Should God's Law be the Law of the Land?

[JakeStarkey]

Not at all. You made an original claim that their power was great.

I made a counter claim.

Now pony up your evidence, _Te, or forfeit your points as you were taught in college logic.

You did have a logic or philosophy class in college?

You make this so easy for your opponents to toy with you.

In which case you should have no problem providing the link and the actual posted statement that you are whining about.

It's above, you go look for it, because I don't let you troll, troll.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Not at all. You made an original claim that their power was great.

I made a counter claim.

Now pony up your evidence, _Te, or forfeit your points as you were taught in college logic.

You did have a logic or philosophy class in college?

You make this so easy for your opponents to toy with you.

In which case you should have no problem providing the link and the actual posted statement that you are whining about.

It's above, you go look for it, because I don't let you troll, troll.

Strike 3!

 

[JakeStarkey]

And here is _Te Troll screaming his "victory" ~ go look up your assertion, troll

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpccpglnNf0]Goats Yelling Like Humans - Super Cut Compilation - YouTube[/ame]

 

[hortysir]

How does North Dakota violate anybody's rights when the majority of the people vote for a particular policy that applies to all citizens equally and equitably and makes no distinctions between any group or demographic?

How are North Dakota people's rights not violated just because somebody somewhere else doesn't like a policy and demands that North Dakota not have it?

A majority, but not all.

No citizen can be compelled to forfeit his right to privacy solely as a consequence of his state of residence; one’s state of residence does not determine whether one will, or will not, have his civil liberties, even if he is a minority of one.

Our civil rights are inalienable, they can be taken by no man, no government, and by no majority.

The people of North Dakota are citizens of the United States, they are citizens of a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy; the people of North Dakota – all the people of North Dakota – are subject only to the rule of law, not men, as men are incapable of ruling justly – the evidence of that can indeed be found in North Dakota.

That's how.

I must have missed something.

What law, in North Dakota, is depriving people of *which* inalienable right?

 

[hortysir]

Those are all terrible examples.

The better examples are gay rights issues where there is a clear subversion of an entire group of people thanks to christian (among other religions) views.

Another example where they have tried, and thus far failed, to impose themselves on our rights is prayer in schools, which they still fight for, or christian monuments and symbols erected by religious groups on public property.

If they want a monument to their beliefs, just buy your own fucking property. Like this guy did...

Rainbow house fights Westboro Baptist with love

Like my other friend up there, you seem to have trouble distinguishing between infringement of freedom of religion, God's role in the affairs of humankind, and a whole bunch of other issues that essentially have nothing at all to do with religion. And that would include abortion and gay rights and anything else that is a controversial social issue but is not based on a particular religious faith. I simply am not going to go along with derailing this thresd into one of those other topics that have plenty of threads of their own.

Let's continue to focus on God's role and our ability to pay attention to that please.

Gods roll? How do discuss God's roll if you can't even discuss what you think his roll is?

Gods law obviously cannot be the law of the land as people don't even agree with the question of what gods law is...

Just a guess, but I'm willing to bet that it's probably unleavened

 

[Foxfyre]

Gods roll? How do discuss God's roll if you can't even discuss what you think his roll is?

Gods law obviously cannot be the law of the land as people don't even agree with the question of what gods law is...

I think any God that could be defined, explained, ordered, or commanded to be in any role by the people, wouldn't be much of a God. I don't think we mere mortals have any say in what God chooses to do or what the consequences of disobeying His law might be. It is a difficult thing for an unbeliever to understand, but God is God. We can ask. We can do our best to conform to His will. But we don't get to tell Him what to do.

And it is that concept that, in my belief, makes His law the law of the land whether or not we understand it, obey it, or even care anything about it.

This is exactly why it is a complete and utter waste of time trying to have a reasonable and logical discussion with believers. You demand that this thread be about your deity's "role" then when you are called upon to define his role you do a 180 and claim that his role is undefinable. In essence this is just a game of Whackjob-a-Mole. Thank you for disqualifying yourself from any further meaningful participation on this topic.

He isn't my deity. He is God. All of us are subject to whatever role He chooses and/or chooses for us. It is on an omnipresent scale but for purposes of comparison, think about the new hire in the janitorial department. He understands that so-and-so is the CEO and the head honcho of the company and that is his role. But that new janitor could not begin to write a job description for that CEO or even comment on what his day to day activities should be. And God is ever so much more and so much bigger than that CEO.

The thread topic is whether God's law should be the law of the land. I have strayed from that now and then but my intent was to refocus on it. Sorry that you feel it was a waste of time.

But at least I knew the difference between roll and role.

