CDZ Should firearm training be free for the poor, or at least have a government program for free trainin

[Correll]

This article brings up an interesting idea....since owning a gun is a Right, and any Poll Tax or Literacy Test on a Right is unConstitutional.....if those opposed to gun ownership are worried about guns....should the government offer free training programs for gun owners.....not as a mandate, but as a free courtesy to help those too poor to get the training on their own?

The laughable arguments against constitutional carry - Hot Air

We’re not talking about a privilege which is granted to you as some sort of gift by the government and can just as easily be taken away. It’s a fundamental right which was built into the Constitution and it can only be removed in extreme situations where you have proven that you are too dangerous and/or unstable to be trusted with the right.

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All the states should be making sure that education and training for gun safety are available to all their citizens for a reasonable price (if not for free).


But we should also remember that liberals continually try to treat firearms as if they are some mythical totem which is somehow different from every other potentially dangerous tool crafted by the hand of man.


Frankly, I don’t think you should be using a chainsaw in your back yard until you’ve had at least some level of training on how to employ one safely and effectively. But the responsibility for that falls on you. And if you wind up injuring yourself or others or causing property damage when you drop a tree on your neighbor’s house, you’re the one stuck paying the price.

Certainly free safety training. Perhaps include some minor marksmanship training, to cut down on innocent bystanders.

Only open to people with clean criminal records. And that includes juvie files.

Agreed to all except the comment about "innocent bystanders" since lawful shootings of innocent bystanders are so rare as to be insignificant. Most are done by criminals and even those are rare.

Gun Facts | Gun Control Facts Concerning Accidental Gun Deaths
Myth: Innocent bystanders are often killed by guns
Fact: Less than 1% of all gun homicides involve innocent bystanders.

Murder Rates Don’t Tell Us Everything About Gun Violence

I worry about criminals/future criminals taking the class.

Do you also worry about "criminals/future criminals" taking driving, math or chemistry classes? What about medical classes so they can secretly patch each other up after major shootouts without having to go to a hospital? How about accounting classes so they can learn how to launder their money? How about firefighting classes so they can learn how to commit arson?

Criminal incompetence is a blessing, one I would regret reducing.

 

[Picaro]

Absolutely right. I was a member for decades until they changed their focus from gun safety to political activity to help gun manufacturers. That's when I quit sending in my money.

Funny. I was a member off and on for several years until the Democrats made a serious move to infringe on gun rights in 2013. Then I signed up until 2021.

The NRA became more political in defense against Democratic overreach. It's one thing to enact "common sense" gun laws, but it's another to use those supposedly "common sense" gun laws as a springboard to deprive honest, law abiding citizens of their right to self-defense. Obama's anti-bill presumed every gun-owner as guilty until proven innocent.

Remember this? That's why people are leery of any Democratic plan to "register guns".

Newspaper sparks outrage for publishing names, addresses of gun permit holders - CNN.com
An interactive map showing the names and addresses of all handgun permit holders in New York's Westchester and Rockland counties has infuriated many readers since it was posted Saturday on a newspaper's website.

The map, published by The Journal News, allows readers to zoom in on red dots that indicate which residents are licensed to own pistols or revolvers. It had prompted more than 1,700 comments as of Wednesday morning.

Blue dots indicate permit holders who "have purchased a firearm or updated the information on a permit in the past five years."

"So should we start wearing yellow Stars of David so the general public can be aware of who we are??" one commenter wrote.

"This is crazy!" wrote another.

So a nespaper did something dumb. You think non gun extremists had a meeting and assigned that paper to represent them? I remember lots of newspaper reports on death panels, Obama being a Muslim, and the census being a way to identify and assign people to FEMA prisons. Those were pretty dumb too.

According to islam obama is a muslim...his father was a muslim and according to islam that means he is a muslim.....

And the newspaper actually did post the names....it wasn't theory, it actually happened...

Yes, and his foreign policy acts as President confirmed he's a Muslim first and not an American.

 

[danielpalos]

Better aqueducts, better roads, and more well regulated militia, is always a cost effective solution for any State.​

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I agree completely. There is a constitutional right to own a gun if you so choose, so the government should pay so that constitutionally granted right can be enjoyed as safely as possible. Of course, that means that the right to an abortion, which is also a constitutional right if the woman so chooses, should also be paid for by the government so that constitutionally granted right can be practiced as safely as possible too. This is fun. What other constitutional rights do you want the government to pay for? Mark this day down. We are finally in agreement.

