Should Detroit's municipal retirees lose their pensions?

[thanatos144]

Ive been rethinking this. Maybe they should lose their pensions. They are bureaucrats who are supposed to run the city in it's various operations. Clearly the city has been run into the ground. Should people get pensions for doing a bad job?

are not garbage men and police officers municipal workers? Kinda sucks they will get fucked but those doing the damage will walk free.....Should be a crime

The police in Detriot won't show up for an hour if you have someone in your house threatening you. Do they really deserve a pension if they can't keep the people safe?

Garbage is found throughout the city, do they deserve a pension if the town is full of garbage?

And yes, those who screwed up the budget should go to jail for theft.

Until you have worked in Detroit or lived there you have no idea.... Police dont go there because there are not that many of them. No that money went to some fat bitch counselor or their boss. Also lets look at the fact that any time deadly force is used the police are accused of racism and their life is made hell....It doesn't even matter that over 90% of the force in Detroit is black. Shit you should be happy they found some who would actually still work in that environment. Its one thing to risk your life for the job its another to risk it because you did your job correctly.

 

[Katzndogz]

The State Constitution prohibits impairment of municipal employment contracts. There's no stipulation that the state has to make up city shortfalls. The city is responsible for mishandling finances to the point where the employment obligations can't be met. There is no money. Detroit is bankrupt. The pensioners are secured creditors and will be treated as all secured creditors are treated.

 

[regent]

The state of Michigan took over Detroit's money problems in March of this year, it seems those problems now belong to the state. It can now be argued that Detroit could have solved the problems if left alone, but the state assumed the power and solutions to correct the problems, so that responsibility now belongs to the state.

 

[Edgetho]

The state of Michigan took over Detroit's money problems in March of this year, it seems those problems now belong to the state. It can now be argued that Detroit could have solved the problems if left alone, but the state assumed the power and solutions to correct the problems, so that responsibility now belongs to the state.

They look like this...

They're in the basement you live in somewhere. Keep looking

 

[thanatos144]

The state of Michigan took over Detroit's money problems in March of this year, it seems those problems now belong to the state. It can now be argued that Detroit could have solved the problems if left alone, but the state assumed the power and solutions to correct the problems, so that responsibility now belongs to the state.

That just plain stupid.

 

[Katzndogz]

Ive been rethinking this. Maybe they should lose their pensions. They are bureaucrats who are supposed to run the city in it's various operations. Clearly the city has been run into the ground. Should people get pensions for doing a bad job?

are not garbage men and police officers municipal workers? Kinda sucks they will get fucked but those doing the damage will walk free.....Should be a crime

The police in Detriot won't show up for an hour if you have someone in your house threatening you. Do they really deserve a pension if they can't keep the people safe?

Garbage is found throughout the city, do they deserve a pension if the town is full of garbage?

And yes, those who screwed up the budget should go to jail for theft.

The police not showing up for an hour isn't nearly as bad as the police committing armed robberies IN UNIFORM.

Detroit police officers arrested for alleged robberies in uniform, report says - Crimesider - CBS News

(CBS) DETROIT - Two Detroit police officers have been arrested in connection with armed robberies allegedly by men in police uniforms, according to CBS Detroit.



The station reports one victim was allegedly pistol-whipped and robbed at gunpoint at a gas station, while another victim reported being pulled over, then robbed, in both instances by men dressed as police officers.


A sergeant with 20 years of experience was arrested over the weekend in connection to one of the crimes, and more details were to be released at a news conference Monday afternoon, reports the Detroit Free Press.


Maybe these two should lose their pensions.

 

[thanatos144]

are not garbage men and police officers municipal workers? Kinda sucks they will get fucked but those doing the damage will walk free.....Should be a crime

The police in Detriot won't show up for an hour if you have someone in your house threatening you. Do they really deserve a pension if they can't keep the people safe?

Garbage is found throughout the city, do they deserve a pension if the town is full of garbage?

And yes, those who screwed up the budget should go to jail for theft.

The police not showing up for an hour isn't nearly as bad as the police committing armed robberies IN UNIFORM.

Detroit police officers arrested for alleged robberies in uniform, report says - Crimesider - CBS News

(CBS) DETROIT - Two Detroit police officers have been arrested in connection with armed robberies allegedly by men in police uniforms, according to CBS Detroit.



The station reports one victim was allegedly pistol-whipped and robbed at gunpoint at a gas station, while another victim reported being pulled over, then robbed, in both instances by men dressed as police officers.


