Should fed/st government workers be paid median salary, with no benefits or vacation

Should Fed/State workers be paid median income (no benefits, vacation, etc)

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 25.0%
  • No

    Votes: 18 75.0%

  • Total voters
    24

The2ndAmendment

Gold Member
Feb 16, 2013
13,383
3,659
Federal and State Government workers, this means ALL of them, get paid the Median salary, no benefits, no vacation.

We're leaving local government workers out of the equation, like police and teachers, since that's a separate debate. Federal and State only.
 
I'm pretty sure that's what Republicans want for everyone so you don't need to single out soldiers and first responders and police and firemen and so on.
 
How exactly do these people get paid in the first place? Aren't we bankrupt?

That's easy to answer, we're printing hundreds of billions of dollars, causing massive inflation. It just so happens that government workers get a raise in respect to inflation, while the rest of us don't... it's like they are some sort of Nobility...(read below about Nobility)

https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-...l-liberalism-vs-progressivism/617199954976564

The theory of Divine Right asserts that God divides men by certain distinctions, Kings and Subjects, just as God divides the human species into male and female. The King is Sovereign, exercising supreme authority in all spheres of government, in all places subject to his jurisdiction; therefore, under this doctrine, the King is endowed by the Creator with unlimited rights, for all decisions made by the King are in fact the will of God.

The Subject is inferior to the King, and must accept any edict from the King without question. The Subject only has those rights which the King permits. Those rights may be revoked, denied or disparaged at any time. Some Subjects will enjoy being in a privileged class (so long as they remain in favor with the King), elevating their status in both government and society, for if God can create the Distinction of King and Subject among Men, then the King, who rules by the will of God, can create the Distinction of Nobility and Commoner among the Subjects.

Central to the doctrine of Divine Right, was that no Subject may question the King, for questioning any edict of the King was equivalent to challenging the will of God. The King being Sovereign over his Subjects, both Noble and Common, can only be judged by God, or another King, as other Kings rule by the will of God. Thus the Subjects have no power, on heaven or earth, to depose of their King.

However, during the middle of the 17th Century, a man named John Milton came to challenge the legitimacy of the Divine Right doctrine itself. Milton argued that the King's authority was derived from the people, and thus the King's power is only granted to him by Popular Sovereignty. Most important is that the people derive this sovereignty from God, and that these Sovereigns have both the right and the obligation to overthrow a tyrannical King. Here the roles of King and Subject are reversed, the Subjects are Sovereign over the King; the King only rules as a privilege extended to him by the people, a privilege that can be revoked, denied or disparaged at any time. Overall, the King is a Servant to the Public, hence the term public servant.

Now we will return to Sir Robert's Patriarcha, and cast aside the involvement of religion (God) in doctrine of Divine Right. When we have removed religion, we are left with the raw embodiment of Statism, which decrees that the State is Sovereign over the people, and that the people exist at the mercy and grace of the State, thus these people are Subjects, and their rulers are Kings.

People living under this doctrine, willingly or unwillingly, possess no rights, for the State is sovereign over all things, and thus the State has unlimited rights, infinite in its power. The State will usually delegate most of its powers to the Subjects, as it would be both inconvenient and impractical to administer the entirety of its infinite power in finite Time. Thus the State must prioritize which powers it exercises, because it only has limited Time and resources to execute its authority.

The first among these priorities will be to exercise the powers required to preserve its authority. Any time the Subjects of the State use their delegated privileges to challenge the State, the State will hastily disparage that privilege among those who are resisting them, and sometimes deny the privilege completely. In times of great peril to the Kings who administer the State, they will revoke the privilege entirely among all their Subjects. Once revoked, it will never be regained by the Subjects; the State does not forgive, it does not forget, it will never relinquish that privilege again.

In order to make sure that the people no longer continue to exercise that privilege, it will perpetually police its Subjects, for the failure to police the Subjects will result in a challenge to the authority of the State, which must not be questioned. Herein is the guiding principle behind the Police State. A government founded on the doctrine of Statism cannot guarantee its infinite sovereignty by doctrine alone, it must rely upon a compliant police or military, a Privileged class of Subjects, granted innumerable benefits and privileges that no ordinary Subject may possess (in short, a Nobility).

