Should Jerusalem be made an international city?

[Book of Jeremiah]

Considering that three major religions claim holy sites there?

No. Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel. It belongs to Israel and should be fully under the control of the Israeli government. Not the UN and it's international-whatevers........

* Israel is over 4000 yrs old. The Jews were there first. There was no such thing as Christianity or Islam when Jerusalem was established. That settles it. It belongs to the Jews. Oh and I'd like to thank them for being such gracious hosts inviting us to visit their land, etc. But I have no desire to STEAL it from them in the name of my faith.

-Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Jerusalem is the undivided City Of David. No question about it.

Now and Forever.....

 

[pbel]

Oh, dearie-me...

Even if American support for Israel was the primary cause for the attacks (9-11, etc.) - and it was not...

We will not allow foreign scum to dictate to us whom we may choose as friends and allies and whom we may not...

Oh, vile, dishonorable surrender...

If for no other reason than to reinforce our autonomy and unconquerable spirit in this context, I vote that we continue to support Israel to the maximum extent practicable...

"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."

The backbone has not yet been bred out of America.

Most (albeit not all) of the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys live on another continent.

Oh Bullshit...America should not looking for friendship, but for our strategic interests...

This saying by a Jesuit priest says it all to paraphrase: "Everybody who says Israel is our only friend in the Middle East, I remember a time before Israel when we had No Enemies in the Middle East."

The difference: AIPAC friendly Political Action Committees who get our store bought Politicians to support Israel or face a well funded opponent at re-election...Extortion Par Excellent!

are you going to answer my questions(s) from post 12?


http://www.usmessageboard.com/7381440-post12.html

Yes internationalize all of Jerusalem, that's what the UN suggested in 1948...

 

[numan]

But I have an even better plan for solving the problems of the Middle East !!

Now, now --- don't everyone start offering me the Nobel Prize all at once; 'twarn't nuthin' !

My program for solving the problems of the Mideast is, as usual, blindingly simple, clear and effective. The United States should, in that spirit of true generosity which it incessantly praises itself for possessing in great abundance, give the southern half of Florida to the state of Israel as New Israel, in exchange for removing itself from the Middle East!

Surely, in common decency, considering the great evil which the US has inflicted on the Middle East for more than half-a-century, it is the least it can do to repair the damage it has caused. Jews obviously like Florida -- there are so many there already -- therefore the transition should be easy. After being cooped-up in that dangerous, god-forsaken, postage-stamp-sized desert where they are now, New Israel should make them happy as clams. They will come to see New Israel as the TRUE Land of Milk and Honey which was foretold in their scriptures.

Perhaps the New Temple can be built at Disneyland, where, every day, hundreds of cattle, sheep and goats can be slaughtered and burned to delight the Nostrils of the Lord and the hearts of the pious!

It will be a win-win situation for everybody. The New Israelites will have a safe, clean, prosperous land to develop. They will finally be able to earn their own keep. The United States will no longer need to spend countless billions of dollars of its treasure in the vain attempt to prop up a doomed country in a hostile region. The Arabs will be over-joyed to take possession of the desert wasteland they covet so much. This sense of victory will give a much-needed boost to their sense of self-confidence after having defeated themselves in so many wars. I am sure that in exchange for this settlement of outstanding grievances they would gladly allow those few Jewish religious conservatives who did not want to emigrate to the fleshpots of New Israel to end their days in contentment, happily and peacefully beating their heads against the Wailing Wall.

Also, after a few years, when tempers have had time to cool down, the Arabs will probably be begging New Israelite technicians and scientists to return to the Middle East, in order to help them develop their economies and educational institutions. [That was the way Zionism was originally supposed to work -- remember?]

It is true that there will be a few losers in the otherwise astounding perfection of this scheme. There will be a few fundamentalist Christians who will be deeply saddened that, due to the absence of a Jewish government in Jerusalem, the End of the World will have to be postponed. I would console them with the reflection that it is the Will of the Almighty that life be a vale of tears for the Elect of God.

Lastly---and this is the clincher---the consideration which will make the American people, nay, the people of the entire world, embrace this proposal with fervor: once this brilliant plan is implemented something finally will be done about global warming! The citizens of New Israel will move heaven and earth to prevent so much valuable real estate from being swallowed up by rising sea-levels!

I am in awe of the wondrous radiance of my beautiful mind!
I am a true American!

You have been watching too much TV.

I don't watch TV.

That is why, even though I am American, I still retain some fragments of my mentality.
.

