Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Syriusly]

[
The role of the the state should be to promote procreation and a stable family environment for the children of these unions. Legalizing gay marriage serves no purpose towards this end and incentivizes a degenerate and destructive lifestyle.

I think you are thinking of something completely different from marriage.

Because marriage right now doesn't promote procreation or a stable family environment for children.

Marriage only legally binds two people together.

Those two people can choose to try to have children or chose to not try to have children- and the state doesn't care.
Those two people can have children- and not marry- and the state doesn't care.
Those two people can be married, and have children- and decide to divorce- and the state doesn't care.

Really- if you want marriage to promote procreation and a stable family environment you needs something radically different than current legal marriage. There is nothing about current marriage law that accomplishes those things.

Hell Wisconsin requires first cousins to prove that they cannot have children together before they can marry- i.e. just the opposite of what you say the role of the State should be.

But if you want to treat same gender couples the same as opposite gender couples who cannot- or do not want to have children- and only allow marriage to those couples who are physically capable of procreation, and commit to having children, and become divorced if they don't have children- but can't divorce if they do have children- well that would be equal at least.

But right now all you are in essence saying is that you don't want the children of gay couples to have married parents.

No, I don't want gays to be able to adopt to begin with. I don't believe in equal treatment.
..

Well there we go.

You start from a position of wanting to deny children parents- if they happen to be gay.

And you don't believe in equal treatment.

You don't want the children of gay couples to have married parents.

In the words of Justice Kennedy- the likely swing vote when this reaches the Supreme Court:

"There is an immediate legal injury and that's the voice of these children," he said. "There's some 40,000 children in California, according to the Red Brief, that live with same-sex parents, and they want their parents to have full recognition and full status. The voice of those children is important in this case, don't you think?"

You are telling Justice Kennedy "Hell no"

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Yup, it's the old "slippery slope, so it must not be true" argument - last refuge of those who desperately wish slippery slopes weren't true. It must suck to know you have no argument and have to deflect virtually every time you open your cakehole, huh?

LOL....well I do appreciate your attempt to use my own words back at me, the reality is that the slippery slope argument is not legally persuasive and is the usual refuge of those who have no moral argument.

No, the reality is that slippery slopes are real. .

Yet you provide no evidence that this slippery slope exists.

50 years since the Civil Rights Act was passed.

No one has successfully used it- or any similar PA law to require a church marry a Jew, a church marry a black or a church marry a homosexual.

Best get crackin' on that slippery slope because right now it is absolutely flat.

Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail



wouldnt ever happen

Reading comprehension past the headline is important.

United Methodist Church (UMC) pastor in the United States had had a formal complaint filed against him by a same-sex couple who are part of his congregation because he refused to officiate at their wedding.

Kenneth Barner and Scott Chappell have charged Rev Kelly Carpenter, pastor of Green Street church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, with “failure to perform the work of ministry”, according to the United Methodist News Service (UMNS). They also accuse him of “gender discrimination”.

Both are chargeable offences according to the UMC’s Book of Discipline. However, so is officiating at a same-sex wedding.

According to Barner and Chappell, the rules are contradictory. “God’s grace is available to all and so should the pastoral ministry (be)”, the charge says.


Read more at Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail

Do you think that church members should not be allowed to file complaints according to the church's own rules?

Here is a better article about it- with an accurate headline:

Gay couple files complaint for refusal of wedding

“I have initiated the proper response according to The Book of Discipline,” the bishop told UMNS. “Because this is now a personnel matter of the annual conference, it will need to remain confidential until further notice.”

As bishop, Goodpaster is charged with following a process that encourages finding a resolution that satisfies the bishop, the individuals lodging a complaint, and the one facing the complaint.

Carpenter said he didn’t know how the process would go “mostly because we are pretty much in agreement about the problem in the church. We need to figure that out.”

He said he thinks the church’s public witness in this dispute has the potential to be “uniting” for the congregation. Carpenter stressed that Barner and Chappell are serious about the complaint, but he commended them for finding a creative way designed not to harm the church.

Carpenter is sympathetic to the cause, saying: “If there was a way for me to be a co-signer with the complaint, I think it’s right on the money.

“It really calls out the contradictions in our Book of Discipline, which calls us to be ministry with all people.”


Read more at Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail

This is an internal church dispute- filed by church members.

Why would you object to that?

Same as all my other examples, it shows that gays are building up to suing churches to perform gay "marriages"

Why you deny it is probable in the future is beyond comprehension.