Recalling that the State must prioritize which powers to invoke, because the State is limited by Time, we must pay heed to the innovations of modern technology. Technology is a neutral entity; it can be used for both good and ill. The most important feature of technology, is that it allows a person or party (government) to use its Time more efficiently, allowing the person or party to accomplish more tasks in a given measure of time than previously before. As a consequence, as technology improves, the State is able to exercise additional powers, because it can use its Time more efficiently, and thus can Police its citizens even more than ever before, further reducing any perceived threats. Remember, that any government operating under the Doctrine of Statism only delegates those privileges to its Subjects that it cannot reasonable exercise in respect to its other priorities. However, once the Government has the ability to Police that right without diminishing other priorities, it will immediately revoke that privilege among its Subjects and reserve that right exclusively to itself.

So if we had to define Statism in a nutshell, it would be this: All rights are reserved to the State, and people within the State are Subjects to its Supreme Sovereignty, thus any rights that the Subjects exercise are but mere privileges, either granted by the State directly, or graced upon the Subjects by silent acquiescence. The State, being the Supreme Sovereign, may deny, disparage or revoke those privileges among any or all of its Subjects, for any or no cause. Therefore, the Subjects have no rights, but legal privileges only.

However, Statism is founded upon a series of contradictory axioms, and we will explore these contradictions in the essays to follow! One of the largest contradictions in Statist philosophy is that Statists require a compliant police or military force (notice that compliant was put in bold print earlier). If the Kings must rely upon the Consent of individual Subjects in order to enforce their Will, then the Kings are not truly sovereign, they must derive their power, as a privilege, from the rights of some other Sovereign entity (or entities) who Consented to delegate those privileges to the Kings. And if this Sovereign Entity decides that the Kings have become tyrannical, they may withdraw their Consent by ceasing to enforce its laws, in other words, make the edicts of the King void, without force, null.

This is only the beginning of the logical fallacies in the Statist philosophy. As such, Statism leads to Chaos, because it is founded on flawed axioms, expelling the system back into the void; whereas Anarchy is Chaos, because it is not founded on any axiom, being totally devoid of Order. Consequentially, Societies, being a different entity from Government altogether, will quickly find themselves in despair whilst existing within a Statist or Anarchistic form of Government, because the societies themselves will fall victim to Chaos. On the theme of Order and Chaos, we shall conclude Part 2 with two excerpts from Thomas Paine’s Common Sense:

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer!


Here Thomas Paine writes that both despotism and anarchy result in the same miseries!
 
Last edited:
I'm pretty sure that's what Republicans want for everyone so you don't need to single out soldiers and first responders and police and firemen and so on.

That is what Repugnantcans want, it's also what the Despotcrats want.

Why do you keep insisting I'm a Republican? Why do you also pull the Partisan Card? Why do you always pull the derailment card?

The goal of the two-party facade is to establish decentralized corporate communism.
 
Federal and State Government workers, this means ALL of them, get paid the Median salary, no benefits, no vacation.

We're leaving local government workers out of the equation, like police and teachers, since that's a separate debate. Federal and State only.

No, or include all govt. workers, fuck the pigs.
 
I'm pretty sure that's what Republicans want for everyone so you don't need to single out soldiers and first responders and police and firemen and so on.

That is what Repugnantcans want, it's also what the Despotcrats want.

Why do you keep insisting I'm a Republican? Why do you also pull the Partisan Card? Why do you always pull the derailment card?

The goal of the two-party facade is to establish decentralized corporate communism.

The parties aren't the same. Republicans are monolithic and Democrats are a coalition. Think about what that means.
And you are a Republicans. If it looks like one, talks like one, smells like one, then it is one.
 
All workers should have a right to a minimum two week paid vacation, annually, or pay in lieu of. I personally would fire anyone who didn't take a vacation. It increases productivity and worker health.
 
All workers should have a right to a minimum two week paid vacation, annually, or pay in lieu of. I personally would fire anyone who didn't take a vacation. It increases productivity and worker health.

Agreed, they should be privy to the same benefits as the private sector, along with a living wage.
 
How exactly do these people get paid in the first place? Aren't we bankrupt?

That's easy to answer, we're printing hundreds of billions of dollars, causing massive inflation. It just so happens that government workers get a raise in respect to inflation, while the rest of us don't... it's like they are some sort of Nobility...(read below about Nobility)

https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-...l-liberalism-vs-progressivism/617199954976564

The theory of Divine Right asserts that God divides men by certain distinctions, Kings and Subjects, just as God divides the human species into male and female. The King is Sovereign, exercising supreme authority in all spheres of government, in all places subject to his jurisdiction; therefore, under this doctrine, the King is endowed by the Creator with unlimited rights, for all decisions made by the King are in fact the will of God.

