Should doctors operate on intersex babies?

[Iceweasel]

Somebody needs to do a little research. Transgendered and hermophodites aren't the same thing.

Who said that it was? Actualy, hermaphrodites do not exist. They are mythical creatures that have all of the attributes of both male and female. That is not the case with intersexual people. Now, intersexual is also different than transgender, and transsexual but some transgender people are also intersexual which underlies their gender dysphoria .

Thanks for the effort but you're wrong.....

Hermaphrodite definition of hermaphrodite by Medical dictionary
hermaphrodite
an individual whose body contains tissue of both male and female gonads. The ovaries and testes may be present as separate organs, or ovarian and testicular tissue may be combined in the same organ (ovotestis). The ovarian and testicular tissues may be present at the same time (synchronous hermaphrodite) or sequentially (when the sex organs appear one after the other; protandrous when the testes come first, protogynous when the ovaries appear first) See also hermaphroditism.

As far as the OP is concerned, it should up to the parents if there is any combination of the two genders and if a gender is define, it's up to the individual only when they become an adult if they want to have themselves mutilated and can find a doctor willing to do it. I believe it was Johns Hopkins that stopped doing it because they realize the poor souls have mental issues.

You don't understand the difference between intersexual and trans gender/transsexual....do you?

You don't know how to read do you? Try it slower.

This thread is about intersexuality and when and if to perform surgery to assign male or female physical attributes more clearly. The primary issue with Johns Hopkins was sexual reassignment procedures for transgender / transsexual people which is primarily psychological . You conflated the two issues in one paragraph and you are going to tell me that I can't read. You can't think. Try it again, FASTER.

There was also another similar issue at Johns Hopkins concerning another condition that was neither intersexual or transgender for which they stopped doing surgury:

Cloacal exstrophy is a severe birth defect that occurs in approximately 1 in 400,000 live births. One of the most pronounced characteristics is severe phallic inadequacy, or the complete absence of a penis in genetic males. Historically, doctors have treated cloacal exstrophy by surgically altering, or "reassigning" these babies as female. Johns Hopkins Researcher Challenges Conventional Wisdom on Gender Reassignment Surgery

Hey numbnuts, you brought up transgenders, not me. LOL. You fucking retard!

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Who said that it was? Actualy, hermaphrodites do not exist. They are mythical creatures that have all of the attributes of both male and female. That is not the case with intersexual people. Now, intersexual is also different than transgender, and transsexual but some transgender people are also intersexual which underlies their gender dysphoria .

Thanks for the effort but you're wrong.....

Hermaphrodite definition of hermaphrodite by Medical dictionary
hermaphrodite
an individual whose body contains tissue of both male and female gonads. The ovaries and testes may be present as separate organs, or ovarian and testicular tissue may be combined in the same organ (ovotestis). The ovarian and testicular tissues may be present at the same time (synchronous hermaphrodite) or sequentially (when the sex organs appear one after the other; protandrous when the testes come first, protogynous when the ovaries appear first) See also hermaphroditism.

As far as the OP is concerned, it should up to the parents if there is any combination of the two genders and if a gender is define, it's up to the individual only when they become an adult if they want to have themselves mutilated and can find a doctor willing to do it. I believe it was Johns Hopkins that stopped doing it because they realize the poor souls have mental issues.

You don't understand the difference between intersexual and trans gender/transsexual....do you?

You don't know how to read do you? Try it slower.

This thread is about intersexuality and when and if to perform surgery to assign male or female physical attributes more clearly. The primary issue with Johns Hopkins was sexual reassignment procedures for transgender / transsexual people which is primarily psychological . You conflated the two issues in one paragraph and you are going to tell me that I can't read. You can't think. Try it again, FASTER.

There was also another similar issue at Johns Hopkins concerning another condition that was neither intersexual or transgender for which they stopped doing surgury:

Cloacal exstrophy is a severe birth defect that occurs in approximately 1 in 400,000 live births. One of the most pronounced characteristics is severe phallic inadequacy, or the complete absence of a penis in genetic males. Historically, doctors have treated cloacal exstrophy by surgically altering, or "reassigning" these babies as female. Johns Hopkins Researcher Challenges Conventional Wisdom on Gender Reassignment Surgery

Hey numbnuts, you brought up transgenders, not me. LOL. You fucking retard!

You appear to be coming unhinged . You brought up Johns Hopkins. Then you call me names to try to cover up your ignorance . Good day sir.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

M.C. was born with ambiguous genitalia, a rare condition that doctors addressed with surgery. Now, in a landmark lawsuit, M.C.’s parents are challenging the medical mainstream: Why does a surgeon decide what sex a child should be?