 

[toastman]

Invasion ?? The battle for Jerusalem was part of the 1947-1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine (which the Arabs started by attacking Jewish communities). During this war, Israel manged to gain control of Jerusalem, even though they were outnumbered and outgunned. Israel gained territory and the Palestinians lost territory.

So, since Israel indisputably won the war, it is them who dictate the terms of any peace agreement.

Israel started the 67 war Pre-emptively...That's why No one on Planet Earth recognizes Israeli Annexations including the USA which has its Embassy in Tel-Avi and not in Occupied Jerusalem.

Pbel, why don't you tell us what are the events that lead up to the pre-emptive strike. Please be detailed.

 

[Trajan]

Nope.

The Israelis won it back fair-and-square in 1967.

The Jews had it taken from them in 70 A.D. and waited a long time to get it back... some 1,900 years...

Time to share and play nice with others... let the Jews have it for a few centuries... it's their turn anyway.

And, given that they took it back by force-of-arms, as part of an overall defensive war, against rather alarming odds, after their enemies had massed troops to attack them simultaneously on all sides...

Vae victus.

Israel's pre-emptive strike was a land grab because she had more than all the Arab Armies soldiers on all fronts...Even PM Begin admitted thus.

Sure, she may have it for a while...but 400 million Arabs will eventually get it back by war or demographics...only a peace deal accepted by the UN, the Arabs and Israel can avert the inevitable.

humm, I have to ask for some verification of the bolded section please.


and as the the afore mentioned segment- a) of course they knew they would win (???), b) preemptive as in say closing the straits of Tiran? c) ever heard of the Egyptian war plan called "The Dawn"...and how that wound up?

Oh Bullshit...America should not looking for friendship, but for our strategic interests...

This saying by a Jesuit priest says it all to paraphrase: "Everybody who says Israel is our only friend in the Middle East, I remember a time before Israel when we had No Enemies in the Middle East."

The difference: AIPAC friendly Political Action Committees who get our store bought Politicians to support Israel or face a well funded opponent at re-election...Extortion Par Excellent!

are you going to answer my questions(s) from post 12?


http://www.usmessageboard.com/7381440-post12.html

Yes internationalize all of Jerusalem, that's what the UN suggested in 1948...

what the ?????

how is that an answer to my questions? I posted a link back to the post, #12, hello.....


here,above I added the original post by with my questions/comments, please try again........

 

[Trajan]

So, since Israel indisputably won the war, it is them who dictate the terms of any peace agreement.

Israel started the 67 war Pre-emptively...That's why No one on Planet Earth recognizes Israeli Annexations including the USA which has its Embassy in Tel-Avi and not in Occupied Jerusalem.

Pbel, why don't you tell us what are the events that lead up to the pre-emptive strike. Please be detailed.

I asked him already...still waiting..

 

[toastman]

I love how the pro - Palestinians think tiny little Israel wanted to start a war with 5 armies 20 her size of countries 200 times her size. Palestinian Mentality is great

 

[Trajan]

I love how the pro - Palestinians think tiny little Israel wanted to start a war with 5 armies 20 her size of countries 200 times her size. Palestinian Mentality is great

well according to pbel, the arabs were out numbered, I mean you have to be smoking some serious revisionist weed to buy that...we'll see what he says...

 

[Kondor3]

".The question is for me, why should heavily AIPAC influenced America be arming both sides, with a very heavy preference for Israel which brought us into the War on Terror and thousands of American deaths? It only increases our chance of receiving Terrorism like Boston?..."

Oh, dearie-me...

Even if American support for Israel was the primary cause for the attacks (9-11, etc.) - and it was not...

We will not allow foreign scum to dictate to us whom we may choose as friends and allies and whom we may not...

Oh, vile, dishonorable surrender...

If for no other reason than to reinforce our autonomy and unconquerable spirit in this context, I vote that we continue to support Israel to the maximum extent practicable...

"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."

The backbone has not yet been bred out of America.

Most (albeit not all) of the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys live on another continent.

Oh Bullshit...America should not looking for friendship, but for our strategic interests...

This saying by a Jesuit priest says it all to paraphrase: "Everybody who says Israel is our only friend in the Middle East, I remember a time before Israel when we had No Enemies in the Middle East."

The difference: AIPAC friendly Political Action Committees who get our store bought Politicians to support Israel or face a well funded opponent at re-election...Extortion Par Excellent!

That's all very nice, I'm sure, but it's also irrelevant, and inoperative in the Real World.