 

[Votto]

Many who believe in the absolute truth of the Christian faith seem to believe that God's Laws should be the law or basis of the law in the US.

What think you?

God's law should rule our hearts, but God forbid some idiot be put over us to tell us what God says we should do.

If you read 1 Samuel 9, you will see the nation of Israel that God himself set up. They only had judges to settle disputes among the people. Then the people demanded a king. God warned them of the abuses that would incur, but they insisted. God then gave them what they wanted.

 

[Foxfyre]

Many who believe in the absolute truth of the Christian faith seem to believe that God's Laws should be the law or basis of the law in the US.

What think you?

God's law should rule our hearts, but God forbid some idiot be put over us to tell us what God says we should do.

If you read 1 Samuel 9, you will see the nation of Israel that God himself set up. They only had judges to settle disputes among the people. Then the people demanded a king. God warned them of the abuses that would incur, but they insisted. God then gave them what they wanted.

Yup. But you saw variations of the same phrase repeated over and over: "There was no king in Israel but everyone did what was right in his own eyes." And finally the people so much wanted to be ruled instead of having the responsibility of taking care of themselves, they finally got what they wanted. And times were really good for them for awhile. But only for awhile until they were again under bondage of cruel dictators.

And as the old saying goes, those who fail to study history are condemned to repeat it. As the Founders knew, when God is allowed to call the shots, everything goes so much better than when some person or people short circuit that process. But these days, a lot of Americans sure do seem to be clamoring for that king.

 

[Votto]

Many who believe in the absolute truth of the Christian faith seem to believe that God's Laws should be the law or basis of the law in the US.

What think you?

God's law should rule our hearts, but God forbid some idiot be put over us to tell us what God says we should do.

If you read 1 Samuel 9, you will see the nation of Israel that God himself set up. They only had judges to settle disputes among the people. Then the people demanded a king. God warned them of the abuses that would incur, but they insisted. God then gave them what they wanted.

Yup. But you saw variations of the same phrase repeated over and over: "There was no king in Israel but everyone did what was right in his own eyes." And finally the people so much wanted to be ruled instead of having the responsibility of taking care of themselves, they finally got what they wanted. And times were really good for them for awhile. But only for awhile until they were again under bondage of cruel dictators.

And as the old saying goes, those who fail to study history are condemned to repeat it. As the Founders knew, when God is allowed to call the shots, everything goes so much better than when some person or people short circuit that process. But these days, a lot of Americans sure do seem to be clamoring for that king.

Clamoring for a king?

They have one.

 

[Foxfyre]

God's law should rule our hearts, but God forbid some idiot be put over us to tell us what God says we should do.

If you read 1 Samuel 9, you will see the nation of Israel that God himself set up. They only had judges to settle disputes among the people. Then the people demanded a king. God warned them of the abuses that would incur, but they insisted. God then gave them what they wanted.

Yup. But you saw variations of the same phrase repeated over and over: "There was no king in Israel but everyone did what was right in his own eyes." And finally the people so much wanted to be ruled instead of having the responsibility of taking care of themselves, they finally got what they wanted. And times were really good for them for awhile. But only for awhile until they were again under bondage of cruel dictators.

And as the old saying goes, those who fail to study history are condemned to repeat it. As the Founders knew, when God is allowed to call the shots, everything goes so much better than when some person or people short circuit that process. But these days, a lot of Americans sure do seem to be clamoring for that king.

Clamoring for a king?

They have one.

View attachment 25135

Not quite yet. Just lots of folks who want one and a wannabe king who really really wants that role.

 

[JakeStarkey]

God's law should rule our hearts, but God forbid some idiot be put over us to tell us what God says we should do.

If you read 1 Samuel 9, you will see the nation of Israel that God himself set up. They only had judges to settle disputes among the people. Then the people demanded a king. God warned them of the abuses that would incur, but they insisted. God then gave them what they wanted.

Yup. But you saw variations of the same phrase repeated over and over: "There was no king in Israel but everyone did what was right in his own eyes." And finally the people so much wanted to be ruled instead of having the responsibility of taking care of themselves, they finally got what they wanted. And times were really good for them for awhile. But only for awhile until they were again under bondage of cruel dictators.

And as the old saying goes, those who fail to study history are condemned to repeat it. As the Founders knew, when God is allowed to call the shots, everything goes so much better than when some person or people short circuit that process. But these days, a lot of Americans sure do seem to be clamoring for that king.

Clamoring for a king?

They have one.

View attachment 25135

Go stare at the Mussolini picture in your shrine in the basement to him.