Born In Between When A Newborn s Sex Is In Question Why Do Doctors Get To Decide

My opinion is that a surgeon has a right to decide a sex for a child. Cause the doctor is a scientist who rests on the biological facts about the physical qualities and the genes of a child. So he can choose better.
I'm sure that the humanity will realize soon that the transgenders must be healed, not accepted. Cause a human must have that gender which his biology tells him to have. It's not the society, it's mother nature to decide.

What do you think about that?

You're talking about taking that choice away from the parents.

No, and damn you for proposing it.

The parents should not be making that choice either!

Since when did you decide to be anti-choice?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

M.C. was born with ambiguous genitalia, a rare condition that doctors addressed with surgery. Now, in a landmark lawsuit, M.C.’s parents are challenging the medical mainstream: Why does a surgeon decide what sex a child should be?

Born In Between When A Newborn s Sex Is In Question Why Do Doctors Get To Decide

My opinion is that a surgeon has a right to decide a sex for a child. Cause the doctor is a scientist who rests on the biological facts about the physical qualities and the genes of a child. So he can choose better.
I'm sure that the humanity will realize soon that the transgenders must be healed, not accepted. Cause a human must have that gender which his biology tells him to have. It's not the society, it's mother nature to decide.

What do you think about that?

The child knows their gender. No doctor should have the right to decide. Allow the child to grow up and decide. What happens when the doctor decides the child is a male but the child grows up expressing a desire to be female?

There's some medical facts you might not be aware of. In cases of genetic mosaicism, which we're talking about here, the operation has to be done as a child or the mixture of genetalia will cause profound medical issues in the future. A choice has to be made, the operation performed immediately, and hormone therapy appropriate to that choice must be administered growing up. The doctors know what they're doing, but the parents need to make that choice.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

M.C. was born with ambiguous genitalia, a rare condition that doctors addressed with surgery. Now, in a landmark lawsuit, M.C.’s parents are challenging the medical mainstream: Why does a surgeon decide what sex a child should be?

Born In Between When A Newborn s Sex Is In Question Why Do Doctors Get To Decide

My opinion is that a surgeon has a right to decide a sex for a child. Cause the doctor is a scientist who rests on the biological facts about the physical qualities and the genes of a child. So he can choose better.
I'm sure that the humanity will realize soon that the transgenders must be healed, not accepted. Cause a human must have that gender which his biology tells him to have. It's not the society, it's mother nature to decide.

What do you think about that?

First of all, how can you take the position that the surgeon should decide in light of the information in the article that you yourself posted? Did you read it? The current trend in the medical and mental health field is to NOT do surgery until puberty when the person can make an informed decision.

Surgeons are scientists but they are not infallible and we have much too still learn about gender identity. Secondly, a growing number of interesexuals are choosing NOT to have any surgery or other treatments and are content to live with not being clearly male or female. They have that right and anybody who has a problem with it is going to just have to get over it like they have to get over the gay rights issue

Secondly, your reference to transgender-saying that it must be healed and not accepted- make little sense. Acceptance is the healing, the healing for gender dysphoria, , whatever the cause being biological ( intersexuality) or psychological ( the more usual understanding of transgender)

Lastly, your statement that “a human must have that gender which his biology tells him to have” is flawed on two levels. One, all of the biological factors that relate to gender identity are not always apparent in a pre-pubescent, and two it does not take into account the psychological aspects of gender identity.

I think that you need to give this all more thought.

Please see my last response because it applies to you too. You have no idea what you're talking about when you propose delaying surgery in cases of genetic mosaicism. Immediate action is required or the developing 2 gender genitals will cause problems.

 

[Iceweasel]

You appear to be coming unhinged . You brought up Johns Hopkins. Then you call me names to try to cover up your ignorance . Good day sir.

You brought transgenders in post 7, my first post was 11. You've probably been unhinged your whole life. You pee sitting down? What a pussy.

 

[Katzndogz]

Why not just give the infant a chromosome test?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

You appear to be coming unhinged . You brought up Johns Hopkins. Then you call me names to try to cover up your ignorance . Good day sir.

You brought transgenders in post 7, my first post was 11. You've probably been unhinged your whole life. You pee sitting down? What a pussy.

Oh brother! You have now spiraled downward to the level of grade school taunting, reason being that you have nothing else. I exposed the stupidity of your post and your either don't have the integrity to admit it or you are not bright enough to understand the stupidity of what you said . I am never more sure of myself than when someone like you is reduced to a blathering, name calling , WEASAL

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

M.C. was born with ambiguous genitalia, a rare condition that doctors addressed with surgery. Now, in a landmark lawsuit, M.C.’s parents are challenging the medical mainstream: Why does a surgeon decide what sex a child should be?