There is a constitutional right to vote, should there be FREE voter ID's? I am all for training of weapons, just as long as those who purchase weapons are law abiding citizens, not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot blacks in a poor church. Or a movie theater in Colorado. Or kids in an elementary school. If you are nuts, and the leftwing is nuts, ban them from learning how to shoot, don't give them a voter ID and send them all to Cuba. The US would be great again. Liberals are miserable wretches.

andaronjim

"... not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot ..."

So, you would suspend constitutional rights based on one's voting record? Or do you have another method in mind for rooting out those "flaming liberals"?

Do you agree that known mentally ill should have legal access to guns? How about known and suspected terrorists? (The right has made both legal, as you know). How about illegals? As it is, they too can buy guns legally.

Are you aware that a "flaming" RWNJ who posted here did a mass shooting?

 

[BULLDOG]

I'm not aware of any anti-rights people unless you are talking about homophobes, but that would be off subject.

Go look in a mirror. You're in favor of restricting, if not denying, Americans their rights of self-defense, rights of privacy and any other rights that get in the way of the Democratic agenda.

Yes I'm all in favor of denying Goober the right to accidentally kill me or my loved ones because he needs a gun to make him feel like a man, and he doesn't have the sense to know when to not use it. Are you comfortable watching your kid play on the slide at McDonald's when an idiot has an ar15 laying on the table pointed at the playground?

Goober? What about Tyrone or Jamal?

I don;t care who it is. Nobody needs to be armed 24/7 unless they are military in a war zone.

There are neighborhoods in democrats controlled voting districts that have more killings than Iraq does.......

There are more Trump supporters in the KKK than supporters of any other politician.

 

[2aguy]

I agree completely. There is a constitutional right to own a gun if you so choose, so the government should pay so that constitutionally granted right can be enjoyed as safely as possible. Of course, that means that the right to an abortion, which is also a constitutional right if the woman so chooses, should also be paid for by the government so that constitutionally granted right can be practiced as safely as possible too. This is fun. What other constitutional rights do you want the government to pay for? Mark this day down. We are finally in agreement.

There is a constitutional right to vote, should there be FREE voter ID's? I am all for training of weapons, just as long as those who purchase weapons are law abiding citizens, not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot blacks in a poor church. Or a movie theater in Colorado. Or kids in an elementary school. If you are nuts, and the leftwing is nuts, ban them from learning how to shoot, don't give them a voter ID and send them all to Cuba. The US would be great again. Liberals are miserable wretches.

andaronjim

"... not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot ..."

So, you would suspend constitutional rights based on one's voting record? Or do you have another method in mind for rooting out those "flaming liberals"?

Do you agree that known mentally ill should have legal access to guns? How about known and suspected terrorists? (The right has made both legal, as you know). How about illegals? As it is, they too can buy guns legally.

Are you aware that a "flaming" RWNJ who posted here did a mass shooting?

And you lie on both counts. The ACLU is not right wing by any stretch of the imagination...and they led the effort against taking 2nd Amendment Rights away from people before they had access to due process.....and dittos on the No Fly/No Buy list......you can't take away a fundamental Right from someone because a nameless bureaucrat puts them on a list...a list that you can't find out why you were put on it, you have almost no ability to contest, and it is almost impossible to get off of....

You don't tell the truth about either situation.....

Those who are in this country illegally have no Right to bear arms.....they need to get legal before they do...

 

[2aguy]

Go look in a mirror. You're in favor of restricting, if not denying, Americans their rights of self-defense, rights of privacy and any other rights that get in the way of the Democratic agenda.

Yes I'm all in favor of denying Goober the right to accidentally kill me or my loved ones because he needs a gun to make him feel like a man, and he doesn't have the sense to know when to not use it. Are you comfortable watching your kid play on the slide at McDonald's when an idiot has an ar15 laying on the table pointed at the playground?

Goober? What about Tyrone or Jamal?

I don;t care who it is. Nobody needs to be armed 24/7 unless they are military in a war zone.

There are neighborhoods in democrats controlled voting districts that have more killings than Iraq does.......

There are more Trump supporters in the KKK than supporters of any other politician.