 

[Seawytch]

.

Hey folks, I'm having one heckuva time getting proponents of public accommodations laws to express their outrage on this thread:

Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Traditional Marriage Cake Turned Down By All Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Little help here!

.

If the bakers do not carry or provide the item the customer asks for, no laws are being broken.

Example One:

Customer walks into a gadget store and orders gadget out of catalog or off the shelf. Business sells gadget to person A but not person B because they don't like the religion of person B. Discrimination has occurred.

Example Two:

Customer walks into gadget store and asks for a non gadget item that the business does not nor have they ever provided. No discrimination has occurred.

 

[Seawytch]

LOL....well I do appreciate your attempt to use my own words back at me, the reality is that the slippery slope argument is not legally persuasive and is the usual refuge of those who have no moral argument.

No, the reality is that slippery slopes are real. .

Yet you provide no evidence that this slippery slope exists.

50 years since the Civil Rights Act was passed.

No one has successfully used it- or any similar PA law to require a church marry a Jew, a church marry a black or a church marry a homosexual.

Best get crackin' on that slippery slope because right now it is absolutely flat.

Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail



wouldnt ever happen

Reading comprehension past the headline is important.

United Methodist Church (UMC) pastor in the United States had had a formal complaint filed against him by a same-sex couple who are part of his congregation because he refused to officiate at their wedding.

Kenneth Barner and Scott Chappell have charged Rev Kelly Carpenter, pastor of Green Street church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, with “failure to perform the work of ministry”, according to the United Methodist News Service (UMNS). They also accuse him of “gender discrimination”.

Both are chargeable offences according to the UMC’s Book of Discipline. However, so is officiating at a same-sex wedding.

According to Barner and Chappell, the rules are contradictory. “God’s grace is available to all and so should the pastoral ministry (be)”, the charge says.


Read more at Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail

Do you think that church members should not be allowed to file complaints according to the church's own rules?

Here is a better article about it- with an accurate headline:

Gay couple files complaint for refusal of wedding

“I have initiated the proper response according to The Book of Discipline,” the bishop told UMNS. “Because this is now a personnel matter of the annual conference, it will need to remain confidential until further notice.”

As bishop, Goodpaster is charged with following a process that encourages finding a resolution that satisfies the bishop, the individuals lodging a complaint, and the one facing the complaint.

Carpenter said he didn’t know how the process would go “mostly because we are pretty much in agreement about the problem in the church. We need to figure that out.”

He said he thinks the church’s public witness in this dispute has the potential to be “uniting” for the congregation. Carpenter stressed that Barner and Chappell are serious about the complaint, but he commended them for finding a creative way designed not to harm the church.

Carpenter is sympathetic to the cause, saying: “If there was a way for me to be a co-signer with the complaint, I think it’s right on the money.

“It really calls out the contradictions in our Book of Discipline, which calls us to be ministry with all people.”


Read more at Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail

This is an internal church dispute- filed by church members.

Why would you object to that?

Same as all my other examples, it shows that gays are building up to suing churches to perform gay "marriages"

Why you deny it is probable in the future is beyond comprehension.

They won't win even if someone DOES sue. It's impossible. Won't happen. No church has ever nor will they ever be forced by the government to perform a ceremony against the perceived tenants of their faith. E-V-E-R.

Pressure from their own church members is another thing altogether (and how churches ARE changing)

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

.

Hey folks, I'm having one heckuva time getting proponents of public accommodations laws to express their outrage on this thread:

Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Traditional Marriage Cake Turned Down By All Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Little help here!

.

If the bakers do not carry or provide the item the customer asks for, no laws are being broken.

Example One:

Customer walks into a gadget store and orders gadget out of catalog or off the shelf. Business sells gadget to person A but not person B because they don't like the religion of person B. Discrimination has occurred.

Example Two:

Customer walks into gadget store and asks for a non gadget item that the business does not nor have they ever provided. No discrimination has occurred.

You're such a dishonest piece of shit.

Bakeries who sell cakes advertise that they sell CUSTOM cakes. Have you EVER been to a bakery which only sold cakes that were actually on their display? Of course not you idiot.

You truly can't just be honest and say "those gay bakeries are in violation of the law as it stands" can you?

 

[Seawytch]

.

Hey folks, I'm having one heckuva time getting proponents of public accommodations laws to express their outrage on this thread:

Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Traditional Marriage Cake Turned Down By All Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Little help here!

.