The Subject is inferior to the King, and must accept any edict from the King without question. The Subject only has those rights which the King permits. Those rights may be revoked, denied or disparaged at any time. Some Subjects will enjoy being in a privileged class (so long as they remain in favor with the King), elevating their status in both government and society, for if God can create the Distinction of King and Subject among Men, then the King, who rules by the will of God, can create the Distinction of Nobility and Commoner among the Subjects.

Central to the doctrine of Divine Right, was that no Subject may question the King, for questioning any edict of the King was equivalent to challenging the will of God. The King being Sovereign over his Subjects, both Noble and Common, can only be judged by God, or another King, as other Kings rule by the will of God. Thus the Subjects have no power, on heaven or earth, to depose of their King.

However, during the middle of the 17th Century, a man named John Milton came to challenge the legitimacy of the Divine Right doctrine itself. Milton argued that the King's authority was derived from the people, and thus the King's power is only granted to him by Popular Sovereignty. Most important is that the people derive this sovereignty from God, and that these Sovereigns have both the right and the obligation to overthrow a tyrannical King. Here the roles of King and Subject are reversed, the Subjects are Sovereign over the King; the King only rules as a privilege extended to him by the people, a privilege that can be revoked, denied or disparaged at any time. Overall, the King is a Servant to the Public, hence the term public servant.

Now we will return to Sir Robert's Patriarcha, and cast aside the involvement of religion (God) in doctrine of Divine Right. When we have removed religion, we are left with the raw embodiment of Statism, which decrees that the State is Sovereign over the people, and that the people exist at the mercy and grace of the State, thus these people are Subjects, and their rulers are Kings.

People living under this doctrine, willingly or unwillingly, possess no rights, for the State is sovereign over all things, and thus the State has unlimited rights, infinite in its power. The State will usually delegate most of its powers to the Subjects, as it would be both inconvenient and impractical to administer the entirety of its infinite power in finite Time. Thus the State must prioritize which powers it exercises, because it only has limited Time and resources to execute its authority.

The first among these priorities will be to exercise the powers required to preserve its authority. Any time the Subjects of the State use their delegated privileges to challenge the State, the State will hastily disparage that privilege among those who are resisting them, and sometimes deny the privilege completely. In times of great peril to the Kings who administer the State, they will revoke the privilege entirely among all their Subjects. Once revoked, it will never be regained by the Subjects; the State does not forgive, it does not forget, it will never relinquish that privilege again.

In order to make sure that the people no longer continue to exercise that privilege, it will perpetually police its Subjects, for the failure to police the Subjects will result in a challenge to the authority of the State, which must not be questioned. Herein is the guiding principle behind the Police State. A government founded on the doctrine of Statism cannot guarantee its infinite sovereignty by doctrine alone, it must rely upon a compliant police or military, a Privileged class of Subjects, granted innumerable benefits and privileges that no ordinary Subject may possess (in short, a Nobility).

Recalling that the State must prioritize which powers to invoke, because the State is limited by Time, we must pay heed to the innovations of modern technology. Technology is a neutral entity; it can be used for both good and ill. The most important feature of technology, is that it allows a person or party (government) to use its Time more efficiently, allowing the person or party to accomplish more tasks in a given measure of time than previously before. As a consequence, as technology improves, the State is able to exercise additional powers, because it can use its Time more efficiently, and thus can Police its citizens even more than ever before, further reducing any perceived threats. Remember, that any government operating under the Doctrine of Statism only delegates those privileges to its Subjects that it cannot reasonable exercise in respect to its other priorities. However, once the Government has the ability to Police that right without diminishing other priorities, it will immediately revoke that privilege among its Subjects and reserve that right exclusively to itself.

So if we had to define Statism in a nutshell, it would be this: All rights are reserved to the State, and people within the State are Subjects to its Supreme Sovereignty, thus any rights that the Subjects exercise are but mere privileges, either granted by the State directly, or graced upon the Subjects by silent acquiescence. The State, being the Supreme Sovereign, may deny, disparage or revoke those privileges among any or all of its Subjects, for any or no cause. Therefore, the Subjects have no rights, but legal privileges only.

However, Statism is founded upon a series of contradictory axioms, and we will explore these contradictions in the essays to follow! One of the largest contradictions in Statist philosophy is that Statists require a compliant police or military force (notice that compliant was put in bold print earlier). If the Kings must rely upon the Consent of individual Subjects in order to enforce their Will, then the Kings are not truly sovereign, they must derive their power, as a privilege, from the rights of some other Sovereign entity (or entities) who Consented to delegate those privileges to the Kings. And if this Sovereign Entity decides that the Kings have become tyrannical, they may withdraw their Consent by ceasing to enforce its laws, in other words, make the edicts of the King void, without force, null.

