Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Gadawg73]

Doesn't matter anyway sports fans.
Same as now that Navy Seal can serve openly as a gay man in the military and the lies about how that would cause "unit cohesion to break down" that Navy Seal will be able to marry his partner now legally.
And it will have ZERO effect on everyone's heterosexual marriage and on society.
Get over it, no matter how many lies and bull shit claims you make it is going to happen.
Move to Iran, they do it your way over there. They hold up a Book and claim it teaches them to condemn gay folks.

What part of "I don't care" did you not get?

First, the military has an extremely high control over public relations, as any government agency does. Whatever problems homosexuality in the military has, will be buried for as long as they can cover it.

But let's even say you are right.

"I do not care"

Not trying to be insulting.... I don't care.

Whether homosexuality causes millions of problems, or zero problems.... I don't care.

Whether you think I should get over it or not... I don't care.

Whether you think I should move to Iran or not.... I don't care.

Your opinion on my view of Homosexuality has ZERO value to me. Again, not trying to be insulting.... just trying to be transparent. I will DIE over this issue. You can march me to the electric chair, and I will still hold the same view up to the moment you throw the switch.

I won't change. Not for you. Not for society. Not for the government. Not for the constitution. Not for any Earthly reason you can come up with.

Don't care what you think. Too bad. Thanks for stopping by.

You care a lot.
Your post was long.

 

[Gadawg73]

If you had read the Bible, you wouldn't be asking that question.

LOL, I went to a private military school from 1966-1968 and religion class was mandatory.
There is NO Christian LAW condemning homosexuality.
The Bible's authors condemned homosexuality and that came from ancient cultures and Jewish law.
Jesus was A JEW. He did not follow Old Jewish Law concerning homosexuality as he accepted everyone.

Thanks, that's all I needed to know. You opinion has been filed away in the oval bin of my mind.

So back to me and my church.... Homosexuality is a sin. We won't have homosexual weddings, and no homosexual will be on our staff. Period.

Have a nice day.

I support that and your right to do that.
And that will never change per the Constitution.
NO church now is forced to marry anyone.
So you do not oppose other churches marrying gay folks as that is not your church.
Got it.

 

[Gadawg73]

I oppose, and it would never happen anyway, ever, government mandates forcing churches to marry anyone.
Because I support The Constitution.
And as a supporter of the Constitution I also oppose government banning gays from getting married.

You can not have it both ways based on religious beliefs.
You believe homosexuality is a sin then I support your church not ever having to marry gay folk.
But that gives you NO right to stop other churches from marrying gay folk.

 

[Gadawg73]

Religious know it all higher than thou types get really pissed when they are stopped from throwing their moral guidance mandates out and expecting us to support government to enforce them.

Ain't going to happen so get over it.

 

[Redfish]

LOL, I went to a private military school from 1966-1968 and religion class was mandatory.
There is NO Christian LAW condemning homosexuality.
The Bible's authors condemned homosexuality and that came from ancient cultures and Jewish law.
Jesus was A JEW. He did not follow Old Jewish Law concerning homosexuality as he accepted everyone.

Thanks, that's all I needed to know. You opinion has been filed away in the oval bin of my mind.

So back to me and my church.... Homosexuality is a sin. We won't have homosexual weddings, and no homosexual will be on our staff. Period.

Have a nice day.

I support that and your right to do that.
And that will never change per the Constitution.
NO church now is forced to marry anyone.
So you do not oppose other churches marrying gay folks as that is not your church.
Got it.

How many of you gay marriage supporters are petitioning mosques and islamic mullahs to perform gay marriages in islam?

You are fine with forcing Christian and Jewish churches and synagoges to marry gays, but you are silent on islamic treatement of gays.

Why is it off limits for liberals to criticize anything about muslims?

question 2----why did obama participate in the muslim day of prayer and cancel the non-denominational national day of prayer?