If the bakers do not carry or provide the item the customer asks for, no laws are being broken.

Example One:

Customer walks into a gadget store and orders gadget out of catalog or off the shelf. Business sells gadget to person A but not person B because they don't like the religion of person B. Discrimination has occurred.

Example Two:

Customer walks into gadget store and asks for a non gadget item that the business does not nor have they ever provided. No discrimination has occurred.

You're such a dishonest piece of shit.

Bakeries who sell cakes advertise that they sell CUSTOM cakes. Have you EVER been to a bakery which only sold cakes that were actually on their display? Of course not you idiot.

You truly can't just be honest and say "those gay bakeries are in violation of the law as it stands" can you?

If it is a custom order, it is up to the discretion of the business as to whether or not they can or will do it. No discrimination occurred.

Customer A is straight, buys wedding cake. Customer B is gay is refused same exact cake. Discrimination

Customer A and B both order a custom made cake...business can refuse either or both. No discrimination.

 

[Syriusly]

LOL....well I do appreciate your attempt to use my own words back at me, the reality is that the slippery slope argument is not legally persuasive and is the usual refuge of those who have no moral argument.

No, the reality is that slippery slopes are real. .

Yet you provide no evidence that this slippery slope exists.

50 years since the Civil Rights Act was passed.

No one has successfully used it- or any similar PA law to require a church marry a Jew, a church marry a black or a church marry a homosexual.

Best get crackin' on that slippery slope because right now it is absolutely flat.

Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail



wouldnt ever happen

Reading comprehension past the headline is important.

United Methodist Church (UMC) pastor in the United States had had a formal complaint filed against him by a same-sex couple who are part of his congregation because he refused to officiate at their wedding.

Kenneth Barner and Scott Chappell have charged Rev Kelly Carpenter, pastor of Green Street church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, with “failure to perform the work of ministry”, according to the United Methodist News Service (UMNS). They also accuse him of “gender discrimination”.

Both are chargeable offences according to the UMC’s Book of Discipline. However, so is officiating at a same-sex wedding.

According to Barner and Chappell, the rules are contradictory. “God’s grace is available to all and so should the pastoral ministry (be)”, the charge says.


Read more at Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail

Do you think that church members should not be allowed to file complaints according to the church's own rules?

Here is a better article about it- with an accurate headline:

Gay couple files complaint for refusal of wedding

“I have initiated the proper response according to The Book of Discipline,” the bishop told UMNS. “Because this is now a personnel matter of the annual conference, it will need to remain confidential until further notice.”

As bishop, Goodpaster is charged with following a process that encourages finding a resolution that satisfies the bishop, the individuals lodging a complaint, and the one facing the complaint.

Carpenter said he didn’t know how the process would go “mostly because we are pretty much in agreement about the problem in the church. We need to figure that out.”

He said he thinks the church’s public witness in this dispute has the potential to be “uniting” for the congregation. Carpenter stressed that Barner and Chappell are serious about the complaint, but he commended them for finding a creative way designed not to harm the church.

Carpenter is sympathetic to the cause, saying: “If there was a way for me to be a co-signer with the complaint, I think it’s right on the money.

“It really calls out the contradictions in our Book of Discipline, which calls us to be ministry with all people.”


Read more at Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail

This is an internal church dispute- filed by church members.

Why would you object to that?

Same as all my other examples, it shows that gays are building up to suing churches to perform gay "marriages"

Why you deny it is probable in the future is beyond comprehension.

Actually I have said before- any idiot can file a law suit.

However- you posted an article with the headline that was inaccurate- about a situation that is not a lawsuit but an internal rules dispute within a church.

Your post was inaccurate- and you don't seem to care about your inaccuracy.

This is an internal church dispute- filed by church members.

Why would you object to that?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

.

Hey folks, I'm having one heckuva time getting proponents of public accommodations laws to express their outrage on this thread:

Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Traditional Marriage Cake Turned Down By All Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Little help here!

.

If the bakers do not carry or provide the item the customer asks for, no laws are being broken.

Example One:

Customer walks into a gadget store and orders gadget out of catalog or off the shelf. Business sells gadget to person A but not person B because they don't like the religion of person B. Discrimination has occurred.

Example Two:

Customer walks into gadget store and asks for a non gadget item that the business does not nor have they ever provided. No discrimination has occurred.

You're such a dishonest piece of shit.

Bakeries who sell cakes advertise that they sell CUSTOM cakes. Have you EVER been to a bakery which only sold cakes that were actually on their display? Of course not you idiot.