This is only the beginning of the logical fallacies in the Statist philosophy. As such, Statism leads to Chaos, because it is founded on flawed axioms, expelling the system back into the void; whereas Anarchy is Chaos, because it is not founded on any axiom, being totally devoid of Order. Consequentially, Societies, being a different entity from Government altogether, will quickly find themselves in despair whilst existing within a Statist or Anarchistic form of Government, because the societies themselves will fall victim to Chaos. On the theme of Order and Chaos, we shall conclude Part 2 with two excerpts from Thomas Paine’s Common Sense:

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer!


Here Thomas Paine writes that both despotism and anarchy result in the same miseries!

Read the news. Gov workers have not had a pay raise or COLA in over 3 years. Retirement folks do however.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/15/house-votes-to-extend-pay-freeze-for-federal-workers/

And since sequester hit even the merit promotions have been eliminated

-Geaux
 
Last edited:
Federal and State Government workers, this means ALL of them, get paid the Median salary, no benefits, no vacation.

We're leaving local government workers out of the equation, like police and teachers, since that's a separate debate. Federal and State only.

Why would you wish to deny any American worker benefits and a vacation?
 
Federal and State Government workers, this means ALL of them, get paid the Median salary, no benefits, no vacation.

We're leaving local government workers out of the equation, like police and teachers, since that's a separate debate. Federal and State only.

Fed employees should have the same pay and benies as Veterans.

The lack of income will drive most people away and only those that actually want to serve the country would stay.
 
I'm pretty sure that's what Republicans want for everyone so you don't need to single out soldiers and first responders and police and firemen and so on.

That is what Repugnantcans want, it's also what the Despotcrats want.

Why do you keep insisting I'm a Republican? Why do you also pull the Partisan Card? Why do you always pull the derailment card?

The goal of the two-party facade is to establish decentralized corporate communism.

2nd....one thing you have to learn about Dean....there are only 2 types of people.....those that agree with Dean....and those that don't......if you don't agree with him you are a Republican/Conservative/Blue Dog ....whatever.....Dean is a DIVIDER.....that's what he wants to see.....this Country Divided......just keep reading the shit he throws up....you will see...
 
How exactly do these people get paid in the first place? Aren't we bankrupt?

That's easy to answer, we're printing hundreds of billions of dollars, causing massive inflation. It just so happens that government workers get a raise in respect to inflation, while the rest of us don't... it's like they are some sort of Nobility...(read below about Nobility)

https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-...l-liberalism-vs-progressivism/617199954976564



Now we will return to Sir Robert's Patriarcha, and cast aside the involvement of religion (God) in doctrine of Divine Right. When we have removed religion, we are left with the raw embodiment of Statism, which decrees that the State is Sovereign over the people, and that the people exist at the mercy and grace of the State, thus these people are Subjects, and their rulers are Kings.

People living under this doctrine, willingly or unwillingly, possess no rights, for the State is sovereign over all things, and thus the State has unlimited rights, infinite in its power. The State will usually delegate most of its powers to the Subjects, as it would be both inconvenient and impractical to administer the entirety of its infinite power in finite Time. Thus the State must prioritize which powers it exercises, because it only has limited Time and resources to execute its authority.

The first among these priorities will be to exercise the powers required to preserve its authority. Any time the Subjects of the State use their delegated privileges to challenge the State, the State will hastily disparage that privilege among those who are resisting them, and sometimes deny the privilege completely. In times of great peril to the Kings who administer the State, they will revoke the privilege entirely among all their Subjects. Once revoked, it will never be regained by the Subjects; the State does not forgive, it does not forget, it will never relinquish that privilege again.

In order to make sure that the people no longer continue to exercise that privilege, it will perpetually police its Subjects, for the failure to police the Subjects will result in a challenge to the authority of the State, which must not be questioned. Herein is the guiding principle behind the Police State. A government founded on the doctrine of Statism cannot guarantee its infinite sovereignty by doctrine alone, it must rely upon a compliant police or military, a Privileged class of Subjects, granted innumerable benefits and privileges that no ordinary Subject may possess (in short, a Nobility).