A sergeant with 20 years of experience was arrested over the weekend in connection to one of the crimes, and more details were to be released at a news conference Monday afternoon, reports the Detroit Free Press.


Maybe these two should lose their pensions.

Do you expect me to defend criminals?????? I am not a progressive.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I would strongly suspect the state of Michigan is responsible.
The Constitution recognizes two governments in the US, federal and state, and cities are entities of the state. Were these obligations contracts, if so, the Court has long been adamant on contracts, they must be enforced as per the Constitution. But then again courts are somewhat flexible depending on their politics.

America has voided contracts before. In the 1930s, after roosevelt banned private ownership of gold, all the gold clauses in contracts were voided!!!

So you think we should all act like a socialist fascist pig?

Yeah...Right..
that's all. Return to your cubicle.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

The State Constitution prohibits impairment of municipal employment contracts. There's no stipulation that the state has to make up city shortfalls. The city is responsible for mishandling finances to the point where the employment obligations can't be met. There is no money. Detroit is bankrupt. The pensioners are secured creditors and will be treated as all secured creditors are treated.

Of course there's money. They're still handing out welfare checks aren't they. ? The state legislature could change that overnight. How can the state screw people out of money they are obligated to pay while they still give out charity to deadbeats.?

think

 

[thereisnospoon]

So what happened to other American cities, towns or counties that could not pay their debts?
I would also suspect that as manufacturing changes in America those communities that depend primarily on one type of industry have, and will continue to have, debt problems. For Detroit since the state took over Detroit's finances problems the state may have an even greater responsibility. But it will come down to the politics of the Courts.

There is no more money. Sacrifices will have to be made. The gravy train has made its final stop. It rolls no more.
Oh...The largest contributor to the downfall of Detroit was the city had all of its eggs in the automotive industry basket.
Successful and growing communities have diverse economies.
Detroit has but two industries. Automotive and public service. The former supported the latter. Not good.

You right sacrifices must be made. I guess they might have to make a actual budget....I guess fist we have to take away all the money paid to politicians right??? Oh I forgot we have to punish those without connections first..... Do you think it will be the recent union thugs that retired who will get hit first or the 80 year old garbage man ?...Priorities. It would be nice if those who deserved to get fucked get fucked hardest by a rhino horn. Yet we all know very few democrat thugs and crooks in power and have put Detroit in this predicament will get to much pain....They will just move on to other cities.

I will answer your first three points.
YES. YES and YES...
All of the morons that made the decisions which plowed Detroit city government into the ground should lose any hope of collecting another DIME of anything.
I say, find 'em and shove them into the river that separates Detroit from Windsor

 

[Edgetho]

There is no more money. Sacrifices will have to be made. The gravy train has made its final stop. It rolls no more.
Oh...The largest contributor to the downfall of Detroit was the city had all of its eggs in the automotive industry basket.
Successful and growing communities have diverse economies.
Detroit has but two industries. Automotive and public service. The former supported the latter. Not good.

You right sacrifices must be made. I guess they might have to make a actual budget....I guess fist we have to take away all the money paid to politicians right??? Oh I forgot we have to punish those without connections first..... Do you think it will be the recent union thugs that retired who will get hit first or the 80 year old garbage man ?...Priorities. It would be nice if those who deserved to get fucked get fucked hardest by a rhino horn. Yet we all know very few democrat thugs and crooks in power and have put Detroit in this predicament will get to much pain....They will just move on to other cities.

I will answer your first three points.
YES. YES and YES...
All of the morons that made the decisions which plowed Detroit city government into the ground should lose any hope of collecting another DIME of anything.
I say, find 'em and shove them into the river that separates Detroit from Windsor

That River is polluted enough, thank you

 

[thereisnospoon]

The State Constitution prohibits impairment of municipal employment contracts. There's no stipulation that the state has to make up city shortfalls. The city is responsible for mishandling finances to the point where the employment obligations can't be met. There is no money. Detroit is bankrupt. The pensioners are secured creditors and will be treated as all secured creditors are treated.

Of course there's money. They're still handing out welfare checks aren't they. ? The state legislature could change that overnight. How can the state screw people out of money they are obligated to pay while they still give out charity to deadbeats.?

think

"No more money" refers to the aspect of going to the taxpayers to fund Detroit's debts.

