Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Procrustes Stretched]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.

not-much-smarter-than-an-average-bear is not too smart at all

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.

And of course I only argue that it DOES and WILL happen, the idea that it won't is as silly as the claim that it will be widespread

 

[Skylar]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.

And of course I only argue that it DOES and WILL happen, the idea that it won't is as silly as the claim that it will be widespread

Which church has it happened? Or are you referring to someone, somewhere, insisting it should?

Check the poll results. They're in a distinct minority.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.

And of course I only argue that it DOES and WILL happen, the idea that it won't is as silly as the claim that it will be widespread

Which church has it happened? Or are you referring to someone, somewhere, insisting it should?

Check the poll results. They're in a distinct minority.

??? List of fallacies - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia ???

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.

And of course I only argue that it DOES and WILL happen, the idea that it won't is as silly as the claim that it will be widespread

Which church has it happened? Or are you referring to someone, somewhere, insisting it should?

Check the poll results. They're in a distinct minority.

Here's an idea, stop being dishonest. You've been in this thread the entire time I have, you know that what I've said is that I believe it WILL happen in the future, not that it IS happening now

 

[Skylar]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.

And of course I only argue that it DOES and WILL happen, the idea that it won't is as silly as the claim that it will be widespread

Which church has it happened? Or are you referring to someone, somewhere, insisting it should?

Check the poll results. They're in a distinct minority.

Here's an idea, stop being dishonest. You've been in this thread the entire time I have, you know that what I've said is that I believe it WILL happen in the future, not that it IS happening now

You say a lot of things. I'm asking you what you're saying now. Asking a question isn't dishonesty. Especially when you're being intentionally vague. What, pray tell, is 'it'?

 

[Seawytch]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.

Since she doesn't believe that churches should be forced by anyone other than their own congregation to accept people, she's NOT the "only one". Lots of people believe just as I do, that churches should be more accepting of gays and lesbians. In fact, it is a main reason cited by young people for not attending church.

Dumber than Fuck Bear is LYING...which I understand makes the baby Jesus cry.

 

[beagle9]

No I don't think that Christians will continue to have all their rights as they have enjoyed in the past in America, because Christians won't be able to freely separate themselves from sin any longer, and this as they have always sought after in their beliefs, and in their religion to therefore separate themselves from SIN..

You're asking for a special exemption, where public accomidation laws don't apply to you. If Muslims refused to serve Christians using the same rationale, your ilk would likely scream like crushed cats. And of course, if Christianity can be used to trump civil law, why couldn't anyone beliefs be used to trump it? For example, Sharia law would trump civil law per your reasoning.

Where as the solution to the problem is remarkably simple: quit making it an issue. This only becomes a problem when someone tries to poke their nose into someone else's private life. If you don't like homosexuality, don't practice it. But denying service, goods, housing, employment to gays and lesbians because you don't like homosexuality is punishing them for your religious beliefs. And that's a step too far.

They have done this as best that they can in order that it doesn't consume them nor their religion in which they do live by as Christians.

How does selling cake 'consume' someone? If you suddenly have the urge to suck a dick after selling a cake, I'm pretty sure the two aren't connected.

Christians have the same rights and privileges as anyone else. What you're demanding are special exemptions that no one else has, where you can ignore the civil law of your choice based on your religious beliefs.

Um, no. Generally applicable civil law applies to everyone.

And what I highlighted above, is exactly what has been happening with these attacks on Christianity or the culture of Christianity all over the place now in America, where as in order to change something one must first try and change the culture, the people, their religion and so on and so forth, and the only way to do that is to invade the very area in which makes them tick (their private lives, belief systems, religion, and even what they had built across this nation over time). If anyone thinks that movements aren't in play to change many things in this nation, then what hole have they been living in for far to long now ?

 

[beagle9]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.

Since she doesn't believe that churches should be forced by anyone other than their own congregation to accept people, she's NOT the "only one". Lots of people believe just as I do, that churches should be more accepting of gays and lesbians. In fact, it is a main reason cited by young people for not attending church.