WE say who we befriend, and we do NOT concede that right-of-choice to ANYONE.

Get in our face about one of our friends and we'll hold onto that friend TWICE as hard.

Just to show that it is OUR choice and NOT the choice of al-Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Arab League, whatever.

Against all comers.

You know... like a nation that actually has balls.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

But I have an even better plan for solving the problems of the Middle East !!

Now, now --- don't everyone start offering me the Nobel Prize all at once; 'twarn't nuthin' !

My program for solving the problems of the Mideast is, as usual, blindingly simple, clear and effective. The United States should, in that spirit of true generosity which it incessantly praises itself for possessing in great abundance, give the southern half of Florida to the state of Israel as New Israel, in exchange for removing itself from the Middle East!

Surely, in common decency, considering the great evil which the US has inflicted on the Middle East for more than half-a-century, it is the least it can do to repair the damage it has caused. Jews obviously like Florida -- there are so many there already -- therefore the transition should be easy. After being cooped-up in that dangerous, god-forsaken, postage-stamp-sized desert where they are now, New Israel should make them happy as clams. They will come to see New Israel as the TRUE Land of Milk and Honey which was foretold in their scriptures.

Perhaps the New Temple can be built at Disneyland, where, every day, hundreds of cattle, sheep and goats can be slaughtered and burned to delight the Nostrils of the Lord and the hearts of the pious!

It will be a win-win situation for everybody. The New Israelites will have a safe, clean, prosperous land to develop. They will finally be able to earn their own keep. The United States will no longer need to spend countless billions of dollars of its treasure in the vain attempt to prop up a doomed country in a hostile region. The Arabs will be over-joyed to take possession of the desert wasteland they covet so much. This sense of victory will give a much-needed boost to their sense of self-confidence after having defeated themselves in so many wars. I am sure that in exchange for this settlement of outstanding grievances they would gladly allow those few Jewish religious conservatives who did not want to emigrate to the fleshpots of New Israel to end their days in contentment, happily and peacefully beating their heads against the Wailing Wall.

Also, after a few years, when tempers have had time to cool down, the Arabs will probably be begging New Israelite technicians and scientists to return to the Middle East, in order to help them develop their economies and educational institutions. [That was the way Zionism was originally supposed to work -- remember?]

It is true that there will be a few losers in the otherwise astounding perfection of this scheme. There will be a few fundamentalist Christians who will be deeply saddened that, due to the absence of a Jewish government in Jerusalem, the End of the World will have to be postponed. I would console them with the reflection that it is the Will of the Almighty that life be a vale of tears for the Elect of God.

Lastly---and this is the clincher---the consideration which will make the American people, nay, the people of the entire world, embrace this proposal with fervor: once this brilliant plan is implemented something finally will be done about global warming! The citizens of New Israel will move heaven and earth to prevent so much valuable real estate from being swallowed up by rising sea-levels!

I am in awe of the wondrous radiance of my beautiful mind!
I am a true American!

You have been watching too much TV.

I don't watch TV.

That is why, even though I am American, I still retain some fragments of my mentality.
.

Trust me, the fragment you retain is a lot smaller than you think it is.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Israel started the 67 war Pre-emptively..."

Perhaps the Egyptians and Syrians and Jordanians should not have massed hundreds of thousands of troops along all of Israel's borders without provocation in the weeks leading up to that preemptive strike...

"...That's why No one on Planet Earth recognizes Israeli Annexations including the USA which has its Embassy in Tel-Avi and not in Occupied Jerusalem."

Much of the rest of the world continues to hope (on paper, anyway) that Israel will give back the remainder of the land that it bled and died for in preventing an Arab massacre of Jews in 1967, but with the knowledge that much of the rest of the world winks at the situation after 46 years and has no practical expectation that the land will ever be returned.

After all, Israel gave back much of the land that it won in 1967 and 1973, and evacuated Gaza within the past decade - three different Land-for-Peace Deals that 'the rest of the world' encouraged them to try.

Well, they tried it, three times, and it didn't work.

Three strikes and you're out.

I don't blame the Israelis in the slightest for hanging onto the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem.

In their shoes, I'd do exactly the same thing, and tell the rest of the world to go fuck itself.

Much of the rest of the world respects that - and winks at it when the Arabs aren't looking.

And then there are a few - like us - who don't give a $hit if the Arabs are looking when we wink at it.

The Arabs brought this down on their own heads by massing troops along all of Israel's borders in preparation to attack Israel and annihilate it...

