Should Detroit's municipal retirees lose their pensions?

[thanatos144]

I got to thinking about this..... I think maybe I haven't been making my position as clear as it can be.... Mostly cause it pisses me off seeing liberaltarians high fiveing each other over the misfortune of others....Reminds me to much of democrats cause they both act childish.

My position is that I wish the state of Michigan figure out a way to lessen to devastation this bankruptcy is going to cause on things LIKE pensions.... I never once thought it was a good idea for a federal bailout. Now many kept accusing me of this mostly cause they were idiots who couldn't read or were to caught up in their own ignorant biases. Things like this needs adult minds to work out not childish ha ha gotcha stupidity. No adult wants to see people starve or homeless and if you think this isnt going to happen you are not thinking straight.....Now this is going to happen regardless of what people do but that doesnt mean we have to make it worse.

While I do realize that municipal authority in states flows DOWN from the state to the localities, I still do not see why this has to be Michigan's problem as opposed to Detroit's problem. In fact, once it becomes Michigan's problem it is almost a guarantee to transition to a federal problem, as Michigan's finances are not in the greatest of shape either.

If there is "glee" to be felt from the right on this, it is the sole fact that people on the right side of the economic spectrum have been saying this is going to happen for decades. I see it as less glee (although on a message board you are going to get that) and more grim vindication of what sane people have been saying all along: the current system of large city public unions and public pension systems cannot hold.

There is no Detroit....There is just a bankrupt city. They are kids who found out that credit cards have limits. The state should act the adult for its citizens because the city isn't.

 

[thanatos144]

Why doesn't the left care about economics?

Because Supply & Demand magically doesn't work when government is involved.

it doesn't really work with government. Supply and demand works when there is no monopolies.

 

[thanatos144]

I got to thinking about this..... I think maybe I haven't been making my position as clear as it can be.... Mostly cause it pisses me off seeing liberaltarians high fiveing each other over the misfortune of others....Reminds me to much of democrats cause they both act childish.

My position is that I wish the state of Michigan figure out a way to lessen to devastation this bankruptcy is going to cause on things LIKE pensions.... I never once thought it was a good idea for a federal bailout. Now many kept accusing me of this mostly cause they were idiots who couldn't read or were to caught up in their own ignorant biases. Things like this needs adult minds to work out not childish ha ha gotcha stupidity. No adult wants to see people starve or homeless and if you think this isnt going to happen you are not thinking straight.....Now this is going to happen regardless of what people do but that doesnt mean we have to make it worse.

how is anybody going to starve etc. when there are federal food stamps and other forms of aid......?
this is all working out according to the lefties grand plan....

so you believe it is the federal governments job to look out for Michigan citizens?

 

[thanatos144]

I got to thinking about this..... I think maybe I haven't been making my position as clear as it can be.... Mostly cause it pisses me off seeing liberaltarians high fiveing each other over the misfortune of others....Reminds me to much of democrats cause they both act childish.

My position is that I wish the state of Michigan figure out a way to lessen to devastation this bankruptcy is going to cause on things LIKE pensions.... I never once thought it was a good idea for a federal bailout. Now many kept accusing me of this mostly cause they were idiots who couldn't read or were to caught up in their own ignorant biases. Things like this needs adult minds to work out not childish ha ha gotcha stupidity. No adult wants to see people starve or homeless and if you think this isnt going to happen you are not thinking straight.....Now this is going to happen regardless of what people do but that doesnt mean we have to make it worse.

I'm not happy people are suffering, but the fact is the money is not there to pay these people their pensions, at least at the levels they want an for as long as they want. Detroit's tax base is too small to cover current expenses much less past expenses.

Math doesn't lie.

and you got that from what I posted? You think I am looking for some magical money pot to appear?

 

[thanatos144]

I got to thinking about this..... I think maybe I haven't been making my position as clear as it can be.... Mostly cause it pisses me off seeing liberaltarians high fiveing each other over the misfortune of others....Reminds me to much of democrats cause they both act childish.

My position is that I wish the state of Michigan figure out a way to lessen to devastation this bankruptcy is going to cause on things LIKE pensions.... I never once thought it was a good idea for a federal bailout. Now many kept accusing me of this mostly cause they were idiots who couldn't read or were to caught up in their own ignorant biases. Things like this needs adult minds to work out not childish ha ha gotcha stupidity. No adult wants to see people starve or homeless and if you think this isnt going to happen you are not thinking straight.....Now this is going to happen regardless of what people do but that doesnt mean we have to make it worse.