You truly can't just be honest and say "those gay bakeries are in violation of the law as it stands" can you?

If it is a custom order, it is up to the discretion of the business as to whether or not they can or will do it. No discrimination occurred.

Customer A is straight, buys wedding cake. Customer B is gay is refused same exact cake. Discrimination

Customer A and B both order a custom made cake...business can refuse either or both. No discrimination.

Wrong moron, that's not how the law works

Jesus Christ educate yourself before you go arguing shit.

Who the fuck has EVER bought a wedding cake out of a display case? NO ONE , they are ALL custom cakes.

 

[Syriusly]

.

Hey folks, I'm having one heckuva time getting proponents of public accommodations laws to express their outrage on this thread:

Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Traditional Marriage Cake Turned Down By All Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Little help here!

.

If the bakers do not carry or provide the item the customer asks for, no laws are being broken.

Example One:

Customer walks into a gadget store and orders gadget out of catalog or off the shelf. Business sells gadget to person A but not person B because they don't like the religion of person B. Discrimination has occurred.

Example Two:

Customer walks into gadget store and asks for a non gadget item that the business does not nor have they ever provided. No discrimination has occurred.

You're such a dishonest piece of shit.

Bakeries who sell cakes advertise that they sell CUSTOM cakes. Have you EVER been to a bakery which only sold cakes that were actually on their display? Of course not you idiot.

You truly can't just be honest and say "those gay bakeries are in violation of the law as it stands" can you?

Are those bakeries in violation of the law?

What law was violated?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

No, the reality is that slippery slopes are real. .

Yet you provide no evidence that this slippery slope exists.

50 years since the Civil Rights Act was passed.

No one has successfully used it- or any similar PA law to require a church marry a Jew, a church marry a black or a church marry a homosexual.

Best get crackin' on that slippery slope because right now it is absolutely flat.

Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail



wouldnt ever happen

Reading comprehension past the headline is important.

United Methodist Church (UMC) pastor in the United States had had a formal complaint filed against him by a same-sex couple who are part of his congregation because he refused to officiate at their wedding.

Kenneth Barner and Scott Chappell have charged Rev Kelly Carpenter, pastor of Green Street church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, with “failure to perform the work of ministry”, according to the United Methodist News Service (UMNS). They also accuse him of “gender discrimination”.

Both are chargeable offences according to the UMC’s Book of Discipline. However, so is officiating at a same-sex wedding.

According to Barner and Chappell, the rules are contradictory. “God’s grace is available to all and so should the pastoral ministry (be)”, the charge says.


Read more at Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail

Do you think that church members should not be allowed to file complaints according to the church's own rules?

Here is a better article about it- with an accurate headline:

Gay couple files complaint for refusal of wedding

“I have initiated the proper response according to The Book of Discipline,” the bishop told UMNS. “Because this is now a personnel matter of the annual conference, it will need to remain confidential until further notice.”

As bishop, Goodpaster is charged with following a process that encourages finding a resolution that satisfies the bishop, the individuals lodging a complaint, and the one facing the complaint.

Carpenter said he didn’t know how the process would go “mostly because we are pretty much in agreement about the problem in the church. We need to figure that out.”

He said he thinks the church’s public witness in this dispute has the potential to be “uniting” for the congregation. Carpenter stressed that Barner and Chappell are serious about the complaint, but he commended them for finding a creative way designed not to harm the church.

Carpenter is sympathetic to the cause, saying: “If there was a way for me to be a co-signer with the complaint, I think it’s right on the money.

“It really calls out the contradictions in our Book of Discipline, which calls us to be ministry with all people.”


Read more at Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail

This is an internal church dispute- filed by church members.

Why would you object to that?

Same as all my other examples, it shows that gays are building up to suing churches to perform gay "marriages"

Why you deny it is probable in the future is beyond comprehension.

Actually I have said before- any idiot can file a law suit.

However- you posted an article with the headline that was inaccurate- about a situation that is not a lawsuit but an internal rules dispute within a church.

Your post was inaccurate- and you don't seem to care about your inaccuracy.

This is an internal church dispute- filed by church members.

Why would you object to that?

No sir , The thread title is accurate. He wasn't sued in court, because the church has a policy of self mediating such things, but he was sued.

I do admit , however, that it could mislead people who don't understand hat sued doesn't necessarily mean in civil court.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

.