The kkk is a democrat group....a

 

[BULLDOG]

I agree completely. There is a constitutional right to own a gun if you so choose, so the government should pay so that constitutionally granted right can be enjoyed as safely as possible. Of course, that means that the right to an abortion, which is also a constitutional right if the woman so chooses, should also be paid for by the government so that constitutionally granted right can be practiced as safely as possible too. This is fun. What other constitutional rights do you want the government to pay for? Mark this day down. We are finally in agreement.

There is a constitutional right to vote, should there be FREE voter ID's? I am all for training of weapons, just as long as those who purchase weapons are law abiding citizens, not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot blacks in a poor church. Or a movie theater in Colorado. Or kids in an elementary school. If you are nuts, and the leftwing is nuts, ban them from learning how to shoot, don't give them a voter ID and send them all to Cuba. The US would be great again. Liberals are miserable wretches.

andaronjim

"... not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot ..."

So, you would suspend constitutional rights based on one's voting record? Or do you have another method in mind for rooting out those "flaming liberals"?

Do you agree that known mentally ill should have legal access to guns? How about known and suspected terrorists? (The right has made both legal, as you know). How about illegals? As it is, they too can buy guns legally.

Are you aware that a "flaming" RWNJ who posted here did a mass shooting?

And you lie on both counts. The ACLU is not right wing by any stretch of the imagination...and they led the effort against taking 2nd Amendment Rights away from people before they had access to due process.....and dittos on the No Fly/No Buy list......you can't take away a fundamental Right from someone because a nameless bureaucrat puts them on a list...a list that you can't find out why you were put on it, you have almost no ability to contest, and it is almost impossible to get off of....

You don't tell the truth about either situation.....

Those who are in this country illegally have no Right to bear arms.....they need to get legal before they do...

So the ACLU is wrong on this one. Nobody is perfect. The difference is that I can still support the ACLU even knowing they are sometimes wrong. The good they do outweighs their mistakes. If it comes to the point where they their missteps outweigh the good they do, I won't support them. There is no reason to let crazies buy guns.

 

[2aguy]

I agree completely. There is a constitutional right to own a gun if you so choose, so the government should pay so that constitutionally granted right can be enjoyed as safely as possible. Of course, that means that the right to an abortion, which is also a constitutional right if the woman so chooses, should also be paid for by the government so that constitutionally granted right can be practiced as safely as possible too. This is fun. What other constitutional rights do you want the government to pay for? Mark this day down. We are finally in agreement.

There is a constitutional right to vote, should there be FREE voter ID's? I am all for training of weapons, just as long as those who purchase weapons are law abiding citizens, not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot blacks in a poor church. Or a movie theater in Colorado. Or kids in an elementary school. If you are nuts, and the leftwing is nuts, ban them from learning how to shoot, don't give them a voter ID and send them all to Cuba. The US would be great again. Liberals are miserable wretches.

andaronjim

"... not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot ..."

So, you would suspend constitutional rights based on one's voting record? Or do you have another method in mind for rooting out those "flaming liberals"?

Do you agree that known mentally ill should have legal access to guns? How about known and suspected terrorists? (The right has made both legal, as you know). How about illegals? As it is, they too can buy guns legally.

Are you aware that a "flaming" RWNJ who posted here did a mass shooting?

And you lie on both counts. The ACLU is not right wing by any stretch of the imagination...and they led the effort against taking 2nd Amendment Rights away from people before they had access to due process.....and dittos on the No Fly/No Buy list......you can't take away a fundamental Right from someone because a nameless bureaucrat puts them on a list...a list that you can't find out why you were put on it, you have almost no ability to contest, and it is almost impossible to get off of....

You don't tell the truth about either situation.....

Those who are in this country illegally have no Right to bear arms.....they need to get legal before they do...

So the ACLU is wrong on this one. Nobody is perfect. The difference is that I can still support the ACLU even knowing they are sometimes wrong. The good they do outweighs their mistakes. If it comes to the point where they their missteps outweigh the good they do, I won't support them. There is no reason to let crazies buy guns.

These people aren't crazy.....almost all of them are not even close to being dangerous.....and no one argues with disarming dangerous crazy people....we argue with the method used to disarm people without due process....where people like you, in government jobs....just get to take away Rights from people based on your feelings about guns....

 

[Skull Pilot]

I agree completely. There is a constitutional right to own a gun if you so choose, so the government should pay so that constitutionally granted right can be enjoyed as safely as possible. Of course, that means that the right to an abortion, which is also a constitutional right if the woman so chooses, should also be paid for by the government so that constitutionally granted right can be practiced as safely as possible too. This is fun. What other constitutional rights do you want the government to pay for? Mark this day down. We are finally in agreement.