Dumber than Fuck Bear is LYING...which I understand makes the baby Jesus cry.

And because of the unlearned or inexperience of young people, this nation should change everything for them ? Since when did the day care start being run by the children instead of by the adults ? What's going to be crazy is when the young people someday wake up and realize that they have been duped. Then what ?

 

[Seawytch]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.

Since she doesn't believe that churches should be forced by anyone other than their own congregation to accept people, she's NOT the "only one". Lots of people believe just as I do, that churches should be more accepting of gays and lesbians. In fact, it is a main reason cited by young people for not attending church.

Dumber than Fuck Bear is LYING...which I understand makes the baby Jesus cry.

And because of the unlearned or inexperience of young people, this nation should change everything for them ? Since when did the day care start being run by the children instead of by the adults ? What's going to be crazy is when the young people someday wake up and realize that they have been duped. Then what ?

Churches need a congregation. When the old bigots die off, somebody's butt has to fill the seats (and the collection plate). Churches are becoming more gay friendly because if they don't, they'll be preaching to emptier and emptier seats.

Churches will be forced to change, rightfully so, but it won't be by the government.

 

[Skylar]

And what I highlighted above, is exactly what has been happening with these attacks on Christianity or the culture of Christianity all over the place now in America, where as in order to change something one must first try and change the culture, the people, their religion and so on and so forth, and the only way to do that is to invade the very area in which makes them tick (their private lives, belief systems, religion, and even what they had built across this nation over time). If anyone thinks that movements aren't in play to change many things in this nation, then what hole have they been living in for far to long now ?

[/quote]

Obvious nonsense. No one is prying into your private life or cares what you believe. You can be a Christian, a Hindu, or a Fascist Anarchist for all anyone cares. As long as you treat your customers fairly and equally in business.

You are the one prying into a customer's private life, something as intimate as their sex life and based on that alone refusing to do business with them. Its none of your business how they get their nut. It has nothing to do with your business. You still need to treat them fairly and equally.

You're desperate to cast yourself as a victim because we won't treat Christians differently than we do everyone else. That Christians are subject to the same laws as everyone else. Sorry, but your religion doesn't trump civil law. You don't get special exemptions from the law anymore than Muslims, Atheists or Pastafarians. If you want to do business with the public, you need to treat your customers fairly and equally. Its not that complicated.

 

[Skylar]

And because of the unlearned or inexperience of young people, this nation should change everything for them ? Since when did the day care start being run by the children instead of by the adults ? What's going to be crazy is when the young people someday wake up and realize that they have been duped. Then what ?

Or....perhaps they'll grow into adults who don't retain the pointless discriminatory instincts and naked bigotry of previous generations. Just as your generation did when putting behind them the shameless bigotry against race that riddled the generations before you. Its unlikely that you're going to 'wake up' and suddenly start to institute segregation or Jim Crow laws.

Its equally unlikely that young people are going to suddenly wake up and decide they need to start discriminating against gays for no particular reason.

In another generation we're going to look back at attitudes such as yours with the same dumbfounded wonder and incomprehension as we do now listening to Wallace and his 'segregation now, segregation forever' speeches. And ask ourselves how people could have been so foolish back then.

 

[Skylar]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.

Since she doesn't believe that churches should be forced by anyone other than their own congregation to accept people, she's NOT the "only one". Lots of people believe just as I do, that churches should be more accepting of gays and lesbians. In fact, it is a main reason cited by young people for not attending church.

Dumber than Fuck Bear is LYING...which I understand makes the baby Jesus cry.

Then scratch Seawytch. Who then is advocating churches having to accommodate gay weddings against the wills? I'm sure someone, somewhere, at sometime will eventually back this position. But I have yet to meet them.

 

[Skylar]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.

Since she doesn't believe that churches should be forced by anyone other than their own congregation to accept people, she's NOT the "only one". Lots of people believe just as I do, that churches should be more accepting of gays and lesbians. In fact, it is a main reason cited by young people for not attending church.

Dumber than Fuck Bear is LYING...which I understand makes the baby Jesus cry.