Hey folks, I'm having one heckuva time getting proponents of public accommodations laws to express their outrage on this thread:

Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Traditional Marriage Cake Turned Down By All Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Little help here!

.

If the bakers do not carry or provide the item the customer asks for, no laws are being broken.

Example One:

Customer walks into a gadget store and orders gadget out of catalog or off the shelf. Business sells gadget to person A but not person B because they don't like the religion of person B. Discrimination has occurred.

Example Two:

Customer walks into gadget store and asks for a non gadget item that the business does not nor have they ever provided. No discrimination has occurred.

You're such a dishonest piece of shit.

Bakeries who sell cakes advertise that they sell CUSTOM cakes. Have you EVER been to a bakery which only sold cakes that were actually on their display? Of course not you idiot.

You truly can't just be honest and say "those gay bakeries are in violation of the law as it stands" can you?

Are those bakeries in violation of the law?

What law was violated?

Depends on their state laws. I haven't looked yet to be honest.

In either case you very well know by now that I believe they were within their rights to refuse service.

 

[Seawytch]

.

Hey folks, I'm having one heckuva time getting proponents of public accommodations laws to express their outrage on this thread:

Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Traditional Marriage Cake Turned Down By All Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Little help here!

.

If the bakers do not carry or provide the item the customer asks for, no laws are being broken.

Example One:

Customer walks into a gadget store and orders gadget out of catalog or off the shelf. Business sells gadget to person A but not person B because they don't like the religion of person B. Discrimination has occurred.

Example Two:

Customer walks into gadget store and asks for a non gadget item that the business does not nor have they ever provided. No discrimination has occurred.

You're such a dishonest piece of shit.

Bakeries who sell cakes advertise that they sell CUSTOM cakes. Have you EVER been to a bakery which only sold cakes that were actually on their display? Of course not you idiot.

You truly can't just be honest and say "those gay bakeries are in violation of the law as it stands" can you?

If it is a custom order, it is up to the discretion of the business as to whether or not they can or will do it. No discrimination occurred.

Customer A is straight, buys wedding cake. Customer B is gay is refused same exact cake. Discrimination

Customer A and B both order a custom made cake...business can refuse either or both. No discrimination.

Wrong moron, that's not how the law works

Jesus Christ educate yourself before you go arguing shit.

Who the fuck has EVER bought a wedding cake out of a display case? NO ONE , they are ALL custom cakes.

What I said and is true is that no business must provide an item that they do not already provide. And yes, wedding cakes are ordered out of a catalog, you dolt. You don't walk in with a fucking blueprint, Dumber than the Average Cockroach.

If you sell the product to Person A, you must also sell the product to Person B. It can't get any simpler than that and you still don't understand? That's so sad...

 

[Skylar]

No, I don't want gays to be able to adopt to begin with. I don't believe in equal treatment.

The law does.

But to suggest that the government as of right now doesn't incentivize procreation and stable families, and thus traditional marriage can't be defend on these grounds, is false.

Here's the problem: the exclusion of those who can't procreate. If the State applied that standard on infertile straights, it would be a perfectly legitimate basis for excluding gays. But its a standard that no one is held to. With millions of infertile straight couples married or allowed to marry, there's clearly a valid basis of marriage that has nothing with children or the ability to have them.

The second problem: many gays and lesbians have children. And refusing to allow the parents of these children to be married harms them on multiple levels. It humiliates these childrenbeing raised by same-sex couples. Gay marriage bans makes it even more difficult for the children to understand the integrity and closeness of their own family. Its also makes it harder to understand similar closeness with other families in their community.

It also restricts their parents access to rights and privileges that may have a dramatic impact on their lives. Like say, medical decisions for their spouse. Or healthcare benefits for their spouse or the children. Or raises the cost of healthcare for these children. In the case of the death of one of their parents, it may deny these children access to survivors benefits or other resources. All of this is completely unnecessary, unjust, and in my opinion, ultimately invalid.

 

[Syriusly]

Yet you provide no evidence that this slippery slope exists.

50 years since the Civil Rights Act was passed.

No one has successfully used it- or any similar PA law to require a church marry a Jew, a church marry a black or a church marry a homosexual.

Best get crackin' on that slippery slope because right now it is absolutely flat.

Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail



wouldnt ever happen

Reading comprehension past the headline is important.

United Methodist Church (UMC) pastor in the United States had had a formal complaint filed against him by a same-sex couple who are part of his congregation because he refused to officiate at their wedding.

