Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Carib Gyal]

No, churches shouldn't be forced to accommodate any ceremony they object to.

I agree.

Being a smarty I see, and if you want to say what I say, then it best you quote me directly or you are in violation of the forum rules. Got it..

Yes.

 

[Skylar]

You can rant all you want, and come up with every angle that you want just like me, but what goes on today is something way different than most in this nation were ready to deal with, and so it may be that the laws might be revisited in order to give protections to Christians in this nation also.

You can rant all you want, and come up with every angle that you want just like me, but what goes on today is something way different than most in this nation were ready to deal with, and so it may be that the laws might be revisited in order to give protections to Christians in this nation also.

And our 'Christian nation' has withstood changes in our law that defied the 'will of god' according to some people.

Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.

Judge Leon Bazile

People got used to it when interracial marriage was overturned, despite it being done in defiance of 'God's will' according to those who claimed to speak for God. It took until the 90s before a majority recognized interracial marriage as valid. We're in luck....as for gay marriage, support precedes its universal legalization, with support for gay marriage outpacing opposition by 12 to 19 points.

As for revising the law to 'protect Christians', why should they receive any special treatment? Christians, like Muslims, Atheists, Hindus, Jews and anyone else, should be treated equally in the law. They should have all the laws protections, but no more or less than anyone else.

guess all people want their cake (lifestyle), and I guess as the old saying goes they want to eat (live) it too. Hey I know that I am particular about who bakes my family a cake in life, and aren't we all ? It just leads me to think that the cake baker may have been targeted just like Phil of Duck Dynasty was, and so on and on and so forth it all goes in this nation right ?

You're free to say whatever you're want. You're not free to avoid personal consequence for what you say. Phil offended some folks. That offense may have cost him. Just like it would anyone else.

I agree that everyone has a right to live free and prosperous in this nation, and all have a right to protections under the laws of course, but isn't it that we should all be able to live together without invading each others lives and spaces if we don't have to so much ?

Going into a public business and attempting to buy a good or service the business already sells is hardly 'invading one's life'.

What happened to respecting each others religions, cultures, spaces, lives and privacy in this nation ? Is that even possible anymore ?

Sure it is. If you sell cake, sell cake. Its none of your business what someone wants to do with it.

 

[Silhouette]

I keep seeing the comparison of race to gay lifestyles and cannot for the life of me gather how they are even remotely the same thing. They aren't even distant legal cousins.

 

[Syriusly]

I apologize to yall, as I had to stop and watch the episode of "Miracle on 34th Street', the original 1947 version, and I apologize for not editing my last post before I left.... uggh. What we need now in this nation, is a savy lawyer like Khris Kringle had in which I saw depicted in that show, then maybe we could get back on some solid footing once again in this nation. I swear I'm living in the wrong time period I think.

I love that movie.

But again- your issue is not needing a savvy lawyer- it is you disagree with certain laws.

The answer is to try to change the laws that you disagree with.

 

[Syriusly]

I keep seeing the comparison of race to gay lifestyles and cannot for the life of me gather how they are even remotely the same thing. They aren't even distant legal cousins.

You will never understand how discrimination against homosexuals is not appropriate.

 

[Syriusly]

In the eyes of a Christian who makes the cake, well it's more than just a cake.

And the eyes of the law, there's no such thing as 'gay cake'. Its just cake. That you imagine a distinction that doesn't exist doesn't mean that the laws are obligated to similarly imagine with you. If you sell cake, you sell cake.

If you're going to do business in many states, you'll need to meet minimum codes of conduct in commerce, treating your customers fairly and equally.

Anyone who would challenge God's people in these ways is pure evil, and that is what I see taking place today, and it won't stop until the Christians are pushed all the way into a small little tiny square, then these people will be happy in life, and not before hand. Watch for more actions in the future, because the push is far from over in this nation.

Says you. And you're hardly an arbiter of god's will or morality. I've checked the bible. It doesn't have a thing to say about cake. Nor does it demand that you don't do business with homosexuals. That's you. Citing you. To which I reply....

.....so what?