Born In Between When A Newborn s Sex Is In Question Why Do Doctors Get To Decide

My opinion is that a surgeon has a right to decide a sex for a child. Cause the doctor is a scientist who rests on the biological facts about the physical qualities and the genes of a child. So he can choose better.
I'm sure that the humanity will realize soon that the transgenders must be healed, not accepted. Cause a human must have that gender which his biology tells him to have. It's not the society, it's mother nature to decide.

What do you think about that?

The child knows their gender. No doctor should have the right to decide. Allow the child to grow up and decide. What happens when the doctor decides the child is a male but the child grows up expressing a desire to be female?

There's some medical facts you might not be aware of. In cases of genetic mosaicism, which we're talking about here, the operation has to be done as a child or the mixture of genetalia will cause profound medical issues in the future. A choice has to be made, the operation performed immediately, and hormone therapy appropriate to that choice must be administered growing up. The doctors know what they're doing, but the parents need to make that choice.

Would you care to provide a source for that, as well as some information on the relationship between genetic mosaicism and intersexuality. ?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

M.C. was born with ambiguous genitalia, a rare condition that doctors addressed with surgery. Now, in a landmark lawsuit, M.C.’s parents are challenging the medical mainstream: Why does a surgeon decide what sex a child should be?

Born In Between When A Newborn s Sex Is In Question Why Do Doctors Get To Decide

My opinion is that a surgeon has a right to decide a sex for a child. Cause the doctor is a scientist who rests on the biological facts about the physical qualities and the genes of a child. So he can choose better.
I'm sure that the humanity will realize soon that the transgenders must be healed, not accepted. Cause a human must have that gender which his biology tells him to have. It's not the society, it's mother nature to decide.

What do you think about that?

The child knows their gender. No doctor should have the right to decide. Allow the child to grow up and decide. What happens when the doctor decides the child is a male but the child grows up expressing a desire to be female?

There's some medical facts you might not be aware of. In cases of genetic mosaicism, which we're talking about here, the operation has to be done as a child or the mixture of genetalia will cause profound medical issues in the future. A choice has to be made, the operation performed immediately, and hormone therapy appropriate to that choice must be administered growing up. The doctors know what they're doing, but the parents need to make that choice.

Would you care to provide a source for that, as well as some information on the relationship between genetic mosaicism and intersexuality. ?

Infants who are born with ambiguous genitalia represent a neonatal medical emergency for physical, social and psychological reasons. Immediate referral to an experienced multidisciplinary team (MDT) is essential. Urgent medical assessment is needed; for example, 75% of infants with CAH have associated salt-wasting nephropathy which can cause hypotension, collapse and death. Gender assignment of infants with DSD will involve discussion with a team including geneticists, neonatologists, endocrinologists, surgeons, ethicists and counsellors.

Ambiguous Genitalia. Uncertain genetalia information. Patient Patient

You're welcome.

 

[strollingbones]

Gender assignment

• Parents should be advised to delay registering the birth (it can be legally difficult to alter later) and naming the baby, until the sex of rearing is decided.
• This should be done after completion of the diagnostic process, including full clinical, genetic and biochemical investigation.
• It should be done involving the parents in full discussion and explanation.
• The assignment should aim to offer the best opportunity for normal puberty and sex life with unambiguous, functionally normal external genitalia and occasionally reproductive capability.
  
  

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

M.C. was born with ambiguous genitalia, a rare condition that doctors addressed with surgery. Now, in a landmark lawsuit, M.C.’s parents are challenging the medical mainstream: Why does a surgeon decide what sex a child should be?

Born In Between When A Newborn s Sex Is In Question Why Do Doctors Get To Decide

My opinion is that a surgeon has a right to decide a sex for a child. Cause the doctor is a scientist who rests on the biological facts about the physical qualities and the genes of a child. So he can choose better.
I'm sure that the humanity will realize soon that the transgenders must be healed, not accepted. Cause a human must have that gender which his biology tells him to have. It's not the society, it's mother nature to decide.

What do you think about that?

The child knows their gender. No doctor should have the right to decide. Allow the child to grow up and decide. What happens when the doctor decides the child is a male but the child grows up expressing a desire to be female?

There's some medical facts you might not be aware of. In cases of genetic mosaicism, which we're talking about here, the operation has to be done as a child or the mixture of genetalia will cause profound medical issues in the future. A choice has to be made, the operation performed immediately, and hormone therapy appropriate to that choice must be administered growing up. The doctors know what they're doing, but the parents need to make that choice.