Kenneth Barner and Scott Chappell have charged Rev Kelly Carpenter, pastor of Green Street church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, with “failure to perform the work of ministry”, according to the United Methodist News Service (UMNS). They also accuse him of “gender discrimination”.

Both are chargeable offences according to the UMC’s Book of Discipline. However, so is officiating at a same-sex wedding.

According to Barner and Chappell, the rules are contradictory. “God’s grace is available to all and so should the pastoral ministry (be)”, the charge says.


Read more at Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail

Do you think that church members should not be allowed to file complaints according to the church's own rules?

Here is a better article about it- with an accurate headline:

Gay couple files complaint for refusal of wedding

“I have initiated the proper response according to The Book of Discipline,” the bishop told UMNS. “Because this is now a personnel matter of the annual conference, it will need to remain confidential until further notice.”

As bishop, Goodpaster is charged with following a process that encourages finding a resolution that satisfies the bishop, the individuals lodging a complaint, and the one facing the complaint.

Carpenter said he didn’t know how the process would go “mostly because we are pretty much in agreement about the problem in the church. We need to figure that out.”

He said he thinks the church’s public witness in this dispute has the potential to be “uniting” for the congregation. Carpenter stressed that Barner and Chappell are serious about the complaint, but he commended them for finding a creative way designed not to harm the church.

Carpenter is sympathetic to the cause, saying: “If there was a way for me to be a co-signer with the complaint, I think it’s right on the money.

“It really calls out the contradictions in our Book of Discipline, which calls us to be ministry with all people.”


Read more at Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail

This is an internal church dispute- filed by church members.

Why would you object to that?

Same as all my other examples, it shows that gays are building up to suing churches to perform gay "marriages"

Why you deny it is probable in the future is beyond comprehension.

Actually I have said before- any idiot can file a law suit.

However- you posted an article with the headline that was inaccurate- about a situation that is not a lawsuit but an internal rules dispute within a church.

Your post was inaccurate- and you don't seem to care about your inaccuracy.

This is an internal church dispute- filed by church members.

Why would you object to that?

No sir , The thread title is accurate. He wasn't sued in court, because the church has a policy of self mediating such things, but he was sued.

I do admit , however, that it could mislead people who don't understand hat sued doesn't necessarily mean in civil court.

Oh it could be misleading since we were discussing law suits- and whether churches can be sued and the headline uses a term that is used almost exclusively for law suits- when this is an internal church dispute.

Once again:

This is an internal church dispute- filed by church members.

Why would you object to that?

 

[Skylar]

.

Hey folks, I'm having one heckuva time getting proponents of public accommodations laws to express their outrage on this thread:

Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Traditional Marriage Cake Turned Down By All Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Little help here!

.

If the bakers do not carry or provide the item the customer asks for, no laws are being broken.

Example One:

Customer walks into a gadget store and orders gadget out of catalog or off the shelf. Business sells gadget to person A but not person B because they don't like the religion of person B. Discrimination has occurred.

Example Two:

Customer walks into gadget store and asks for a non gadget item that the business does not nor have they ever provided. No discrimination has occurred.

You're such a dishonest piece of shit.

Bakeries who sell cakes advertise that they sell CUSTOM cakes. Have you EVER been to a bakery which only sold cakes that were actually on their display? Of course not you idiot.

You truly can't just be honest and say "those gay bakeries are in violation of the law as it stands" can you?

If it is a custom order, it is up to the discretion of the business as to whether or not they can or will do it. No discrimination occurred.

Customer A is straight, buys wedding cake. Customer B is gay is refused same exact cake. Discrimination

Customer A and B both order a custom made cake...business can refuse either or both. No discrimination.

Wrong moron, that's not how the law works

Jesus Christ educate yourself before you go arguing shit.

Who the fuck has EVER bought a wedding cake out of a display case? NO ONE , they are ALL custom cakes.

What I said and is true is that no business must provide an item that they do not already provide. And yes, wedding cakes are ordered out of a catalog, you dolt. You don't walk in with a fucking blueprint, Dumber than the Average Cockroach.

If you sell the product to Person A, you must also sell the product to Person B. It can't get any simpler than that and you still don't understand? That's so sad...

Exactly. There's no qualitative difference between a cake for gays or a cake for straights. Its all just cake. If you sell cake, you sell to those who want to buy cake. Its within the authority of the States to regulate intrastate commerce within their own borders. And its reasonable for the States to require basic standards of fairness in business.