There is a constitutional right to vote, should there be FREE voter ID's? I am all for training of weapons, just as long as those who purchase weapons are law abiding citizens, not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot blacks in a poor church. Or a movie theater in Colorado. Or kids in an elementary school. If you are nuts, and the leftwing is nuts, ban them from learning how to shoot, don't give them a voter ID and send them all to Cuba. The US would be great again. Liberals are miserable wretches.

andaronjim

"... not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot ..."

So, you would suspend constitutional rights based on one's voting record? Or do you have another method in mind for rooting out those "flaming liberals"?

Do you agree that known mentally ill should have legal access to guns? How about known and suspected terrorists? (The right has made both legal, as you know). How about illegals? As it is, they too can buy guns legally.

Are you aware that a "flaming" RWNJ who posted here did a mass shooting?

And you lie on both counts. The ACLU is not right wing by any stretch of the imagination...and they led the effort against taking 2nd Amendment Rights away from people before they had access to due process.....and dittos on the No Fly/No Buy list......you can't take away a fundamental Right from someone because a nameless bureaucrat puts them on a list...a list that you can't find out why you were put on it, you have almost no ability to contest, and it is almost impossible to get off of....

You don't tell the truth about either situation.....

Those who are in this country illegally have no Right to bear arms.....they need to get legal before they do...

So the ACLU is wrong on this one. Nobody is perfect. The difference is that I can still support the ACLU even knowing they are sometimes wrong. The good they do outweighs their mistakes. If it comes to the point where they their missteps outweigh the good they do, I won't support them. There is no reason to let crazies buy guns.

and that isn't the issue with this crappy legislation it was the fact that people who aren't actually mentally ill would have their right to own a firearm taken away at the whim of some fucking bureaucrat

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes I'm all in favor of denying Goober the right to accidentally kill me or my loved ones because he needs a gun to make him feel like a man, and he doesn't have the sense to know when to not use it. Are you comfortable watching your kid play on the slide at McDonald's when an idiot has an ar15 laying on the table pointed at the playground?

Goober? What about Tyrone or Jamal?

I don;t care who it is. Nobody needs to be armed 24/7 unless they are military in a war zone.

There are neighborhoods in democrats controlled voting districts that have more killings than Iraq does.......

There are more Trump supporters in the KKK than supporters of any other politician.

The kkk is a democrat group....and the total number of kkk members now is smaller than your IQ..........so it is very, very small...

No it's not. You can continue claiming the KKK is a democratic group all you want. Nobody believes you. Even your like minded RWNJs that make the same claim know it's not true.

 

[2aguy]

Goober? What about Tyrone or Jamal?

I don;t care who it is. Nobody needs to be armed 24/7 unless they are military in a war zone.

There are neighborhoods in democrats controlled voting districts that have more killings than Iraq does.......

There are more Trump supporters in the KKK than supporters of any other politician.

The kkk is a democrat group....and the total number of kkk members now is smaller than your IQ..........so it is very, very small...

No it's not. You can continue claiming the KKK is a democratic group all you want. Nobody believes you. Even your like minded RWNJs that make the same claim know it's not true.

I just realized that this is the CDZ...I edited some of my posts to take out my personal insults about you....you should do the same....

 

[BULLDOG]

I agree completely. There is a constitutional right to own a gun if you so choose, so the government should pay so that constitutionally granted right can be enjoyed as safely as possible. Of course, that means that the right to an abortion, which is also a constitutional right if the woman so chooses, should also be paid for by the government so that constitutionally granted right can be practiced as safely as possible too. This is fun. What other constitutional rights do you want the government to pay for? Mark this day down. We are finally in agreement.

There is a constitutional right to vote, should there be FREE voter ID's? I am all for training of weapons, just as long as those who purchase weapons are law abiding citizens, not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot blacks in a poor church. Or a movie theater in Colorado. Or kids in an elementary school. If you are nuts, and the leftwing is nuts, ban them from learning how to shoot, don't give them a voter ID and send them all to Cuba. The US would be great again. Liberals are miserable wretches.

andaronjim

"... not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot ..."

So, you would suspend constitutional rights based on one's voting record? Or do you have another method in mind for rooting out those "flaming liberals"?