 

[regent]

I would strongly suspect the state of Michigan is responsible.
The Constitution recognizes two governments in the US, federal and state, and cities are entities of the state. Were these obligations contracts, if so, the Court has long been adamant on contracts, they must be enforced as per the Constitution. But then again courts are somewhat flexible depending on their politics.

America has voided contracts before. In the 1930s, after roosevelt banned private ownership of gold, all the gold clauses in contracts were voided!!!

Was the United States one of the signatory parties to to the gold contracts, or were the gold clauses in the contracts between two other parties, and by government action the contracts were null and void?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Will Your Congressman Retire Richer Than You? - Yahoo! Finance

The rich get richer and members of the power elite get richer still.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

America has voided contracts before. In the 1930s, after roosevelt banned private ownership of gold, all the gold clauses in contracts were voided!!!

Was the United States one of the signatory parties to to the gold contracts, or were the gold clauses in the contracts between two other parties, and by government action the contracts were null and void?

You don't know what a gold clause is. In the 1920s there was a lot of worry about inflation so companies that loaned out say $10,000 inserted a gold clause that said when the bond came due the lender could demand repayment in $10,000 dollars or a certain number of ounces of gold. It was between two companies and there was nothing illegal or unethical about it. Made a lot of sense. But when roosevelt banned the private ownership of gold he also nullified these clauses, contract be damned!!

 

[Katzndogz]

The State Constitution prohibits impairment of municipal employment contracts. There's no stipulation that the state has to make up city shortfalls. The city is responsible for mishandling finances to the point where the employment obligations can't be met. There is no money. Detroit is bankrupt. The pensioners are secured creditors and will be treated as all secured creditors are treated.

Of course there's money. They're still handing out welfare checks aren't they. ? The state legislature could change that overnight. How can the state screw people out of money they are obligated to pay while they still give out charity to deadbeats.?

think

Welfare is a federal program.

 

[regent]

America has voided contracts before. In the 1930s, after roosevelt banned private ownership of gold, all the gold clauses in contracts were voided!!!

Was the United States one of the signatory parties to to the gold contracts, or were the gold clauses in the contracts between two other parties, and by government action the contracts were null and void?

You don't know what a gold clause is. In the 1920s there was a lot of worry about inflation so companies that loaned out say $10,000 inserted a gold clause that said when the bond came due the lender could demand repayment in $10,000 dollars or a certain number of ounces of gold. It was between two companies and there was nothing illegal or unethical about it. Made a lot of sense. But when roosevelt banned the private ownership of gold he also nullified these clauses, contract be damned!!

Might want to check Hughes and my response again.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

The State Constitution prohibits impairment of municipal employment contracts. There's no stipulation that the state has to make up city shortfalls. The city is responsible for mishandling finances to the point where the employment obligations can't be met. There is no money. Detroit is bankrupt. The pensioners are secured creditors and will be treated as all secured creditors are treated.

Of course there's money. They're still handing out welfare checks aren't they. ? The state legislature could change that overnight. How can the state screw people out of money they are obligated to pay while they still give out charity to deadbeats.?

think

Welfare is a federal program.

Some of it is federal but much is not. And BTW, nowhere does the constitution give the feds the right to pass welfare laws so by the tenth amendment welfare should be 100% a state matter. States need to say that.

think

 

[jasonnfree]

There is no Detroit....There is just a bankrupt city. They are kids who found out that credit cards have limits. The state should act the adult for its citizens because the city isn't.

The best way to teach kids responsibility is to let them fail.'

Michigan has no obligations toward those pensions.

Neither have other states.

It seems you have personal interest in all of this. Sorry for you or your relatives, but Katzndogs stated everything perfectly well - why should these investors be bailed out and others - not?

They calculated wrong, they lost, they will have to pay.

All those retirees have SS left and should have thought about other methods as well.
If not - they will have food stamps and welfare in addition,if needed.

others can survive on that then those retirees sure can, too

why is it people keep referring to liberals as irresponsible "kids"......?

Democrats are part and parcel of the socialist/communist/fascist Left which is PURPOSELY driving our country to economic ruin....

this is not a 'parental problem'...

If it weren't for the socialist programs such as social security and medicare, some of you people would probably be saddled with taking care of your older family members. You maybe should be thanking whatever god you pray to for socialism.

 

[ScienceRocks]

1. you can't have 70-80% of your population being sub-par in schooling
2. you can't have violent gangs ruling the city if you want businesses

How do we fix this?