Though I do agree with folks who object to the Federal Government sticking their dick into these issues of intrastate commerce. Not because I believe the Federal Governments efforts are wrong, but because their laws should lack jurisdiction over issues of intrastate commerce, IMHO.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

.

Hey folks, I'm having one heckuva time getting proponents of public accommodations laws to express their outrage on this thread:

Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Traditional Marriage Cake Turned Down By All Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Little help here!

.

If the bakers do not carry or provide the item the customer asks for, no laws are being broken.

Example One:

Customer walks into a gadget store and orders gadget out of catalog or off the shelf. Business sells gadget to person A but not person B because they don't like the religion of person B. Discrimination has occurred.

Example Two:

Customer walks into gadget store and asks for a non gadget item that the business does not nor have they ever provided. No discrimination has occurred.

You're such a dishonest piece of shit.

Bakeries who sell cakes advertise that they sell CUSTOM cakes. Have you EVER been to a bakery which only sold cakes that were actually on their display? Of course not you idiot.

You truly can't just be honest and say "those gay bakeries are in violation of the law as it stands" can you?

If it is a custom order, it is up to the discretion of the business as to whether or not they can or will do it. No discrimination occurred.

Customer A is straight, buys wedding cake. Customer B is gay is refused same exact cake. Discrimination

Customer A and B both order a custom made cake...business can refuse either or both. No discrimination.

Wrong moron, that's not how the law works

Jesus Christ educate yourself before you go arguing shit.

Who the fuck has EVER bought a wedding cake out of a display case? NO ONE , they are ALL custom cakes.

What I said and is true is that no business must provide an item that they do not already provide. And yes, wedding cakes are ordered out of a catalog, you dolt. You don't walk in with a fucking blueprint, Dumber than the Average Cockroach.

If you sell the product to Person A, you must also sell the product to Person B. It can't get any simpler than that and you still don't understand? That's so sad...

You are so stupid and dishonest.

Look at this link

Elegant Cakery. Porcelain Cake Toppers

show me where you see a wedding cake topper with two men or two women. You don't.

Should that bakery be forced to provide one should a gay couple want one?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail



wouldnt ever happen

Reading comprehension past the headline is important.

United Methodist Church (UMC) pastor in the United States had had a formal complaint filed against him by a same-sex couple who are part of his congregation because he refused to officiate at their wedding.

Kenneth Barner and Scott Chappell have charged Rev Kelly Carpenter, pastor of Green Street church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, with “failure to perform the work of ministry”, according to the United Methodist News Service (UMNS). They also accuse him of “gender discrimination”.

Both are chargeable offences according to the UMC’s Book of Discipline. However, so is officiating at a same-sex wedding.

According to Barner and Chappell, the rules are contradictory. “God’s grace is available to all and so should the pastoral ministry (be)”, the charge says.


Read more at Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail

Do you think that church members should not be allowed to file complaints according to the church's own rules?

Here is a better article about it- with an accurate headline:

Gay couple files complaint for refusal of wedding

“I have initiated the proper response according to The Book of Discipline,” the bishop told UMNS. “Because this is now a personnel matter of the annual conference, it will need to remain confidential until further notice.”

As bishop, Goodpaster is charged with following a process that encourages finding a resolution that satisfies the bishop, the individuals lodging a complaint, and the one facing the complaint.

Carpenter said he didn’t know how the process would go “mostly because we are pretty much in agreement about the problem in the church. We need to figure that out.”

He said he thinks the church’s public witness in this dispute has the potential to be “uniting” for the congregation. Carpenter stressed that Barner and Chappell are serious about the complaint, but he commended them for finding a creative way designed not to harm the church.

Carpenter is sympathetic to the cause, saying: “If there was a way for me to be a co-signer with the complaint, I think it’s right on the money.

“It really calls out the contradictions in our Book of Discipline, which calls us to be ministry with all people.”


Read more at Methodist Church Pastor Sued for Refusing to Conduct Gay Marriage The Christian Mail

This is an internal church dispute- filed by church members.

Why would you object to that?

Same as all my other examples, it shows that gays are building up to suing churches to perform gay "marriages"

Why you deny it is probable in the future is beyond comprehension.

Actually I have said before- any idiot can file a law suit.

However- you posted an article with the headline that was inaccurate- about a situation that is not a lawsuit but an internal rules dispute within a church.

Your post was inaccurate- and you don't seem to care about your inaccuracy.

This is an internal church dispute- filed by church members.