Do you agree that known mentally ill should have legal access to guns? How about known and suspected terrorists? (The right has made both legal, as you know). How about illegals? As it is, they too can buy guns legally.

Are you aware that a "flaming" RWNJ who posted here did a mass shooting?

And you lie on both counts. The ACLU is not right wing by any stretch of the imagination...and they led the effort against taking 2nd Amendment Rights away from people before they had access to due process.....and dittos on the No Fly/No Buy list......you can't take away a fundamental Right from someone because a nameless bureaucrat puts them on a list...a list that you can't find out why you were put on it, you have almost no ability to contest, and it is almost impossible to get off of....

You don't tell the truth about either situation.....

Those who are in this country illegally have no Right to bear arms.....they need to get legal before they do...

So the ACLU is wrong on this one. Nobody is perfect. The difference is that I can still support the ACLU even knowing they are sometimes wrong. The good they do outweighs their mistakes. If it comes to the point where they their missteps outweigh the good they do, I won't support them. There is no reason to let crazies buy guns.

and that isn't the issue with this crappy legislation it was the fact that people who aren't actually mentally ill would have their right to own a firearm taken away at the whim of some fucking bureaucrat

Are you saying there is not a procedure to get their guns back if they aren't koo koo for coco puffs?

 

[2aguy]

There is a constitutional right to vote, should there be FREE voter ID's? I am all for training of weapons, just as long as those who purchase weapons are law abiding citizens, not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot blacks in a poor church. Or a movie theater in Colorado. Or kids in an elementary school. If you are nuts, and the leftwing is nuts, ban them from learning how to shoot, don't give them a voter ID and send them all to Cuba. The US would be great again. Liberals are miserable wretches.

andaronjim

"... not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot ..."

So, you would suspend constitutional rights based on one's voting record? Or do you have another method in mind for rooting out those "flaming liberals"?

Do you agree that known mentally ill should have legal access to guns? How about known and suspected terrorists? (The right has made both legal, as you know). How about illegals? As it is, they too can buy guns legally.

Are you aware that a "flaming" RWNJ who posted here did a mass shooting?

And you lie on both counts. The ACLU is not right wing by any stretch of the imagination...and they led the effort against taking 2nd Amendment Rights away from people before they had access to due process.....and dittos on the No Fly/No Buy list......you can't take away a fundamental Right from someone because a nameless bureaucrat puts them on a list...a list that you can't find out why you were put on it, you have almost no ability to contest, and it is almost impossible to get off of....

You don't tell the truth about either situation.....

Those who are in this country illegally have no Right to bear arms.....they need to get legal before they do...

So the ACLU is wrong on this one. Nobody is perfect. The difference is that I can still support the ACLU even knowing they are sometimes wrong. The good they do outweighs their mistakes. If it comes to the point where they their missteps outweigh the good they do, I won't support them. There is no reason to let crazies buy guns.

and that isn't the issue with this crappy legislation it was the fact that people who aren't actually mentally ill would have their right to own a firearm taken away at the whim of some fucking bureaucrat

Are you saying there is not a procedure to get their guns back if they aren't koo koo for coco puffs?

The procedure is long and weighed against them...and considering how easy it is to strip them of their Right and how hard it is to beg the faceless bureaucrats to get them back.......this is an attack on their Rights....nothing more.

 

[Skull Pilot]

There is a constitutional right to vote, should there be FREE voter ID's? I am all for training of weapons, just as long as those who purchase weapons are law abiding citizens, not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot blacks in a poor church. Or a movie theater in Colorado. Or kids in an elementary school. If you are nuts, and the leftwing is nuts, ban them from learning how to shoot, don't give them a voter ID and send them all to Cuba. The US would be great again. Liberals are miserable wretches.

andaronjim

"... not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot ..."

So, you would suspend constitutional rights based on one's voting record? Or do you have another method in mind for rooting out those "flaming liberals"?

Do you agree that known mentally ill should have legal access to guns? How about known and suspected terrorists? (The right has made both legal, as you know). How about illegals? As it is, they too can buy guns legally.

Are you aware that a "flaming" RWNJ who posted here did a mass shooting?

And you lie on both counts. The ACLU is not right wing by any stretch of the imagination...and they led the effort against taking 2nd Amendment Rights away from people before they had access to due process.....and dittos on the No Fly/No Buy list......you can't take away a fundamental Right from someone because a nameless bureaucrat puts them on a list...a list that you can't find out why you were put on it, you have almost no ability to contest, and it is almost impossible to get off of....