And because of the unlearned or inexperience of young people, this nation should change everything for them ? Since when did the day care start being run by the children instead of by the adults ? What's going to be crazy is when the young people someday wake up and realize that they have been duped. Then what ?

Churches need a congregation. When the old bigots die off, somebody's butt has to fill the seats (and the collection plate). Churches are becoming more gay friendly because if they don't, they'll be preaching to emptier and emptier seats.

Churches will be forced to change, rightfully so, but it won't be by the government.

I've been the churches where they are still preaching fire and brimstone at the gays. I lowered the average age by 10 years just by walking in.

 

[Syriusly]

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.

Since she doesn't believe that churches should be forced by anyone other than their own congregation to accept people, she's NOT the "only one". Lots of people believe just as I do, that churches should be more accepting of gays and lesbians. In fact, it is a main reason cited by young people for not attending church.

Dumber than Fuck Bear is LYING...which I understand makes the baby Jesus cry.

And because of the unlearned or inexperience of young people, this nation should change everything for them ? Since when did the day care start being run by the children instead of by the adults ? What's going to be crazy is when the young people someday wake up and realize that they have been duped. Then what ?

Churches need a congregation. When the old bigots die off, somebody's butt has to fill the seats (and the collection plate). Churches are becoming more gay friendly because if they don't, they'll be preaching to emptier and emptier seats.

Churches will be forced to change, rightfully so, but it won't be by the government.

I've been the churches where they are still preaching fire and brimstone at the gays. I lowered the average age by 10 years just by walking in.

yep not one poster has suggested that Churches be 'forced' to marry any persons- homosexual, jew, black, Canadian- against the policy or will of the church.

No church should or will be forced to marry anyone against its will.

Just a scare tactic by homophobes to incite resentment towards homosexuals.

 

[Silhouette]

yep not one poster has suggested that Churches be 'forced' to marry any persons- homosexual, jew, black, Canadian- against the policy or will of the church.

No church should or will be forced to marry anyone against its will.

Just a scare tactic by homophobes to incite resentment towards homosexuals.

Again, the church resides within the breast of each man. And since religious men have been sued by LGBT lifestyle faddists repeatedly, there is zero expectation that the last audacious step of this breach of the First Amendment won't cross into the congregational halls of those religious men. What's the difference? Some wood, siding, glass, nails, cloth and pews?

The church of LGBT will attack and force christian organizations to participate in the promotion of their subculture over the christian one. The epitome of that is so-called "gay marriage". What better way to usurp a culture than by replacing the core of it with your own warped value system? Once one church that is diametrically opposed to the core edicts of another, forces its submission legally to promote itself instead, that other faith had ceased to be. You cannot defy the core edicts of a faith and still have it be alive. At that point it is dead.

And this is PRECISELY what homosexual activists haven't even been shy about stating as their objective. They have already taken strides and delivered on promises to do exactly that. The lawsuits against bakers, photographers and caterers are just the tip of an iceberg with horns and a forked tail heading straight at the good ship christianity. The bulk of it lies just outside the view under the sea.

 

[Skylar]

Again, the church resides within the breast of each man. And since religious men have been sued by LGBT lifestyle faddists repeatedly, there is zero expectation that the last audacious step of this breach of the First Amendment won't cross into the congregational halls of those religious men. What's the difference? Some wood, siding, glass, nails, cloth and pews?

You may want to read the OP again:

This question can apply to all places of worship, so mosques, synagogues, hindu temples etc.

Should places or worship be forced to accommodate for gay weddings?

Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And the answer is no. They shouldn't. No one so far has advocated such.

The 'religious men' being sued by LGBT folks are business people that refuse to serve gays and lesbians in violation of local and state laws.

Not churches forced to accommodate gay weddings. And thus another one of your argument falls victim to the actual meaning of words.

 

[Silhouette]

You may want to read the OP again:

This question can apply to all places of worship, so mosques, synagogues, hindu temples etc.

Should places or worship be forced to accommodate for gay weddings?

Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And the answer is no. They shouldn't. No one so far has advocated such.