 

[Redfish]

I oppose, and it would never happen anyway, ever, government mandates forcing churches to marry anyone.
Because I support The Constitution.
And as a supporter of the Constitution I also oppose government banning gays from getting married.

You can not have it both ways based on religious beliefs.
You believe homosexuality is a sin then I support your church not ever having to marry gay folk.
But that gives you NO right to stop other churches from marrying gay folk.

Sorry dude, I understand your position, but "gay marriage" is an oxymoron.

I agree that gays should be able to enter into a legally binding union that gives them inheritence and tax rights, but it is not, and will never be, a marriage.

 

[Andylusion]

Doesn't matter anyway sports fans.
Same as now that Navy Seal can serve openly as a gay man in the military and the lies about how that would cause "unit cohesion to break down" that Navy Seal will be able to marry his partner now legally.
And it will have ZERO effect on everyone's heterosexual marriage and on society.
Get over it, no matter how many lies and bull shit claims you make it is going to happen.
Move to Iran, they do it your way over there. They hold up a Book and claim it teaches them to condemn gay folks.

What part of "I don't care" did you not get?

First, the military has an extremely high control over public relations, as any government agency does. Whatever problems homosexuality in the military has, will be buried for as long as they can cover it.

But let's even say you are right.

"I do not care"

Not trying to be insulting.... I don't care.

Whether homosexuality causes millions of problems, or zero problems.... I don't care.

Whether you think I should get over it or not... I don't care.

Whether you think I should move to Iran or not.... I don't care.

Your opinion on my view of Homosexuality has ZERO value to me. Again, not trying to be insulting.... just trying to be transparent. I will DIE over this issue. You can march me to the electric chair, and I will still hold the same view up to the moment you throw the switch.

I won't change. Not for you. Not for society. Not for the government. Not for the constitution. Not for any Earthly reason you can come up with.

Don't care what you think. Too bad. Thanks for stopping by.

You care a lot.
Your post was long.

Sorry. Still don't. You can keep repeating, and I can keep repeating. You will never change my view on this.

 

[Andylusion]

Religious know it all higher than thou types get really pissed when they are stopped from throwing their moral guidance mandates out and expecting us to support government to enforce them.

Ain't going to happen so get over it.

I have no intention of trying to force you to do anything.

I am making it absolutely 100% clear.... my church... will *NEVER* accept homosexuality. Period. Never.

The topic of this thread is NOT... 'should churches force everyone to be hetrosexual'.

I would not be on such a thread.

The topic of this thread *IS*.... 'should churches be forced to accommodate for homosexuals'.

The answer to that question is not relevant to me.... because we are *not* going to do it. Period.

Don't care what you think the Bible says. Not going to do it.
Don't care what the law says. Not going to do it.
Don't care what you think of 'higher than thou' people. Not going to do it.

Are you getting the idea? We are not going to follow your dictates. Period. Don't care what you think. Not going to happen.

 

[Redfish]

Religious know it all higher than thou types get really pissed when they are stopped from throwing their moral guidance mandates out and expecting us to support government to enforce them.

Ain't going to happen so get over it.

I have no intention of trying to force you to do anything.

I am making it absolutely 100% clear.... my church... will *NEVER* accept homosexuality. Period. Never.

The topic of this thread is NOT... 'should churches force everyone to be hetrosexual'.

I would not be on such a thread.

The topic of this thread *IS*.... 'should churches be forced to accommodate for homosexuals'.

The answer to that question is not relevant to me.... because we are *not* going to do it. Period.

Don't care what you think the Bible says. Not going to do it.
Don't care what the law says. Not going to do it.
Don't care what you think of 'higher than thou' people. Not going to do it.

Are you getting the idea? We are not going to follow your dictates. Period. Don't care what you think. Not going to happen.

but, but, but what if you offend someone, or hurt their widdle feeeeeeeeeeeellings ?

 

[Andylusion]

Religious know it all higher than thou types get really pissed when they are stopped from throwing their moral guidance mandates out and expecting us to support government to enforce them.