You don't tell the truth about either situation.....

Those who are in this country illegally have no Right to bear arms.....they need to get legal before they do...

So the ACLU is wrong on this one. Nobody is perfect. The difference is that I can still support the ACLU even knowing they are sometimes wrong. The good they do outweighs their mistakes. If it comes to the point where they their missteps outweigh the good they do, I won't support them. There is no reason to let crazies buy guns.

and that isn't the issue with this crappy legislation it was the fact that people who aren't actually mentally ill would have their right to own a firearm taken away at the whim of some fucking bureaucrat

Are you saying there is not a procedure to get their guns back if they aren't koo koo for coco puffs?

no I'm saying their right should not be taken away in the first place if they were not mentally ill

what if we had a law that took children away from parents because they couldn't balance a checkbook?

as long a there was a procedure to get the kids back it would be OK with you?

 

[BULLDOG]

I don;t care who it is. Nobody needs to be armed 24/7 unless they are military in a war zone.

There are neighborhoods in democrats controlled voting districts that have more killings than Iraq does.......

There are more Trump supporters in the KKK than supporters of any other politician.

The kkk is a democrat group....and the total number of kkk members now is smaller than your IQ..........so it is very, very small...

No it's not. You can continue claiming the KKK is a democratic group all you want. Nobody believes you. Even your like minded RWNJs that make the same claim know it's not true.

I just realized that this is the CDZ...I edited some of my posts to take out my personal insults about you....you should do the same....

Thank you please consider my previous RWNJ to be revised to RWUTDTLO "Right winger unable to determine the logical outcome"

 

[BULLDOG]

andaronjim

"... not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot ..."

So, you would suspend constitutional rights based on one's voting record? Or do you have another method in mind for rooting out those "flaming liberals"?

Do you agree that known mentally ill should have legal access to guns? How about known and suspected terrorists? (The right has made both legal, as you know). How about illegals? As it is, they too can buy guns legally.

Are you aware that a "flaming" RWNJ who posted here did a mass shooting?

And you lie on both counts. The ACLU is not right wing by any stretch of the imagination...and they led the effort against taking 2nd Amendment Rights away from people before they had access to due process.....and dittos on the No Fly/No Buy list......you can't take away a fundamental Right from someone because a nameless bureaucrat puts them on a list...a list that you can't find out why you were put on it, you have almost no ability to contest, and it is almost impossible to get off of....

You don't tell the truth about either situation.....

Those who are in this country illegally have no Right to bear arms.....they need to get legal before they do...

So the ACLU is wrong on this one. Nobody is perfect. The difference is that I can still support the ACLU even knowing they are sometimes wrong. The good they do outweighs their mistakes. If it comes to the point where they their missteps outweigh the good they do, I won't support them. There is no reason to let crazies buy guns.

and that isn't the issue with this crappy legislation it was the fact that people who aren't actually mentally ill would have their right to own a firearm taken away at the whim of some fucking bureaucrat

Are you saying there is not a procedure to get their guns back if they aren't koo koo for coco puffs?

no I'm saying their right should not be taken away in the first place if they were not mentally ill

what if we had a law that took children away from parents because they couldn't balance a checkbook?

as long a there was a procedure to get the kids back it would be OK with you?

If the parent was so incapacitated till they had to have someone else legally assigned to look after their day to day affairs, then yes. The children should be removed until there was reason shown that the parents were capable of caring for the children.

 

[Divine Wind]

This article brings up an interesting idea....since owning a gun is a Right, and any Poll Tax or Literacy Test on a Right is unConstitutional.....if those opposed to gun ownership are worried about guns....should the government offer free training programs for gun owners.....not as a mandate, but as a free courtesy to help those too poor to get the training on their own?

The laughable arguments against constitutional carry - Hot Air

We’re not talking about a privilege which is granted to you as some sort of gift by the government and can just as easily be taken away. It’s a fundamental right which was built into the Constitution and it can only be removed in extreme situations where you have proven that you are too dangerous and/or unstable to be trusted with the right.

--------

All the states should be making sure that education and training for gun safety are available to all their citizens for a reasonable price (if not for free).


But we should also remember that liberals continually try to treat firearms as if they are some mythical totem which is somehow different from every other potentially dangerous tool crafted by the hand of man.