Would you care to provide a source for that, as well as some information on the relationship between genetic mosaicism and intersexuality. ?

Infants who are born with ambiguous genitalia represent a neonatal medical emergency for physical, social and psychological reasons. Immediate referral to an experienced multidisciplinary team (MDT) is essential. Urgent medical assessment is needed; for example, 75% of infants with CAH have associated salt-wasting nephropathy which can cause hypotension, collapse and death. Gender assignment of infants with DSD will involve discussion with a team including geneticists, neonatologists, endocrinologists, surgeons, ethicists and counsellors.

Ambiguous Genitalia. Uncertain genetalia information. Patient Patient

You're welcome.

Interesting how you select the passage that seems to indicate that all children with ambiguous genitalia should undergo sex assignment surgery ( Although even this is not actually saying all children) but leave out this from the same link.

Ambiguous genitalia may be a result of a disorder of sexual development (DSD), previously called intersex conditions.[1] The ability to diagnose these conditions has improved greatly in recent years, due to advances in molecular genetics. Prompt, accurate diagnosis and counselling about therapeutic options should be available to parents soon after the baby's birth. It used to be thought that early gender assignment was vital to help social and psychological development. Recent research has challenged this thinking, as gender identity development probably begins in utero, so reconstructive surgery may now be deferred until psychological and social implications can be considered. Evidence about long-term outcomes for people with DSD who undergo gender assignment and reconstructive surgery is still lacking.[2][3]This has particular implications in the situation where parents are demanding early reassignment surgery for a child with DSD.[4]

Why are you pushing for all infants to have surgery what that in contraindicated in most cases.?? What is your agenda?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Born In Between When A Newborn s Sex Is In Question Why Do Doctors Get To Decide

My opinion is that a surgeon has a right to decide a sex for a child. Cause the doctor is a scientist who rests on the biological facts about the physical qualities and the genes of a child. So he can choose better.
I'm sure that the humanity will realize soon that the transgenders must be healed, not accepted. Cause a human must have that gender which his biology tells him to have. It's not the society, it's mother nature to decide.

What do you think about that?

The child knows their gender. No doctor should have the right to decide. Allow the child to grow up and decide. What happens when the doctor decides the child is a male but the child grows up expressing a desire to be female?

There's some medical facts you might not be aware of. In cases of genetic mosaicism, which we're talking about here, the operation has to be done as a child or the mixture of genetalia will cause profound medical issues in the future. A choice has to be made, the operation performed immediately, and hormone therapy appropriate to that choice must be administered growing up. The doctors know what they're doing, but the parents need to make that choice.

Would you care to provide a source for that, as well as some information on the relationship between genetic mosaicism and intersexuality. ?

Infants who are born with ambiguous genitalia represent a neonatal medical emergency for physical, social and psychological reasons. Immediate referral to an experienced multidisciplinary team (MDT) is essential. Urgent medical assessment is needed; for example, 75% of infants with CAH have associated salt-wasting nephropathy which can cause hypotension, collapse and death. Gender assignment of infants with DSD will involve discussion with a team including geneticists, neonatologists, endocrinologists, surgeons, ethicists and counsellors.

Ambiguous Genitalia. Uncertain genetalia information. Patient Patient

You're welcome.

Interesting how you select the passage that seems to indicate that all children with ambiguous genitalia should undergo sex assignment surgery ( Although even this is not actually saying all children) but leave out this from the same link.

Ambiguous genitalia may be a result of a disorder of sexual development (DSD), previously called intersex conditions.[1] The ability to diagnose these conditions has improved greatly in recent years, due to advances in molecular genetics. Prompt, accurate diagnosis and counselling about therapeutic options should be available to parents soon after the baby's birth. It used to be thought that early gender assignment was vital to help social and psychological development. Recent research has challenged this thinking, as gender identity development probably begins in utero, so reconstructive surgery may now be deferred until psychological and social implications can be considered. Evidence about long-term outcomes for people with DSD who undergo gender assignment and reconstructive surgery is still lacking.[2][3]This has particular implications in the situation where parents are demanding early reassignment surgery for a child with DSD.[4]

Why are you pushing for all infants to have surgery what that in contraindicated in most cases.?? What is your agenda?

My agenda is to oppose your agenda of giving the care and duty of medical decision making to the all mighty government.

A penis and vagina cannot occupy the same space, nor a uterus and gonad tissue. Use your damn brain for once.