Its hardly evil to treat people like people....with basic human dignity, fairness and equality.

You can rant all you want, and come up with every angle that you want just like me, but what goes on today is something way different than most in this nation were ready to deal with, and so it may be that the laws might be revisited in order to give protections to Christians in this nation also. I mean hey why not, it would be just like all these other groups whom want the government to give them special rights above and beyond another now, and even if it abuses another's rights when doing so, they still press onward in it all.

Christians have all of the same rights as anyone else.

For instance- no one can refuse to provide service to a Christian because of his religion.

Why do you think that Christians need special protections beyond everyone else?

 

[Skylar]

I keep seeing the comparison of race to gay lifestyles and cannot for the life of me gather how they are even remotely the same thing. They aren't even distant legal cousins.

You keep using the same arguments, almost word for word, that the opponents of interracial marriage used. Stop using their arguments and I'll stop mentioning that you're using their arguments.

Deal?

 

[beagle9]

In the eyes of a Christian who makes the cake, well it's more than just a cake.

And the eyes of the law, there's no such thing as 'gay cake'. Its just cake. That you imagine a distinction that doesn't exist doesn't mean that the laws are obligated to similarly imagine with you. If you sell cake, you sell cake.

If you're going to do business in many states, you'll need to meet minimum codes of conduct in commerce, treating your customers fairly and equally.

Anyone who would challenge God's people in these ways is pure evil, and that is what I see taking place today, and it won't stop until the Christians are pushed all the way into a small little tiny square, then these people will be happy in life, and not before hand. Watch for more actions in the future, because the push is far from over in this nation.

Says you. And you're hardly an arbiter of god's will or morality. I've checked the bible. It doesn't have a thing to say about cake. Nor does it demand that you don't do business with homosexuals. That's you. Citing you. To which I reply....

.....so what?

Its hardly evil to treat people like people....with basic human dignity, fairness and equality.

You can rant all you want, and come up with every angle that you want just like me, but what goes on today is something way different than most in this nation were ready to deal with, and so it may be that the laws might be revisited in order to give protections to Christians in this nation also. I mean hey why not, it would be just like all these other groups whom want the government to give them special rights above and beyond another now, and even if it abuses another's rights when doing so, they still press onward in it all.

Christians have all of the same rights as anyone else.

For instance- no one can refuse to provide service to a Christian because of his religion.

Why do you think that Christians need special protections beyond everyone else?

No I don't think that Christians will continue to have all their rights as they have enjoyed in the past in America, because Christians won't be able to freely separate themselves from sin any longer, and this as they have always sought after in their beliefs, and in their religion to therefore separate themselves from SIN.. They have done this as best that they can in order that it doesn't consume them nor their religion in which they do live by as Christians. And so it is that sin possibly will consume them in the end, along with their children as well. It will continue to creep forward these things till finally at the gates will there then stand those who want the Christians therefore put into a final box, while outside the box it will change into something that is unrecognizable by most who had come before them, and for those whom do live now. All one has to do is look around, and one can see these things in real time as we speak, and yes the Bible does speak or tell us of these things that which are yet to come, and many are forming right before our very eyes.

 

[Syriusly]

In the eyes of a Christian who makes the cake, well it's more than just a cake.

And the eyes of the law, there's no such thing as 'gay cake'. Its just cake. That you imagine a distinction that doesn't exist doesn't mean that the laws are obligated to similarly imagine with you. If you sell cake, you sell cake.

If you're going to do business in many states, you'll need to meet minimum codes of conduct in commerce, treating your customers fairly and equally.

Anyone who would challenge God's people in these ways is pure evil, and that is what I see taking place today, and it won't stop until the Christians are pushed all the way into a small little tiny square, then these people will be happy in life, and not before hand. Watch for more actions in the future, because the push is far from over in this nation.

Says you. And you're hardly an arbiter of god's will or morality. I've checked the bible. It doesn't have a thing to say about cake. Nor does it demand that you don't do business with homosexuals. That's you. Citing you. To which I reply....

.....so what?

Its hardly evil to treat people like people....with basic human dignity, fairness and equality.

