarations' after ours it is some kind of point? Hey, so did the Soviet Union, and only utter morons or liars would claim the Soviet Union actually practiced any of those platforms. They're ridiculous loons to be claiming there is any resemblance.

 

[rightwinger]

What would have happened if we just allowed Vietnam to fight its Civil War without outside involvement?

Vietnam would have had a million fewer deaths
The U.S. Would have 60,000 deaths
The North would have won and the country would be as well off or better than it is today

I'll bite:

So, how would you have gotten Mao and his hundreds of thousands of troops out and realized this notion of 'no outside interference'. That would have meant no Ho Chi Min as well.

explain

What? You're avoiding answering. Why? It isn't a tough question.

You are making wild claims

If you can back them up, we can discuss them

Start with the hundreds of thousand of Chinese troops in Vietnam

 

[Tuatara]

Did not say that at all. Please point out where I stated that.

I merely pointed out that the whole war could have been avoided if the US, France and Britain allowed Vietnam their Independence back in 1946.

No it couldn't. Mao was going to run the place, and as much as he could grab after the war. Viet Nam had no hope of independence. Mao ordered Ho to attack at Dein Ben Phu, and had ordered him to go on from there and attack Vientiane and then Cambodia. It's a lie that Stalin or Mao were anything but scumbags and would have left any of their neighboring countries alone. Ho didn't want to be used and get his own men sacrificed so he ran to Stalin for a mentor, and got Mao off his back, for a while anyway. To ignore Viet Nam would be to cede Asia to Mao and Stalin. Unacceptable, period. Somethimes all the choices are bad, and we have to go with the least bad options. that's just real life.

Yeap, and what was most offensive to scumbag left wing communists here was we had the unmitigated gall to try and stop the spread of it.

It is too bad that the left still believes America were the tyrants. Look at the unreal scumbag posting here.

The asshole still has not acknowledged any of the atrocities done by the vietcong, stalin, Pol pot, none of them.

Instead he cast aspersions at of course America. They are such unreal scumbags with no clue about world history.

They are just fashion victims. they like vermin like Noam Chomsky, the scum who admired Pol Pot and defended him and his butchery, and then they turn around and pretend they care about others out of the other sides of their mouths, and even try to pretend they genuinely cared about the American soldiers who lost their lives, when it's obvious they don't, they just like to use them as a gimmick 'talking point', which is all they mean to them.

In the event, we managed to drive the Khrushchev/Brezhnev Doctrine and the Soviets into bankruptcy, reduced their influence with dictators around the world, and they ended up dependent on western wheat and petroleum imports after 1973, and made it impossible for them to follow through with their plans for a major naval base in VN, sitting right on the key trade and shipping routes of Asia, the real point of VN. They tried to do that in 1979, but had to abandon it, and never were a threat again in that region. Our allies are grateful, and we should be too.

Well, the democommiecrats, combined with Hollycommiewood and the help of the American Pravda media, the brainwashed squishpots parrot the same utter crap you have been reading by that pathetic loser.

Just watch this and see what their plans are.



Ought to scare the shit out of everyone. See what happens when the useful idiots are no longer useful. Mass killings. Happens every time.

Not here though eh?

Did we ever think there would be a day where it is illegal to use certain pronouns? Re-education.

they like Commie style 'elections', and making heroes of vermin like Ho, who hardly even lived in Viet Nam. Here's his history, and how those alledged 'elections' he won are ridiculous nonsense, like any other Communist 'election' ever held. The apologists and fellow travelers of mass murderers would try and sell the idea he had no history before 1946, for obvious reasons.

I was waiting for some fool to bring up elections

In 1954 Vietnam was divided into North and South Vietnam and Bao Dai and his French advisors attempted to take control of South Vietnam. At this point America had enough of dealing with the French, who had so far been losing their hold on the region, so the US backed Ngo Dinh Diem who American leaders felt would be agreeable to American authority in Vietnam. Ngo Dinh Diem, who lived in the United States during the French-Indochina war, was the first "democratically" elected president of South Vietnam. The election was coerced however. The only choices were between Bao Dai and Ngo Dinh Diem, both leaders that were favored by Western powers. Voters complained that they were told who to vote for, to vote for Diem, some of those that did not were beaten by CIA supported Vietnamese forces.


The result of the election was 98.2% for Diem. Diem's American advisors told him to change the vote count and release a number no larger then 70% or else the vote would not be believable. As one of his first acts of non-cooperation he refused and claimed a 98.2% victory. The world immediately knew that the election had been rigged and his authority was undermined.


It's easy to see why the first experiences that the Vietnamese had with "Western democracy" left a bad taste in their mouth and resulted in a high level of distrust in American and Western involvement and systems.


In 1956 Diem cancelled a national election between the North and South that were called for in the peace accord with American assistance knowing that Ho Chi Minh would easily win open elections.


Shortly after canceling the elections he had over a hundred thousand citizens put into prison camps, mostly communists, but generally anyone who opposed his rule, including journalists and intellectuals, and even children.

The American involvement in Vietnam

So don't even begin to pretend you're all about free elections. If you were you would be criticizing the US which has done this numerous times.
You do know the definition of hypocrite, don't you?

 

[Picaro]

You are making wild claims

If you can back them up, we can discuss them

Start with the hundreds of thousand of Chinese troops in Vietnam

Dodge duly noted. You know the answer already, and hope to bury your embarrassment with a couple of pages of spam posts, demanding replies from others while not answering any yourself, as usual. Thanks for playing.