The poor fools who bought Detroit bonds are going to lose everything. They will be equally as devastated as the pensioners. People make bad decisions. The people who looked at Detroit, knew that it had a poor financial picture and didn't go to work for the city. They left the city. They didn't buy Detroit municipal bonds, they bought some other city's bonds instead. The pensioners were nothing more than investors. They invested years of employment instead of life savings. They have a secured debt, like every other secured debt. They are no different than Enron investors who lost everything when Enron went down. Whatever can be done for them, as secured creditors, will be done, just like it's done for all the other secured creditors.

again this boils down to this..... If your lied to is it your fault or the liar???? Cause we all know in this the liar gets off free as a bird. Also does the state have responsibility to its citizens?

 

[bripat9643]

I got to thinking about this..... I think maybe I haven't been making my position as clear as it can be.... Mostly cause it pisses me off seeing liberaltarians high fiveing each other over the misfortune of others....Reminds me to much of democrats cause they both act childish.

My position is that I wish the state of Michigan figure out a way to lessen to devastation this bankruptcy is going to cause on things LIKE pensions.... I never once thought it was a good idea for a federal bailout. Now many kept accusing me of this mostly cause they were idiots who couldn't read or were to caught up in their own ignorant biases. Things like this needs adult minds to work out not childish ha ha gotcha stupidity. No adult wants to see people starve or homeless and if you think this isnt going to happen you are not thinking straight.....Now this is going to happen regardless of what people do but that doesnt mean we have to make it worse.

While I do realize that municipal authority in states flows DOWN from the state to the localities, I still do not see why this has to be Michigan's problem as opposed to Detroit's problem. In fact, once it becomes Michigan's problem it is almost a guarantee to transition to a federal problem, as Michigan's finances are not in the greatest of shape either.

If there is "glee" to be felt from the right on this, it is the sole fact that people on the right side of the economic spectrum have been saying this is going to happen for decades. I see it as less glee (although on a message board you are going to get that) and more grim vindication of what sane people have been saying all along: the current system of large city public unions and public pension systems cannot hold.

There is no Detroit....There is just a bankrupt city. They are kids who found out that credit cards have limits. The state should act the adult for its citizens because the city isn't.

Why should taxpayers in other cities have to pay for the irresponsibility of Detroit politicians and city employees?

 

[bripat9643]

Why doesn't the left care about economics?

Because Supply & Demand magically doesn't work when government is involved.

it doesn't really work with government. Supply and demand works when there is no monopolies.

The only monopolies that have ever existed in this country were all enforced by the government.

 

[bripat9643]

I got to thinking about this..... I think maybe I haven't been making my position as clear as it can be.... Mostly cause it pisses me off seeing liberaltarians high fiveing each other over the misfortune of others....Reminds me to much of democrats cause they both act childish.

My position is that I wish the state of Michigan figure out a way to lessen to devastation this bankruptcy is going to cause on things LIKE pensions.... I never once thought it was a good idea for a federal bailout. Now many kept accusing me of this mostly cause they were idiots who couldn't read or were to caught up in their own ignorant biases. Things like this needs adult minds to work out not childish ha ha gotcha stupidity. No adult wants to see people starve or homeless and if you think this isnt going to happen you are not thinking straight.....Now this is going to happen regardless of what people do but that doesnt mean we have to make it worse.

I'm not happy people are suffering, but the fact is the money is not there to pay these people their pensions, at least at the levels they want an for as long as they want. Detroit's tax base is too small to cover current expenses much less past expenses.

Math doesn't lie.

and you got that from what I posted? You think I am looking for some magical money pot to appear?

No. You are looking to the state or federal government to financially rape a lot of innocent people who had nothing to do with this debacle.

 

[thanatos144]

While I do realize that municipal authority in states flows DOWN from the state to the localities, I still do not see why this has to be Michigan's problem as opposed to Detroit's problem. In fact, once it becomes Michigan's problem it is almost a guarantee to transition to a federal problem, as Michigan's finances are not in the greatest of shape either.