 

[Underhill]

Like my other friend up there, you seem to have trouble distinguishing between infringement of freedom of religion, God's role in the affairs of humankind, and a whole bunch of other issues that essentially have nothing at all to do with religion. And that would include abortion and gay rights and anything else that is a controversial social issue but is not based on a particular religious faith. I simply am not going to go along with derailing this thresd into one of those other topics that have plenty of threads of their own.

Let's continue to focus on God's role and our ability to pay attention to that please.

Gods roll? How do discuss God's roll if you can't even discuss what you think his roll is?

Gods law obviously cannot be the law of the land as people don't even agree with the question of what gods law is...

Just a guess, but I'm willing to bet that it's probably unleavened

Bah!

 

[Derideo_Te]

I think any God that could be defined, explained, ordered, or commanded to be in any role by the people, wouldn't be much of a God. I don't think we mere mortals have any say in what God chooses to do or what the consequences of disobeying His law might be. It is a difficult thing for an unbeliever to understand, but God is God. We can ask. We can do our best to conform to His will. But we don't get to tell Him what to do.

And it is that concept that, in my belief, makes His law the law of the land whether or not we understand it, obey it, or even care anything about it.

This is exactly why it is a complete and utter waste of time trying to have a reasonable and logical discussion with believers. You demand that this thread be about your deity's "role" then when you are called upon to define his role you do a 180 and claim that his role is undefinable. In essence this is just a game of Whackjob-a-Mole. Thank you for disqualifying yourself from any further meaningful participation on this topic.

He isn't my deity. He is God.

Do you know the meaning of the term deity?

All of us are subject to whatever role He chooses and/or chooses for us. It is on an omnipresent scale but for purposes of comparison, think about the new hire in the janitorial department. He understands that so-and-so is the CEO and the head honcho of the company and that is his role. But that new janitor could not begin to write a job description for that CEO or even comment on what his day to day activities should be. And God is ever so much more and so much bigger than that CEO.

False analogy but since you raise the topic of omnipresence you have opened the door to the issue of omnipotence. Do you believe that your deity is omnipotent? Yes or no?

The thread topic is whether God's law should be the law of the land. I have strayed from that now and then but my intent was to refocus on it. Sorry that you feel it was a waste of time.

But at least I knew the difference between roll and role.

What was a waste of time was you demanding that the defined role was playing a part in your life and then claiming that it is undefinable.


America was founded as a secular nation. There is nothing to be gained by regressing into a theocracy.

 

[Foxfyre]

This is exactly why it is a complete and utter waste of time trying to have a reasonable and logical discussion with believers. You demand that this thread be about your deity's "role" then when you are called upon to define his role you do a 180 and claim that his role is undefinable. In essence this is just a game of Whackjob-a-Mole. Thank you for disqualifying yourself from any further meaningful participation on this topic.

He isn't my deity. He is God.

Do you know the meaning of the term deity?

All of us are subject to whatever role He chooses and/or chooses for us. It is on an omnipresent scale but for purposes of comparison, think about the new hire in the janitorial department. He understands that so-and-so is the CEO and the head honcho of the company and that is his role. But that new janitor could not begin to write a job description for that CEO or even comment on what his day to day activities should be. And God is ever so much more and so much bigger than that CEO.

False analogy but since you raise the topic of omnipresence you have opened the door to the issue of omnipotence. Do you believe that your deity is omnipotent? Yes or no?

The thread topic is whether God's law should be the law of the land. I have strayed from that now and then but my intent was to refocus on it. Sorry that you feel it was a waste of time.

But at least I knew the difference between roll and role.

What was a waste of time was you demanding that the defined role was playing a part in your life and then claiming that it is undefinable.


America was founded as a secular nation. There is nothing to be gained by regressing into a theocracy.

So you see the analogy of the janitor and CEO as a false analogy? How is it a false analogy? How good would you be at writing a job description for say, Secretary of State, off the top of your head. Could you outline a productive routine for him or her without doing a tremendous amount of research? Have you never hired in at beginniner's level for a large organization and knew who the CEO or Executive Director was without knowing his role in the business, what he/she had to know, or what his/her daily routine was?

And if you accept all that as the way things are, why is it so dificult to believe God is important and has a role in the universe without being able to explicitly define that role? At the same time we can quite confidently say that the CEO has a role in the company and considerable power over my destiny in the company.

And in the same way, I can say that God has a role in the universe He created and considerable power over what happens in it. That is his role without us being able to be able to identify exactly what He does or how He does it.

I do believe, via my own experience, that God is omnipresent. I don't know whether he is omnipotent. I know the ancients believed that he is and in my heart I trust him to be able to do anything so I suppose at some level I FEEL that he is omnipotent.