Frankly, I don’t think you should be using a chainsaw in your back yard until you’ve had at least some level of training on how to employ one safely and effectively. But the responsibility for that falls on you. And if you wind up injuring yourself or others or causing property damage when you drop a tree on your neighbor’s house, you’re the one stuck paying the price.

Certainly free safety training. Perhaps include some minor marksmanship training, to cut down on innocent bystanders.

Only open to people with clean criminal records. And that includes juvie files.

Agreed to all except the comment about "innocent bystanders" since lawful shootings of innocent bystanders are so rare as to be insignificant. Most are done by criminals and even those are rare.

Gun Facts | Gun Control Facts Concerning Accidental Gun Deaths
Myth: Innocent bystanders are often killed by guns
Fact: Less than 1% of all gun homicides involve innocent bystanders.

Murder Rates Don’t Tell Us Everything About Gun Violence

I worry about criminals/future criminals taking the class.

Do you also worry about "criminals/future criminals" taking driving, math or chemistry classes? What about medical classes so they can secretly patch each other up after major shootouts without having to go to a hospital? How about accounting classes so they can learn how to launder their money? How about firefighting classes so they can learn how to commit arson?

Criminal incompetence is a blessing, one I would regret reducing.

So you agree to stop teaching chemistry, first aid, firefighting and other classes to avoid teaching "future criminals" how to be more efficient criminals?

 

[Divine Wind]

And you lie on both counts. The ACLU is not right wing by any stretch of the imagination...and they led the effort against taking 2nd Amendment Rights away from people before they had access to due process.....and dittos on the No Fly/No Buy list......you can't take away a fundamental Right from someone because a nameless bureaucrat puts them on a list...a list that you can't find out why you were put on it, you have almost no ability to contest, and it is almost impossible to get off of....

You don't tell the truth about either situation.....

Those who are in this country illegally have no Right to bear arms.....they need to get legal before they do...

So the ACLU is wrong on this one. Nobody is perfect. The difference is that I can still support the ACLU even knowing they are sometimes wrong. The good they do outweighs their mistakes. If it comes to the point where they their missteps outweigh the good they do, I won't support them. There is no reason to let crazies buy guns.

and that isn't the issue with this crappy legislation it was the fact that people who aren't actually mentally ill would have their right to own a firearm taken away at the whim of some fucking bureaucrat

Are you saying there is not a procedure to get their guns back if they aren't koo koo for coco puffs?

no I'm saying their right should not be taken away in the first place if they were not mentally ill

what if we had a law that took children away from parents because they couldn't balance a checkbook?

as long a there was a procedure to get the kids back it would be OK with you?

If the parent was so incapacitated till they had to have someone else legally assigned to look after their day to day affairs, then yes. The children should be removed until there was reason shown that the parents were capable of caring for the children.

So you are changing your stance to "incapacitated" for removing self-defense rights or simply dancing around the question about parent and balancing a checkbook?

 

[BULLDOG]

So the ACLU is wrong on this one. Nobody is perfect. The difference is that I can still support the ACLU even knowing they are sometimes wrong. The good they do outweighs their mistakes. If it comes to the point where they their missteps outweigh the good they do, I won't support them. There is no reason to let crazies buy guns.

and that isn't the issue with this crappy legislation it was the fact that people who aren't actually mentally ill would have their right to own a firearm taken away at the whim of some fucking bureaucrat

Are you saying there is not a procedure to get their guns back if they aren't koo koo for coco puffs?

no I'm saying their right should not be taken away in the first place if they were not mentally ill

what if we had a law that took children away from parents because they couldn't balance a checkbook?

as long a there was a procedure to get the kids back it would be OK with you?

If the parent was so incapacitated till they had to have someone else legally assigned to look after their day to day affairs, then yes. The children should be removed until there was reason shown that the parents were capable of caring for the children.

So you are changing your stance to "incapacitated" for removing self-defense rights or simply dancing around the question about parent and balancing a checkbook?

I'm not sure why you would want to change the subject because balancing a checkbook is not a good comparison to what was being discussed. I'm sure lots of people have problems balancing their checkbook, and they hire accountants and such to do that for them. Hiring an accountant is not the same as having a court ordered guardian responsible for the person's affairs, financial and otherwise. If a parent is not capable of attending their own affairs, (which would include the decision to hire an accountant) he is not capable of caring for children.