Should Israel have been created?

[RoccoR]

loinboy, et al,

I think there is some confusion here.

loinboy; et al,

I do remember this. And I believe I responded in Post #223

...

This is not an image of text from the UN Charter, but comes from the "Easy Guide to International Humanitarian Law." [The right to self-determination - IHL the Diakonia web-site is a Swedish NGO for international development cooperation, not a sanction UN site or any subdivision thereto.]

This is the text from the Charter. The Charter uses the phrase "self-determination" twice in the entire Charter (all 19 Chapters).

CHAPTER I: PURPOSES AND PRINCIPLES Article 1

The Purposes of the United Nations are:

• To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
• To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
• To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and
• To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.

----------- AND ------------​

SOURCE: Charter of the United Nations: Chapter I: Purposes and Principles

(COMMENT)

The Swedish NGO IHL (Diakonia) does have lawyers on staff. The express there opinions. But don't mistake them for citing an official position. They weave the law just like a carpet to fit their agenda.

It is very difficult to discuss this topic in a balanced and unbiased way. Even I, as hard as I may try to avoid it, show some signs of bias and pre-registered agenda.

Ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.

(OPEN APOLOGY)

I personally apologize if my commentary, in any way, appeared to be an attack on your character or integrity, and submit that such an interpretation on your character or integrity would be fallacious.

My intent was to make a distinction between the sources I cited and the source you cited; including the fact that the narrative has a comparative difference. One being a direct quotation from an official source, where the other cites an official source but is an interpretative argument.

Again, there was no personal attack on your reputation intended; and I appeal to the discussion group not to interpret it as such.

Very Sincerely,
R

 

[toastman]

Tinnie, why didn't the Palestinians create a state before the Jews showed up ?

 

[Wiseacre]

Please guys - stick to the topic and avoid the insults that have no content.

 

[irosie91]