They lost...

Vae victus.

 

[toastman]

"...Israel started the 67 war Pre-emptively..."

Perhaps the Egyptians and Syrians and Jordanians should not have massed hundreds of thousands of troops along all of Israel's borders without provocation in the weeks leading up to that preemptive strike...

"...That's why No one on Planet Earth recognizes Israeli Annexations including the USA which has its Embassy in Tel-Avi and not in Occupied Jerusalem."

Much of the rest of the world continues to hope (on paper, anyway) that Israel will give back the remainder of the land that it bled and died for in preventing an Arab massacre of Jews in 1967, but with the knowledge that much of the rest of the world winks at the situation after 46 years and has no practical expectation that the land will ever be returned.

After all, Israel gave back much of the land that it won in 1967 and 1973, and evacuated Gaza within the past decade - three different Land-for-Peace Deals that 'the rest of the world' encouraged them to try. Well, they tried it, three times, and it didn't work.

I don't blame 'em in the slightest for hanging onto the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem.

In their shoes, I'd do exactly the same thing, and tell the rest of the world to go fuck itself.

Much of the rest of the world respects that - and winks at it when the Arabs aren't looking.

And then there are a few - like us - who don't give a $hit if the Arabs are looking when we wink at it.

You also forgot to mention that Israel offered the Golan Heights back to Syria for peace almost right after the 6 day war. But low and behold, they refused (folowing the Khartoum resolution) !

 

[Kondor3]

"...You also forgot to mention that Israel offered the Golan Heights back to Syria for peace almost right after the 6 day war. But low and behold, they refused (folowing the Khartoum resolution) !"

Hell, I'd forgotten about the Khartoum Resolution altogether, never mind the Arabs missing the boat (again) in negotiating the return of a piece of the lost lands.

I had to refresh my memory on the Khartoum Resolution...

"...It is famous for containing (in the third paragraph) what became known as the 'Three No's': 'no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it.'"

Khartoum Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

More Arab stupidity.

You can't make up $hit this stupid.

 

[toastman]

"...You also forgot to mention that Israel offered the Golan Heights back to Syria for peace almost right after the 6 day war. But low and behold, they refused (folowing the Khartoum resolution) !"

Hell, I'd forgotten about the Khartoum Resolution altogether, never mind the Arabs missing the boat (again) in negotiating the return of a piece of the lost lands.

I had to refresh my memory on the Khartoum Resolution...

"...It is famous for containing (in the third paragraph) what became known as the 'Three No's': 'no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it.'"

Khartoum Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

More Arab stupidity.

You can't make up $hit this stupid.

Yup. The intention of the Khartoum resolution was as clear as day ....

So now that we've presented Pbel with what the Israelis have offered for peace, maybe he can tell us what the Palestinians and Arab states have offered for peace ????

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Jewish Claim= After conquering territory built temples there.

Corrected that for you.

The Caananites appreciate your support.

 

[Trajan]

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Considering that three major religions claim holy sites there?

Should the inside of your skull be declared a disaster area?

1. Can you give me a list of other international cities?
2. What the fuck is an international city?
3. Where did you learn to count?

hes free versing a history book from god knows where, and becauseIdon'tknow cannot read...greatest thread, best evah!!!!!

Talk about being off your meds, Trojan.

We all know that Quantum Witless is incapable of anything other than being a troll, but you put together a cogent argument. Okay, rarely, but at least often enough to convince me that it's not a fluke.

So forget about your divine pronouncements and defend your decision. That is, if you're not afraid to.

 

[pbel]

Nope.

The Israelis won it back fair-and-square in 1967.

The Jews had it taken from them in 70 A.D. and waited a long time to get it back... some 1,900 years...

Time to share and play nice with others... let the Jews have it for a few centuries... it's their turn anyway.

And, given that they took it back by force-of-arms, as part of an overall defensive war, against rather alarming odds, after their enemies had massed troops to attack them simultaneously on all sides...

Vae victus.

Israel's pre-emptive strike was a land grab because she had more than all the Arab Armies soldiers on all fronts...Even PM Begin admitted thus.