If there is "glee" to be felt from the right on this, it is the sole fact that people on the right side of the economic spectrum have been saying this is going to happen for decades. I see it as less glee (although on a message board you are going to get that) and more grim vindication of what sane people have been saying all along: the current system of large city public unions and public pension systems cannot hold.

There is no Detroit....There is just a bankrupt city. They are kids who found out that credit cards have limits. The state should act the adult for its citizens because the city isn't.

Why should taxpayers in other cities have to pay for the irresponsibility of Detroit politicians and city employees?

Listen carefully my ignorant slave nation loving friend they need to figure that our for themselves.I know to you acting like Americans and not hateful confederates is hard for you to understand but at a certain point you have to choose to ether be an adult or a selfish child.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I got to thinking about this..... I think maybe I haven't been making my position as clear as it can be.... Mostly cause it pisses me off seeing liberaltarians high fiveing each other over the misfortune of others....Reminds me to much of democrats cause they both act childish.

My position is that I wish the state of Michigan figure out a way to lessen to devastation this bankruptcy is going to cause on things LIKE pensions.... I never once thought it was a good idea for a federal bailout. Now many kept accusing me of this mostly cause they were idiots who couldn't read or were to caught up in their own ignorant biases. Things like this needs adult minds to work out not childish ha ha gotcha stupidity. No adult wants to see people starve or homeless and if you think this isnt going to happen you are not thinking straight.....Now this is going to happen regardless of what people do but that doesnt mean we have to make it worse.

While I do realize that municipal authority in states flows DOWN from the state to the localities, I still do not see why this has to be Michigan's problem as opposed to Detroit's problem. In fact, once it becomes Michigan's problem it is almost a guarantee to transition to a federal problem, as Michigan's finances are not in the greatest of shape either.

If there is "glee" to be felt from the right on this, it is the sole fact that people on the right side of the economic spectrum have been saying this is going to happen for decades. I see it as less glee (although on a message board you are going to get that) and more grim vindication of what sane people have been saying all along: the current system of large city public unions and public pension systems cannot hold.

There is no Detroit....There is just a bankrupt city. They are kids who found out that credit cards have limits. The state should act the adult for its citizens because the city isn't.

And there are liberals who discovered they can't buy oceanfront property in Arizona.

 

[thanatos144]

Because Supply & Demand magically doesn't work when government is involved.

it doesn't really work with government. Supply and demand works when there is no monopolies.

The only monopolies that have ever existed in this country were all enforced by the government.

Go back to school please and learn reading comprehension.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I got to thinking about this..... I think maybe I haven't been making my position as clear as it can be.... Mostly cause it pisses me off seeing liberaltarians high fiveing each other over the misfortune of others....Reminds me to much of democrats cause they both act childish.

My position is that I wish the state of Michigan figure out a way to lessen to devastation this bankruptcy is going to cause on things LIKE pensions.... I never once thought it was a good idea for a federal bailout. Now many kept accusing me of this mostly cause they were idiots who couldn't read or were to caught up in their own ignorant biases. Things like this needs adult minds to work out not childish ha ha gotcha stupidity. No adult wants to see people starve or homeless and if you think this isnt going to happen you are not thinking straight.....Now this is going to happen regardless of what people do but that doesnt mean we have to make it worse.

how is anybody going to starve etc. when there are federal food stamps and other forms of aid......?
this is all working out according to the lefties grand plan....

so you believe it is the federal governments job to look out for Michigan citizens?

no.....but if we can send aid to children in Bangladesh we can certainly send aid to starving children in Detroit....

Democrat rule is similar to socialist/communist/fascist rule.....everybody winds up poor except for the few at the top....when that happens there will be no federal aid for anybody...

you are seeing it happen before your very eyes in Detroit....this is the same plan Obama has for the rest of America....

 

[thanatos144]

While I do realize that municipal authority in states flows DOWN from the state to the localities, I still do not see why this has to be Michigan's problem as opposed to Detroit's problem. In fact, once it becomes Michigan's problem it is almost a guarantee to transition to a federal problem, as Michigan's finances are not in the greatest of shape either.

If there is "glee" to be felt from the right on this, it is the sole fact that people on the right side of the economic spectrum have been saying this is going to happen for decades. I see it as less glee (although on a message board you are going to get that) and more grim vindication of what sane people have been saying all along: the current system of large city public unions and public pension systems cannot hold.