The 'religious men' being sued by LGBT folks are business people that refuse to serve gays and lesbians in violation of local and state laws.

Not churches forced to accommodate gay weddings. And thus another one of your argument falls victim to the actual meaning of words.

1. Again, a "temple" is the heart of a religious man. Not a building, wood, nails etc.

2. Being a business person is a religious man's SECONDARY function. His primary function is a religious man. You cannot make secular law superior to freedom of religion. Not in this country.

There are your legal obstacles. Good luck overcoming them.

Oh, and there's a third obstacle...

3. Gay lifestyles do not qualify for "civil rights", unless they themselves want to be recognized as a religion. Non-religious lifestyles do not have legal power to force anyone to promote them over their own religion..

 

[Skylar]

The church of LGBT will attack and force christian organizations to participate in the promotion of their subculture over the christian one.

Doing business with someone isn't 'promoting their lifestyle'. Its promoting the good or service being sold. Not the customer.

Next.

The epitome of that is so-called "gay marriage". What better way to usurp a culture than by replacing the core of it with your own warped value system? Once one church that is diametrically opposed to the core edicts of another, forces its submission legally to promote itself instead, that other faith had ceased to be. You cannot defy the core edicts of a faith and still have it be alive. At that point it is dead.

The obvious problem with that reasoning being that gay marriage isn't particularly warped. You just don't like it. Which doesn't form the basis of our laws, nor should.

And there's no portion of the Bible that says a thing about doing business with gays, or not. Or prohibits the sale of cake to gay people.

If your faith is based exclusively on your right to deny gay people access to cake, you may want to reexamine your faith.

And this is PRECISELY what homosexual activists haven't even been shy about stating as their objective. They have already taken strides and delivered on promises to do exactly that. The lawsuits against bakers, photographers and caterers are just the tip of an iceberg with horns and a forked tail heading straight at the good ship christianity. The bulk of it lies just outside the view under the sea.

Says the guy who lamented about the end of civilization and nuclear meltdowns if we treated an ebola patient in the US, and raged against a coup in California with the prop 8 being overturned.

You are our board's resident drama queen. And your predictions of future outcome are less accurate than guessing. Making your latest round of prognostications a rather firm indication of what's likely NOT to happen.

 

[Skylar]

1. Again, a "temple" is the heart of a religious man. Not a building, wood, nails etc.

Says you. Back in reality, words have actual meanings. And you are not a synagogue or a mosque Silo. Nor are you legally recognized as such by any law, state or court.

Though at least you're not longer pretending that your religion isn't the basis of your opposition to gay marriage. So that's progress of a sort, I suppose.

2. Being a business person is a religious man's SECONDARY function. His primary function is a religious man. You cannot make secular law superior to freedom of religion. Not in this country.

When he's conducting business, he's a business man.

There are your legal obstacles. Good luck overcoming them.

No, that's your latest round of pseudo-legal gibberish. And it has no relevance to our system of law as you just made it up. Remember, Silo...and this point is fundamental: legally speaking, you're essentially clueless. You have no idea how the law works.

And your imagination on how the law 'oughta work' has no particular relevance to how it actually does.

3. Gay lifestyles do not qualify for "civil rights", unless they themselves want to be recognized as a religion. Non-religious lifestyles do not have legal power to force anyone to promote them over their own religion..

You do realize that this latest piece of pseudo-legal nonsense doesn't actually exist in any law, nor stand as a requirement for anyone, right? I'm sure you believe that whatever you make up is legally binding....but it really isn't.

As the 'the gay lifestyle must be recognized as a religion for gays to have civil rights' standard was pulled sideways out of your ass. And is legally meaningless, as no such requirement exists.

And if you don't believe that the rights of gays are protected, might I recommend you read the Lawrence v. Texas, Romer v. Evans and Windsor v. US rulings. Where Justice Kennedy will systematically disabuse you of your misconceptions.....with the recognition of the rights of gays becoming stronger with each successive ruling.

You can ignore the courts. But you can't make us or the USSC justices ignore them. Which is why you continue to fail.