 

[strollingbones]

use your fucking brain we are saying wait and let the child decide....damn

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The child knows their gender. No doctor should have the right to decide. Allow the child to grow up and decide. What happens when the doctor decides the child is a male but the child grows up expressing a desire to be female?

There's some medical facts you might not be aware of. In cases of genetic mosaicism, which we're talking about here, the operation has to be done as a child or the mixture of genetalia will cause profound medical issues in the future. A choice has to be made, the operation performed immediately, and hormone therapy appropriate to that choice must be administered growing up. The doctors know what they're doing, but the parents need to make that choice.

Would you care to provide a source for that, as well as some information on the relationship between genetic mosaicism and intersexuality. ?

Infants who are born with ambiguous genitalia represent a neonatal medical emergency for physical, social and psychological reasons. Immediate referral to an experienced multidisciplinary team (MDT) is essential. Urgent medical assessment is needed; for example, 75% of infants with CAH have associated salt-wasting nephropathy which can cause hypotension, collapse and death. Gender assignment of infants with DSD will involve discussion with a team including geneticists, neonatologists, endocrinologists, surgeons, ethicists and counsellors.

Ambiguous Genitalia. Uncertain genetalia information. Patient Patient

You're welcome.

Interesting how you select the passage that seems to indicate that all children with ambiguous genitalia should undergo sex assignment surgery ( Although even this is not actually saying all children) but leave out this from the same link.

Ambiguous genitalia may be a result of a disorder of sexual development (DSD), previously called intersex conditions.[1] The ability to diagnose these conditions has improved greatly in recent years, due to advances in molecular genetics. Prompt, accurate diagnosis and counselling about therapeutic options should be available to parents soon after the baby's birth. It used to be thought that early gender assignment was vital to help social and psychological development. Recent research has challenged this thinking, as gender identity development probably begins in utero, so reconstructive surgery may now be deferred until psychological and social implications can be considered. Evidence about long-term outcomes for people with DSD who undergo gender assignment and reconstructive surgery is still lacking.[2][3]This has particular implications in the situation where parents are demanding early reassignment surgery for a child with DSD.[4]

Why are you pushing for all infants to have surgery what that in contraindicated in most cases.?? What is your agenda?

My agenda is to oppose your agenda of giving the care and duty of medical decision making to the all mighty government.

A penis and vagina cannot occupy the same space, nor a uterus and gonad tissue. Use your damn brain for once.

YOU get more bizarre with each post. WHEN the hell did I ever suggest that the decision for sexual reassignment surgery be made by the government. ? You either knowingly made that up, or the voices in your head told you that. My position has consistently been 1. that the decision is between the family and the medical and mental health professionals and 2. Consistent with the best and most current medical and mental health expertise, surgery should, when possible be delayed until puberty when the child can make an informed decision. YOU have ignored all of that.

Rather, YOU want to rush into surgery, and why? Because you are not comfortable with the idea of a child not being clearly a boy or a girl in terms of outward appearance. Tough shit! You do not know better than the professionals. Furthermore, even if the surgery is done early on, that child STILL will not be clearly a boy or a girl because there is still the pesky issue of chromosomes and hormones, and possibly internal organs. You seem to be unable to understand any of this.

Than on top of that, you cherry pick medical information to try to show that early surgery is warranted in all case when nothing can be further from the truth. That makes you a shameless liar. We are done here. I have presented all of the evidence. If you can't accept or comprehend that it's not my problem. Thank fucking god that you don't have anything to say about what happens to these kids.

 

[koshergrl]

All this angst and if people would just accept the situation instead of applying surgery to everything, the world would be less insane.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

All this angst and if people would just accept the situation instead of applying surgery to everything, the world would be less insane.

In the case of genetic mosaicism with ambiguous genitalia, surgery is necessary. As with many birth defects.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

All this angst and if people would just accept the situation instead of applying surgery to everything, the world would be less insane.

In the case of genetic mosaicism with ambiguous genitalia, surgery is necessary. As with many birth defects.

You're still lying, They should have performed surgery on you when you were born to correct your defective brain

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

All this angst and if people would just accept the situation instead of applying surgery to everything, the world would be less insane.

In the case of genetic mosaicism with ambiguous genitalia, surgery is necessary. As with many birth defects.

You're still lying, They should have performed surgery on you when you were born to correct your defective brain

Don't you have a family to terrorize?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

All this angst and if people would just accept the situation instead of applying surgery to everything, the world would be less insane.

In the case of genetic mosaicism with ambiguous genitalia, surgery is necessary. As with many birth defects.

You're still lying, They should have performed surgery on you when you were born to correct your defective brain

Don't you have a family to terrorize?

I'm retired but you'll do.