Ain't going to happen so get over it.

I have no intention of trying to force you to do anything.

I am making it absolutely 100% clear.... my church... will *NEVER* accept homosexuality. Period. Never.

The topic of this thread is NOT... 'should churches force everyone to be hetrosexual'.

I would not be on such a thread.

The topic of this thread *IS*.... 'should churches be forced to accommodate for homosexuals'.

The answer to that question is not relevant to me.... because we are *not* going to do it. Period.

Don't care what you think the Bible says. Not going to do it.
Don't care what the law says. Not going to do it.
Don't care what you think of 'higher than thou' people. Not going to do it.

Are you getting the idea? We are not going to follow your dictates. Period. Don't care what you think. Not going to happen.

but, but, but what if you offend someone, or hurt their widdle feeeeeeeeeeeellings ?

Then I'd be following in the foot steps of Jesus Christ.... which.... did the same thing when he was alive.

Truth hurts. That's why people hate the truth.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Churches and religious institutions should be taxed as any other business unless they can prove what money they used to help in charity . Then we can say there is separation of church and state.

When people donate to religious groups, it's tax-deductible. Churches don't pay property taxes on their land or buildings. When they buy stuff, they don't pay sales taxes. When they sell stuff at a profit, they don't pay capital gains tax. If they spend less than they take in, they don't pay corporate income taxes. Priests, ministers, rabbis and Imams get "parsonage exemptions" that let them deduct mortgage payments, rent and other living expenses when they're doing their income taxes. They also are the only group allowed to opt out of Social Security taxes . The estimate is a total subsidy at $71 billion year.

Tell me you did not just suggest that allowing people to pay less tax, is us "subsidizing" them?

Often when examining a complex problem it's much easier to break it down into a simplified model to show how a system works.

Baseline:
1. Let's say there is a community that consist of 10 buildings.
2. 9 Buildings are owned by individuals and 1 Building is owned by a religious organization.
3. The community provides roads, police and fire to each building which costs $10,000 per year or $1,000 per building. (Don't nit-pic the numbers which are chosen to provide the scenario's, look at the flow of logic instead.)


Scenario #1:
Individuals owning the buildings use the roads provided by the community, in the event of a crime each can call for police assistance, and in the event of a fire each can call the Fire Department. Each of the 10 buildings is taxed at a rate of $1,000 per year to reach the required $10,000 to bay the community bill.

Scenario #2:
Individuals owning the buildings use the roads provided by the community, in the event of a crime each can call for police assistance, and in the event of a fire each can call the Fire Department. The bill of $10,000 per year for the community remains the same, however the religious organization is tax exempt - they do not pay the $1,000 to support the services to which they have access. Therefore the $10,000 bill is not divided amongst the 10 using the services, instead it is divided between remaining 9 meaning they pay $1111.11 per year.

Conclusion:
It it logically consistent to point out that under #1 there is no "subsidy" since each is paying an equal share for the services rendered. It is also logically consistent to point out that under #2 the one tax exempt entity is being subsidized by the other 9 since they enjoy the same services yet do not pay the taxes that support the services.


*************************

NOTE: The above is an examination of logic and does not indicate whether I think religious organizations or other tax exempt entities should receive tax breaks on baseline taxes (property & sales) or revenue taxes (income & profit from sales).



>>>>

 

[Seawytch]

Yes, because the Church has such a history of knuckling under to peer pressure.

Yes, churches do have a history of changing due to public opinion...interracial marriage is a prime example. What church is "The Church"...The Catholic Church? Even this new Pope is less, shall we say, "antagonistic" than previous Pontiffs when it comes to "the gheys".

Here in the good old U S of A, Catholics are among the strongest supporters of marriage equality. The evangelicals are bringing up the rear...again. I imagine they were among the last to let "those people" {the blacks} into their churches too.