You can rant all you want, and come up with every angle that you want just like me, but what goes on today is something way different than most in this nation were ready to deal with, and so it may be that the laws might be revisited in order to give protections to Christians in this nation also. I mean hey why not, it would be just like all these other groups whom want the government to give them special rights above and beyond another now, and even if it abuses another's rights when doing so, they still press onward in it all.

Christians have all of the same rights as anyone else.

For instance- no one can refuse to provide service to a Christian because of his religion.

Why do you think that Christians need special protections beyond everyone else?

No I don't think that Christians will continue to have all their rights as they have enjoyed in the past in America, because Christians won't be able to freely separate themselves from sin any longer, and this as they have always sought after in their beliefs, and in their religion to therefore separate themselves from SIN.. They have done this as best that they can in order that it doesn't consume them nor their religion in which they do live by as Christians. And so it is that sin possibly will consume them in the end, along with their children as well. It will continue to creep forward these things till finally at the gates will there then stand those who want the Christians therefore put into a final box, while outside the box it will change into something that is unrecognizable by most who had come before them, and for those whom do live now. All one has to do is look around, and one can see these things in real time as we speak, and yes the Bible does speak or tell us of these things that which are yet to come, and many are forming right before our very eyes.

And in that way Christians are no different from anyone else.

Everyone judges things about who should do what.

But- as I pointed out Christians have all the same rights as everyone else.

You apparently want some sort of special exemption for Christians.

 

[beagle9]

In the eyes of a Christian who makes the cake, well it's more than just a cake.

And the eyes of the law, there's no such thing as 'gay cake'. Its just cake. That you imagine a distinction that doesn't exist doesn't mean that the laws are obligated to similarly imagine with you. If you sell cake, you sell cake.

If you're going to do business in many states, you'll need to meet minimum codes of conduct in commerce, treating your customers fairly and equally.

Anyone who would challenge God's people in these ways is pure evil, and that is what I see taking place today, and it won't stop until the Christians are pushed all the way into a small little tiny square, then these people will be happy in life, and not before hand. Watch for more actions in the future, because the push is far from over in this nation.

Says you. And you're hardly an arbiter of god's will or morality. I've checked the bible. It doesn't have a thing to say about cake. Nor does it demand that you don't do business with homosexuals. That's you. Citing you. To which I reply....

.....so what?

Its hardly evil to treat people like people....with basic human dignity, fairness and equality.

You can rant all you want, and come up with every angle that you want just like me, but what goes on today is something way different than most in this nation were ready to deal with, and so it may be that the laws might be revisited in order to give protections to Christians in this nation also. I mean hey why not, it would be just like all these other groups whom want the government to give them special rights above and beyond another now, and even if it abuses another's rights when doing so, they still press onward in it all.

Christians have all of the same rights as anyone else.

For instance- no one can refuse to provide service to a Christian because of his religion.

Why do you think that Christians need special protections beyond everyone else?

No I don't think that Christians will continue to have all their rights as they have enjoyed in the past in America, because Christians won't be able to freely separate themselves from sin any longer, and this as they have always sought after in their beliefs, and in their religion to therefore separate themselves from SIN.. They have done this as best that they can in order that it doesn't consume them nor their religion in which they do live by as Christians. And so it is that sin possibly will consume them in the end, along with their children as well. It will continue to creep forward these things till finally at the gates will there then stand those who want the Christians therefore put into a final box, while outside the box it will change into something that is unrecognizable by most who had come before them, and for those whom do live now. All one has to do is look around, and one can see these things in real time as we speak, and yes the Bible does speak or tell us of these things that which are yet to come, and many are forming right before our very eyes.

And in that way Christians are no different from anyone else.

Everyone judges things about who should do what.

But- as I pointed out Christians have all the same rights as everyone else.

You apparently want some sort of special exemption for Christians.