Recalling that the State must prioritize which powers to invoke, because the State is limited by Time, we must pay heed to the innovations of modern technology. Technology is a neutral entity; it can be used for both good and ill. The most important feature of technology, is that it allows a person or party (government) to use its Time more efficiently, allowing the person or party to accomplish more tasks in a given measure of time than previously before. As a consequence, as technology improves, the State is able to exercise additional powers, because it can use its Time more efficiently, and thus can Police its citizens even more than ever before, further reducing any perceived threats. Remember, that any government operating under the Doctrine of Statism only delegates those privileges to its Subjects that it cannot reasonable exercise in respect to its other priorities. However, once the Government has the ability to Police that right without diminishing other priorities, it will immediately revoke that privilege among its Subjects and reserve that right exclusively to itself.

So if we had to define Statism in a nutshell, it would be this: All rights are reserved to the State, and people within the State are Subjects to its Supreme Sovereignty, thus any rights that the Subjects exercise are but mere privileges, either granted by the State directly, or graced upon the Subjects by silent acquiescence. The State, being the Supreme Sovereign, may deny, disparage or revoke those privileges among any or all of its Subjects, for any or no cause. Therefore, the Subjects have no rights, but legal privileges only.

However, Statism is founded upon a series of contradictory axioms, and we will explore these contradictions in the essays to follow! One of the largest contradictions in Statist philosophy is that Statists require a compliant police or military force (notice that compliant was put in bold print earlier). If the Kings must rely upon the Consent of individual Subjects in order to enforce their Will, then the Kings are not truly sovereign, they must derive their power, as a privilege, from the rights of some other Sovereign entity (or entities) who Consented to delegate those privileges to the Kings. And if this Sovereign Entity decides that the Kings have become tyrannical, they may withdraw their Consent by ceasing to enforce its laws, in other words, make the edicts of the King void, without force, null.

This is only the beginning of the logical fallacies in the Statist philosophy. As such, Statism leads to Chaos, because it is founded on flawed axioms, expelling the system back into the void; whereas Anarchy is Chaos, because it is not founded on any axiom, being totally devoid of Order. Consequentially, Societies, being a different entity from Government altogether, will quickly find themselves in despair whilst existing within a Statist or Anarchistic form of Government, because the societies themselves will fall victim to Chaos. On the theme of Order and Chaos, we shall conclude Part 2 with two excerpts from Thomas Paine’s Common Sense:

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer!


Here Thomas Paine writes that both despotism and anarchy result in the same miseries!

Read the news. Gov workers have not had a pay raise or COLA in over 3 years. Retirement folks do however.

House votes to extend pay freeze for federal workers | Fox News

And since sequester hit even the merit promotions have been eliminated

-Geaux

Government jobs should be bid by mail with maybe the three lowest bids with none more than 5% above the lowest bid from qualified applicants getting interviewed and from which pool the hire is made. Government worker unions are an abomination against reason and the nation. Vacations should be standardized and pension amount should be over a career and not to exceed the average pension in the district the pensioner earned in or lives in, whichever is lower.

Ronald Reagan was a fool in about every way I know about, and signing those pay parity bills that made government jobs a safe haven for fat assed losers fits right into the bobbleheaded moron's legacy.
 
Last edited:
Federal and State Government workers, this means ALL of them, get paid the Median salary, no benefits, no vacation.

We're leaving local government workers out of the equation, like police and teachers, since that's a separate debate. Federal and State only.

Fed employees should have the same pay and benies as Veterans.

The lack of income will drive most people away and only those that actually want to serve the country would stay.

That is an incredibly insightful post. One of the MOST insightful in my entire six months posting here. I absolutely do not agree with your pay scheme, but the lack of income causing just enough turnover part is dead on.

In fact that was the system until Ronald Reagan signed his big government pay parity bills while halfwit America slept soundly in the belief he was slashing costs instead of tripling the debt building a fake economy.

Until Reagan government was efficient "enough". Avocational government workers really did do well enough to support winning two world wars, support the growth of a strong middle class to keep the country growing, and as you suggest, government was self cleansing - the really ambitious ones got their experience then quit opening up new jobs for lower paid entry level government workers. It was fair to government workers and great for taxpayers.

Then came Reagan, MASSIVE corporate welfare, MASSIVE pay increases, and more complex tax law than anyone can shake a stick at. I am laughing out loud here at how easily that simple minded New Dealer tool of plutocrats fooled halfwit white trash - AND KEPT THEM FOOLED! The sons of bitches still can't admit he put the country on the path to Junebug and Obama.
 
Last edited:

Forum List

Back
Top