In the end, churches need butts in the seats. Old crusty anti gay attitudes are dying off...and if their kids won't go to church because they're nasty and bigoted,the church will go out of "business".

That you do not know the difference between your use of the word "churches" and my use of the phrase "the Church" just illustrates that you're too busy self-righteously demonizing those who disagree with you to bother educating yourself about them and understanding them.

Ignorance is never a winning strategy, which is why tyrannical fucktards like you disappear onto the ashheap of history and the Church continues on.

That you decide to be a nasty twat and not actually address any of the points I made, leads me to believe I hit the nail on the head.

Even "the Church" won't be able to survive on just 3rd world money...it will need money from places like the US that thinks gays should be treated equally and they want their gay loved ones to worship alongside them.

Among Americans who left their childhood religion and are now religiously unaffiliated, about one-quarter say negative teachings about or treatment of gay and lesbian people was a somewhat important (14%) or very important (10%) factor in their decision to disaffiliate. Among Millennials who no longer identify with their childhood religion, nearly one-third say that negative teachings about, or treatment of, gay and lesbian people was either a somewhat important (17%) or very important (14%) factor in their disaffiliation from religion.​

A Decade of Change in American Attitudes about Same-Sex Marriage and LGBT Issues

Here's an opinion from a Millennial:

What millennials really want from the church is not a change in style but a change in substance.

We want an end to the culture wars. We want a truce between science and faith. We want to be known for what we stand for, not what we are against.

We want to ask questions that don’t have predetermined answers.

We want churches that emphasize an allegiance to the kingdom of God over an allegiance to a single political party or a single nation.

We want our LGBT friends to feel truly welcome in our faith communities.

We want to be challenged to live lives of holiness, not only when it comes to sex, but also when it comes to living simply, caring for the poor and oppressed, pursuing reconciliation, engaging in creation care and becoming peacemakers.

You can’t hand us a latte and then go about business as usual and expect us to stick around. We’re not leaving the church because we don’t find the cool factor there; we’re leaving the church because we don’t find Jesus there.​

This is why His Holiness, Pope Frankie has been modifying the Church's position regarding gays. The part of the world with all the cash, doesn't hate the gays so much.

 

[Redfish]

Yes, churches do have a history of changing due to public opinion...interracial marriage is a prime example. What church is "The Church"...The Catholic Church? Even this new Pope is less, shall we say, "antagonistic" than previous Pontiffs when it comes to "the gheys".

Here in the good old U S of A, Catholics are among the strongest supporters of marriage equality. The evangelicals are bringing up the rear...again. I imagine they were among the last to let "those people" {the blacks} into their churches too.

In the end, churches need butts in the seats. Old crusty anti gay attitudes are dying off...and if their kids won't go to church because they're nasty and bigoted,the church will go out of "business".

That you do not know the difference between your use of the word "churches" and my use of the phrase "the Church" just illustrates that you're too busy self-righteously demonizing those who disagree with you to bother educating yourself about them and understanding them.

Ignorance is never a winning strategy, which is why tyrannical fucktards like you disappear onto the ashheap of history and the Church continues on.

That you decide to be a nasty twat and not actually address any of the points I made, leads me to believe I hit the nail on the head.

Even "the Church" won't be able to survive on just 3rd world money...it will need money from places like the US that thinks gays should be treated equally and they want their gay loved ones to worship alongside them.

Among Americans who left their childhood religion and are now religiously unaffiliated, about one-quarter say negative teachings about or treatment of gay and lesbian people was a somewhat important (14%) or very important (10%) factor in their decision to disaffiliate. Among Millennials who no longer identify with their childhood religion, nearly one-third say that negative teachings about, or treatment of, gay and lesbian people was either a somewhat important (17%) or very important (14%) factor in their disaffiliation from religion.​

A Decade of Change in American Attitudes about Same-Sex Marriage and LGBT Issues

Here's an opinion from a Millennial:

What millennials really want from the church is not a change in style but a change in substance.

