Should Detroit's municipal retirees lose their pensions?

[thereisnospoon]

There is no Detroit....There is just a bankrupt city. They are kids who found out that credit cards have limits. The state should act the adult for its citizens because the city isn't.

The best way to teach kids responsibility is to let them fail.'

Michigan has no obligations toward those pensions.

Neither have other states.

It seems you have personal interest in all of this. Sorry for you or your relatives, but Katzndogs stated everything perfectly well - why should these investors be bailed out and others - not?

They calculated wrong, they lost, they will have to pay.

All those retirees have SS left and should have thought about other methods as well.
If not - they will have food stamps and welfare in addition,if needed.

others can survive on that then those retirees sure can, too

I would strongly suspect the state of Michigan is responsible.
The Constitution recognizes two governments in the US, federal and state, and cities are entities of the state. Were these obligations contracts, if so, the Court has long been adamant on contracts, they must be enforced as per the Constitution. But then again courts are somewhat flexible depending on their politics.

What you suspect is immaterial. Unless Lansing was funding the pension, then the state has no responsibility.
I am wondering why those on the political left are lashing out at others while looking for someone else to blame besides the City of Detroit's politicians past and present.

 

[Katzndogz]

Unless the state was a guarantor of the pension contracts the state will not have to pay, nor should it.

Back when I was doing bankruptcy, I was mildly surprised at what people thought happened to the debt they were bankrupting out. Most of them thought that the creditors would be paid by the government so no one was really losing anything.

I see now that the idea is more widespread than I thought way back then.

 

[bripat9643]

The best way to teach kids responsibility is to let them fail.'

Michigan has no obligations toward those pensions.

Neither have other states.

It seems you have personal interest in all of this. Sorry for you or your relatives, but Katzndogs stated everything perfectly well - why should these investors be bailed out and others - not?

They calculated wrong, they lost, they will have to pay.

All those retirees have SS left and should have thought about other methods as well.
If not - they will have food stamps and welfare in addition,if needed.

others can survive on that then those retirees sure can, too

I would strongly suspect the state of Michigan is responsible.
The Constitution recognizes two governments in the US, federal and state, and cities are entities of the state. Were these obligations contracts, if so, the Court has long been adamant on contracts, they must be enforced as per the Constitution. But then again courts are somewhat flexible depending on their politics.

What you suspect is immaterial. Unless Lansing was funding the pension, then the state has no responsibility.
I am wondering why those on the political left are lashing out at others while looking for someone else to blame besides the City of Detroit's politicians past and present.

They are looking for an idiot to pay Detroit's bills.

 

[OnePercenter]

no!!!​

 

[thanatos144]

I would strongly suspect the state of Michigan is responsible.
The Constitution recognizes two governments in the US, federal and state, and cities are entities of the state. Were these obligations contracts, if so, the Court has long been adamant on contracts, they must be enforced as per the Constitution. But then again courts are somewhat flexible depending on their politics.

What you suspect is immaterial. Unless Lansing was funding the pension, then the state has no responsibility.
I am wondering why those on the political left are lashing out at others while looking for someone else to blame besides the City of Detroit's politicians past and present.

They are looking for an idiot to pay Detroit's bills.

If we were looking for a idiot we wouldn't have to look much farther than you

 

[thanatos144]

First we need prioritize what gets paid first

 

[ShootSpeeders]

I would strongly suspect the state of Michigan is responsible.
The Constitution recognizes two governments in the US, federal and state, and cities are entities of the state. Were these obligations contracts, if so, the Court has long been adamant on contracts, they must be enforced as per the Constitution. But then again courts are somewhat flexible depending on their politics.

America has voided contracts before. In the 1930s, after roosevelt banned private ownership of gold, all the gold clauses in contracts were voided!!!

 

[JoeBlam]

Do you know if their teachers have a separate retirement plan? Do they work for the city or the state/ If they don't have a separate plan, then will teachers who work for the metro schools get the shaft as well? I guess so.

The teachers' pension is a state pension and has a provision that says it will be cut by either a quarter or a third if the retired teacher leaves the state of Michigan. That's probably SOP for all state pensions there and a good idea.

 

[regent]

The best way to teach kids responsibility is to let them fail.'

Michigan has no obligations toward those pensions.

Neither have other states.

It seems you have personal interest in all of this. Sorry for you or your relatives, but Katzndogs stated everything perfectly well - why should these investors be bailed out and others - not?

They calculated wrong, they lost, they will have to pay.

All those retirees have SS left and should have thought about other methods as well.
If not - they will have food stamps and welfare in addition,if needed.

others can survive on that then those retirees sure can, too

I would strongly suspect the state of Michigan is responsible.
The Constitution recognizes two governments in the US, federal and state, and cities are entities of the state. Were these obligations contracts, if so, the Court has long been adamant on contracts, they must be enforced as per the Constitution. But then again courts are somewhat flexible depending on their politics.

What you suspect is immaterial. Unless Lansing was funding the pension, then the state has no responsibility.
I am wondering why those on the political left are lashing out at others while looking for someone else to blame besides the City of Detroit's politicians past and present.

So what happened to other American cities, towns or counties that could not pay their debts?
I would also suspect that as manufacturing changes in America those communities that depend primarily on one type of industry have, and will continue to have, debt problems. For Detroit since the state took over Detroit's finances problems the state may have an even greater responsibility. But it will come down to the politics of the Courts.

 

[bripat9643]

What you suspect is immaterial. Unless Lansing was funding the pension, then the state has no responsibility.
I am wondering why those on the political left are lashing out at others while looking for someone else to blame besides the City of Detroit's politicians past and present.