Why not, isn't that what everyone else wants these days ? Also if the Christians are under attack as I see that they are, then yes the rules or laws should change or work better in order to protect the rights of the Christians in this nation, just like any other. I'm telling you bro, they along with their religion are under attack now in this nation (being driven from the public square), but it seems that we are in a lull due to all in which has transpired lately on the other fronts and/or issues that are being dealt with now in America. The other issues may even serve as a temporary distraction at the moment, but that's just what they are a temporary distraction that will remain to find out that these issues will remain hot also in peoples minds just as well. The attacks will continue sadly enough, and this is well because they always have in this nation, so stay tuned for more action on the religious front verses the wild and whacky secular front, because just as soon as the Protest issues calm down, and things seem back to what ever normal means to anyone anymore in this nation. The attacks along the Christian front will continue by these people in this nation who are against Christians, and for whom have been engaging in such attacks against (the Christian right), forever and a day now it seems..

 

[Syriusly]

And the eyes of the law, there's no such thing as 'gay cake'. Its just cake. That you imagine a distinction that doesn't exist doesn't mean that the laws are obligated to similarly imagine with you. If you sell cake, you sell cake.

If you're going to do business in many states, you'll need to meet minimum codes of conduct in commerce, treating your customers fairly and equally.

Says you. And you're hardly an arbiter of god's will or morality. I've checked the bible. It doesn't have a thing to say about cake. Nor does it demand that you don't do business with homosexuals. That's you. Citing you. To which I reply....

.....so what?

Its hardly evil to treat people like people....with basic human dignity, fairness and equality.

You can rant all you want, and come up with every angle that you want just like me, but what goes on today is something way different than most in this nation were ready to deal with, and so it may be that the laws might be revisited in order to give protections to Christians in this nation also. I mean hey why not, it would be just like all these other groups whom want the government to give them special rights above and beyond another now, and even if it abuses another's rights when doing so, they still press onward in it all.

Christians have all of the same rights as anyone else.

For instance- no one can refuse to provide service to a Christian because of his religion.

Why do you think that Christians need special protections beyond everyone else?

No I don't think that Christians will continue to have all their rights as they have enjoyed in the past in America, because Christians won't be able to freely separate themselves from sin any longer, and this as they have always sought after in their beliefs, and in their religion to therefore separate themselves from SIN.. They have done this as best that they can in order that it doesn't consume them nor their religion in which they do live by as Christians. And so it is that sin possibly will consume them in the end, along with their children as well. It will continue to creep forward these things till finally at the gates will there then stand those who want the Christians therefore put into a final box, while outside the box it will change into something that is unrecognizable by most who had come before them, and for those whom do live now. All one has to do is look around, and one can see these things in real time as we speak, and yes the Bible does speak or tell us of these things that which are yet to come, and many are forming right before our very eyes.

And in that way Christians are no different from anyone else.

Everyone judges things about who should do what.

But- as I pointed out Christians have all the same rights as everyone else.

You apparently want some sort of special exemption for Christians.

Why not, isn't that what everyone else wants these days ? Also if the Christians are under attack as I see that they are, then yes the rules or laws should change or work better in order to protect the rights of the Christians in this nation, just like any other. I'm telling you bro, they along with their religion are under attack now in this nation (being driven from the public square)..

I think you protesteth too much.

Merry Christmas and may everyone's 2015 be filled with love and joy.

 

[beagle9]

You can rant all you want, and come up with every angle that you want just like me, but what goes on today is something way different than most in this nation were ready to deal with, and so it may be that the laws might be revisited in order to give protections to Christians in this nation also. I mean hey why not, it would be just like all these other groups whom want the government to give them special rights above and beyond another now, and even if it abuses another's rights when doing so, they still press onward in it all.

Christians have all of the same rights as anyone else.

For instance- no one can refuse to provide service to a Christian because of his religion.

Why do you think that Christians need special protections beyond everyone else?

No I don't think that Christians will continue to have all their rights as they have enjoyed in the past in America, because Christians won't be able to freely separate themselves from sin any longer, and this as they have always sought after in their beliefs, and in their religion to therefore separate themselves from SIN.. They have done this as best that they can in order that it doesn't consume them nor their religion in which they do live by as Christians. And so it is that sin possibly will consume them in the end, along with their children as well. It will continue to creep forward these things till finally at the gates will there then stand those who want the Christians therefore put into a final box, while outside the box it will change into something that is unrecognizable by most who had come before them, and for those whom do live now. All one has to do is look around, and one can see these things in real time as we speak, and yes the Bible does speak or tell us of these things that which are yet to come, and many are forming right before our very eyes.