We want an end to the culture wars. We want a truce between science and faith. We want to be known for what we stand for, not what we are against.

We want to ask questions that don’t have predetermined answers.

We want churches that emphasize an allegiance to the kingdom of God over an allegiance to a single political party or a single nation.

We want our LGBT friends to feel truly welcome in our faith communities.

We want to be challenged to live lives of holiness, not only when it comes to sex, but also when it comes to living simply, caring for the poor and oppressed, pursuing reconciliation, engaging in creation care and becoming peacemakers.

You can’t hand us a latte and then go about business as usual and expect us to stick around. We’re not leaving the church because we don’t find the cool factor there; we’re leaving the church because we don’t find Jesus there.​

This is why His Holiness, Pope Frankie has been modifying the Church's position regarding gays. The part of the world with all the cash, doesn't hate the gays so much.

you left muslim, hindu, shinto, buddist, and several others off your chart.

"pope frankie" come on wytch. thats below even you.

 

[Seawytch]

No, the point is that the religious stance will change over time, just like it has changed on the pork issue

Um, no the "pork issue" didn't "change over time", dumbass. Either read the book, or stop commenting on it. I'm not getting paid to give your worthless, ignorant ass Sunday School lessons. If you don't even know why Christians don't observe the same dietary rules that observant Jews do, then you have exactly two things to say on the subject of Christianity: Jack and shit . . . Jack just left town, and the latter is what you just posted.

Wait...didn't the Church modify it's position regarding meat on Fridays? Anyone munching a burger on Friday used to go to purgatory didn't they?

All places of worship modify their positions over time due to changing societal norms. They adapt or die.

 

[Seawytch]

you left muslim, hindu, shinto, buddist, and several others off your chart.

"pope frankie" come on wytch. thats below even you.

I would imagine that the numbers were too few to register.

Why is Pope Frankie below me? I'm not Catholic. I'm not worried about burning in hell. I should give the Pope more respect than ya'll give the President because why?

 

[Peach]

you left muslim, hindu, shinto, buddist, and several others off your chart.

"pope frankie" come on wytch. thats below even you.

I would imagine that the numbers were too few to register.

Why is Pope Frankie below me? I'm not Catholic. I'm not worried about burning in hell. I should give the Pope more respect than ya'll give the President because why?

Pope Francis stated quite clearly: "Who am I to judge"? I agree with him(.) No, no house of worship should be forced to allow same gender marriage; it is to be hoped, as time passes, more & more will. Civil marriage must be for all of sound mind, legal age, and without ulterior motive.

 

[Seawytch]

you left muslim, hindu, shinto, buddist, and several others off your chart.

"pope frankie" come on wytch. thats below even you.

I would imagine that the numbers were too few to register.

Why is Pope Frankie below me? I'm not Catholic. I'm not worried about burning in hell. I should give the Pope more respect than ya'll give the President because why?

Pope Francis stated quite clearly: "Who am I to judge"? I agree with him(.) No, no house of worship should be forced to allow same gender marriage; it is to be hoped, as time passes, more & more will. Civil marriage must be for all of sound mind, legal age, and without ulterior motive.

Bingo. More and more people are "hoping" for their churches to be inclusive of their gay loved ones and fewer will attend the churches they don't find that inclusiveness in.

 

[Peach]

I would imagine that the numbers were too few to register.

Why is Pope Frankie below me? I'm not Catholic. I'm not worried about burning in hell. I should give the Pope more respect than ya'll give the President because why?

Pope Francis stated quite clearly: "Who am I to judge"? I agree with him(.) No, no house of worship should be forced to allow same gender marriage; it is to be hoped, as time passes, more & more will. Civil marriage must be for all of sound mind, legal age, and without ulterior motive.

Bingo. More and more people are "hoping" for their churches to be inclusive of their gay loved ones and fewer will attend the churches they don't find that inclusiveness in.

Yes, some will find faiths that accept all as children of God(.)