They are looking for an idiot to pay Detroit's bills.

If we were looking for a idiot we wouldn't have to look much farther than you

You can tell an idiot by his use of grammar, like saying "a idiot." Of course you would have to look much farther than e because I'm not going to pay a dime of Detroit's bills.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I would strongly suspect the state of Michigan is responsible.
The Constitution recognizes two governments in the US, federal and state, and cities are entities of the state. Were these obligations contracts, if so, the Court has long been adamant on contracts, they must be enforced as per the Constitution. But then again courts are somewhat flexible depending on their politics.

What you suspect is immaterial. Unless Lansing was funding the pension, then the state has no responsibility.
I am wondering why those on the political left are lashing out at others while looking for someone else to blame besides the City of Detroit's politicians past and present.

So what happened to other American cities, towns or counties that could not pay their debts?
I would also suspect that as manufacturing changes in America those communities that depend primarily on one type of industry have, and will continue to have, debt problems. For Detroit since the state took over Detroit's finances problems the state may have an even greater responsibility. But it will come down to the politics of the Courts.

There is no more money. Sacrifices will have to be made. The gravy train has made its final stop. It rolls no more.
Oh...The largest contributor to the downfall of Detroit was the city had all of its eggs in the automotive industry basket.
Successful and growing communities have diverse economies.
Detroit has but two industries. Automotive and public service. The former supported the latter. Not good.

 

[thanatos144]

I would strongly suspect the state of Michigan is responsible.
The Constitution recognizes two governments in the US, federal and state, and cities are entities of the state. Were these obligations contracts, if so, the Court has long been adamant on contracts, they must be enforced as per the Constitution. But then again courts are somewhat flexible depending on their politics.

America has voided contracts before. In the 1930s, after roosevelt banned private ownership of gold, all the gold clauses in contracts were voided!!!

So you think we should all act like a socialist fascist pig?

 

[thanatos144]

They are looking for an idiot to pay Detroit's bills.

If we were looking for a idiot we wouldn't have to look much farther than you

You can tell an idiot by his use of grammar, like saying "a idiot." Of course you would have to look much farther than e because I'm not going to pay a dime of Detroit's bills.

Grammar???? You are trying to school me on that???? Thats the pot calling the kettle black. Go home boy.

 

[Avatar4321]

Ive been rethinking this. Maybe they should lose their pensions. They are bureaucrats who are supposed to run the city in it's various operations. Clearly the city has been run into the ground. Should people get pensions for doing a bad job?

 

[thanatos144]

What you suspect is immaterial. Unless Lansing was funding the pension, then the state has no responsibility.
I am wondering why those on the political left are lashing out at others while looking for someone else to blame besides the City of Detroit's politicians past and present.

So what happened to other American cities, towns or counties that could not pay their debts?
I would also suspect that as manufacturing changes in America those communities that depend primarily on one type of industry have, and will continue to have, debt problems. For Detroit since the state took over Detroit's finances problems the state may have an even greater responsibility. But it will come down to the politics of the Courts.

There is no more money. Sacrifices will have to be made. The gravy train has made its final stop. It rolls no more.
Oh...The largest contributor to the downfall of Detroit was the city had all of its eggs in the automotive industry basket.
Successful and growing communities have diverse economies.
Detroit has but two industries. Automotive and public service. The former supported the latter. Not good.

You right sacrifices must be made. I guess they might have to make a actual budget....I guess fist we have to take away all the money paid to politicians right??? Oh I forgot we have to punish those without connections first..... Do you think it will be the recent union thugs that retired who will get hit first or the 80 year old garbage man ?...Priorities. It would be nice if those who deserved to get fucked get fucked hardest by a rhino horn. Yet we all know very few democrat thugs and crooks in power and have put Detroit in this predicament will get to much pain....They will just move on to other cities.

 

[thanatos144]

Ive been rethinking this. Maybe they should lose their pensions. They are bureaucrats who are supposed to run the city in it's various operations. Clearly the city has been run into the ground. Should people get pensions for doing a bad job?

are not garbage men and police officers municipal workers? Kinda sucks they will get fucked but those doing the damage will walk free.....Should be a crime

 

[Avatar4321]

Ive been rethinking this. Maybe they should lose their pensions. They are bureaucrats who are supposed to run the city in it's various operations. Clearly the city has been run into the ground. Should people get pensions for doing a bad job?

are not garbage men and police officers municipal workers? Kinda sucks they will get fucked but those doing the damage will walk free.....Should be a crime

The police in Detriot won't show up for an hour if you have someone in your house threatening you. Do they really deserve a pension if they can't keep the people safe?

Garbage is found throughout the city, do they deserve a pension if the town is full of garbage?

And yes, those who screwed up the budget should go to jail for theft.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

America has voided contracts before. In the 1930s, after roosevelt banned private ownership of gold, all the gold clauses in contracts were voided!!!

So you think we should all act like a socialist fascist pig?

Absolutely not. I'm making the point that everyone says contracts are sacred, but the govt voids them whenever it wishes.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

The police in Detriot won't show up for an hour if you have someone in your house threatening you. Do they really deserve a pension if they can't keep the people safe?

Garbage is found throughout the city, do they deserve a pension if the town is full of garbage?

.

That's the point i made in the OP. All these "workers" are affirmative action blacks who never did a day's work in their life.

 

[georgiapeach]

You can bitch and moan all you like but you know damn well that Detroit will be bailed out one way or another.

I bet it doesn't. Furthermore, with all of the many labor laws that have been passed, protecting workers, Unions should be obsolete, or at least not so over-rated.