Please guys - stick to the topic and avoid the insults that have no content.

~~~ party-pooper~~~~

 

[P F Tinmore]

Tinnie, why didn't the Palestinians create a state before the Jews showed up ?

The mandate was supposed to help them do that.

But Britain fucked up big time then cut and run.

 

[toastman]

Tinnie, why didn't the Palestinians create a state before the Jews showed up ?

The mandate was supposed to help them do that.

But Britain fucked up big time then cut and run.

Then blame Britain .

Why wasnt there a Palestinian state created when Jordan controlled the West Bank and Egypt controlled the shithole terrorist headquarters we call Gaza

 

[P F Tinmore]

Tinnie, why didn't the Palestinians create a state before the Jews showed up ?

The mandate was supposed to help them do that.

But Britain fucked up big time then cut and run.

Then blame Britain .

Why wasnt there a Palestinian state created when Jordan controlled the West Bank and Egypt controlled the shithole terrorist headquarters we call Gaza

There was.

 

[Hossfly]

The mandate was supposed to help them do that.

But Britain fucked up big time then cut and run.

Then blame Britain .

Why wasnt there a Palestinian state created when Jordan controlled the West Bank and Egypt controlled the shithole terrorist headquarters we call Gaza

There was.

There was? Where did it go?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Then blame Britain .

Why wasnt there a Palestinian state created when Jordan controlled the West Bank and Egypt controlled the shithole terrorist headquarters we call Gaza

There was.

There was? Where did it go?

It is under foreign, military occupation.

 

[Hossfly]

There was.

There was? Where did it go?

It is under foreign, military occupation.

Well, Tinnie, I know you don't believe Churchill and other British officials who were stationed in the area at the time who said that the Arabs came in droves from the poor surrounding countries. I happen to believe what they said since I see what is happening here with many poor crossing our Southern border for jobs and there are plenty of poor Muslims who have moved to Europe, the U.S. and Canada for jobs. Now if the Arabs came in droves, can I consider them foreigners to the area. Maybe your own older relatives came from Egypt and kept telling you that the family lived in Israel for hundreds and hundreds of years. Now if Tinnie thinks that there was a country called Palestine when Egypt and Jordan controlled the territories, I know that Tinnie will be happy to tell us who was the president or prime minister of this country at the time and what was their currency and some of the laws on their books.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There was? Where did it go?

It is under foreign, military occupation.

Well, Tinnie, I know you don't believe Churchill and other British officials who were stationed in the area at the time who said that the Arabs came in droves from the poor surrounding countries. I happen to believe what they said since I see what is happening here with many poor crossing our Southern border for jobs and there are plenty of poor Muslims who have moved to Europe, the U.S. and Canada for jobs. Now if the Arabs came in droves, can I consider them foreigners to the area. Maybe your own older relatives came from Egypt and kept telling you that the family lived in Israel for hundreds and hundreds of years. Now if Tinnie thinks that there was a country called Palestine when Egypt and Jordan controlled the territories, I know that Tinnie will be happy to tell us who was the president or prime minister of this country at the time and what was their currency and some of the laws on their books.

What is the relevance to all of that?

Israel says that it cannot occupy territory that is not a state.

What state was it when it was occupied by Jordan and Egypt?

 

[toastman]

There was.

There was? Where did it go?

It is under foreign, military occupation.

You're telling me there was a Palestinian state between when Egypt controlled Gaza and Jordan controlled the West Bank before 1967 ?

 

[toastman]

It is under foreign, military occupation.

Well, Tinnie, I know you don't believe Churchill and other British officials who were stationed in the area at the time who said that the Arabs came in droves from the poor surrounding countries. I happen to believe what they said since I see what is happening here with many poor crossing our Southern border for jobs and there are plenty of poor Muslims who have moved to Europe, the U.S. and Canada for jobs. Now if the Arabs came in droves, can I consider them foreigners to the area. Maybe your own older relatives came from Egypt and kept telling you that the family lived in Israel for hundreds and hundreds of years. Now if Tinnie thinks that there was a country called Palestine when Egypt and Jordan controlled the territories, I know that Tinnie will be happy to tell us who was the president or prime minister of this country at the time and what was their currency and some of the laws on their books.

What is the relevance to all of that?

Israel says that it cannot occupy territory that is not a state.

What state was it when it was occupied by Jordan and Egypt?

The relevance to all of that is that you keep claiming that all the inhabitants of the British Mandate of Palestine have been living there for generations when in fact they were mainly refugees frrom Syria Jordan and Lebanon. How bout them apples ?

 

[Hossfly]

It is under foreign, military occupation.

Well, Tinnie, I know you don't believe Churchill and other British officials who were stationed in the area at the time who said that the Arabs came in droves from the poor surrounding countries. I happen to believe what they said since I see what is happening here with many poor crossing our Southern border for jobs and there are plenty of poor Muslims who have moved to Europe, the U.S. and Canada for jobs. Now if the Arabs came in droves, can I consider them foreigners to the area. Maybe your own older relatives came from Egypt and kept telling you that the family lived in Israel for hundreds and hundreds of years. Now if Tinnie thinks that there was a country called Palestine when Egypt and Jordan controlled the territories, I know that Tinnie will be happy to tell us who was the president or prime minister of this country at the time and what was their currency and some of the laws on their books.

What is the relevance to all of that?

Israel says that it cannot occupy territory that is not a state.

What state was it when it was occupied by Jordan and Egypt?

How long and when has it ever been a sovereign state with a capital, government, ambassadors, etc?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Well, Tinnie, I know you don't believe Churchill and other British officials who were stationed in the area at the time who said that the Arabs came in droves from the poor surrounding countries. I happen to believe what they said since I see what is happening here with many poor crossing our Southern border for jobs and there are plenty of poor Muslims who have moved to Europe, the U.S. and Canada for jobs. Now if the Arabs came in droves, can I consider them foreigners to the area. Maybe your own older relatives came from Egypt and kept telling you that the family lived in Israel for hundreds and hundreds of years. Now if Tinnie thinks that there was a country called Palestine when Egypt and Jordan controlled the territories, I know that Tinnie will be happy to tell us who was the president or prime minister of this country at the time and what was their currency and some of the laws on their books.

What is the relevance to all of that?

Israel says that it cannot occupy territory that is not a state.

What state was it when it was occupied by Jordan and Egypt?

The relevance to all of that is that you keep claiming that all the inhabitants of the British Mandate of Palestine have been living there for generations when in fact they were mainly refugees frrom Syria Jordan and Lebanon. How bout them apples ?

Do you have some immigration stats to prove that claim?

Now how about that Jordan and Egypt occupation?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Well, Tinnie, I know you don't believe Churchill and other British officials who were stationed in the area at the time who said that the Arabs came in droves from the poor surrounding countries. I happen to believe what they said since I see what is happening here with many poor crossing our Southern border for jobs and there are plenty of poor Muslims who have moved to Europe, the U.S. and Canada for jobs. Now if the Arabs came in droves, can I consider them foreigners to the area. Maybe your own older relatives came from Egypt and kept telling you that the family lived in Israel for hundreds and hundreds of years. Now if Tinnie thinks that there was a country called Palestine when Egypt and Jordan controlled the territories, I know that Tinnie will be happy to tell us who was the president or prime minister of this country at the time and what was their currency and some of the laws on their books.

What is the relevance to all of that?

Israel says that it cannot occupy territory that is not a state.

What state was it when it was occupied by Jordan and Egypt?

How long and when has it ever been a sovereign state with a capital, government, ambassadors, etc?

Not necessary.

 

[toastman]

What is the relevance to all of that?

Israel says that it cannot occupy territory that is not a state.

What state was it when it was occupied by Jordan and Egypt?

How long and when has it ever been a sovereign state with a capital, government, ambassadors, etc?

Not necessary.

Tinnie lied again

 

[P F Tinmore]

How long and when has it ever been a sovereign state with a capital, government, ambassadors, etc?

Not necessary.

Tinnie lied again

An independent state is the product of self determination not a prerequisite.

 

[Hossfly]

Not necessary.

Tinnie lied again

An independent state is the product of self determination not a prerequisite.

Israel is listed between Ireland and Italy in the list. I can't seem to locate Palestine. Was it an omission?


Capitals of Every Country - Country Capital Cities

 

[P F Tinmore]

Tinnie lied again

An independent state is the product of self determination not a prerequisite.

Israel is listed between Ireland and Italy in the list. I can't seem to locate Palestine. Was it an omission?


Capitals of Every Country - Country Capital Cities

Still ducking that Jordan and Egypt occupation thing, I see.