There is no Detroit....There is just a bankrupt city. They are kids who found out that credit cards have limits. The state should act the adult for its citizens because the city isn't.

And there are liberals who discovered they can't buy oceanfront property in Arizona.

True. A harsh new reality is dawning. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look after each other the best we can.

 

[thanatos144]

I'm not happy people are suffering, but the fact is the money is not there to pay these people their pensions, at least at the levels they want an for as long as they want. Detroit's tax base is too small to cover current expenses much less past expenses.

Math doesn't lie.

and you got that from what I posted? You think I am looking for some magical money pot to appear?

No. You are looking to the state or federal government to financially rape a lot of innocent people who had nothing to do with this debacle.

Do you have a problem with freedom and the ability for a state and its people to make up their own mind???? Of course you do I forgot your heroes are slavers.

 

[thanatos144]

how is anybody going to starve etc. when there are federal food stamps and other forms of aid......?
this is all working out according to the lefties grand plan....

so you believe it is the federal governments job to look out for Michigan citizens?

no.....but if we can send aid to children in Bangladesh we can certainly send aid to starving children in Detroit....

Democrat rule is similar to socialist/communist/fascist rule.....everybody winds up poor except for the few at the top....when that happens there will be no federal aid for anybody...

you are seeing it happen before your very eyes in Detroit....this is the same plan Obama has for the rest of America....

I fully know and understand why Detroit fell... Probably more then most seeing as I grew up right fucking next to the city. I know what the leaches of unions and racist crooked democrats wrought. All I said is that the state needs to see if they should and can help.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

so you believe it is the federal governments job to look out for Michigan citizens?

no.....but if we can send aid to children in Bangladesh we can certainly send aid to starving children in Detroit....

Democrat rule is similar to socialist/communist/fascist rule.....everybody winds up poor except for the few at the top....when that happens there will be no federal aid for anybody...

you are seeing it happen before your very eyes in Detroit....this is the same plan Obama has for the rest of America....

I fully know and understand why Detroit fell... Probably more then most seeing as I grew up right fucking next to the city. I know what the leaches of unions and racist crooked democrats wrought. All I said is that the state needs to see if they should and can help.

after the bankruptcy they can step in and help people all they want...

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Their union reps and the dem politicians who were in their pockets should have to fund them. Or be shit out of luck.

 

[bripat9643]

There is no Detroit....There is just a bankrupt city. They are kids who found out that credit cards have limits. The state should act the adult for its citizens because the city isn't.

Why should taxpayers in other cities have to pay for the irresponsibility of Detroit politicians and city employees?

Listen carefully my ignorant slave nation loving friend they need to figure that our for themselves.I know to you acting like Americans and not hateful confederates is hard for you to understand but at a certain point you have to choose to ether be an adult or a selfish child.

The well is dry, knucklehead. They can't get that kind of money out of the citizens of Detroit, not without causing a mass exodus, and then they are back in the same fix.

Unless the state or federal governments shake down innocent citizens in other cities or states, Detroit is not going to pay off the pensions it promised.

 

[thanatos144]

no.....but if we can send aid to children in Bangladesh we can certainly send aid to starving children in Detroit....

Democrat rule is similar to socialist/communist/fascist rule.....everybody winds up poor except for the few at the top....when that happens there will be no federal aid for anybody...

you are seeing it happen before your very eyes in Detroit....this is the same plan Obama has for the rest of America....

I fully know and understand why Detroit fell... Probably more then most seeing as I grew up right fucking next to the city. I know what the leaches of unions and racist crooked democrats wrought. All I said is that the state needs to see if they should and can help.

after the bankruptcy they can step in and help people all they want...

My point precisely.

 

[bripat9643]

so you believe it is the federal governments job to look out for Michigan citizens?

no.....but if we can send aid to children in Bangladesh we can certainly send aid to starving children in Detroit....

Democrat rule is similar to socialist/communist/fascist rule.....everybody winds up poor except for the few at the top....when that happens there will be no federal aid for anybody...

you are seeing it happen before your very eyes in Detroit....this is the same plan Obama has for the rest of America....

I fully know and understand why Detroit fell... Probably more then most seeing as I grew up right fucking next to the city. I know what the leaches of unions and racist crooked democrats wrought. All I said is that the state needs to see if they should and can help.

How can the state "help" without raising taxes on innocent people who had nothing to do with the debacle?