Why would you object to that?

No sir , The thread title is accurate. He wasn't sued in court, because the church has a policy of self mediating such things, but he was sued.

I do admit , however, that it could mislead people who don't understand hat sued doesn't necessarily mean in civil court.

Oh it could be misleading since we were discussing law suits- and whether churches can be sued and the headline uses a term that is used almost exclusively for law suits- when this is an internal church dispute.

Once again:

This is an internal church dispute- filed by church members.

Why would you object to that?

You are of course prepared to show where I objected to that?

 

[Skylar]

If the bakers do not carry or provide the item the customer asks for, no laws are being broken.

Example One:

Customer walks into a gadget store and orders gadget out of catalog or off the shelf. Business sells gadget to person A but not person B because they don't like the religion of person B. Discrimination has occurred.

Example Two:

Customer walks into gadget store and asks for a non gadget item that the business does not nor have they ever provided. No discrimination has occurred.

You're such a dishonest piece of shit.

Bakeries who sell cakes advertise that they sell CUSTOM cakes. Have you EVER been to a bakery which only sold cakes that were actually on their display? Of course not you idiot.

You truly can't just be honest and say "those gay bakeries are in violation of the law as it stands" can you?

If it is a custom order, it is up to the discretion of the business as to whether or not they can or will do it. No discrimination occurred.

Customer A is straight, buys wedding cake. Customer B is gay is refused same exact cake. Discrimination

Customer A and B both order a custom made cake...business can refuse either or both. No discrimination.

Wrong moron, that's not how the law works

Jesus Christ educate yourself before you go arguing shit.

Who the fuck has EVER bought a wedding cake out of a display case? NO ONE , they are ALL custom cakes.

What I said and is true is that no business must provide an item that they do not already provide. And yes, wedding cakes are ordered out of a catalog, you dolt. You don't walk in with a fucking blueprint, Dumber than the Average Cockroach.

If you sell the product to Person A, you must also sell the product to Person B. It can't get any simpler than that and you still don't understand? That's so sad...

You are so stupid and dishonest.

Look at this link

Elegant Cakery. Porcelain Cake Toppers

show me where you see a wedding cake topper with two men or two women. You don't.

Should that bakery be forced to provide one should a gay couple want one?

As part of my business, I make cake toppers professionally. And many gay couples are willing to pay top dollar for my work.

 

[koshergrl]

When the state seeks to impose its will upon the churches of the land, bloodshed is a heartbeat away.

No. In our country, the state does not have the authority to dictate what the church must *allow*.

So if churches should be allowed refuse to marry homosexuals couples, should they be allowed to refuse to marry mixed race couples if it goes against their doctrine?

Yes. Separation of church and state. Right?

And if the church practices sharia law as part of their doctrine, would the state then have a right to intervene?

If a church 'practices' sharia law the state wouldn't care- so long as such practices don't conflict with secular law.

If the 'Sharia law' being practiced is illegal- it is illegal- and the state has every right to intervene.

No church practices sharia law.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

You're such a dishonest piece of shit.

Bakeries who sell cakes advertise that they sell CUSTOM cakes. Have you EVER been to a bakery which only sold cakes that were actually on their display? Of course not you idiot.

You truly can't just be honest and say "those gay bakeries are in violation of the law as it stands" can you?

If it is a custom order, it is up to the discretion of the business as to whether or not they can or will do it. No discrimination occurred.

Customer A is straight, buys wedding cake. Customer B is gay is refused same exact cake. Discrimination

Customer A and B both order a custom made cake...business can refuse either or both. No discrimination.

Wrong moron, that's not how the law works

Jesus Christ educate yourself before you go arguing shit.

Who the fuck has EVER bought a wedding cake out of a display case? NO ONE , they are ALL custom cakes.

What I said and is true is that no business must provide an item that they do not already provide. And yes, wedding cakes are ordered out of a catalog, you dolt. You don't walk in with a fucking blueprint, Dumber than the Average Cockroach.

If you sell the product to Person A, you must also sell the product to Person B. It can't get any simpler than that and you still don't understand? That's so sad...

You are so stupid and dishonest.

Look at this link

Elegant Cakery. Porcelain Cake Toppers

show me where you see a wedding cake topper with two men or two women. You don't.

Should that bakery be forced to provide one should a gay couple want one?

As part of my business, I make cake toppers professionally. And many gay couples are willing to pay top dollar for my work.

And that has WHAT to do with the question I asked SeaBytch?