And I don't see how any of any of that has anything to do with America or anyplace else being a theocracy.

 

[Derideo_Te]

He isn't my deity. He is God.

Do you know the meaning of the term deity?



False analogy but since you raise the topic of omnipresence you have opened the door to the issue of omnipotence. Do you believe that your deity is omnipotent? Yes or no?

The thread topic is whether God's law should be the law of the land. I have strayed from that now and then but my intent was to refocus on it. Sorry that you feel it was a waste of time.

But at least I knew the difference between roll and role.

What was a waste of time was you demanding that the defined role was playing a part in your life and then claiming that it is undefinable.


America was founded as a secular nation. There is nothing to be gained by regressing into a theocracy.

So you see the analogy of the janitor and CEO as a false analogy? How is it a false analogy? How good would you be at writing a job description for say, Secretary of State, off the top of your head. Could you outline a productive routine for him or her without doing a tremendous amount of research? Have you never hired in at beginniner's level for a large organization and knew who the CEO or Executive Director was without knowing his role in the business, what he/she had to know, or what his/her daily routine was?

And if you accept all that as the way things are, why is it so dificult to believe God is important and has a role in the universe without being able to explicitly define that role? At the same time we can quite confidently say that the CEO has a role in the company and considerable power over my destiny in the company.

And in the same way, I can say that God has a role in the universe He created and considerable power over what happens in it. That is his role without us being able to be able to identify exactly what He does or how He does it.

I do believe, via my own experience, that God is omnipresent. I don't know whether he is omnipotent. I know the ancients believed that he is and in my heart I trust him to be able to do anything so I suppose at some level I FEEL that he is omnipotent.

And I don't see how any of any of that has anything to do with America or anyplace else being a theocracy.

Here is why it is a false analogy. You are assigning every disaster, disease, pestilence, famine, mass murder, rape, incest, etc, etc to your God. This "imperfect" world is entirely his fault. Everything that is wrong is the responsibility of your God. Because to fail to assign any of those things to him means that you are failing to hold him fully accountable for his "creation" with all of it's billions and billions of lethal flaws.

Now are you honest enough to admit that your God was responsible for the murder of those 20 innocent children in Newtown CT? Yes or no?

My bet is that you are going to try and squirm out if it by using the feeble "free will" excuse. That doesn't wash if you are going to try and use that "CEO job description" tactic because the whole point about a CEO is that you are responsible for everything that happens in your corporation both good and bad. You don't need to be able to write the job description to know how that works. So if your God is going to get 100% of the credit then he also gets 100% of the blame for everything that is wrong.

Your next attempt will be to try and blame it on "evil" instead. There again you strike out because your God created evil in the first place and therefore is entirely responsible for that too. There is nothing stopping your God from wiping evil out of existence just by thinking about doing it but that never happens, does it? Your God must really love evil because he allows it to run rampant all over the entire world.

Can you feel that evil part of your God in your heart too?

 

[koshergrl]

God allows evil. Probably as a method of tempering us.

Your tiny brain will never be able to wrap around it. Do you maintain that everything you don't understand must not exist?

 

[Derideo_Te]

God allows evil. Probably as a method of tempering us.

Your tiny brain will never be able to wrap around it. Do you maintain that everything you don't understand must not exist?

Kindly refrain from accusing others of your own failings.

 

[Desperado]

Many who believe in the absolute truth of the Christian faith seem to believe that God's Laws should be the law or basis of the law in the US.

What think you?

I see nothing wrong with the 10 Commandments.

Should there then be a law that there is a jealous God and that there shall be no other god before Him?

Should there be a law against worshipping false idols?

Should there be a law requiring children to honor their parents?

Should there be a law against coveting one's neighbors' spouses or possessions? Wouldn't we need a thought police for such a law?

The Ten Commandments leave out "Thou shalt not rape." So would we leave that out?

I would hate to see a law that would fine you for failure to keep the Lord's day holy

 

[koshergrl]

So who is asking for these laws?

I wasn't aware that anyone was.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Jesus already condensed the 10 for us"

Love your Lord thy God with all your heart
and
Love your neighbor as yourself

That covers 'em all

All except one. Live and let live. (Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do.)

Live and Let Live is the same as treating others as you would like to be treated.
That means it's the same as loving your neighbor as yourself

Anyone who follows the first part of "Love your Lord thy God with all your heart" is going to be preying on their neighbors because that is what they are ordered to do by the bible in the name of "loving your neighbor as yourself".

So Live and Let Live is not the same thing as you quoted.