And in that way Christians are no different from anyone else.

Everyone judges things about who should do what.

But- as I pointed out Christians have all the same rights as everyone else.

You apparently want some sort of special exemption for Christians.

Why not, isn't that what everyone else wants these days ? Also if the Christians are under attack as I see that they are, then yes the rules or laws should change or work better in order to protect the rights of the Christians in this nation, just like any other. I'm telling you bro, they along with their religion are under attack now in this nation (being driven from the public square)..

I think you protesteth too much.

Merry Christmas and may everyone's 2015 be filled with love and joy.

Right back at cha, and lets hope that the good Lord shall continue to shed his blessings and mercy upon all in the world, as he giveth hope unto the world's people for another year that all is not forgotten or lost in the world, and who so ever shall believe upon him and his name shall not perish. Amen!

 

[Skylar]

No I don't think that Christians will continue to have all their rights as they have enjoyed in the past in America, because Christians won't be able to freely separate themselves from sin any longer, and this as they have always sought after in their beliefs, and in their religion to therefore separate themselves from SIN..

You're asking for a special exemption, where public accomidation laws don't apply to you. If Muslims refused to serve Christians using the same rationale, your ilk would likely scream like crushed cats. And of course, if Christianity can be used to trump civil law, why couldn't anyone beliefs be used to trump it? For example, Sharia law would trump civil law per your reasoning.

Where as the solution to the problem is remarkably simple: quit making it an issue. This only becomes a problem when someone tries to poke their nose into someone else's private life. If you don't like homosexuality, don't practice it. But denying service, goods, housing, employment to gays and lesbians because you don't like homosexuality is punishing them for your religious beliefs. And that's a step too far.

They have done this as best that they can in order that it doesn't consume them nor their religion in which they do live by as Christians.

How does selling cake 'consume' someone? If you suddenly have the urge to suck a dick after selling a cake, I'm pretty sure the two aren't connected.

Christians have the same rights and privileges as anyone else. What you're demanding are special exemptions that no one else has, where you can ignore the civil law of your choice based on your religious beliefs.

Um, no. Generally applicable civil law applies to everyone.

 

[Silhouette]

How does selling cake 'consume' someone? If you suddenly have the urge to suck a dick after selling a cake, I'm pretty sure the two aren't connected.

Christians have the same rights and privileges as anyone else. What you're demanding are special exemptions that no one else has, where you can ignore the civil law of your choice based on your religious beliefs.

Um, no. Generally applicable civil law applies to everyone.

How would you tell a christian to promote homosexual culture by making a "gay wedding cake" or catering a "gay wedding", while at the same time that christian knows from Jude 1 that to do so is certain banishment to the pit of fire for eternity?

How would you ask a christian person to square that up? This isn't eating pork on friday....and a slap on the wrist. Promoting gay lifestyles/culture is a major mortal sin for christians. There is no gray area. It's right there in the New Testament...

"Thou Shalt NOT" "PERIOD". That is Jude 1 summed up. God feels very strongly about these type of social maladies becoming mainstreamed with a leg up from well-meaning or too passive "Sunday-only" christians. Reading Jude 1 that is more than amply evident.

 

[Skylar]

How would you tell a christian to promote homosexual culture by making a "gay wedding cake" or catering a "gay wedding", while at the same time that christian knows from Jude 1 that to do so is certain banishment to the pit of fire for eternity?

And how is selling a cake promoting anything? Its cake. Jude 1 doesn't say a thing about selling wedding cake. Nor say a thing about 'banishment into the pits of fire for eternity' for selling cake.

That would be you, pretending to be God.

Your religious beliefs don't exempt you from generally applicable law. Its entirely reasonable for the State to mandate those doing business in their jurisdiction to adhere to minimum standards of fairness and equality. And if your State has such a standard, then you should treat all customers fairly and equally.