Sure, she may have it for a while...but 400 million Arabs will eventually get it back by war or demographics...only a peace deal accepted by the UN, the Arabs and Israel can avert the inevitable.

humm, I have to ask for some verification of the bolded section please.


and as the the afore mentioned segment- a) of course they knew they would win (???), b) preemptive as in say closing the straits of Tiran? c) ever heard of the Egyptian war plan called "The Dawn"...and how that wound up?

six day war - Yahoo! Search Results

On the eve of the war, Egypt massed approximately 100,000 of its 160,000 troops in the Sinai, including all of its seven divisions (four infantry, two armored and one mechanized), four independent infantry brigades and four independent armored brigades. No fewer than a third of them were veterans of Egypt's intervention into the Yemen Civil War and another third were reservists. These forces had 950 tanks, 1,100 APCs and more than 1,000 artillery pieces.[78]


The Israeli army had a total strength, including reservists, of 264,000,


Controversies relating to the Six-Day War - Ask.com Encyclopedia

On the other hand, the Arab view was that it was an unjustified attack.[14] After the war, Israeli officials admitted that Israel wasn't expecting to be attacked when it initiated hostilities against Egypt.[15][16] Mordechai Bentov, an Israeli cabinet minister who attended the June 4th Cabinet meeting, called into question the idea that there was a "danger of extermination" saying that it was "invented of whole cloth and exaggerated after the fact to justify the annexation of new Arab territories."[17][18] Menachem Begin said that "The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. (...) We decided to attack him".[19][20] Israel received reports from the United States to the effect that Egyptian deployments were defensive and anticipatory of a possible Israeli attack,[21] and the US assessed that if anything, it was Israel that was pressing to begin hostilities.[18] Abba Eban, Israel's foreign minister during the war, later wrote in his autobiography that Nasser's assurances he wasn't planning to attack Israel were credible: "Nasser did not want war. He wanted victory without war." [22] Israeli military historian Martin van Creveld has written that while the exact origins of the war may never be known, Israel's forces were "spoiling for a fight and willing to go to considerable lengths to provoke one".[23] Israel's attack isn't seen as fulfilling the criteria of the Caroline test for anticipatory self-defence.[24]

 

[pbel]

Israel's pre-emptive strike was a land grab because she had more than all the Arab Armies soldiers on all fronts...Even PM Begin admitted thus.

Sure, she may have it for a while...but 400 million Arabs will eventually get it back by war or demographics...only a peace deal accepted by the UN, the Arabs and Israel can avert the inevitable.

humm, I have to ask for some verification of the bolded section please.


and as the the afore mentioned segment- a) of course they knew they would win (???), b) preemptive as in say closing the straits of Tiran? c) ever heard of the Egyptian war plan called "The Dawn"...and how that wound up?

are you going to answer my questions(s) from post 12?


http://www.usmessageboard.com/7381440-post12.html

Yes internationalize all of Jerusalem, that's what the UN suggested in 1948...

what the ?????

how is that an answer to my questions? I posted a link back to the post, #12, hello.....


here,above I added the original post by with my questions/comments, please try again........

six day war - Yahoo! Search Results

On the eve of the war, Egypt massed approximately 100,000 of its 160,000 troops in the Sinai, including all of its seven divisions (four infantry, two armored and one mechanized), four independent infantry brigades and four independent armored brigades. No fewer than a third of them were veterans of Egypt's intervention into the Yemen Civil War and another third were reservists. These forces had 950 tanks, 1,100 APCs and more than 1,000 artillery pieces.[78]


The Israeli army had a total strength, including reservists, of 264,000,


Controversies relating to the Six-Day War - Ask.com Encyclopedia

On the other hand, the Arab view was that it was an unjustified attack.[14] After the war, Israeli officials admitted that Israel wasn't expecting to be attacked when it initiated hostilities against Egypt.[15][16] Mordechai Bentov, an Israeli cabinet minister who attended the June 4th Cabinet meeting, called into question the idea that there was a "danger of extermination" saying that it was "invented of whole cloth and exaggerated after the fact to justify the annexation of new Arab territories."[17][18] Menachem Begin said that "The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. (...) We decided to attack him".[19][20] Israel received reports from the United States to the effect that Egyptian deployments were defensive and anticipatory of a possible Israeli attack,[21] and the US assessed that if anything, it was Israel that was pressing to begin hostilities.[18] Abba Eban, Israel's foreign minister during the war, later wrote in his autobiography that Nasser's assurances he wasn't planning to attack Israel were credible: "Nasser did not want war. He wanted victory without war." [22] Israeli military historian Martin van Creveld has written that while the exact origins of the war may never be known, Israel's forces were "spoiling for a fight and willing to go to considerable lengths to provoke one".[23] Israel's attack isn't seen as fulfilling the criteria of the Caroline test for anticipatory self-defence.[24]