 

[Silhouette]

That you decide to be a nasty twat and not actually address any of the points I made, leads me to believe I hit the nail on the head.

Even "the Church" won't be able to survive on just 3rd world money...it will need money from places like the US that thinks gays should be treated equally and they want their gay loved ones to worship alongside them.

Among Americans who left their childhood religion and are now religiously unaffiliated, about one-quarter say negative teachings about or treatment of gay and lesbian people was a somewhat important (14%) or very important (10%) factor in their decision to disaffiliate. Among Millennials who no longer identify with their childhood religion, nearly one-third say that negative teachings about, or treatment of, gay and lesbian people was either a somewhat important (17%) or very important (14%) factor in their disaffiliation from religion.​

A Decade of Change in American Attitudes about Same-Sex Marriage and LGBT Issues

Here's an opinion from a Millennial:

What millennials really want from the church is not a change in style but a change in substance.

We want an end to the culture wars. We want a truce between science and faith. We want to be known for what we stand for, not what we are against.

We want to ask questions that don’t have predetermined answers.

We want churches that emphasize an allegiance to the kingdom of God over an allegiance to a single political party or a single nation.

We want our LGBT friends to feel truly welcome in our faith communities.

We want to be challenged to live lives of holiness, not only when it comes to sex, but also when it comes to living simply, caring for the poor and oppressed, pursuing reconciliation, engaging in creation care and becoming peacemakers.

You can’t hand us a latte and then go about business as usual and expect us to stick around. We’re not leaving the church because we don’t find the cool factor there; we’re leaving the church because we don’t find Jesus there.​

This is why His Holiness, Pope Frankie has been modifying the Church's position regarding gays. The part of the world with all the cash, doesn't hate the gays so much.

Two things:

1. I hope Pope "Frankie" or one of his advisors has read your post. And I hope the Imams of the world are reading it too.

2. With all the popular support you claim exists for the cult of LGBT, or just the forcing of churches internal foundation doctrines to accomodate heresy to placate the masses, why does the poll at the top of this page show 86% of people believing churches & mosques should not have to perform gay marriages? [86% don't really suppport gay marriage as much as they say in public]?

 

[Silhouette]

Yes, some will find faiths that accept all as children of God(.)

OK, here is where your ignorance of the Bible and Jesus' teachings becomes glaringly apparent. Jesus taught that all men are God's children. But he in no way shape or form taught that what all men DO is sanctioned or approved of by God.

And herein lies the danger of allowing youthful idiots access to redaction tools for the 1,000's year old christian faith.

I offer Jude 1 as an example. Jude travelled everywhere with Jesus and heard his teachings first hand on an almost daily basis. The message below says in a nutshell "love your bretheren when they are foul, but in no way encourage their foulness. Because if you do, you're going to the pit with them". In other words, there are certain behaviors that God forbids to spread in a culture as "norms". One of them happens to be homosexuality. Because even way way back then, it's uncanny how closely the tactics of "smooth speech" and "complaining" the gays did to try to normalize what they did in Sodom. And we can see where it got that civilization. Everyone went to the Pit. Even those that just ignored God's words and weren't gay themselves. Even if they just enabled the LGBT takeover in their town, they went down...

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Basically this direct, non-nonsense commmandment and warning of punishment for the mortal sin of enabling homosexuality says at its end "do whatever it takes, but drag them away from their insanity...save them....save them with compassion and/or fear". And "earnestly contend" for this to happen. If you don't you're going to the Pit with them.


The very fact that homosexuals are trying to change that is what it warns in the very body of its own text. [See underlined text in Jude 1 above] Their smooth speeches are at this instant as I type this trying to dethrone the christian faith precisely because they've read Jude 1 and are "complaining it isn't fair". God isn't fair and doesn't give these commandments lightly. Religion isn't always about touchy-feeling feel good stuff. It's about keeping your head between the fence posts. It's about discipline with compassion. Never one without the other..