"We don't serve your kind here'' may have been a common sentiment in the not to distant south. But its far less acceptable now. Even when you try and use your religion as your justification for such sentiments....as your ilk did when arguing against interracial marriage.

This isn't eating pork on friday....and a slap on the wrist. Promoting gay lifestyles/culture is a major mortal sin for christians. There is no gray area. It's right there in the New Testament...

Doing business with gays isn't 'promoting the gay lifestyle', anymore than selling a Muslim a sandwich is promoting Islam. If you sell cake, you're promoting cake. Not the customer.

You've 'reimagined' the word promote to justify any discrimination you want to pile upon anyone for anything they do that you don't agree with. Your personal religious beliefs don't exempt you from generally applicable civil law.

If they did, then Sharia would apply as surely as your interpretation of Jude 1.

"Thou Shalt NOT" "PERIOD". That is Jude 1 summed up.

And where does it say 'thou shalt not sell cake to homosexuals'? There's no prohibition from selling cake, or doing business with anyone in the Bible. You've completely imagined it. And then insist that your imagination trumps civil law.

It doesn't.

God feels very strongly about these type of social maladies becoming mainstreamed with a leg up from well-meaning or too passive "Sunday-only" christians. Reading Jude 1 that is more than amply evident.

God doesn't say a thing about doing business with homosexuals. That would be you.

 

[Syriusly]

How does selling cake 'consume' someone? If you suddenly have the urge to suck a dick after selling a cake, I'm pretty sure the two aren't connected.

Christians have the same rights and privileges as anyone else. What you're demanding are special exemptions that no one else has, where you can ignore the civil law of your choice based on your religious beliefs.

Um, no. Generally applicable civil law applies to everyone.

How would you tell a christian to promote homosexual culture by making a "gay wedding cake" or catering a "gay wedding", while at the same time that christian knows from Jude 1 that to do so is certain banishment to the pit of fire for eternity?

How would you ask a christian person to square that up? This isn't eating pork on friday....and a slap on the wrist. Promoting gay lifestyles/culture is a major mortal sin for christians. There is no gray area. It's right there in the New Testament...

"Thou Shalt NOT" "PERIOD". That is Jude 1 summed up. God feels very strongly about these type of social maladies becoming mainstreamed with a leg up from well-meaning or too passive "Sunday-only" christians. Reading Jude 1 that is more than amply evident.

Pork on Friday? Seriously what religion do you think has a problem with that?

Eating pork is a major 'sin' for both Jews and Muslims- it violates the Old Testament laws. Now what are 'major' and 'minor' sins to Christians? We know that adultery is a 'major sin'- Jesus talked about adultery often. Should good Christians refuse to do business with anyone who is having sex while unmarried? Should the Cable TV guy refuse to hook up the cable if there is an unmarried couple living in an Apartment.

What about divorce- Jesus himself tells Christians that remarriage after divorce is adultery unless the woman(only the woman) had committed adultery. IF a Christian knows that a person is ordering a wedding cake for a second marriage- is that Christian Baker obligated- under penalty of eternal damnation- not to sell that wedding cake?


Oh and nothing in Jude 1 about not selling cakes to homosexuals.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I keep seeing the comparison of race to gay lifestyles and cannot for the life of me gather how they are even remotely the same thing. They aren't even distant legal cousins.

You will never understand how discrimination against homosexuals is not appropriate.

And you will never understand how "I don't think that's appropriate" doesn't automatically translate to "Therefore, it should be illegal."

I don't think Speedos on obese, hairy men are "appropriate", but that doesn't mean I'm leading a crusade to make it illegal.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

 

[Skylar]

Who is demanding
Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

SeaBytch has, oh sure she claims that she only wants to use peer pressure to do so, but that's dishonest. Peer pressure doesn't force anything

And she would be pretty much the only one. Its an issue that some Christians have soiled themselves in fear of. Some even making up claims of imminent arrest and prosecution for violating local ordinances if they don't marry gays. But it just hasn't happened.

And shouldn't.